New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Metal Overlord]

Naw man, naw Holder see you got it all wrong, you gots to talk like this

See, you can't be goin around sayin that "government" **** that the schools be teachin you, or else the guvment done already got a hold of ya mind, my man. Sayin **** like "government" is talkin like 'em, and talkin like 'em is da first step to bein' em, nah mean. And once you take dat first step, you don't go back, and you don't want dat to happen, nah do ya, so you gotta say it the RIGHT way, you know like "guvment", nahm sayin

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't particularly like Aristotle. I prefer the philosophies of Locke personally. And Washington. And Franklin.

@ vatti
The difference is Slime and Chocobo are in dang near every Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy game.

Starman isn't in MOTHER 3. Besides, we all know the main character is Gigyas.

Edit: In other words, I STRENGTHENED YOUR SLIME AND CHOCOBO ARGUMENT!

 

[Metal Overlord]

Starman and maybe Poo are the only Mother/Earthbound characters that really interest me

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm gonna adress my issue about why I have some beef with Slime and Chocobo being squeenix reps.

Ok, let us have a hypothetical scenario. let us say Ness never was in Smash 64. now here we are, waiting for a Rep from the Mother series to get in the game. now people would debate who would be the best candidate for the game, and the concensus that the Mother rep shall be....

...Starman. wait, what? well look at it this way, Starman is iconic, and is a popular acharacter in the series, even appearing on the cover of some games. now some would then come up and argue Mr. Saturn would be a better rep-he is the Mascot of the franchise,and more popular worldwide. now they would argue "he has no arms, how can he fight?" well they would come up with legit, unorthodox moveset possibilities to prove he could be a good fighter. now those who played Mother would then say, Why not someone like Ness or Lucas? they are the main characters, can't they make more sense as playable. the others argue that"they were only in one game, and if you never played it, you don't know who they are! Mr. saturn and Starman are more iconic, and better reps!"

now take this, replace Mother with Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest, Starman with Chocobo, and Mr. Saturn with Slime.

IT'S THE SAME S*** PEOPLE SAY NOW.

the moral? if people suggest Terra, or Cecil, or*sigh* Cloud(bloody Theatrhythim), don't disregard it by saying Slime and Chocobo are 1000x better.

Except you are comparing apples and oranges. Both characters are mascots of their series (although there is a case to be made that Moogle is more of a mascot than Chocobo) and are in a different category than Cecil, Terra, Cloud, etc. It goes beyond just one game, especially with the Dragon Quest franchise (Slime Mori Mori). Dragon Quest is more comparable to the Pokémon series and less like Mother. Final Fantasy you may have a point, but again I will point out that in the Melee poll Chocobo received a lot of votes (even though they affected nothing). Sure, the counter point could be that that was years ago, but it is still an interesting point none the less. *shrugs*

 

[Deleted member]

Big hole in that logic, lordvaati.
Starman and Mr. Saturn don't have their own spin-offs like Slime and Chocobo do.
And another big hole; Pikachu. Pikachu was added soley because it was the mascot rather than its major role in the games (which it actually lacks). I guess instead of it we should have had the Pokemon Trainer very early, or at least Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise as seperate characters, as they are the "main" Pokemon of R/B/G.
EDIT: Don't even bring up Yellow, as Yellow was made after the anime debuted and after Pikachu was established as the mascot.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Actually, Golden, that wouldn't have been such a bad idea at all, as much as I love Pikachu

 

[Starphoenix]

This Slime talk makes me think of this picture:

[COLLAPSE="Mario bloody pulp"]

[/COLLAPSE]

I really do hope there is a Square Enix character not named Cloud that cameos in the next Super Smash Bros. Too bad the Mana series is dead, and Crono is too antiquated.

 

[Deleted member]

Which idea? Pokemon Trainer or the starters as seperate characters?
I assume the latter, correct?
@Star: Only acceptable one is Tifa, since she has two big reasons to be added in.
1. She's a girl that kicks ***.
2. She's not Cloud.

What, you didn't think I was talking about her breasts, did you? You sick pervert.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I don't particularly like Aristotle. I prefer the philosophies of Locke personally. And Washington. And Franklin.

