New Smash Bros for WiiU

[augustoflores]

and that's why i stick with my name... no one messes with my name... heck, it took forever and still going for toise to come up with something creative.

 

[---]

After all of this pointless arguing, I only have one question:

@Arcadenik: Why the heck do you like Mr. Peepers?

 

[~automatic]

The scarecrows from OoT should be playable characters.

 

[Morin0]

The scarecrows from OoT should be playable characters.

No, man, we need the guard in OoT that throws a bomb at you for making noise. I mean, he throws a bomb at you! That's good enough for an interesting moveset

 

[AetherEch0s]

The problem is, Heel, it doesn't matter if he didn't do crap. And yes, R.O.B. is that. He didn't do crap either.

Also, a dog can't fight? That's honestly laughable. They have teeth, claws, a tail, and unlike some generic ones, he also happens to have ducks he can hit with. He does grab them after all. Plus, he can incorporate the NES Zapper into his moveset since it requires that to play his starring game.

He has actual stuff from his own game, and has about as much as R.O.B. did, except he was a full character first.

Also, since when did Ganondorf kick in canon? Or Pikachu use his Thunder Jolt in the games?(that's anime-only, folks)

Ganondorf does that kick in Twilight Princess.

 

[Johnknight1]

The Ocarina of Time Scarecrow should be the alternate sandbag.

Also, Tingle.

 

[Morin0]

The Ocarina of Time Scarecrow should be the alternate sandbag.

Also, Tingle.

 

[Johnknight1]

I shouldn't have to tell you that your argument is arbitrary because Nintendo is the most successful gaming company ever, and doesn't need Sonic or Snake to make sales. Would they lose some money? Some, maybe. But they do not need them like you say they do.

I'm not saying Nintendo needs the money. I'm just saying if they want to thrive, they should take the extra money. Plus, again, this also leads to opening the door to fans/customers of those franchises not just buying smash, but being long-term fans/customers of other franchises related to smash.

I know personally smash bros has lead me to literally buy hundreds dollars worth of Nintendo games. It got me to buy Zelda (I've bought about 10 new Zelda titles since then), Kirby, EarthBound, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus franchise games. Smash had made me a permanent fan/customer of those franchises.

Also, I think Sony is far more successful as a gaming company. Since the release of the PS1, no one has grossed more money than Sony, and the PS1 and PS2 both fart outsell the N64 and GameCube (and reasonably outsell the Wii while at a higher price).

Random comment: I still don't think Play Station All-Stars isn't worthy to be Smash's rival. If it was, Snake wouldn't be in it, because that would be a horrible move by Konami!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, man, we need the guard in OoT that throws a bomb at you for making noise. I mean, he throws a bomb at you! That's good enough for an interesting moveset

...I thought this was in LTTP only?

 

[Arcadenik]

Why do I like Duck Hunt Dog? Because I love the idea of a seemingly innocuous and ordinary dog who is really a mentally unstable cartoony dog (kinda like Looney Tunes or Ren & Stimpy) who is self-aware that he is in a video game (why else would he look at the screen to laugh at you?) and breaks the fourth wall to fight (he directs the person who is playing Duck Hunt where to shoot) and uses slapstick comedy as part of his routine (he uses ducks as weapons) and the idea of Duck Hunt Dog as an interdimensional traveler who turns the characters he hunts into trophies in the Adventure Mode is just too good to pass up. I also love the idea of the Duck Hunt Dog laughing at the heroes and the villains and getting his comeuppance in the middle of the story (getting shot) before redeeming himself by turning the Big Bad into a trophy. Finally, I want Duck Hunt Dog to have one special move where he gets shot for laughing and it's like Jigglypuff's Rest where the dog is stunned for a couple seconds after getting shot but the opponent is KO'd for getting caught in the crossfire.

And the hats! Pikachu and Jigglypuff wear different hats. Duck Hunt Dog would wear Peach's crown as a reference to that first king who was transformed into a dog in Super Mario Bros. 3! He would also wear General Pepper's hat and shades as a reference to his incorrect name, Mr. Peppers (and they are both dogs). The dog would also wear his blue top hat from Barker Bill's Trick Shooting (it was his second game). He would also wear the white sombrero from Wild Gunman and the police's hat from Hogan's Alley, the two less-known Zapper games. He would also wear Booker's helmet and uniform (he is a dog from Animal Crossing).

