New Smash Bros for WiiU

[N3ON]

A little unrelated, but do you think this time around the Pokemon Company and Game Freak will give Sakurai a choice from among a few 5th gen Pokemon to use as representation or demand he use a specific one, like Lucario.

I wonder this because the 5th gen doesn't have a candidate that stands out with really no other likely competition as much as Lucario did. I mean Zoroark, Victini, Meloetta, and Genesect could all work in Smash and provide promotion for the newest gen, they are all (or will be) prominent in marketing and promotion, and really could all offer an interesting unique Smash character.

So basically do you think the Pokemon people will limit Sakurai to only one option, or give him a bit more freedom and let him choose from a group (of probably no more than 4 or 5), knowing that he will do whichever character he chooses justice, as well as still promoting the newest gen.

 

[Oasis_S]

Not if your lady becomes a faghag of mine. :D


MWAHAHAHAHA!

Then I'll Serve her a pack of lies to Soil your reputation. Though, I'm not sure a maid's pride could Stand such a dirty tactic...

 

[Holder of the Heel]

3/4 the roster? That is basically the returning characters. Only 1/4 or so will be new characters. Though you could still be right, who knows how long the character deciding process goes on for and how much they scrutinize their choices. I personally bet though that they have delved a decent bit in the newcomer options, at least narrowing down who can fit in at least.

Pokemon representatives is a tricky thing, I mean, Sakurai basically said it is a pain in the *** to mess with (I'm sure he would have said that if he were willing). Pokemon probably won't be bossing Sakurai as for what they do, Sakurai would probably approach with ideas and see if he can get them approved. If not, then it is similar to a 3rd party character that they couldn't get rights for. I'm not sure Sakurai will bend his game to the will of a separate company. I could be wrong though, it could be a give and take process where they try to work it out until Sakurai is pleased with it and Gamefreak can accept and allow it to appear. Despite that, Brawl received four new pokemon, so perhaps it isn't that difficult, more like it is an exhaustive process. In other words, I am sure Sakurai isn't limited as long as Gamefreak approves of whatever the SSB4 creators comes up with.

Though strangely maybe they could be in the position to demand X or Y character, considering the Pokemon franchise is the only one that seems influenced by the anime. But honestly, I think that is simply popularity, not Gamefreak saying they want the anime showcased pokemon selected and no one else. I mean, how does it really make a difference to them? Sakurai said he wants characters that make people play the game, which falls in line with the popularity theory. So yeah, I don't think Gamefreak makes demands.

 

[SmashChu]

This is Sakurai, not the developers of Soul Calibur. He doesn't give two craps about other fighting games (well, maybe Street Fighter).

Plus consider the guests: Sonic and Snake. Video game names don't get any bigger than Sonic, and Snake is a pretty big name himself. Who has Soul Calibur had=??? 3 console exclusive characters in SCII (Link being the biggest), Lloyd Irving (not that big), Yoda and Darth Vader (big, but not in gaming necessarily), Darth Vader's secret Apprentice (not big at all), Kratos from God of War (a tier or so below Snake), and Ezio (a tier or two below Kratos).

On top of that, Sonic is still huge in gaming. He's arguably the most well-known 3rd party character. As for Snake, his series is as strong as ever, he's as popular as ever, and he was well-received in Brawl. Oh, and Sakurai and Kojima are still friends, and keeps sending Sakurai all kinds of Metal Gear crap (which Sakurai is a fan of).

Plus unlike all non-crossover fighting games (and many crossover fighting games), Smash is about history. Without Snake/Konami and Sonic/SEGA, part of that history is gone.

It has nothing to do with how big those series are. it's should they be in Smash. Sakurai has said the game is a Nintendo All-Stars game which means that these characters are not mainstays.

I can go though a bunch of reasons why they might not come back. But basically, it's not guaranteed. I'd put more money on Lucas coming back over Sonic.

 

[Shorts]

I dont feel like looking for the quote, but, Sakurai basically said that adding them is ridiculously hard, and, fans/Nintendo Employees alike both have a problem with third party characters.

They're not mainstays, like Chu said, and they could leave.

#Getthe****overit

 

[Deleted member]

I think he was full of it about it being "hard", at least with Snake.
Not many series owners will just outright pester you for their character like Kojima did.
And last I checked, he was one of the higher ups at Konami, so it's not like there was issue with Konami as a whole.

 

[Oasis_S]

I wonder what my raster would look like without thard porties.


Probably beautiful.