Well yeah, Aristotle mostly categorized everything and laid down the basics, he said plenty of new things, but because they were so "ancient" a lot of it ended up being not correct, but he pretty much set everyone else up. I don't agree with a lot of what the Greeks said except maybe the Hellenistic era schools of thought, but they were way more hardcore than what we call philosophers today, who are basically just professors who have read everyone else and maybe wrote a little thing or two.

But that is waaay off topic. XP

More so on topic, if we are to get a Metroid x Star Fox spin off, you might as well just throw everything together in my mind. I mean, you could just have those two go off to different Nintendo Universe planets. It doesn't HAVE to fit style wise, just look at the Diablo 3 secret level. The different style and moods interacting would actually be hilarious and beautiful in the same way!

 

[Mypantisgone]

MIIs can still have their design go fat/normal/slim,all they will do anyway is slap the MII model in the game.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Well yeah, Aristotle mostly categorized everything and laid down the basics, he said plenty of new things, but because they were so "ancient" a lot of it ended up being not correct, but he pretty much set everyone else up. I don't agree with a lot of what the Greeks said except maybe the Hellenistic era schools of thought, but they were way more hardcore than what we call philosophers today, who are basically just professors who have read everyone else and maybe wrote a little thing or two.

But that is waaay off topic. XP

More so on topic, if we are to get a Metroid x Star Fox spin off, you might as well just throw everything together in my mind. I mean, you could just have those two go off to different Nintendo Universe planets. It doesn't HAVE to fit style wise, just look at the Diablo 3 secret level. The different style and moods interacting would actually be hilarious and beautiful in the same way!

You mean like flying to Pop Star and getting assistance from Kirby in his Starship? With the boss of the level being Kabula?

If so, YES.

 

[lordvaati]

hate to admit it, but the first 52 seconds may have been a better intro for Brawl.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

There could very easily be an original location from the rumored Space Crossover that could be used for a SSB4 stage.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the rumor detailed that Team Starfox and Samus collide over some unidentified planet. Boom, there's your stage.

 

[Oasis_S]

Oh yeah, always forget about Mii. I think we'll see them in the trailer.

Ridley, Palutena, Little Mac, and Mii. Unless Mega Man is actually in the plans from the beginning, I dunno if they would have him ready to put in at this point? Wish we had a legal expert to tell us how long those sorts of NEGOTIATIONS lasted.

 

[Deleted member]

People, people.
Little Mac's retired. Let him relax.

 

[Mypantisgone]

I think there should be a mode where all the hits do 1%,for the lulz,they only keep their knockback.

 

[Oasis_S]

He's not retired, he's just resting up.

 

[Deleted member]

He's not retired, he's just resting up.

Nah, if you played Punch-Out for the Wii in Mac's Last Stand mode, you'd know what I'm talking about.

 

[Starphoenix]

Nah, if you played Punch-Out for the Wii in Mac's Last Stand mode, you'd know what I'm talking about.

He's going to pull a George Foreman.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Super Smash Bros is non-canon anyway, so nobody is going to get hurt (figuratively).

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Hey, Oasis, wanna see something that'll make everyone act butthurt?

I am educated on the types of negotiations that would be necessary for third parties, and...

They aren't that complicated. They really, really aren't. It's just that Sakurai likes everyone to think that they are so we don't expect tons of them. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a cakewalk, but it isn't legal hell.

Lolololololol I said something that challenges the most popular belief. This is going to be silly.

 

[Starphoenix]

Hey, Oasis, wanna see something that'll make everyone act butthurt?

I am educated on the types of negotiations that would be necessary for third parties, and...

They aren't that complicated. They really, really aren't. It's just that Sakurai likes everyone to think that they are so we don't expect tons of them. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a cakewalk, but it isn't legal hell.

Lolololololol I said something that challenges the most popular belief. This is going to be silly.

Why would anybody be upset about that?

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Because people like to attack anyone who challenges that idea. I've seen a few here (don't remember who) that become Mr. Hyde when someone ensues what I just did.

It has something to do with how Sakurai said it was so hard, and people tend to think contradicting him is treason.

 

[Linkshot]

I think there should be a mode where all the hits do 1%,for the lulz,they only keep their knockback.

Couldn't without some scaling formula. Damage directly affects knockback growth of a hitbox. A 2% hitbox has twice the knockback of a 1% hitbox.

