New Smash Bros for WiiU

[grizby2]

i feel this is beginning to be a battle for advertisment rather than "who makes a more logical fighter nominee."
EDIT: big IMO

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Since when did R.O.B. or Mr. Game & Watch make logical fighters? Exactly.

While AC is pretty peaceful, to call Tom Nook that... nah. He's not that peaceful at all. He's very sinister. Nor is Resetti, obviously.

 

[grizby2]

are they sinister to the point of causing major bodily harm? :T
never played those games. they never really cought my eye. i know they're well known but..

 

[ChronoBound]

The one major plus about a possible E3 2012 reveal for Smash 4, will be Sakurai doing another journal (where Japanese Smash fans can submit their ideas for a Smash Bros. game or their thoughts on the series in general). Lots of small tidbits were revealed last time there (such as Sakurai stating from the get go that not all characters from Melee would return).

E3 2012 is a little over a month away. Its pretty exciting that we may be on the cusp of seeing the first newcomers for the Smash Bros. series in about 4.5 years.

My guesses as to the first newcomers revealed are:
- Ridley
- Palutena
- Takamaru
- Mega Man

 

[Conviction]

You think the game will take close to 5 years to make?

 

[ChronoBound]

You think the game will take close to 5 years to make?

If Smash 4 does take five years to make, then it will end up not releasing until late 2016 at the earliest, which will be when probably over half of the Wii U's life will be over.

I am personally thinking Smash 4 will spend 3.5 years in development at most. Its most likely going to be about 3 years in development though. I am guessing on a Q4 2014 to a Q2 2015 release.

 

[grizby2]

@hyper falcon
but game & watch and R.O.B. kind of deserve to be on the roster.
G&W is one of nintendo's oldest entities
and R.O.B. was put on the front lines to save part of the gaming industry.
i dont think they were put in brawl due to fighting abillity (and i think its obvious they knew that), but due to how they stand as nintendo icons. i think thats pretty much why they're in brawl.

@ilbis
5 years is pretty lengthy, but in most cases longer is probably better. that way they can see what they can do with the new controller and wii U's capabillities and apply that to smash to make a whole new smashing experience. :]
i bet they already have alot of ideas, but it'll take time to perfect them i suppose.

and now im off to bed! if i see lucas cut from the roster when i wake up i will flood my keyboard in tears.
night all!

 

[ChronoBound]

Personally, I would not mind a five year development period for Smash 4 (especially since it would be the last one I would be following), however, that is just me.

 

[Oasis_S]

Personally, I would not mind a five year development period for Smash 4 (especially since it would be the last one I would be following), however, that is just me.

But you're an old man. Time moves faster for you.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Are you John. He thought they were the same thing too.

Weirdos.

Ops! I meant rather THAN an human Animal Crossing Villager.
I know they are not the same.
Besides: How would you like the Miis in SSB4 to be?

1) All the same: Just face and colour change.

2) Editable: Size and colour are the ones of your Mii, and you can select the moves and the special moves in the options. You can also earn new moves and special moves as bonus.

3) Automatic: The Computer choose the moves and the special moves based on the Mii's size, colour and gender.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@hyper falcon
but game & watch and R.O.B. kind of deserve to be on the roster.
G&W is one of nintendo's oldest entities
and R.O.B. was put on the front lines to save part of the gaming industry.
i dont think they were put in brawl due to fighting abillity (and i think its obvious they knew that), but due to how they stand as nintendo icons. i think thats pretty much why they're in brawl.

Exactly. And Tom Nook is also pretty much the true main character of AC.

But I was talking strictly about fighting ability. I'm not actually talking about deserving or role.

As for Tom Nook being sinister, nobody knows what he'll do. It's never shown what'll happen if you don't pay at a certain date. Why? Well, can't have him kill/maim/etc. the player character. What he can do to you is a complete mystery. That's the beauty of it. His potential is off the charts.

