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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Smooth Criminal

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The closest thing to a "fighting game" that the Vic Viper has made an appearance in was Zone of the Enders 2, a Playstation exclusive action/adventure mecha game made by Konami. The Vic Viper that shows up in the main game and versus mode is a transforming jetfighter, complete with missile barrages and rotating drone lasers while in jet mode; the mini-game that you unlock, however, is definitely a throwback to the old school SHUMP and the Vic Viper ship that you play as there even looks like the old Gradius dogfighter.

Smooth Criminal
 

N3ON

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If I had to tier character likelihood, it would probably go like this (assuming Sakurai brings back previous cut characters, and includes 3rd parties):

S Tier (extremely likely)
King K. Rool
Mewtwo
Little Mac
Palutena

A Tier (fairly likely)
Megaman
Roy
Ridley
Samurai Goroh
Mii

B Tier (likely)
Dixie Kong
Isaac
Saki
Zoroark

C Tier (possible)
Shulk
Takamaru
Krom
Krystal
Starfy
Toad
Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario (one of these three)

D Tier (unlikely)
Dr. Mario
Tingle
Ghirahim
Waluigi
Mach Rider
Bandana Dee
Medusa
Miyamoto IP
Slime
Layton

Anyone else not listed I think would be in a lower tier. I'm guessing that there will be at least one character not here that makes it in, though.

And this is just my opinion/speculation, so feel free to ignore this list. Or criticize me. :awesome:
 

Disfunkshunal

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Palutena, mega man, goroh, Taka, and Isaac are too high IMO. New ip and bandanna dee are too low.

:phone:
 

Guybrush20X6

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If I had to tier character likelihood, it would probably go like this (assuming Sakurai brings back previous cut characters, and includes 3rd parties):

S Tier (extremely likely)
King K. Rool
Mewtwo
Little Mac
Palutena

A Tier (fairly likely)
Megaman
Roy
Ridley
Samurai Goroh
Mii

B Tier (likely)
Dixie Kong
Isaac
Saki
Zoroark

C Tier (possible)
Shulk
Takamaru
Krom
Krystal
Starfy
Toad
Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario (one of these three)

D Tier (unlikely)
Dr. Mario
Tingle
Ghirahim
Waluigi
Mach Rider
Bandana Dee
Medusa
Miyamoto IP
Slime
Layton

Anyone else not listed I think would be in a lower tier. I'm guessing that there will be at least one character not here that makes it in, though.

And this is just my opinion/speculation, so feel free to ignore this list. Or criticize me. :awesome:
Personaly I'd swap Palutena and Dixie Kong's places as while I like tham both Dixie has the edge of being a longer established character. Everything else looks pretty reasonable.
 

Cobalsh

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For E3:
  • A NSMB2.
  • The F-Zero was a fraud. It was a 3DS thing that was just F-Zero GX footage.
  • Black and White 2.
  • A (hopeful) possible Ruby and Sapphire remake for the 3DS.
  • A possible sequel to LoZ: A Link to the Past.
That's all I know.
 

Disfunkshunal

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Ign said paper Mario is supposed to be out by the end of the fiscal year so hopefully we'll get a lot of info on that.

:phone:
 

Johnknight1

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Yeah, Paper Mario 3DS coming out later this year makes sense. Still, the 3DS needs a "catalyst" game to make people buy it. Pokémon B&W 3 anyone=??? :troll:
Brawl is this ****ty fanmade game. They got the mechanics all wrong and addd esonic and snake? I mean like... wtf?
Project M fixes all, and makes the game good. ;) It also has Melee physics, taunt cancelling, some of the Brawl ATs (many improved), and even a few new techniques. :bee:

[COLLAPSE="Here is a list of changes with each characters from Brawl to Project M's 2.1 DEMO:"]
Mario is like a "best of" album character of his Smash 64/Melee/Doc self. He's got all kinds of strength.
Luigi plays like a BAMF with a ridiculous wavedash. He's an all-around improved Melee Luigi (which requires minimal tech skill).
Bowser kicks a**. He has so much power and so many more good moves. He can wrack up damage fast and kill quick.
Peach is like her ole' Melee self.
Donkey Kong kept a lot of his Brawl strengths and got some of his Melee strengths
Link plays like a better version of his Melee self
Zelda has an excellent range game and has all kinds of awesome crazy moves.
Sheik is her Melee self again.
Toon Link is like an awesome mix of Young Link and his Brawl self
Ganondorf is a (slightly) improved version of himself in Brawl (he still needs some more power).
King Dedede plays like a mix of himself and a strong version of Smash 64 Kirby (although he feels a little weak)
Fox is his Melee self.
Falco is his Melee self.
Wolf is like Brawl Wolf meets Smash 64 Fox (dem air moves) with all kinds of aerial combos and awesome moves. His neutral B.... woaw.
Pikachu is mostly taken from Melee with a bit of Smash 64 and Brawl Pikachu mixed in.
Jigglypuff is just like Melee Jiggz.
Charizard is a bit weak, but he's got some awesome moves.
Lucario has a bit of Lucario Brawl, but is mostly like a traditional fighting game character with some ridiculous combos.
Captain Falcon is his Melee self.
Ness is like he should have always been. Strong moves, lots of combos, and the fastest double jump cancel (down air) I have ever seen!
Lucas has 2 new specials (a new PK Freeze forward B and Offense Up as a neutral B) and plays like a beast with all kinds of flashy moves and combos.
Marth is the same as he was in Melee, including his grab range and sword length.
Ike got some more quick moves, some awesome combos, and more range. Oh, and his forward B is much better. You feel like a GOD when you play as him!
Mr. Game & Watch has improved all his specials, a great aerial game, and is an incredible offensive force.
Pit has improved specials, some nice combos, and has had quite an interesting implementation in the game.
Wario is now based off his SUPERIOR Wario Land self. He has his shoulder bash as his new side B, and his down smash is no longer crap.
R.O.B. is no longer super predictable, plays more like he did in Brawl, and he has a new move called "Robo Booster" which allows him to move quickly.
Snake kinda plays like he did in Brawl, but now has a good forward smash--his knife (lulz), some more realistic looking moves, and plays like he was made for the game.
Sonic has a "in your face" shield pressure style. Probably more so in Falco in Melee. However, he can be fairly predictable.

Of course, 10 characters still haven't been released yet. They are Diddy Kong, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Ivysaur, the Ice Climbers, and Captain Olimar. Those characters still aren't totally balanced.[/COLLAPSE]
 

N3ON

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Alright, thanks for the input ;)
I moved Palutena, Megaman, Goroh down one tier, Dixie and the IP up one tier, and moved Isaac, Takamaru, and Dee higher/lower in their tiers, and just some general shuffling around.

S Tier (extremely likely)
King K. Rool
Mewtwo
Little Mac

A Tier (fairly likely)
Roy
Ridley
Palutena
Dixie Kong

B Tier (likely)
Megaman
Samurai Goroh
Zoroark
Saki
Isaac

C Tier (possible)
Mii
Shulk
Krom
Krystal
Toad
Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario (one of these three)
Starfy
Miyamoto IP
Takamaru

D Tier (unlikely)
Dr. Mario
Bandana Dee
Tingle
Ghirahim
Waluigi
Mach Rider
Medusa
Slime
Layton

Any more suggestions?

edited for the great mighty JohnKnight
 

ChronoBound

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Roy, Paletuna, and Miis are not "fairly likely" IMO.

I'd say Roy's odds are 30:70 (in:out), Miis' chances are 40:60, and Paletuna's chances are 20:80.
No way are Palutena's chances only 20%. She is probably the closest character we have to a shoe-in.

Roy and Mii's chances are also far better than you say, though personally I think Mii is 50/50 due to Sakurai's remarks pertaining to Wii Sports being a series that lacks a character suitable for Smash Bros.
 

Johnknight1

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^^^ I have never been high on Paletuna's chances (due to Sakurai's humbleness and other factors. This including when it seemed everyone here was expecting not just Paletuna, but also Medusa! :laugh: Plus I think there are much better characters choices and several characters that would be more "appreciated" than Paletuna.

Roy... eh. He's not getting in over Marth or Ike. Then he's most likely got to compete with Krom, and even then, they aren't guaranteed a spot after Marth and Ike.

I basically give the Fire Emblem series a 5% chance of Marth, Ike, Roy, and Krom, a 5% chance of Marth and Krom, a 20% chance of Marth, Ike, and Krom, a 30% chance of Marth, Ike, and Roy, and a 40% chance of Marth and Ike.

Miis... eh. They might get overshadowed. I think they are amongst the lowest priority of newcomers if they really are playable. Like if some character had to be "cut" during development, they would be on the short list's short list. If I didn't feel that way, I would actually say they have better than a 50/50 chance.
 

N3ON

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I based Roy's tier position on the fact that he is, along with Mewtwo, the most requested character in Japan. (where it counts :p).

I'll move the Mii down, but I disagree on Paletuna's ratio.

Do other people think I'm overestimating Paletuna? (other than John and disfunk)
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Wait, the Vic Viper was in a fighting game?
I remember the Moai enemy being in a fighthing game, the same one Snake was in before Brawl, but not Vic Viper....
Though that would make for similar comparison, as all the Moai did in Gradius was lay in place and shoot energy rings.
I believe he was in the same game... no wait, wasn't. Just Moia Head. My bad.