 

[Deleted member]

I have more reason to believe that Snake and Sonic will remain the only 3rd Parties rather than them being cut.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Although I like Sonic being around and all, and Snake is okay with me too, but they are quite literally the only two characters on the roster that I would simply shrug if they didn't make it. The only sad thing about that is that would probably mean no more thirds unless they wanted fresh guests to swap in. (Geno and Megaman, right )

But yeah, interesting how Sonic and Snake disappearing wouldn't be a big deal to me. ROB I also wouldn't care too much for, because I just don't like him much, but even then I still think he belongs more than those two despite me actually liking them.

 

[Deleted member]

3/4 the roster? That is basically the returning characters. Only 1/4 or so will be new characters. Though you could still be right, who knows how long the character deciding process goes on for and how much they scrutinize their choices. I personally bet though that they have delved a decent bit in the newcomer options, at least narrowing down who can fit in at least.

Pokemon representatives is a tricky thing, I mean, Sakurai basically said it is a pain in the *** to mess with (I'm sure he would have said that if he were willing). Pokemon probably won't be bossing Sakurai as for what they do, Sakurai would probably approach with ideas and see if he can get them approved. If not, then it is similar to a 3rd party character that they couldn't get rights for. I'm not sure Sakurai will bend his game to the will of a separate company. I could be wrong though, it could be a give and take process where they try to work it out until Sakurai is pleased with it and Gamefreak can accept and allow it to appear. Despite that, Brawl received four new pokemon, so perhaps it isn't that difficult, more like it is an exhaustive process. In other words, I am sure Sakurai isn't limited as long as Gamefreak approves of whatever the SSB4 creators comes up with.

Though strangely maybe they could be in the position to demand X or Y character, considering the Pokemon franchise is the only one that seems influenced by the anime. But honestly, I think that is simply popularity, not Gamefreak saying they want the anime showcased pokemon selected and no one else. I mean, how does it really make a difference to them? Sakurai said he wants characters that make people play the game, which falls in line with the popularity theory. So yeah, I don't think Gamefreak makes demands.

Nice analysis of the situation. Definitely one of the better post in Pokemon discussions.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Thank you SSBF. It just seems that when looking at allll of the pokemon, the ones that Sakurai sees that would do well are the ones that are showcased. You could say he looks for potential in fighting, however, a lot of the time those that are showcased are very unique and able (I mean, why do you think they are showcased?) and who are we kidding, you could turn a LOT of Pokemon into a formidable Smasher. It is as simple as picking the Pokemon stars, brainstorming a little bit, then boom. The only way difficulty can arise, which Sakurai says there is, is in having Gamefreak approve of the particular adaption and all of the rights. It couldn't be the fact that it isn't X or Y pokemon, any pokemon Smasher will raise awareness of the show, movies, and games. Using specifics ones doesn't necessarily do it anymore than another, even if its one seen in a movie. Pokemon simply BEING there lets you know of the existence of that universe. This becomes particularly powerful considering by the time this game comes out, those movies will be somewhat old. So basically, Sakurai is going to gun for who is being demanded for and at the same time fit.

The only easy one probably would be Mewtwo since he has been approved of before by Gamefreak. All the more reason to add him in, eh?

 

[SmashChu]

I have more reason to believe that Snake and Sonic will remain the only 3rd Parties rather than them being cut.

I think we'll either get new third party characters or none at all. I don't think they'll do Sonic and Snake again.

 

[---]

Pokemon representatives is a tricky thing, I mean, Sakurai basically said it is a pain in the *** to mess with (I'm sure he would have said that if he were willing). Pokemon probably won't be bossing Sakurai as for what they do, Sakurai would probably approach with ideas and see if he can get them approved. If not, then it is similar to a 3rd party character that they couldn't get rights for. I'm not sure Sakurai will bend his game to the will of a separate company. I could be wrong though, it could be a give and take process where they try to work it out until Sakurai is pleased with it and Gamefreak can accept and allow it to appear. Despite that, Brawl received four new pokemon, so perhaps it isn't that difficult, more like it is an exhaustive process. In other words, I am sure Sakurai isn't limited as long as Gamefreak approves of whatever the SSB4 creators comes up with.

Though strangely maybe they could be in the position to demand X or Y character, considering the Pokemon franchise is the only one that seems influenced by the anime. But honestly, I think that is simply popularity, not Gamefreak saying they want the anime showcased pokemon selected and no one else. I mean, how does it really make a difference to them? Sakurai said he wants characters that make people play the game, which falls in line with the popularity theory. So yeah, I don't think Gamefreak makes demands.

