New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Shorts]

I need a Kirby hat for tomorrow, suggestions?

K. Rool
Dixie
Jill Dozer
Starfy
Zoroark
Tetra
BShadow

Thank god I went to see Cabin In The Woods in theaters instead of having to put up with this. Scary movie that I highly recommend.

Me and my lady saw that. We enjoyed it.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Wizzrobe
I disagree. Brawl's "advanced techniques" such as wave dashing, V-jumping, Double Jump Cancelling, and pretty much everything that wasn't in Smash 64 weren't discovered for 2-5 years until after Melee came out.

Most of Brawl's advance techniques were discovered within in the 1st 2 years, even though Brawl had many more advance techniques.

Thus, Brawl would be more competitively advanced than Melee from the get go, and Brawl would be bigger from the get go.

Still, Melee started in the people's bedrooms competitively, whereas Brawl started in giant lobbies. Brawl definitely had an edge for long-term growth from the get go thanks to Melee's competitive scene and competitive interest in Brawl when it came out.

@ Shorts
Pac-Man=??? Isaac=???

 

[Pachinkosam]

No big news i guess

 

[yani]

Layton or Slime Shorts?

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Where are the third-party characters in Sony Smash Bros? The characters you see in that game are actually Sony first-party characters. Take a look at this list.

The characters being shown right now aren't the only ones in the game. Yes, those are the first party characters, and they're being shown first because they are Sony's characters.

Third Party Characters WILL be in PASBR.

PASBR being the unwieldy acronym I just devised for the game.

 

[Arcadenik]

I need a Kirby hat for tomorrow, suggestions?

K. Rool
Dixie
Jill Dozer
Starfy
Zoroark
Tetra
BShadow

Little Mac. King Hippo. Deku Link. Goron Link. Zora Link. Palutena. Medusa. Magnus.

 

[Shorts]

Layton or Slime Shorts?

I had a genesect concept I could easily turn into Layton or Slime. Bingo.

Isaac would be as annoying as Sora Kirby. The hair is so boring.

Annnd I've done Palutena AND Medusa in the past, waiting to do them, and Viridi later. When Im desperate.

 

[Johnknight1]

Eh, I don't blame you on that Shorts. Still, you could give Kirby DAT BLONDE BEARD!

"You only see a game as competitive or not."

You didn't apply that quote to anything. And that quote was directed at you. Again, a game doesn't have to be competitive or not. You might as well say smash bros can only be a platform game or a fighter, when it has many elements of both.

Fact is that trying to please competitive plaayers doesn't work for maintaining sales. As I mentioned, Melee did worse in Japan and Brawl did the best out of both. And yes, they did balance things but they removed most of Melees AT

Again, 1 country's sales that isn't American doesn't mean much of anything.

You don't need Melee's advanced techniques to make the game competitive. Besides, Brawl actually had more advanced techniques. The problem was, many of them were worthless or centered around specific situations. Plus dang near all of them were only possible with a handful of characters or 1 character. Still, there were a number of useful techniques. Actually, I probably know way more Brawl advance techniques than Melee techniques, and I haven't played Brawl competitively in 3 years. I don't think all of those advance techniques and the new techniques such as footstool hopping were added on accident.

 

[Wizzrobe]

@ Wizzrobe
I disagree. Brawl's "advanced techniques" such as wave dashing, V-jumping, Double Jump Cancelling, and pretty much everything that wasn't in Smash 64 weren't discovered for 2-5 years until after Melee came out.

Most of Brawl's advance techniques were discovered within in the 1st 2 years, even though Brawl had many more advance techniques.

Thus, Brawl would be more competitively advanced than Melee from the get go, and Brawl would be bigger from the get go.

Still, Melee started in the people's bedrooms competitively, whereas Brawl started in giant lobbies. Brawl definitely had an edge for long-term growth from the get go thanks to Melee's competitive scene and competitive interest in Brawl when it came out.

@ Shorts
Pac-Man=??? Isaac=???

The last sentence... thats what I would say. Brawl had a lot of growth from the get go because of Melee.Thats why more advanced techniques were discovered right away. And I did say in my more recent post that if they were both released at the same time, WITH THE CURRENT METAGAME discovered then Melee would have a much much larger competitive community

 

[Arcadenik]

The characters being shown right now aren't the only ones in the game. Yes, those are the first party characters, and they're being shown first because they are Sony's characters.

Third Party Characters WILL be in PASBR.

PASBR being the unwieldy acronym I just devised for the game.

I bet the only third party character will be Snake. If he's in it, then it will be official. He's a Smash wh**e. Dream Mix TV. Smash Bros. PlayStation All-Stars. They just keep passing dat *** around.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

@john
I meant at first I was missing your point but I see it now.

@wizzkelly
40 post per page is the only way to go and they no longer show the "edited at blah time" line or at least I have it turned off.


You know I was joking when I accused you of editing anyway right? Usually =P shows a less than serious tone.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

I used Fox, and spammed his Blaster a lot. Reflector takes care of Duon, Meta Ridley, and Rayquaza. However, Galleom and Porky are quite dangerous, and in terms of Ridley, Master Hand, and Crazy Hand, some of their attacks can really be a big nuisance.