He's not even held down by lack of abilities or genericness at all.(unlike Toad or Waluigi, not that they aren't great choices or don't have potential at all) The reason I prefer him over the Player Character is that he is a fully established character. The PC... is not. It's similar to the Mii, but isn't even on its level either. It's the Wii's mascot, to be frank. They're designed to be the true Player Character of the Wii as is.

 

[Arcadenik]

The one major plus about a possible E3 2012 reveal for Smash 4, will be Sakurai doing another journal (where Japanese Smash fans can submit their ideas for a Smash Bros. game or their thoughts on the series in general). Lots of small tidbits were revealed last time there (such as Sakurai stating from the get go that not all characters from Melee would return).

E3 2012 is a little over a month away. Its pretty exciting that we may be on the cusp of seeing the first newcomers for the Smash Bros. series in about 4.5 years.

My guesses as to the first newcomers revealed are:
- Ridley
- Palutena
- Takamaru
- Mega Man

Ridley seems like an unlockable character than a starting character to me. All the villains are unlockables except for Bowser, King Dedede, and Wario. Bowser is Bowser. King Dedede is Sakurai's character, of course... and Wario has his own game series as the anti-hero. But Ridley as a starting character? Why would he be if Ganondorf, Wolf, and Mewtwo were unlockable characters?

I agree with the rest, though. But I would also add Toad and Little Mac to that list.

 

[Berserker.]

and now im off to bed! if i see lucas cut from the roster when i wake up i will flood my keyboard in tears.
night all!

Must you overreact over a simple game that only a few people are participating in?

 

[Zap tackle]

Hm, if your game is still ongoing Shortie, here is my input:

Keep:
*Toad
*King K Rool
*Dixie Kong
*Palutena
*Ridley
*Little Mac
*Mega Man
*Shulk
*Ghirahim
*Saki
*Issac

Pass:
*Bowser Jr.
*Zoroark
*Krystal
*Slime
*S. Goroh

Remove:
*Tom Nook (I'm not sure if he's suitable to Smash, but I wouldn't mind him if he made it in).
*Mii
*Krom (I'm iffy on him due to his similar appearance to Marth/Ike; however, my opinion might change after getting more info from the new FE game).
*Prof. Layton

 

[Xhampi]

Can someone tell me how is the roster now please ?

 

[Oasis_S]

I've realized Ganondorf is probably unlockable because he's a clone... Wolf is probably also unlockable because of his (limited) similarities to Fox. The starting roster is meant to start you out with a varied cast.

So... Ridley may be fine as a starter, since he's a highly requested character that pretty much everyone would recognize. And K. Rool would be better as a starter if Dixie is in the game since she's similar to Diddy.

It's possible Ridley could just be a Mewtwo as far as unlockables go. Keep ONE incredibly popular surprise hidden? Maybe being a dragon like Charizard means he should be unlockable...?

 

[yani]

Actually, great sales may be Krom's biggest assets. It's not the sales itself that helps, but what it could mean for FE14.

If FE: Awakening had bombed, Krom would most likely not be the lord of FE14 period because Intelligent System wouldn't be confident in giving him another main role like that. But sales are far better than that of Path of Radiance and sales will only go up within the next few months. Because of this, Intelligent System will be more willing to make Krom a lord of FE14, which in turn, would make him a great promotion for it and help sales for that game. You know, like Roy.

It could, but that still doesn't mean much. His game also features DLC for Marth, Roy, and Ike. From what I'm understanding, he also shares the same abilities as Ike/Marth (or Roy, I don't remember exactly), so he isn't anything special. I believe Chrono has stated Roy is the second most wanted character for Smash in Japan, which would mean regardless of sales, Roy is still their boy. FE doesn't need four characters that can do the same thing. The game also has no word of a localization at the moment. Even though Roy's game hasn't been localized, he was already in Smash, which is good enough for his fans.

Also, keep Shulk. Brand new IP, cool character, easily unique, highest rated jrpg of this gen in Japan, game is praised everywhere, operation rainfall, Monolith Soft rep, fantastic music, rising popularity

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I am the only one that cares about either Ghirahim or Hades and I can't defend them well enough by myself, so I can accept their absence.