Smart stuff right here. Looking at the sheer amount of Pokemon content in the series it would be rediculous for Gamefreak to make demands over what is used (with the exception of Genesect), they probably have control over how it's used to some extent though, of course.

Looking at the Pokemon fanbases and requests, Sakurai has made the effort to get those Pokemon in Smash in some form. He knows the Pokemon fanbase far more than people give him credit for, heck I'd bet that he's already decided which Gen 5 Pokemon he's going to ask for, that is after the Brawl characters and Mewtwo have been asked for.

If there is a SSB4 poll, that'll probably just be used to pick out which Pokemon will be Pokeballs and trophies like in the last two games.

It has nothing to do with how big those series are. it's should they be in Smash. Sakurai has said the game is a Nintendo All-Stars game which means that these characters are not mainstays.

I can go though a bunch of reasons why they might not come back. But basically, it's not guaranteed. I'd put more money on Lucas coming back over Sonic.

You'd have to be pretty dumb to think Sonic has a better shot than Lucas. lol

But anyway, too lazy to grab some Sakurai quotes or even argue 3rd parties, as I've said before: Who the heck knows.

 

[Oasis_S]

He probably meant Lucario.

 

[SmashChu]

You'd have to be pretty dumb to think Sonic has a better shot than Lucas. lol

But anyway, too lazy to grab some Sakurai quotes or even argue 3rd parties, as I've said before: Who the heck knows.

Google the word "guest."

 

[Deleted member]

Kind of a poor way of thinking, no offense SmashChu.

Smash is not Soul Calibur, and guests are not added soley for fan appeal to where they need to be replaced each game.
Heck, if original plans were met, we would've only had Snake, and Snake was added because of his creator, who tried to get him in Melee. It'd be a pretty big middle finger to Kojima if Snake was cut just to replace him with another 3rd Party.
Sonic, while being a heavily wanted character by fans, is in a different situation entirely from the SC guests. Sonic barely squeaked by because of him being so wanted, to where he beat out every other character (more than just 3rd Parties) on Sakurai's poll. If you thought backlash was bad over Mewtwo being cut, imagine what Sakurai will have to put up with if he cut Sonic. Especially now that the Mario & Sonic series is thriving.

Google the word "guest."

This crap again?

Need I post this image yet again?

Guess we're getting a whole new batch of Assist Trophies while Brawl's are removed.
Also Magnus is never appearing in another Kid Icarus again. Sakurai refers to him as a guest character.

 

[Oasis_S]

Back in the pre-Brawl days, some thought that was Viewtiful Joe in that Assist Trophy capsule thing.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Good point Triple Dash, he probably gets whatever he can get approved and puts the rest that couldn't make the cut as pokeballs. There was a pretty formidable demand for Deoxys, I remember people being saddened when they saw his Pokeball Dojo update. But in retrospect, it probably wasn't really Sakurai's fault, and he probably put him as a pokeball acknowledging that fanbase. So in a way, us Deoxys fans (yes I was one of them) should have been thankful really. I'm sure if Victini, Zoroark, or whoever we demand for doesn't get a slot, will be given Pokeball status as a message from Sakurai. As for Victini, I really think he will be the newest Mew pokeball added in. It just makes too much sense.

Whatever happens, I'm sure Sakurai knows perfectly well what people want, be it in America or Japan or Europe. That is probably what takes up a big chunk of his time with the roster at the start: research. All of the ones that are cried out that don't get a slot get a nod in some shape or form, Brawl proved that in my eyes, and it will surely happen again. (Probably where the idea of Assist Trophies came to be from.)

 

[Deleted member]

As much as I hate to admit, as asage's bias for Victini left a bad taste to me about that rat, there is the off-chance that Masuda can convince Sakurai to include Victini as a character, seeing as that's his favorite Pokemon, and is the only 5th Gen to currently be a favorite of one of the devs.

 

[---]

Google the word "guest."

I did for the heck of it, didn't see anything pretaining to this argument though.

Good point Triple Dash, he probably gets whatever he can get approved and puts the rest that couldn't make the cut as pokeballs. There was a pretty formidable demand for Deoxys, I remember people being saddened when they saw his Pokeball Dojo update. But in retrospect, it probably wasn't really Sakurai's fault, and he probably put him as a pokeball acknowledging that fanbase. So in a way, us Deoxys fans (yes I was one of them) should have been thankful really. I'm sure if Victini, Zoroark, or whoever we demand for doesn't get a slot, will be given Pokeball status as a message from Sakurai. As for Victini, I really think he will be the newest Mew pokeball added in. It just makes too much sense.

