New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Mypantisgone]

@John: and their names sometimes end up like : Xxprogamer69xX

@Kuma: do you have an animation to explain the Sspecial?i imagine it a little but i think i may be a little out of the way. :|

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Triple Dash
Yeah, Paletuna isn't that popular, or at least not yet. K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Roy, Mewtwo, Ridley, Mega Man, etc. would all be much more popular reveals by far.

As for Paletuna's chance's, I've been down on the likelihood of a 2nd Kid Icarus character since day 1 (back when y'all argued there should be 3). Just because the game gets a new game doesn't automatically cofirm a new character like a lot of people have thought since Uprising was revealed.

Also, fix itbrawl: before adding new Kid Icarus characters. He was awfully designed in terms of special moves. The only special move that doesn't suck of his is made for camping!

Brawl's trailer had very little. It only showed off 10 characters (if you count Samus), three stages (one of which was battlefield), final smashes and Nintendog. They don't have to show a lot. Just something.

That's actually a lot. If you take out the 5 new characters (and maybe keep 5 veterans or possibly more), however, you are definitely right.

 

[Starphoenix]

Maybe I've been brainwashed by Space Pirates, not that I would complain.

I'm just not getting much of a feeling towards her getting in. It's 50/50 at the moment for me. Ironically it was probably a lot higher before Uprising came out. lol

For me it is like this. Palutena has been developed into an amazing character due to Uprising. I know she is going to end up being one of the most requested characters come time for the next set of polls. She does not have anything that is going to make her a challenge worth implementing, but still has enough artistic license that the developers can do some unique things with her playstyle. I'm sure Project Sora, even if Sakurai is too modest, is going to want to add a character from the game into SSB4. Toss it all into a blender and hit frappé. Voila.

I'm thinking she will likely be one of the first newcomers that will be developed.

 

[Johnknight1]

^ I haven't been convinced of that yet. I think the first characters will be the Brawl veterans, Mewtwo, and K. Rool. Besides, it's not like Uprising has sold all that well.

Maybe Little Mac, Roy, Ridley, Dixie Kong, Mega Man (if Nintendo gets the rights to him as quick as they can), and a largely forgotten purely retro character as well.

Sonic the Hedgehog is not a good point since the fighting game he appeared in wass by Sega. As for Solid Snake and DreamMix TV World Fighters I'm not sure that counts either as 1) it is a very obscure game and 2) the game was produced by Hudson Soft, which kind of is a part of Konami now.

Sonic's fighting game was also on a Sega console. Remember those=??? As for Snake's fighting game, at least DreamMix TV World Fighters was on the GameCube

Spoiler

And PS2

.

 

[---]

For me it is like this. Palutena has been developed into an amazing character due to Uprising. I know she is going to end up being one of the most requested characters come time for the next set of polls. She does not have anything that is going to make her a challenge worth implementing, but still has enough artistic license that the developers can do some unique things with her playstyle. I'm sure Project Sora, even if Sakurai is too modest, is going to want to add a character from the game into SSB4. Toss it all into a blender and hit frappé. Voila.

I'm thinking she will likely be one of the first newcomers that will be developed.

I see (I feel kinda dumb now seeing as that's what I've been arguing for the past few months).

I do think that if she's in she'll be one of the first revealed. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if she's in the first trailer.

 

[Starphoenix]

^ I haven't been convinced of that yet. I think the first characters will be the Brawl veterans, Mewtwo, and K. Rool. Maybe Little Mac, Roy, Ridley, a purely retro character, or Dixie Kong as well.

Ridley WILL NOT be one of the first developed characters, if he is even playable at all.

Palutena, King K. Rool, Mewtwo, Shulk, Dixie Kong, Toad; those are the characters I can see being rolled off of the presses first.

 

[---]

Ridley would probably take Sakurai a while to develop. Hense what he said in the NP interview.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Toss it all into a blender and hit frappé. Voila.

What an excellent way to put it.

I agree, Pretty Palutena is a heel-in.