 

[Johnknight1]

While Nintendo doesn't need those greenbacks, Nintendo is a money-loving company like everyone else, so I think what John is alluring to is that Nintendo wants that cash. Though that doesn't seal the deal on anything really because of controversy and the difficulty.

Basically. I am speaking purely from an objective business perspective like a good Business Major!

Not sure if there is any real way to measure how much they gained from the insertion of Snake and Sonic, at any rate.

Well there is sales and hype, which was noticeable when the Brawl Dojo got over 1 million unique hits when Sonic was revealed. Also, you could look at increases in sales of various franchises with new games that have characters/content in Brawl after it was released. Smash Bros is, in a way, like a billboard for everything with content (mostly playable characters) in it. Heck, Smash Bros is how Fire Emblem left Japan. You gotta figure for every say 10 sales of smash bros Nintendo makes about 1 extra games' worth of sales. If Sonic or Snake give me 1 extra sold copy of Smash in 10,000 and I'm at Nintendo, sign me up... as long as the legal rights don't lose me more money than I make off them in the game.

You gotta figure Brawl turned a few Sonic and Snake/Metal Gear fans into fans of other series too. Smash Bros is kinda sorta an advertisement for all things Nintendo. Likewise, you gotta think it made a few gamers more interested in MGS4 and Sonic Unleashed (hence their sales increase from previous games in said franchise).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ganondorf does that kick in Twilight Princess.

That's after Melee, though. He definitely never kicked before.

Touche, partially, though.

 

[Oasis_S]

Since Nintendo is a business and thus wants all the money it can possibly get, I look forward to seeing McDonald's food replace the food item. Because I foresee mountable items, it is also likely that Hyundai cars will become new items as well.

And Meleedorf and Brawldorf have different kicks. Meleedorf used Captain Falcon's kick, Brawldorf used the kick he did in Twilight Princess. Ganondorf in TP also did that elbow attack, I believe?

 

[Johnknight1]

Actually back in like 98-00 there were Super Smash Bros. toys at McDonald's! So yeah, that joke idea isn't really that bad or far fetched of an idea!

I promise you, it's no way near as needed, or as much as John would like you to believe.

Nintendo loves money, and they can DEFINITELY make it without third parties.

All I said is if Nintendo wants extra money, they need Snake and Sonic. Truly nothing is really needed in Smash Bros by it's current definition (which is as a Nintendo crossover fighting game). Heck, you could argue Smash Bros. could still be Smash Bros. will all Pokémon characters on all F-Zero stages!

Also, Nintendo loves money, and they can DEFINITELY make it without any of the original 12 in Smash Wii U/3DS.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So, if Mario isn't in the game people won't be pissed?

 

[Morin0]

Also, Nintendo loves money, and they can DEFINITELY make it without any of the original 12 in Smash Wii U/3DS.

What am I reading?

This is the last time I come back here

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Psycho
People would be pissed (myself included) if Mario/the original 12 were cut, but it's not like Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS wouldn't still sell like hotcakes. However, if such a silly hypothetical thing happened, I would expect there to be quite a number of fans of said character(s) who refuse to buy the game because of that. What I am merely stating is that no character is "needed" for Nintendo that would absolutely prevent Smash Bros. from making money.

Now if Smash removed ALL of the major "iconic characters" (whatever you define that as) from smash, then it would lose a crap ton of customers. Like, if only the ROB's, Ike's, and Meta Knight's of the world remain from previous smash bros games instead of the likes of the Mario's, Pikachu's, Link's, Diddy Kong's, and Sonic's.

@ Morino
Woaw boi. That was a joke. Calm down bro. Read what I wrote to Psycho.

Most characters aren't going to excite players like Wario, Diddy or even Pit. The pool is just getting smaller.