Also, then end all argument for "wouldn't fit in a fighting game":
A Hornet from Daytona USA in Fighters Megamix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCLQq5rnwIY
(Even if the game was crap, it still proves the point.)
And apparently there's worse, there's a palm tree. (looking for video)
Plus, R.O.B. proved that way earlier. :p
 

Johnknight1

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@ N3ON
Paletuna... eh. Chrono here and a few other people think she's a shoe-in. I think she's a shoe-out! :laugh: It took Sakurai long enough to add Meta Knight and King Dedede (whom he created, along wit the entire Kirby franchise), and they are much more popular, well-known, and IMHO better characters. That's always been my base argument against Paletuna.

Most everyone tends to be somewhere in the middle, I think leaning more so towards no than yes. Paletuna seems to be a classic question mark (divided fan base) character.

Back before Kid Icarus: Uprising was released, though, most everyone here though Paletuna was all but confirmed, while Medusa was like 3070 to 50/50. Now few expect Medusa, or any other Kid Icarus character not named Pit or Paletuna. However, that doesn't mean a few people still don't want to play as other Kid Icarus characters in smash.

@ Habanero
The goddess of sandwiches is all women from my experiences. :shades:
 

RomanceDawn

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Considering her role in Sakurai's latest game I think she is 90% likely to be playable.
 

ChronoBound

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I based Roy's tier position on the fact that he is, along with Mewtwo, the most requested character in Japan. (where it counts :p).

I'll move the Mii down, but I disagree on Paletuna's ratio.

Do other people think I'm overestimating Paletuna? (other than John and disfunk)
You are not over-estimating Palutena. She is easily S-tier in terms of likeliness.
 

lordvaati

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For E3:
  • A NSMB2.
  • The F-Zero was a fraud. It was a 3DS thing that was just F-Zero GX footage.
  • Black and White 2.
  • A (hopeful) possible Ruby and Sapphire remake for the 3DS.
  • A possible sequel to LoZ: A Link to the Past.
That's all I know.
uh....wasn't Link's Awakening the sequel?

and Mii is at least B tier. Period.
 

Johnknight1

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@ vatti
Link's Awakening wasn't a direct sequel Vatti. I think Cobalsh was thinking more in line of like gameplay and story than being the next Zelda title.

@ Chrono
Paletuna's chances are debatable as always. :cool:
 

FlareHabanero

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One things for sure, Palutena does have fighting capabilities as seen in Kid Icarus Uprising.

Not sure about Paletuna though...
 

N3ON

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@ N3ON
Paletuna... eh. Chrono here and a few other people think she's a shoe-in. I think she's a shoe-out! :laugh:

Most everyone tends to be somewhere in the middle, I think leaning more towards "no." Paletuna seems to be a classic question mark (divided fan base) character.

Back before Kid Icarus: Uprising was released, though, most everyone here though Paletuna was all but confirmed, while Medusa was like 3070 to 50/50. Now few expect Medusa, or any other Kid Icarus character not named Pit or Paletuna.
Well, I don't think she's a shoo-in (I realized I overestimated putting her in the S tier), but I think her chances are pretty decent. Especially since Sakurai isn't going to do another KI, now might be the best chance Paletuna has. He might add her for that reason, though it wouldn't be the only (nor the best) one.

Before Uprising came out, I remember everyone thought Medusa would get in over Palutena. I remember there was lots of surprise when Palutena showed up on the fake universe list instead of Medusa. Once Uprising came out though, the positions sort of switched. At least that's my memory (which sometimes doesn't work correctly) :laugh:

@ Habanero
The goddess of sandwiches is all women from my experiences. :shades:
That reminds me, I should probably get back in the kitchen. :awesome::rotfl:
 

ChronoBound

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I just noticed something. The Top 4 most wanted characters in Japan and the West are pretty similar. In Japan, its Mewtwo, Roy, Mega Man, and K. Rool; in the West its Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, and Mewtwo.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I just noticed something. The Top 4 most wanted characters in Japan and the West are pretty similar. In Japan, its Mewtwo, Roy, Mega Man, and K. Rool; in the West its Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, and Mewtwo.
Technically the Japanese list would be ROCKman cause I don't think they want the *coughsplutter* Mega Man that they got in SFxT.

So now it's a fight to the death between Roy and Ridley.
Let the games begin
 

Johnknight1

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What's funny is I actually am going to do like 2 hours worth of driving and stuff for my sister, even though I just called women tools. :ohwell:

@ N3ON
Actually, I think this isn't Paletuna's "last chance." If anything, the Smash Bros. game(s) after these forthcoming games may be, but not these 2.