 

[Shorts]

Adding characters from other series and from other worlds, really, outside the Nintendo universe, is an incredibly difficult process. In some ways it's more difficult from just building a game from the ground up because you're really trying to make everything match and in some ways that creates limitations. I hope that people can understand that's the reason we can't include more characters from outside the Nintendo universe. And, of course, I believe that when you increase the number of worlds, you're also increasing the number of people who could potentially enjoy that videogame and the series that you're putting in there. But there are also problems because having these non-traditional characters in there -- even with just Snake and Sonic -- has resulted in a number of people who do dissent in seeing these characters put into the Smash series. It's not a simple matter of adding as many worlds and characters from other games as possible -- you can't be careless in doing that sort of thing, you have to be careful. Internally and externally, there have been people who have raised objections to it.

It's so easy. Now shut up about, Sakurai just told you that not only is it difficult, there is a bunch of reasons he is well aware of to stop him from doing it.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

We're talking legal-wise, Shorts. I agree (to some extent) that it's a tough fit sometimes (really characters from super violent games like Snake), but it's not as legally difficult as everyone likes to think.

 

[Johnknight1]

The only thing "hard" about getting 3rd party characters is making them the way the 3rd party companies want them in smash (to please them) and to make them "work" in the smash bros universe. There's all kinds of crossover fighting games that gets tons more characters from several more sources. Just look at all the Capcom crossover fighting games. Ultimately I think what Sakurai is trying to put in only the true "star" 3rd party characters. That and for Smash to be still nearly entirely about Nintendo characters, and not half/half in terms of characters owned by another company like say Marvel vs. Capcom.

hate to admit it, but the first 52 seconds may have been a better intro for Brawl.

That is an excellent intro. Reminds me of Smash 64. My only complaint is the rest of the video isn't Project M or (more preferably) a actual opening.

There could very easily be an original location from the rumored Space Crossover that could be used for a SSB4 stage.
In fact, I'm pretty sure the rumor detailed that Team Starfox and Samus collide over some unidentified planet. Boom, there's your stage.

While I agree it's a possibility, again I wouldn't book it. Let's not get our hopes up just yet.

snip

tl;dr Aristotle said a few smart things and a bunch of generic things.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I haven't read that specific excerpt before, had no idea people internally also had issues with it. Maybe we WON'T see more third parties, or any at all. Not saying I am betting on that, but it could be more likely than I originally imagined.

And thank you John. You have such a way with words.

 

[Shorts]

We're talking legal-wise, Shorts. I agree (to some extent) that it's a tough fit sometimes (really characters from super violent games like Snake), but it's not as legally difficult as everyone likes to think.

Sakurai just said it's almost as difficult as making Smash Bros period. Regardless of what sense you're talking about, it's still hard, and a major, MAJOR factor as to why Sakurai is NOT going to be going crazy with adding them. Regardless of what you think is hard, Sakurai is telling you otherwise, whichh really means you've been outmatched by an expert.


This is why people think other people are dumb when they challenge Sakurai's word...

I haven't read that specific excerpt before, had no idea people internally also had issues with it. Maybe we WON'T see more third parties, or any at all. Not saying I am betting on that, but it could be more likely than I originally imagined.

It would be smart for everyone to read every Smash related interview.

 

[---]

This is why people think other people are dumb when they challenge Sakurai's word...

This pretty much defines Gamefaqs and IGN as a whole.

It would be smart for everyone to read every Smash related interview.

My time to shine.

 

[Shorts]

This pretty much defines Gamefaqs and IGN as a whole.



My time to shine.

Which is funny, because that interview is found on IGN.

But you already knew that. Now show them the light ---!

 

[FlareHabanero]

In terms of 3rd parties, something tells me that Snake will not be in the next Super Smash Bros but Sonic will. Especially if Snake is in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royal, which will probably spoil his chances of being in Super Smash Bros. 4. Sonic on the other hand was incredibly requested, removing him would cause the biggest ****storm ever known to man.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Well, Shorts, it kind of does matter what wise I'm talking about. Reach into that magic bag of quotes and find me one where he says legal dealings are more difficult than the designing parts.