And on the topic of who is revealed first, if Ghirahim is going to be in, I feel like he'd be one they would show early, kind of like the Metaknight of the trailer almost, without all of the brokenness and more tongue. (K. Rool as the Wario definitely, Palutena as the Zamus, Prince Sable/Takamaru as the Pit (or Shulk if not a retro here), and Megaman as the ending third party hype machine (if not Ammy or Geno ;-; ). Ridley would make for a badass trailer, though it is hard to expect.

 

[Starphoenix]

Every trailer has had a popular antagonist in it. In Melee we had Bowser, and in Brawl we had Meta-Knight. This time around I can see Mewtwo fitting that role. Even though he is not technically a newcomer per se, but I know everyone would be spazzing out seeing him again in all of his telekinetic glory. Tossing characters around like ragdolls. If not Mewtwo I'd go with King K. Rool.

 

[Johnknight1]

Mewtwo I see equaling say Wario's role in the 1st Brawl trailer. A longtime favorite who finally gets his chance. Hence why Wario was such a sigh of relief for smash fans who've been waiting nearly a decade for him to be playable. Ridley and King K. Rool fit the cult favorite (villain/anti-hero) character role (like Meta Knight) better IMO.

Ridley WILL NOT be one of the first developed characters, if he even gets in at all.

He'll have to be. I mean, that is unless his flying animations aren't all borrowed off of Charizard. Plus c'mon-he's one of 2 major Nintendo villains not playable in smash.

Palutena, King K. Rool, Mewtwo, Shulk, Dixie Kong, Toad; those are the characters I can see being rolled off of the presses first.

Shulk and Paletuna wouldn't create that much hype, because not many people have played their games. Toad... eh. He's too much of a supporting character to be someone a lot of people would be hyped for. I mean, it's not like people would buy the game just because Toad is playable. He isn't Sonic! [COLLAPSE="Let's take a look at Brawl's characters in the 1st trailer:"]
Meta Knight: Fan favorite anti-hero in one Nintendo's largest franchises. A super fast BAMF.

Spoiler

Plus this basically confirmed King Dedede as a playable character.

Pit: A long-time retro favorite from a cult class retro game. Plus, he could friggen fly and had two swords like Darth Maul! (minus 2 hours of nothing happeningthe Great Maze).
Zero Suit Samus: A new take on the main heroin of Metroid with a cool new gun and whip. Plus tons of sex appeal (which Paletuna doesn't quite have nearly as much of).
Wario: Pretty much the most wanted character outside of Sonic, who stars in 2 moderately popular franchises. Funny, weird, wacky, and odd. A perfect character for smash.
Snake: A bat out of hell no one saw coming and the definition of bad a**. From the hugely successful Metal Gear franchise, the king of stealth and CQC himself![/COLLAPSE]All of these characters are all either protagonists, antagonists, or anti-heroes. Paletuna has always been a supporting character. People don't get as hyped for those with only a few exceptions, most of whom ares major gaming icons like Tails, Luigi, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, or Peach (all of whom are also the main protagonists in a few games).

 

[Starphoenix]

He'll have to be. I mean, that is unless his flying animations aren't all borrowed off of Charizard. Plus c'mon-he's one of 2 major Nintendo villains not playable in smash.

Shulk and Paletuna wouldn't create that much hype, because not many people have played their games. Toad... eh. He's too much of a supporting character to be someone a lot of people would be hyped for.[COLLAPSE="Let's take a look at Brawl's characters in the 1st trailer:"]
Meta Knight: Fan favorite anti-hero in one Nintendo's largest franchises. A super fast BAMF.

Spoiler

Plus this basically confirmed King Dedede as a playable character.