Agreed. Smash is running out of iconic Nintendo characters to choose from. All we have left IMHO are Dixie and K. Rool. You could argue characters like Little Mac and Ridley, too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Also, Nintendo loves money, and they can DEFINITELY make it without any of the original 12 in Smash Wii U/3DS.

Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Link, Pikachu, that all sell pretty damn well. The rest, perhaps, you could make a case for. But those guys? Seriously, no.

Smash would not sell without them. :|

 

[Johnknight1]

Smash 4 would still sell millions without Mario, DK, Link, Samus, Kirby, and Pikachu. Again, just not as well as it would with them.

However, if you are talking about every smash bros game since the original not having those characters, then I agree that smash would be about half as popular without them.

This does not even take into consideration that Nintendo is holding three separate presentations over the course of three days (this year marks the first time Nintendo will be streaming the Developer's Roundtable).

That bold/italic/underlined part... YES!!! That's where Brawl was first shown off!!!

Shulk and Palutena have the nice charm of being characters that work, are popular enough but also not too popular to seem less obvious. Even Brawl's original trailer had Meta-Knight and Zero Suit Samus, two characters who weren't the cream of the crop in terms of request.

I agree with what you are saying. However, I must say that ZSS' sex appeal (blonde blue eyed girls always get the love) and Meta Knight's bad acidry alone made them hyped. Shulk and Paletuna don't have that. Well Paletuna has some sex appeal, but not a whole lot. That's not to say they wouldn't be great playable characters, of course. I am not arguing that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It isn't Smash without those five. Those are the biggest Nintendo characters as of this time. It would barely sell at all. They're Nintendo's faces.

How is it even Super Smash Bros. without the original brothers? Seriously, it just doesn't work. Those 5 are key, and if any, DK could be taken off that list, but it doesn't change the point. If a person was going to buy Smash, unless they utterly hate all 4 of those series, they will get it.

 

[ChronoBound]

Most characters aren't going to excite players like Wario, Diddy or even Pit. The pool is just getting smaller.

Even Brawl's original trailer had Meta-Knight and Zero Suit Samus, two characters who weren't the cream of the crop in terms of request.

Meta Knight was certainly in the A-tier in terms of requests prior to Brawl's unveil.

As to the pool of characters that will excite Nintendo fans, the only two left really are Ridley and Mega Man.

 

[Oasis_S]

Still, wouldn't it have made more sense to reveal King Dedede before Meta Knight? Depending on how you look at it, I guess. Revealing Meta Knight first may have been MORE surprising, thus leaving the more wanted character to surprise people later? In a weird way it works.

 

[Arcadenik]

[COLLAPSE="Just sent this stage concept to Sakurai's Twitter."]

1. Ducks fly.
2. Light Gun shoots.
3. Explosions hurt.
4. 3 big platforms.
5. 4 tree branches.
6. Counting score.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

One thing I hope is that Miyamoto's new IP isn't a platformer since Nintendo has enough of those.

 

[Deleted member]

So to everyone, if you had the decision to put in whoever you wanted in Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, and then Smash 4, who would it be? Only rule is that the roster number should be the same.

This would be my roster for those games:
[COLLAPSE="Smash 64"]1. Mario
2. Luigi*
3. Donkey Kong
4. Yoshi
5. Link
6. Samus
7. Kirby
8. Fox
9. Pikachu
10. Meowth*
11. Captain Falcon*
12. Ness*[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Melee"]1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser*

1. Donkey Kong
2. Diddy Kong

1. Wario

1. Yoshi

1. Link
2. Zelda/Sheik
3. Ganondorf*

1. Samus

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede*

1. Fox
2. Wolf*

1. Pikachu
2. Meowth
3. Pichu*
4. Mewtwo*

1. Captain Falcon

1. Ness

1. Marth*

1. Pit

1. Mr. Game & Watch*[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Brawl"]1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser*
5. Toad