Settle down, I'm not threatening your notion that third parties will continue to have a diminished role, because adding them is hard. Hard to design.

I was making a point about how overblown the legal matters surrounding third parties is, not punching you in the ego.

 

[Johnknight1]

If 3rd party characters leave, that would be terrible for business, and would make smash automatically lose a lot of hype. This would be especially bad timing for Sonic and Snake to leave, since both characters have never been more popular.

Trust me, even if Sakurai doesn't want those characters back, Nintendo, Sony, and Konami will. It makes all of those companies major money from appearing in smash alone. It also makes the gaming universe much more aware and focused on smash bros, which creates more sales.

That's why so many characters and companies are having so many crossover games now; they sell like hot cakes.

Having crossover fighting games and fighting games with crossover characters has all kinds of appeal. It can literally attract fans of every genre and it easily attracts fan bases of gamers of characters that crossover in fighting games. I have 2 cousins that actually got Brawl just because Snake was in it (because they are huge Metal Gear fans). Fans like that you can't attract otherwise.

@ Habanero
Woopty doo, Snake is in PlayStation All-Stars. Like Sakurai cares. That game is probably gonna be as good as the previous fighting game Snake was in!

 

[Shorts]

Well, Shorts, it kind of does matter what wise I'm talking about. Reach into that magic bag of quotes and find me one where he says legal dealings are more difficult than the designing parts.

See, what you're not getting is nothing you're saying matters

And don't be telling me to settle down just because I proved you wrong. You're the one running around saying everyone is butthurt on the subject. Everyone just knows the general consensus due to the evidence I just showed you

I have nothing more to say on the subject, because I've said everything that needs to be said.

In terms of 3rd parties, something tells me that Snake will not be in the next Super Smash Bros but Sonic will. Especially if Snake is in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royal, which will probably spoil his chances of being in Super Smash Bros. 4.

Personally, I'm not expecting Snake. Sonic is a toss up, but Snake is not coming back IMO. Slime, Layton, and Megaman are the potential replacements. I personally don't think Megaman will get in. If anyone is going to get in, it will be Layton via buddy-buddy system, or Slime due to Nintendo's close relationship with SE, and SE being idiots and not realizing Geno is probably the most wanted SE character.

And John, stop acting like Nintendo needs the third parties, no one's buying that.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm wondering if I should stick my head in the sand and then read up what happens after E3 then (if I haven't died of asphixiation) everyting will be a suprise!

 

[Johnknight1]

And John, stop acting like Nintendo needs the third parties, no one's buying that.

If they want added money they do. And money is what business is all about. Stop saying money isn't, no one's buying that.

Without all the money and hype Snake and Sonic brought to Brawl, Brawl would have made millions less, it would have appeal to less gamers, and it would have appealed less to the people who were going to buy it (thus lowering the chances of them buying any potential sequels or related products). If you want to turn away from millions of dollars and possibly end up having more long-term PAYING customers, that means you wanna go out of business.

Snake and Sonic's PAYING fan bases are bigger than the fan bases of any potential new 1st/2nd party character not in smash already, and most of the characters that are in smash already.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

What I'm saying didn't have to matter, it was a response to Oasis.

You know, that thing where people talk without trying to see who's right?

Oh, and I don't quite think you proved me wrong. No, I'm certain you didn't. The question was about legal handlings of third parties. I answered, and perhaps unnecessarily, preempted exactly what's happening right now.

I'm not addressing whether what I've said will impact the third party presence, I'm stating it as a fact.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

hate to admit it, but the first 52 seconds may have been a better intro for Brawl.

More like much better. I prefer the music, albeit, it's obvious that instead of the player name, they'd show the "character name" instead.

Good to see a possibly legit replacement for the official game's intro.

 

[Shorts]

If they want added money they do. And money is what business is all about. Stop saying money isn't, no one's buying that.

Without all the money and hype Snake and Sonic brought to Brawl, it would have made millions less. If you want to turn away from millions of dollars and possibly end up having more long-term PAYING customers, that means you wanna go out of business.

Snake and Sonic's PAYING fan bases are bigger than the fan bases of any potential new 1st/2nd party character not in smash already, and most of the characters that are in smash already.

John, no.

Do I need Toise to come in here and tell you and Breadman to shush? Because he would be doing that right now.