Pit: A long-time retro favorite from a cult class retro game. Plus, he could friggen fly and had two swords like Darth Maul! (minus 2 hours of nothing happeningthe Great Maze).
Zero Suit Samus: A new take on the main heroin of Metroid with a cool new gun and whip. Plus tons of sex appeal (which Paletuna doesn't quite have nearly as much of).
Wario: Pretty much the most wanted character outside of Sonic, who stars in 2 moderately popular franchises. Funny, weird, wacky, and odd. A perfect character for smash.
Snake: A bat out of hell no one saw coming and the definition of bad a**. From the hugely successful Metal Gear franchise, the king of stealth and CQC himself![/COLLAPSE]All of these characters are all either protagonists, antagonists, or anti-heroes. Paletuna has always been a supporting character. People don't get as hyped for those,

Spoiler

minus Peach

.

What was Sheik or Ice Climbers then? Sheik was a supporting character, yet she had one of the biggest applause out of all the reveals. Then there is Ice Climbers, was anyone really expecting that? You yourself admit Peach, so I don't necessarily have to go into that one. At least for Palutena Kid Icarus: Uprising has been advertised as naseum by Nintendo which probably means there are enough twelve year olds out there that have a good chance of knowing who she is. Toad, say what you want about him but the dude is a cultural icon regardless of his identity issues.

I seriously doubt Ridley is going to be one of the first characters completed.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Picture this: Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby are fighting it out inside of what seems like a dungeon area, when suddenly Ghirahim phases in, and the fighters turn over to see him NEWCOMER: Ghirahim as he snaps his fingers to wield his sword and charges at Link, and they two battle (Link perhaps showing some new Skyward inspired tricks?) Pikachu speeds in and begins to help while Kirby and Mario try to catch up but an explosion occurs and Samus comes bolting through past them.

Mario and Kirby's eyes follow her, exchange glances, look towards where she came from, and a giant rampaging Ridley emerges, slashing and spraying flames NEWCOMER: Ridley Mario and Kirby cry out and try to catch up with Samus.

What could happen next I'm not sure, maybe K. Rool opening fire with cannons at Link and them, or something. In the Brawl trailer though, they only showed new franchises or characters that added to the franchises of the veterans shown. So if Palutena or K. Rool shows up, we'll be needing Pit and DK respectively, I would imagine.

 

[Johnknight1]

Ghirahim isn't gonna excite nobody who isn't going to already buy Smash 4.

What was Sheik or Ice Climbers then? Sheik was a supporting character, yet she had one of the biggest applause out of all the reveals. Then there is Ice Climbers, was anyone really expecting that?

Sheik is the fan favorite BAMF, and also the alternate version of the title character of the Legend of Zelda. Also, Sheik had recently been in the best reviewed game ever. The Ice Climbers were the "WTF?" character and the retro character. Probably more of the former.

You yourself admit Peach, so I don't necessarily have to go into that one.

Yeah, but Peach's series is about 10,000 times bigger than Kid Icarus. Plus Peach is easily one of the 5 or so most recognizable characters in gaming.

At least for Palutena Kid Icarus: Uprising has been advertised as naseum by Nintendo which probably means there are enough twelve year olds out there that have a good chance of knowing who she is.

Yes, but it's not like Sheik didn't have that, and Sheik probably had that moreso with Paletuna because of how much of a landscape changing/popular game Ocarina of Time is.

Toad, say what you want about him but the dude is a cultural icon regardless of his identity issues.

People's reactions to Toad will be like ZSS, but without people doubting Samus returning! That and with less excitement. A lot less excitement. Most people will be like "oh look, it's Toad" and then move on. Toad won't suddenly make the world hyped for smash 4, especially compared to the initial Brawl 5. If anything, hype for Toad will be like hype for the Ice Climbers, albeit with less intrigue (because the Ice Climbers are crazy unique).

I seriously doubt Ridley is going to be one of the first characters completed.

I doubt otherwise. I think he won't be one of the 1st characters revealed (I think he'll require more work than most of the roster), but I think he will be one of the 1st characters worked on. I mean, he's one of Nintendo's most popular villains. In Smash we're running out of long-running important characters in major Nintendo franchises to play as.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I was more so looking at how well it would fit and that people would easily recognize him since he is contemporary. It is true more hype-filled characters could take his place. Though honestly, there aren't many of those kind of characters left, perhaps enough for a trailer however.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Did I just see John say Wario was a good Smash character because of funniness, weirdness, wackiness, and oddness?