1. Donkey Kong
2. Diddy Kong
3. King K. Rool*

1. Yoshi

1. Wario

1. Link
2. Zelda/Sheik
3. Ganondorf
4. Toon Link*

1. Samus
2. Ridley*

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede
3. Meta-Knight*

1. Fox
2. Wolf*
3. Falco

1. Pikachu
2. Meowth
3. Pichu
4. Lucario*
5. Mewtwo*
6. Deoxys*

1. Captain Falcon
2. Samurai Goroh*

1. Ness

1. Marth
2. Ike*

1. Pit

1. Mr. Game & Watch*

1. Little Mac

1. R.O.B.*

1. Olimar[/COLLAPSE]
And finally, what would be my Smash 4 roster...
[COLLAPSE="Smash 4"]1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Toad
6. Bowser Jr.*

1. Donkey Kong
2. Diddy Kong
3. King K. Rool*
4. Dixie Kong

1. Wario

1. Yoshi

1. Link
2. Zelda/Sheik
3. Ganondorf*
4. Toon Link*

1. Samus
2. Ridley*

1. Kirby
2. King Dedede
3. Meta-Knight*

1. Fox
2. Wolf*
3. Falco
4. Krystal

1. Pikachu
2. Meowth
3. Pichu
4. Lucario
5. Zoroark* (as much as I hate him, he's the best choice 5th gen has at this moment)
6. 6th Gen Pokemon mascot*
7. Mewtwo*
8. Deoxys*

1. Captain Falcon
2. Samurai Goroh*

1. Ness

1. Marth
2. Ike*
3. Krom*

1. Pit
2. Palutena*

1. Olimar

1. Little Mac

1. Takamaru

1. Lip*

1. Mr. Game & Watch*

1. R.O.B.*

1. Duck Hunt Dog*

1. Ice Climbers*

1. Animal Crosser

1. Isaac

1. Mii*[/COLLAPSE]

As to the pool of characters that will excite Nintendo fans, the only two left really are Ridley and Mega Man.

Might want to add on there King K. Rool and Mewtwo.

 

[Big-Cat]

The style dictated by Nintendo's characters. Having a dog rummaging around is going to be strange compared to everyone else. Takamaru as a samurai fits better. Mach Rider fits better. Muddy Mole fits better. Even if he did fit, everyone else fits better, so that cannot be called as a reason for him to be in.

What is this style? The character designs are so diverse in design that it's irrelevant when it comes to how a character will look especially since they'd be getting different looks to suit the atmosphere anyway like what happened to Ice Climbers and Pit. It's not like we're putting him into a completely original cast or anything.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I just remembered a character I want: Ray MKIII, It could work if you make him Olimar sized.

Sorry, just had to shout that out. Certainly more popular in Japan than the rest of the world.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Good thing, I sent a Takamaru moveset to Sakurai's Twitter and shown a link to the Facebook to prove that everyone wants him. What can I say? Americans are suckers for samurai.

 

[Arcadenik]

Good thing, I sent a Takamaru moveset to Sakurai's Twitter and shown a link to the Facebook to prove that everyone wants him. What can I say? Americans are suckers for samurai.

Yeah, good thing I sent a Duck Hunt Dog moveset and stage to Sakurai's Twitter and showed a link to the Facebook group to prove that everyone wants him, too. What can I say? Americans are suckers for dogs.

One thing I hope is that Miyamoto's new IP isn't a platformer since Nintendo has enough of those.

Of all Miyamoto's IPs, only Mario and Donkey Kong are platformers. Yeah, it's a lot, all right.

 

[SmashChu]

You know what, Holder of the Doggy Bag? People will get more excited at Duck Hunt Dog as a playable character than Takamaru, Muddy Mole, etc. because they are going to whine about how Duck Hunt Dog took that last spot from their favorite character.

Unless Sakurai comes out and says "I hate Duck Hunt Dog and he is not going to make any appearance, not even a sticker, in my games", the dog has a chance.

You disallusion knows no bounds.

On the twitter thing, if none of us like the idea, what makes you think Sakurai will?

I'm not saying Nintendo needs the money. I'm just saying if they want to thrive, they should take the extra money. Plus, again, this also leads to opening the door to fans/customers of those franchises not just buying smash, but being long-term fans/customers of other franchises related to smash.