@ Chrono
Yeah. The more Japan, Europe, and North American smashers think like they wanna think, the more our ideas are pretty much the same. It's pretty interesting. The only "real" character popularity differences are regional-only characters (think Mike Jones, Takamaru, Lip, etc.), and a few characters that make us feel uncomfortable (Tingle outside of Japan, although he isn't particularly popular in Japan, either).

@ Guybrush
Actually Mega Man Online or Universe or whatever was going to be the 1st Mega Man game where he was called Mega Man in Japan instead of Rock Man. ;)
 
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Are you deliberately saying Paletuna, John....

Because it defeats the purpose of my image...which is to joke when people say it.
 

Guybrush20X6

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OW! The pain of the mass Megaman culling is coming back to me. *sigh* come back universe, come back Legends 3. Nothing I can do about it. 'cept maybe make a joke about it in my webcomic.
 

Johnknight1

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Shut up Golden. You are just jealous of my fishing skills that caught me a 2 1/2 foot fish once when I was 11. :p

@ Guybrush
...Mega Man 11 featuring Bara Man, who now trips randomly (lol Brawl), can't do his random little (dash?) dancing, can't absorb powers, has little HP, is larger because he is out of shape, can't hump jump as high, can't run, walks slowly, needs to take a "walking break" every 5 minutes, and smells like bacon and beer=??? :troll:
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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We all know that puny ginger swordsman is no match for Kenny in a form of a giant purple space dragon.

:phone:
 

Guybrush20X6

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So hypothetically speaking, which incarnation of Megaman would be in Super Smash Bros. 4?
When everyone says Mega Man they mean the one from the NES games using the Japanese design (i.e. Rockman Classic) as opposed to say Mega Man X or Yellow Mega Man.

Edit: Barack Obama is a NINJA?! Suddenly everything makes sense... forever.
 

SmashChu

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@Golden:On the Slime argument: You missing the fact that it's not the point individually but together that makes the argument.

The big picture is this: There are just better choices. Slime is brought up mostly for the fact it's a Square Enix character. Not the fact that people want him, which has yet to be seen. The most popular third party character in Japan is still Megaman. So at the end of the day, why don't we just have Megaman.

Again (for the millionth time), we don't get a lot of third parties anyway. I wont go to in deth with the individual points because it doesn't matter. The big picture is we need to focus on what people want. Westerners don't want a blob fighting one without arms or legs or a sheer lack of moves (again, they attack you or turn into different versions of themselves). And yes, Dragon Quest does better than FF in Japan (although they both do well), but FF is a bigger series all over the world. There are also all the characters we are not talking about (we didn't talk about Snake pre-Brawl). It's the whole thing together. Those 3 points together are why Slime is a bad choice. I don't think I need to say more than that.
 
D

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More like those points are why you feel Slime is a bad choice. Especially since AGAIN, you keep saying there is a "lack of moves", which is a load of horse****.

While I agree that Mega Man is the choice to go, Slime is not a bad choice at all, and to try to prove that he isn't is a waste of time and energy.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Oh well 3 more days and hopfuly we'll at least have some vuage answers to questions we weren't really asking.

BTW if I were to post a comic on these boards would it go in the art or writing section?
 

N3ON

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@ N3ON
Actually, I think this isn't Paletuna's "last chance." If anything, the Smash Bros. game(s) after these forthcoming games may be, but not these 2.
I agree John, I don't think it's her last chance, but I do think it's her best chance.

I mean if she doesn't make it in now, it'll probably be around 2020 or later before the next Smash comes out, and by then Uprising will have been 8+ years old. She'll still have a chance, of course, but I just think now will be her best shot if KI doesn't get any more games for another quarter-century.

Habanero said:
So hypothetically speaking, which incarnation of Megaman would be in Super Smash Bros. 4?
Classic or bust.
 

Johnknight1

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Honestly, I think after Mega Man, Pac-Man and Tails are the best/most popular choices. Tails obviously is very popular and just seems perfect for smash in every sense of the word "perfect." Pac-Man is an international icon, has had some recent resurgence (various re-releases of Pac-Man, Pac-Man getting his own show, and Pac-Man being in Street Fighter X Tekken), and everyone knows who Pac-Man is.

Of course, that is excluding Sonic and Snake.

@ N3ON
If Paletuna's series (Kid Icarus) gets another game or two, her chances for a smash game after these 2 goes way up IMHO. Even if Kid Icarus doesn't get a new title, Paletuna's chances rise for future smash bros. games after Smash Wii U/3DS merely due to the fact the viable character choices left will be down, and there will be few, if any, super obvious potential newcomers that we all know are gonna be playable.
 
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