Not disagreeing (I actually do think those are good qualities), I just want to know. Y'know, so when people throw that "X isn't a good fit for Smash Bros." garbage in my face, I know where His Knightliness stands on the issue.

 

[Hoots]

Ridley WILL NOT be one of the first developed characters, if he is even playable at all.

Palutena, King K. Rool, Mewtwo, Shulk, Dixie Kong, Toad; those are the characters I can see being rolled off of the presses first.

Star. I'm really confused by your confidence in Dixie. Is it fueled mainly by "The Forbidden Seven"(God I hate that phrase...)?

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Holder
K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Ridley, *insert Generation 5 Pokémon here*, Mewtwo, Roy, Little Mac, and especially a 3rd party character would create a ton of hype.

@ Giant
I was listing reasons why Wario is popular. Plus, his unique attacks, play style, and even movements make him one of the best smash bros characters ever. I mean, Wario MADE YOU WANT TO PLAY BRAWL! That's all I want. I want characters that make me friggen hyped to high heaven to get my hands on the game. Oh, and to have those characters worth the hype, and add something new to the game. And not just before the smash game comes out, but ten years down the line! I mean, I'm always hyped to play as .

John, only about half of those are ACTUAL moving stages. Flat Zone 2 and WarioWare, Inc. are NOT moving stages. Castle Siege, either. They're TRANSFORMING stages, unlike Mushroomy Kingdom and Rumble Falls.

Transforming, moving, same thing. Regardless, a lot of the "changing" stages had a lot of obstacles that made it to where you fight against the stage, unlike say... Mute City.

 

[yani]

Do you guys think Pit will be in the reveal trailer?

 

[Starphoenix]

Know what, it's not important.

Star. I'm really confused by your confidence in Dixie. Is it fueled mainly by "The Forbidden Seven"(God I hate that phrase...)?

She seems to be tied with King K. Rool usually. Since both are generally recognizable I just lump them together (kind of like what I do with Mario characters). Could her having been considered at a point benefit her? Perhaps, but if it was just to be a tack on to Diddy Kong I'm not sure whether that is really much of a boon for her. Personally I'm not a really big fan of the big haired primate; crocodiles with blunderbusses is where it is at.

 

[Johnknight1]

First off, what you said makes absolutely no sense. None of that changes the fact that she is still a supporting character and contradict the standards you set up

Sheik is a supporting character, but her other alias is one of the most popular supporting characters in gaming. Again, that's what I put under as an "exception."

Don't take your opinion and present it as the prevailing attitude of people. Half of the characters suggested in this thread are not going to make me excited for the next Smash Bros, but does that mean the character itself is boring? No, it is called an opinion. Nintendo could probably show a rock in trailer form and there will be people hyped over it.

With Toad they'll respond like "oh, it's Toad. I like him in Mario Kart!" I mean, many gamers (Nintendo fans in particular) would be happy to see Toad playable. However, it wouldn't make them or sway them to buy smash if Toad was playable compared to if Toad wasn't playable.

Of course, my view on that is what it is because I look at what characters smash could make a profit off of having playable. It's probably different from your criteria and views.

Do you guys think Pit will be in the reveal trailer?

Regardless, Pit will return

Spoiler

as much as I despise Pit and Pit mains in Brawl

. Basically, it doesn't matter, aside from fools doubting him!

 

[Starphoenix]

You're really doubting Ridley but calling Paletuna a near shoe-in=???

I'm only going to respond to this one point because I'm not going to play passive aggressive quote jenga for the sake of having debating points. The reason I say what I have about Ridley is because despite what many have come to believe neither he nor his series is really as popular as the internet community would think. Perhaps the better way to put it is that Ridley is more of a "Western" obsession. I could go more into this point and Ridley's appearance in Brawl, but I don't feel like doing that right now.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Ridley WILL NOT be one of the first developed characters, if he is even playable at all.