What about the cost of putting those characters in (like royalties)?

What is this style? The character designs are so diverse in design that it's irrelevant when it comes to how a character will look especially since they'd be getting different looks to suit the atmosphere anyway like what happened to Ice Climbers and Pit. It's not like we're putting him into a completely original cast or anything.

The style of Smash is central unity where they try to meet somewhere in the middle.

Just because it's not water colors doesn't mean there is no style.

 

[Arcadenik]

You disallusion knows no bounds.

On the twitter thing, if none of us like the idea, what makes you think Sakurai will?

None of us? 1,035 likes on the Facebook support group says otherwise. How many likes does Sheriff have again? Does he even have a page?

 

[SmashChu]

None of us? 1,035 likes on the Facebook support group says otherwise. How many likes does Sheriff have again? Does he even have a page?

Smash has 10 million players. That is a drop in the bucket. In the same vein, look around you at all the people who don't care.

The Dog was never a trophy, assist or even a sticker. But the ducks were. No one cares about the dog and Sakurai shows no interest. Your just as bad as Diddy.

 

[Arcadenik]

Smash has 10 million players. That is a drop in the bucket. In the same vein, look around you at all the people who don't care.

The Dog was never a trophy, assist or even a sticker. But the ducks were. No one cares about the dog and Sakurai shows no interest. Your just as bad as Diddy.

Right, right... you are absolutely right and I am wrong as usual. Because Diddy Kong, Pokemon Trainer, and R.O.B. were in Melee. Just because a character didn't make an appearance in one Smash game doesn't mean they can't be in the next game.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Of all Miyamoto's IPs, only Mario and Donkey Kong are platformers. Yeah, it's a lot, all right.

Let me rephrase that, I meant all Nintendo games in general. The other platformers are Kirby, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Gyromite, Ice Climber, & Wario Land.

 

[Big-Cat]

The style of Smash is central unity where they try to meet somewhere in the middle.

Just because it's not water colors doesn't mean there is no style.

I wasn't referring to artistic motifs. I knew the answer and wanted to see what he was going to say. As you said, they try to meet somewhere in the middle. I fail to see how this excludes any particular character from entering on aesthetics alone (unless we're talking Resident Evil monsters or something).

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Sakurai really cares what we have to say.
He didn't reply to any of my tweets, and I've given him a moveset for Meta Ridley (When I supported him over regular Ridley), asked him if Magnus was to return in any future games, and asked him if we will see the Melee redesign of Mach Rider in the future as well.

 

[ChronoBound]

Might want to add on there King K. Rool and Mewtwo.

K. Rool definitely not. K. Rool has not been a major character in the DK series since 1999. There are many DK fans IRL who don't know who he is (aside from DK64, he only made an appearance at the end of each game to the DKC trilogy). I would say even Dixie Kong is more recognizable than K. Rool.

Mewtwo might count, though he is not truly a newcomer.

 

[Linkshot]

I don't think Sakurai really cares what we have to say.
He didn't reply to any of my tweets, and I've given him a moveset for Meta Ridley (When I supported him over regular Ridley), asked him if Magnus was to return in any future games, and asked him if we will see the Melee redesign of Mach Rider in the future as well.

He cares but works constantly over the course of the week so he probably wants to just ignore it on his breaks, not reply to theorycraft about it.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think Sakurai really cares what we have to say.
He didn't reply to any of my tweets, and I've given him a moveset for Meta Ridley (When I supported him over regular Ridley), asked him if Magnus was to return in any future games, and asked him if we will see the Melee redesign of Mach Rider in the future as well.

Sakurai probably doesn't want to set any precendents when it comes to responding to Twitter posts. If he starts answering people's questions, he's gonna have to answer all of them or face backlash. Of course, Ono seems to be doing fine (health issues aside) and so does Harada.

 

[---]

K. Rool definitely not. K. Rool has not been a major character in the DK series since 1999. There are many DK fans IRL who don't know who he is (aside from DK64, he only made an appearance at the end of each game to the DKC trilogy). I would say even Dixie Kong is more recognizable than K. Rool.

So the DS games don't count?