Look at the Melee poll, all of the Pokemon on it made it in Melee in some form (except Raichu, though it got a mention in Pika's trophy). Same for Brawl, Deoxys, Blaziken, Darkrai, and Gardevoir all got appearances as well, along side several well known Pokemon such as the starters and Gyarados.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Good point Triple Dash, he probably gets whatever he can get approved and puts the rest that couldn't make the cut as pokeballs. There was a pretty formidable demand for Deoxys, I remember people being saddened when they saw his Pokeball Dojo update. But in retrospect, it probably wasn't really Sakurai's fault, and he probably put him as a pokeball acknowledging that fanbase. So in a way, us Deoxys fans (yes I was one of them) should have been thankful really. I'm sure if Victini, Zoroark, or whoever we demand for doesn't get a slot, will be given Pokeball status as a message from Sakurai. As for Victini, I really think he will be the newest Mew pokeball added in. It just makes too much sense.

Whatever happens, I'm sure Sakurai knows perfectly well what people want, be it in America or Japan or Europe. That is probably what takes up a big chunk of his time with the roster at the start: research. All of the ones that are cried out that don't get a slot get a nod in some shape or form, Brawl proved that in my eyes, and it will surely happen again. (Probably where the idea of Assist Trophies came to be from.)

Honestly, if Victini is a Pokeball Pokemon, I hope Sakurai decides to do something similar to Super Smash Flash 2. Victini sort of flying around, damaging anyone it comes into contact with, occasionally with fire. That, or V-Create. But NOT the Mew treatment. Come on, a Victory Pokemon in a fighting game should do more than sit there and then slowly float offscreen.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

It would be a bit selfish for Masuda to say that to Sakurai who probably approaches him discussing his ideas for his game. Especially considering we are talking about the modest Japanese people, Masuda would probably not even mention it, let alone have that tip the scales in Sakurai's mind, who is selling the game to all of us.

Also, Poppy, whether or not you are correct in your view of whether Victini should do more than that, you have to remember... Jirachi is a freaking WISH granting Pokemon who got the treatment. Victini symbolizing victory probably won't spare him that fate.

 

[---]

Just remembered another Pokemon point to be made: Remember all the Pokemon in the Melee intro? Even the ones who never really got an decent appearance in-game? Pretty sure Gamefreak and the Pokemon Company is open to letting Sakurai get what he wants in Smash.

The hard part is just the sheer fan demand.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Well of course, having pokemon appear in such brief and simple appearances, even as Pokeball pokemon, is a much simpler matter than some pokemon being granted character status.

But you do have a bit of a point though, I mean, while Gamefreak will make sure everything is to their liking, but it isn't like that they don't want the love and attention that Super Smash Brothers obviously gives to their beloved Pokemon series. It is a huge mutual benefit in the end.

Edit: Oohhh august, always so late. XD

 

[augustoflores]

Wii U Controller Redesign Leaked

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also, Poppy, whether or not you are correct in your view of whether Victini should do more than that, you have to remember... Jirachi is a freaking WISH granting Pokemon who got the treatment. Victini symbolizing victory probably won't spare him that fate.

Jirachi's new ability: Makes items rain from the sky for 5 seconds.
But seriously, it kind of did get what it does. It makes stickers appear. Maybe someone in the match wished for stickers.

But I just get the feeling that Victini would do more than them. Not necessarily the Victory part, but I dunno... He just feels... Oh, what's the word? Spunkier, I guess. He just FEELS like he would do something to help his releaser win, like his Pokedex description.

 

[Oasis_S]

Wii U Controller Redesign Leaked

Looks like a...

Slow news day. BD



BDDD

 

[augustoflores]

what? did someone already post this news? damn! i'm slow...

well, my link is different from Pant's link... this one isn't gone... the pic hasn't been taken down on my link... they took down the pic on twitter...

 

[SmashChu]

Kind of a poor way of thinking, no offense SmashChu.

Smash is not Soul Calibur, and guests are not added soley for fan appeal to where they need to be replaced each game.
Heck, if original plans were met, we would've only had Snake, and Snake was added because of his creator, who tried to get him in Melee. It'd be a pretty big middle finger to Kojima if Snake was cut just to replace him with another 3rd Party.
Sonic, while being a heavily wanted character by fans, is in a different situation entirely from the SC guests. Sonic barely squeaked by because of him being so wanted, to where he beat out every other character (more than just 3rd Parties) on Sakurai's poll. If you thought backlash was bad over Mewtwo being cut, imagine what Sakurai will have to put up with if he cut Sonic. Especially now that the Mario & Sonic series is thriving.