Spoiler

And no, I am not collapsing that. Look at it.

It's official, that image makes me despise Ghirahim even more.

I can't believe people are actually interested in Slime as a Newcomer.

I can even handle Tom Nook, but Slime is just ridiculous.

Not having arms didn't stop Slime from participating in Mario Sports Mix. It might seem awkward, but it could work out.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Right! He could be the next WTF character. If it isn't it I don't know what could be more WTF.

 

[Deleted member]

You can't help but laugh at that Ghirahim image.

Anyway, onto Shortie's game, here is why I think Zoroark should be cut from the roster.

The first reason as to why I think he should go is that if he were to get in, the Illusion ability will be butchered. There are not many thing that I even remotely like about Zoroark, but the cool thing about him is that he is able to make illusions of Pokemons and be able to be disguised as them in order to make a surprise attack or for defense. But let's be honest here, it's not going to transfer properly because if semi-clones are any indication, the work to get it done right (which would already be painfully hard) would be over what Sakurai would be willing to do. We would instead receive Illusion in the form of a Kirby transformation in a sugar rush, which I think is lame.

Another thing that should keep Zoroark off the roster is that by the time Smash 4 is out, he would have most likely lost his promotion status. The last 5th gen movie will be out in mid-2013 with the first 6th gen movie starring the 6th gen mascot in mid-2014. Not to mention we're most likely getting a Q4 2014-Q1 2015 release which by then, we would already be in the 6th gen, making it pointless to promote him; especially when this is the perfect opportunity to promote their 6th gen mascot. Also, the Pokemon Company plans well ahead, so I wouldn't be surprised if they are already working on details for 6th gen and already came up with their mascot.

Finally, we don't really need a Pokemon newcomer. While it is likely to happen, that doesn't necessarily mean one is guarantee. Given the choice between Mewtwo and Zoroark; we are more likely to get Mewtwo. There are no indication that Sakurai or the Pokemon Company considers representing the latest gen a top priority as 1st gen Pokemons have always received priority over the later gen (Pokemon Trainer was put in before Lucario in Brawl). In a five-slot situation, most people would rather have the Brawl cast and Mewtwo brought back, who would excite many gamers who have been badly anticipating him (and quite possibly the most wanted character for Smash 4). Most people don't mind Zoroark getting in, but I doubt many of those same people care if he misses or not.

So those are my reasons. Not saying Zoroark won't be in the official Smash 4 roster or is a horrible choice, just don't think he's necessarily the best the Pokemon Company has to offer for a new rep (especially not over Mewtwo).

 

[Oasis_S]

That first one is a Super Shoddy argument.


Also there is no "WTF character" quota. Hate that term.

 

[yani]

Dr. Mario for Smash.

Spoiler

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Taking advantage of Zoroark's Illusion ability would be rather tough to do. Maybe as an alternative, it would have some specials, which involve tricking opponents by making illusions of itself. I did mention Faint Attack at one point.

 

[Metal Overlord]

SRS BSNS post:

I would add to the argument that it isn't guaranteed that we'll get a 5th gen newcomer that Melee could a reason why. People at first are gonna be like, "What that's silly that would actually prove the opposite since Pichu got in", but when you take a closer look at things, then you'll start to see what I mean. Pichu is a 2nd gen Pokemon, yes, and 2nd gen was the newest gen during Melee's time, yes. But he didn't get in because of that. He only got in a quick Pikachu clone and one-time joke character due to time constraints and Sakurai wanting to artificially increase the roster size. Not due to being from the newest gen. So, since he didn't seem to consider putting in any other popular 2nd gen Pokemon (like Heracross), had Sakurai and company not decided to beef up the roster at the last time with a bunch of clones, we seriously would have only gotten Mewtwo in Melee (watch someone say, "LOL THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL CRAP WE STILL GOT PICHU IN MELEE REGARDLESS").