And you know this how

I look at what characters smash could make a profit off of having playable

Put me in Smash then

Problem solved

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Miis are playable. And you get to fight Master Chief, Chef from South Park, and Ghandi.

Problem solved.

Perhaps the better way to put it is that Ridley is more of a "Western" obsession. I could go more into this point and Ridley's appearance in Brawl, but I don't feel like doing that right now.

Well who's to say Paletuna isn't a "Western" obsession=??? I haven't heard of any noticeable clamoring for Paletuna in Japan. Besides, "Western" smashers account for at least 3/4th of the sales of smash bros. Metroid is also a lot more popular than Kid Icarus is worldwide. Lastly, Ridley is, from what I can gather, much more popular than Paletuna.

Besides, who doesn't want to play as a friggen pterodactyl/dragon that shoots fireballs/lasers, has huge claws, and kills stuff=??? I imagine that even though people wouldn't know who Ridley is, he would be popular... kinda like how when Meta Knight was confirmed in Brawl he had the "cool factor" which made Meta Knight instantly super popular.

 

[Starphoenix]

*sigh* This is just going all over the place. Moving on...

At least come E3 we will find out whether or not Retro Studios and Monolith Soft have completed enough work on their Wii U projects to show for. Be interested to see if we get a continuation from either two on existing series.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well maybe you shouldn't expect the master of unpredictability predictableness, ~His Knightliness Himself~ to be predictably predictable predicting predictor!

Mario Circuit is just a stationary stage, so unless you meant Delfino Plaza(which falls into the same catergory as the Halberd), then I don't know HOW Mario Circuit is a moving stage.

I just felt like plucking out Mario Circuit (for no other reason than) because I felt it was way too big with way too much stage. Plus having the track in the middle without that middle platform being lower encourages stalling multiple times in the match (because who wants to get hit by the Shy Guys)=???

As for Delfino Plaza, it just needs some glitch fixes. It has quite a few that are rather silly. Do that, and then it's a perfect stage IMHO. It' easily my favorite Brawl original stage.

 

[Lukingordex]

Will be possible to change the Mii weight like we can do in Mario Kart Wii?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Wario getting into Brawl was so badass

If my copy of Brawl and my Wii weren't stolen, then I'd probably try to main Wario. But I feel like there was something missing with the Brawl incarnation. It's hard to explain

 

[yani]

If Starfox x Metroid is true, should we expect a stage?

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Luk
No, because one weight class would definitely be better than the rest. Also, there would too much focus on balancing such a mechanic.

@ Metal
Project M Wario fixes what was missing... all of his Wario Land moves! Seriously, Wario in Brawl was nearly entirely based off Wario Ware. It's kinda depressing that he doesn't have the shoulder bash or ground pound. But man, Wario Land Wario in Project M is pretty sweet. Here is the link to see the BAMF Project M Wario my BAMF friend.

@ yani
Nope. Although a stage of such a game wouldn't be a "shocker." Expect a stage (entirely) from one franchise or the other regardless.

 

[Starphoenix]

If Starfox x Metroid is true, should we expect a stage?

Probably, but would it be a Star Fox or Metroid stage is the question...?

I hope this rumor is not true. ._.

 

[Lukingordex]

@ Luk
No, because one weight class would definitely be better than the rest. Also, there would too much focus on balancing such a mechanic.

I thought about 3 different Miis characters,with different gameplay,a medium,a heavy and a light.

 

[Johnknight1]

I think personally Star Fox Wii U and Metroid Wii U (for example) should be different games. However, characters from each game could cameo in the other game, or their could be content you could unlock on one game by owning the other. That would be pretty neat. I mean, imagine if say Star Fox Wii U had a typical Star Fox (flying around) multiplayer online, and Samus in her ship was in it=??? That would be sweet. On the other hand, if there was a Metroid FPS online multiplayer, maybe some Star Fox characters could be playable (with such content).