The point I'm trying to make is they aren't mainstays and they aren't meant to be. It's also why I point out that these characters are refereed to as guest while the rest of the cast isn't.

Big picture, they may not come back. Not sure why this is up in the air since Sonic and Snake aren't Nintendo characters.. In a Nintendo All-Star game.

I wrote a big essay for this a while back. Maybe I shoul'd up and post it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It works. And that's all that matters.

 

[Deleted member]

Since this is a Nintendo All-Star game, we shouldn't be seeing the likes of the Ice Climbers, yet they came back.

And I already pointed out why "guest" means nothing, as Sakurai passes off that phrase for a lot of things.

 

[Deleted member]

Thank you SSBF. It just seems that when looking at allll of the pokemon, the ones that Sakurai sees that would do well are the ones that are showcased. You could say he looks for potential in fighting, however, a lot of the time those that are showcased are very unique and able (I mean, why do you think they are showcased?) and who are we kidding, you could turn a LOT of Pokemon into a formidable Smasher. It is as simple as picking the Pokemon stars, brainstorming a little bit, then boom. The only way difficulty can arise, which Sakurai says there is, is in having Gamefreak approve of the particular adaption and all of the rights. It couldn't be the fact that it isn't X or Y pokemon, any pokemon Smasher will raise awareness of the show, movies, and games. Using specifics ones doesn't necessarily do it anymore than another, even if its one seen in a movie. Pokemon simply BEING there lets you know of the existence of that universe. This becomes particularly powerful considering by the time this game comes out, those movies will be somewhat old. So basically, Sakurai is going to gun for who is being demanded for and at the same time fit.

The only easy one probably would be Mewtwo since he has been approved of before by Gamefreak. All the more reason to add him in, eh?

Yeah, Mewtwo should definitely be an easy choice to make. I see no significant reason for his exclusion again.

As for Gamefreak, I think they had a part in deciding Lucario's inclusion since he truly was an obvious choice. By far the most wanted Pokemon and was VERY heavily promoted (more so than any other Pokemon this gen). I could see them adding Mewtwo and that being it if time restraints gets involved, although I feel such thing is not likely to happen. And assuming we do get a newcomer, I feel it's a 50/50 split between them picking a character and Sakurai choosing one.

If the former, I expect it to be either Zoroark or a 6th gen newcomer (maybe Meloetta, but not counting it in here now). If the latter happens, things could get interesting in what Sakurai might pick. He could pick Zoroark/6th gen, he could go after Meloetta, he may want to surprise us by adding Mewoth, Deoxys, or Plusle & Minun (Deoxys would be one heck of a nice surprise), or he could even add Pichu back in again if he feels compelled to bring everyone back from Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

But SSBF, Pichu was not in Brawl nor was planned to be in Brawl.
So don't you mean "from Melee"?
EDIT: Lawl ok. You edited.

 

[Deleted member]

But SSBF, Pichu was not in Brawl nor was planned to be in Brawl.
So don't you mean "from Melee"?

Yes, that's what I meant. lol

 

[Shorts]

I think he was full of it about it being "hard", at least with Snake.
Not many series owners will just outright pester you for their character like Kojima did.
And last I checked, he was one of the higher ups at Konami, so it's not like there was issue with Konami as a whole.

I think, you are in no place to even CALL OUT his judgement, because you really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SmashChu]

Since this is a Nintendo All-Star game, we shouldn't be seeing the likes of the Ice Climbers, yet they came back.

And I already pointed out why "guest" means nothing, as Sakurai passes off that phrase for a lot of things.

I was more looking at the Nintendo part.

 

[Berserker.]

What's that white button below the d-pad and beside the power button

 

[SmashChu]

Since the topic has come up, I think now is the perfect time to post this.

Smashchu's grand counter argument

Going to bed. I'm sure there are some flaws with the set up and what not, but that will be for another time.

 

[Deleted member]

I think, you are in no place to even CALL OUT his judgement, because you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Oh REALLY?
So are you going to tell me that Kojima ISN'T Vice President of Konami Digital Entertainment?
Or that Sakurai DIDN'T say Kojima "practically begged" him for Snake?

Don't be so full of yourself.
It's any wonder I haven't blocked you already. You've been putting me down ever since I denounced Krystal. In fact, I'm going to spare myself from listening to you say how I know nothing by blocking you now.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I wouldn't say it quite the way Shortie did, but I gotta agree with him on that, Golden

If Sakurai said that putting in third parties was harder than making the ACTUAL game, then rest assured Sakurai isn't BSing when he says putting in third parties isn't a cakewalk