Also, people have to realize that playable status isn't the only way to represent Pokemon on the battlefield. We have Pokeballs to represent the numerous Pokemon we've come to know over the years. After all, that's exactly what happened with 3rd gen in Brawl. Did we get Deoxys or any other 3rd gen Pokamanz as a playable character (no Pra_Mai/Plusle and Minun/whatever being "planned" doesn't count)? No, but we still got a whole bunch of 3rd gen Pokemon as Pokeball Pokemon. Who's to say that won't happen with 5th gen in Smash 4?

So... yeah, that's muh two cents

*goes back into the shadows*

 

[yani]

Lord Ghirahim for SMASH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=siVTPGtM6H0

 

[vicgur]

Ops! I meant rather THAN an human Animal Crossing Villager.
I know they are not the same.
Besides: How would you like the Miis in SSB4 to be?

1) All the same: Just face and colour change.
2) Editable: Size and colour are the ones of your Mii, and you can select the moves and the special moves in the options. You can also earn new moves and special moves as bonus.
3) Automatic: The Computer choose the moves and the special moves based on the Mii's size, colour and gender.

Automatic. Mario Kart Wii had a simple size change, I think Sm4sh could have something a little more complex. The colour could work like the colors in Find Mii[but the supporting abilities would be a little more offensive]. The gender would change his voice, I think.

Also, I'm all for Mii's voice being that gibberish from Mario Kart 7.

 

[N3ON]

@Metal and general Zoroark business

I think that representing the 5th gen solely by Pokeballs (and trophies and stuff) would be a fine way to go, but just by judging Lucario's situation for Brawl, I find it very unlikely that the Pokemon Company would not want a rep for the newest gen this time around too. (Even if it's 6th gen over 5th gen). It's quite possible that back in 2001, they didn't feel this strongly about representing their newest gen, but that was a long time ago, and clearly their opinions have changed. I think Sakurai would choose to appease the Pokemon Company and include 1 new character over not being able to work with any of their characters, even if he doesn't feel a newer Pokemon is as "deserving". Although this could totally bypass the 5th gen in general, depending on when the newest gen is released.

And even though I like Zoroark (yes I actually like him), I agree that inclusion solely on the basis of newness and promotion is a rather poor reason, but it doesn't look like it's going to change by SSB4.

/mytwocents

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Where the heck are you Shortie...

Maan, if Starfy was cut due those criticized reasons, I'm more than afraid to suggest Lip.

Aahh, who I should support???

/Pessimism/

 

[Deleted member]

Where the heck are you Shortie...

Maan, if Starfy was cut due those criticized reasons, I'm more than afraid to suggest Lip.

Aahh, who I should support???

/Pessimism/

Try to come up with reasons to support Starfy/Lip and to bring them to the roster. Same to anyone you want to see cut and kept from Shortie's roster.

Remember, at least eight are being cut because the roster needs to be slimed down to 54 characters (transformation included).

 

[Metal Overlord]

About that... I understand The Pokemon Company is a second party company and all that and that Pokemon is a big series, but who says they're going to always want their newest gen to be repped with playable characters in every Smash game? I mean, either way, 5th gen would still be repped in Smash if they wanted 5th gen repped in Smash so bad for promotional reasons, so... yeah

And I still think Lucario got in because he was actually a good choice overall, not just because, "oh, he's new... ummm, he's starred in a couple of recent Pokemon movies... yeah, let's put him in" *cough* Victini *cough*

 

[N3ON]

About that... I understand The Pokemon Company is a second party company and all that and that Pokemon is a big series, but who says they're going to always want their newest gen to be repped with playable characters in every Smash game? I mean, either way, 5th gen would still be repped in Smash if they wanted 5th gen repped in Smash so bad for promotional reasons, so... yeah

And I still think Lucario got in because he was actually a good choice overall, not just because, "oh, he's new... ummm, he's starred in a couple of recent Pokemon movies... yeah, let's put him in" *cough* Victini *cough*

I agree with you that no matter Pokemon Company's "demands" the 5th gen will be represented some way in SSB4, I just think it's illogical that they would change their way of thinking in regards to promotional representation in Smash, when it's worked for them in the past. I would love Sakurai to not be as restricted in what Pokemon material he wants to implement in the game though. And I know I just said Zoroark in my previous post, but I really meant it could be any 5th gen contender, I just think Zoroark is the most likely, Victini or Genesect would make fine characters also.