@ Luk
Nah, that would (again) require too much work, because:
1. If they have different moves, that means different frames, which means less characters.
2. You would have to balance each Mii weight class differently even with the same moves. It would be really hard to balance weight-power-recovery. Especially with the Miis looking alike (even if they had height differences), this would confuse the heck out of most of us when playing.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

You see Starphoenix, you haven't noticed that John is actually a master at debating. He has clearly read Aristotle's treatise on argumentation that advises to jest when someone is serious and be serious when someone is jesting. Thus, when following that rule, you are always one upping them and your opponents feel useless. You have my respect John.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I tried the drinking game I suggested... lost count real quick. I did it with water to preserve my health when ridley vs. Palutena came up but it turns out you can poison yourself by over dosing on water too.

 

[Johnknight1]

You see Starphoenix, you haven't noticed that John is actually a master at debating. He has clearly read Aristotle's treatise on argumentation that advises to jest when someone is serious and be serious when someone is jesting. Thus, when following that rule, you are always one upping them and your opponents feel useless. You have my respect John.

I actually have read a lot of Aristotle... I think including that Treatise on Argumentation thing.

And I took a Political Science class last year... yeah. I was the jokster who made good points with jokes... and a lot of business/movie examples.

Pretty much I'm all around the same everywhere, although I am the master at a trillion different approaches (failing?). And you'll never ever know what I'm really thinking...

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I tried the drinking game I suggested... lost count real quick. I did it with water to preserve my health when ridley vs. Palutena came up but it turns out you can poison yourself by over dosing on water too.

It is the government man, it is all a conspiracy. Don't drink the governments water maaan. They are putting chemicals to control us.

Maaaaaaaan.

 

[Johnknight1]

There actually is traces of uranium in the local water here (because of all dem nukes). Good thing my water comes from Yosemite!

But yeah, I ain't playing that drinking game. I took a condition to the liver. I can't even have 5 vines of grapes without getting stomach sick.

Meanwhile, Wario is eating tons of garlic somewhere...

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I actually have read a lot of Aristotle... I think including that Treatise on Argumentation thing.

And I took a Political Science class last year... yeah. I was the jokster who made good points with jokes... and a lot of business/movie examples.

Pretty much I'm all around the same everywhere, although I am the master at a trillion different approaches (failing?). And you'll never ever know what I'm really thinking...

I knew you were an Aristotle man from the way you dance over all of these fools John. That book on Rhetoric is partially lost, which is a shame, but what is left was a good read. The Ancient Greeks did it better dudeknight.

Also considered minoring in Political Science when I was thinking about college, but then I realized, that **** ain't science.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Re: Sonic Fighting games: Actually, Sonic's fighting games has only been on non-Sega consoles. Playstation, Arcade, Nintendo(handheld as well). It almost got an Xbox release via Sonic Gems as well.

 

[lordvaati]

I'm gonna adress my issue about why I have some beef with Slime and Chocobo being squeenix reps.

Ok, let us have a hypothetical scenario. let us say Ness never was in Smash 64. now here we are, waiting for a Rep from the Mother series to get in the game. now people would debate who would be the best candidate for the game, and the concensus that the Mother rep shall be....

...Starman. wait, what? well look at it this way, Starman is iconic, and is a popular acharacter in the series, even appearing on the cover of some games. now some would then come up and argue Mr. Saturn would be a better rep-he is the Mascot of the franchise,and more popular worldwide. now they would argue "he has no arms, how can he fight?" well they would come up with legit, unorthodox moveset possibilities to prove he could be a good fighter. now those who played Mother would then say, Why not someone like Ness or Lucas? they are the main characters, can't they make more sense as playable. the others argue that"they were only in one game, and if you never played it, you don't know who they are! Mr. saturn and Starman are more iconic, and better reps!"

now take this, replace Mother with Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest, Starman with Chocobo, and Mr. Saturn with Slime.

IT'S THE SAME S*** PEOPLE SAY NOW.

the moral? if people suggest Terra, or Cecil, or*sigh* Cloud(bloody Theatrhythim), don't disregard it by saying Slime and Chocobo are 1000x better.