And I think that the main reason Lucario got in was because of Pokemon Company's push, but that doesn't mean he was a bad choice or "forced" to work, I think it was just a pleasant coincidence that he worked both as a promotional character and a viable and popular character. That being said, I see little push for him to return in SSB4 from the Pokemon Company, which is why I think a new promotional rep and Mewtwo would get priority for SSB4.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well, here's my reasons:

Lip

- She'd be a defining Nintendo's puzzle representative, and no doubt more original choice than Dr.Mario. Dr.Mario is just another Mario-clone, which might never be given fully decloned moveset. The only things he has more well going with him is his immense popularity and he's more likely in general to be included in Sm4sh.

- While she is pretty obscure, she tends to pop up still in some games, like in Captain Rainbow, Planet Puzzle League, Smash Bros somewhat. Seems like she's looked in somewhat special regard, so I think letting her be in Smash would help to reboot her series and marketing status (no more banned for being too girly for marketing). Also it helps that Sakurai looks at her series in high regard, despite finding her pretty obscure.

- Moveset potential can be much more than just "whacking people with her stick or using panels or garbage blocks" - she's a FLOWER FAIRY for heavens' sake! She'd use fairy magic mostly like Zelda and could have plant attacks like Ivysaur uses.
Her stick would be preferably used for stronger attacks, like smash attacks.

I'll post Starfy's later.

 

[N3ON]

I don't think Lip is ever going to move out of the "obscure, out of left-field, minor possibility" character spot, just because she really has made very few appearances outside of cameos and minor roles. (and because she really hasn't appeared outside Japan)

Regarding your points, I think that Sakurai doesn't choose characters based on the genre of game they represent, or if he does, after much more important factors, of which Lip isn't at the top of any lists. While being fairly obscure doesn't help her, the fact that she appears every now and again proves that Nintendo hasn't totally forgot about her, but doesn't really think much of giving her any more starring roles, even in her own series. And I agree she would have moveset potential, but honestly that can be said of many potential characters that have better chances than Lip.

I think the biggest thing she has going for her is that Sakurai seems to really like her (or at least her series). I think this is the only thing that really keeps Lip as a (very unlikely, but possible) newcomer. I think Sakurai would think that other characters (even obscure ones) would take precedence over her though.

After all is said, I would enjoy playing as Lip (even though the Lip's Stick pisses me off ), although I think all she has against her would keep her out of Shortie's pool, and the SSB4 roster.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chaoskid: Can't argue with your points...

Yeah, who should I suggest?
/I'm weaker than I thought.../

 

[N3ON]

Don't worry, I'd still really like to play as Lip if she ever got in! :D

I'd love to see your points on Starfy, when they're ready. I believe he has a fairly decent shot, or at least has a more arguable chance.

 

[Mypantisgone]

But lip as a weapon in the game,and isn't the pink kirby block from here?she could always be a though charracter.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

That first one is a Super Shoddy argument.


Also there is no "WTF character" quota. Hate that term.

What about "surprise character" then?
In the original it was Captain Falcon, in Melee it was Mr.Game&Watch, in Brawl it was R.O.B.
I can't wait to see what Sakurai is planning to surprise us this time.
By far, it could be even Giana from The Great Giana Sisters ('cuz of the irony, you know):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Giana_Sisters

http://www.giana-sisters.com/giana_sisters_en.html

 

[Lukingordex]

If Starfy got playable on SSB4,he will probably have less weight than Jigglypuff...

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So he's not likely anymore because:

- He's not popular

- He wouldn't prove to be very much of an interesting fighter

- TOSE-copyright issues?

- Sakurai doesn't like him.


Let's see what I can do.

- Starfy -

- Starfy has a semi-decent popularity, comparable to other small franchises of Nintendo in outerstates. While only one game was released so far to states, it has helped him to gain more popularity than back when he was still japan-only. He though has had about 5 games and he's still going strong in Japan, with pretty remarkable amount of popularity, merchandise and whatnot.

And since he's no more Japan-only, he's now more eligible for Smash.


- It can be true that Starfy might've been actually been made playable but became somewhat of a hassle to do a moveset and was cut. Lately I was though proved that he can have a working moveset:

This is from Algus Underdunk of Deviantart, check the original pic here:

http://algus-underdunk.deviantart.com/#/d4wfrgg

I was pretty impressed by this, it seems to convey a funny awkwardness of Starfy trying to fight using his limbs, but he has to resort

So even if Sakurai couldn't make a working moveset around him, DOESN'T mean that HE CAN'T have an interesting moveset potential. You could like make him work being pretty sluggish and awkard on land, but very, very (even moreso than Jiggs) in the air, referring to his marine movement. (So he'd move on the air like it's water.)

He also has many attributes to draw from, so why would he be still akward and uninteresting?

- Now here's something what I thought: Starfy-series, unlike some other series we've seen in Smash, could actually bring a new element to the series that could enchance the gameplay: the marine moving element.

What if we could have fights underwater? What if characters get to have a fully functional ability to swim and even go underwater?

Of course attacks would be more sluggish, but I think a stage that is completely underwater seems no-no. I suggest stage segments that allow underwater movement (like a scrolling/moving stage going into underwater at some part.)

- Starfy's universe boasts also many kinds of NPC's. These would make appearance in Smash enough to warrant an Assist Trophy, many trophies around Starfy-series, and so on. Heck, we'd have stage having lots of NPCs watching the battle like Animal Crossing Villagers and NPCs in Smashville.


- TOSE-issues copyright thing seems like something we could apply to many other series. Why didn't Golden Sun get a playable rep and anything over Starfy despite being more easily accessible?

- And lastly, I still say it:

Sakurai DOESN'T HATE STARFY. I can't still believe you guys still believe on this.

If he hates him so much, they why would he bother even going as far as to have an AT, two trophies around the series, many stickers...

Now, the only indicators would be Dojo which says these words:

Sometimes you may wonder "Stafy, why did you even come here?!"


But that’s part of his charm.

Now this is true. That last sentence.

I think it refers to that Starfy is generally a clumsy troublemaker, since his first game shows how he freed Ogura in an accident, and pretty much can be a pain in the *** to motivate. Maybe they tried to emulate this "annoying" part of him... messing your hopes for a good Assist. You go like "Argh, Stafyy! Did you had to mess my chances again?" But that's what he is at times.

Though he can be also bit of a trouble to deal with... even deadly if abused enough.

But here's what he would have done instead if he doesn't really like him:

- No SFX's from his series, that jingle too when Starfy appears, and most of all, the exploitable explosion knockback you can get if you hit Starfy hard enough.

- No referencing to Starfy-series at all (no stickers, trophies, no Starfy himself etc)

So if he then hates him or doesn't really like him, then why did he include him? Maybe because of a fanbase demanding Starfy?

Who knows. I want to at least hear from his own mouth in an interview that he doesn't like him.

Now the part that he's weak... hmm. But his latest game proves elsewise. (Final Boss Fight in Legendary Starfy.)

I hope this could give some new light to ones who cut him up and maybe Shortie could consider bringing him back... I don't want to think Starfy's now unlikely too.

 

[Lukingordex]

Automatic. Mario Kart Wii had a simple size change, I think Sm4sh could have something a little more complex. The colour could work like the colors in Find Mii[but the supporting abilities would be a little more offensive]. The gender would change his voice, I think.

Also, I'm all for Mii's voice being that gibberish from Mario Kart 7.

Sakurai will really make a new smash bros with many differences between Melee and Brawl?
(just a question)