Anyway, if Boss Battles comes back, difficulty levels should not affect how fast the bosses move, but instead, only affect the strength of their attacks.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

^^^ it should do both IMO. Ssb should also let both types of handicaps return.

 

[Wizzrobe]

@john
I meant at first I was missing your point but I see it now.

@wizzkelly
40 post per page is the only way to go and they no longer show the "edited at blah time" line or at least I have it turned off.


You know I was joking when I accused you of editing anyway right? Usually =P shows a less than serious tone.

I can't detect sarcasm. And you must have it turned off because I see it on peoples posts constantly. Why would you turn it off anyway? lol

 

[Oasis_S]

Why can't everyone else see the world in the way SmasChu has taught me to see.

The fools.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ The Wonderful Wizzer of Ozz
Maybe Wizzrobe, but better graphics, more content, more stages, more single-player content, and specifically more characters and online would make people want to play Brawl more than Melee.

Now if you gave the two games all the same features, graphics, roster, stages, etc. and release both Melee and Brawl at the same time, then you would probably see the 2 be about equally as popular. Still, I think Brawl would be more popular with most players, since most competitive smash players haven't played other games competitively.

Seeing as how Brawl is slower, less technically demanding, and easier to pick up, that alone would naturally draw a lot of people. Still, a lot of people would be drawn to Melee's offense, specifically the early kills, how you can dominate players with pure technical skill, combo like crazy, and how crazy the momentum shifts are (unlike Brawl).

@ dis funk is funkshunal
Glad you get it. I probably should have simplified it!

 

[Wizzrobe]

@ The Wonderful Wizzer of Ozz
Maybe Wizzrobe, but better graphics, more content, more stages, more single-player content, and specifically more characters and online would make people want to play Brawl more than Melee.

Now if you gave the two games all the same features, graphics, roster, stages, etc. and release both Melee and Brawl at the same time, then you would probably see the 2 be about equally as popular. Still, I think Brawl would be more popular with most players, since most competitive smash players haven't played other games competitively.

Seeing as how Brawl is slower, less technically demanding, and easier to pick up, that alone would naturally draw a lot of people. Still, a lot of people would be drawn to Melee's offense, specifically the early kills, how you can dominate players with pure technical skill, combo like crazy, and how crazy the momentum shifts are (unlike Brawl).

@ dis funk is funkshunal
Glad you get it. I probably should have simplified it!

Even if Brawl has more content, that doesn't matter when playing competitively. The only thing that matters is the gameplay. I didn't mean for the conversation to change to Why X (game) would draw in more players

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@disfunkshunal: When you think about it though, in Kirby's Return to Dream Land, the EX bosses move at the same speed as their normal counterparts, but their attacks are stronger.

 

[Starphoenix]

Layton or Slime Shorts?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If both Melee and Brawl were released at the same time with the current metagame discovered instantly, then I can definitely say that Melee would have a much much larger competitve community. It's just that There is a 6 year difference between Melee and Brawl's releases so most of the Brawl players never really played Melee competitively or never really played it at all.

I say there's a good chance it could be considered competitive, but that's it. And actually, that's not true at all. How do you know most of them only played Brawl competitively? Do you have proof?

And the footstools and tripping are the only thing that Melee doesn't have. And footstools is the only positive thing Melee doesn't have. tripping and MK are bad things because it makes the game more unbalanced, Melee doesn't have them. And Melee had some pretty cool stages you know. And besides if the game is played competitively, then the insane stage would be banned anyway so that doesn't matter.

MK is not a bad thing at all. While I think he's broken, he also forced players to step up their game. It actually did make Brawl's competitive game overall better. The only problem is that some players just switched to him instead of increasing their characters. Which the ban, if lasted longer, would've done. And since when did Melee have gliding? Really? And I said had more things. Melee also had glitches, disc errors, more clones overall.(Brawl has barely any that are that much alike)

And the people saying Brawl was slow, were the Brawl players on the Brawl boards. I can ask almost any Brawl player if Brawl is slow and they would say yes. (or at least compared to Melee) And if you like camping, then you are part of the small amount who actually do like it. because a majority of the Brawl community don't really like camping. And a lot of people on the infinite grabs discussion say that infinite grabs worsen the games competitiveness.

I didn't say it wasn't slow. I said it wasn't that slow. And due to the lack of any real combos, infinites are the combos. Likewise, removing Infinites removes depth. Which makes it less competitive in reality. Something many players don't realize.

Also, guess what? Players don't like Melee over Brawl either. It does not mean it isn't a natural part of the game or many competitive players don't like it. You're still making too many generalizations.

Finally, there is no proof, just "maybe" at best. I am not saying Melee couldn't have been more competitive if the timing was switched, but there's no way to prove that.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Wizzrobe
No, content matters to many people. They want options. People are drawn to something that is easy to learn, but difficult to master. With Brawl it is much easier to learn the basics of playing the game competitively, especially compared to Melee. Melee has a steep learning curve.

On top of that, Brawl has more characters and online, which automatically gives it an advantage. People like more options. If Brawl's online was as good as say Counter-Strike on the PC, it would be madly popular online. I remember everyone entered online tournaments early on. Now, few enter them due to the lagfest of laggy lag.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Brawl's handicap only affected damage, while Melee's actually affected the player's strength. If anything, Smash 4 should implement both of those handicaps, just to expand our options with Group mode.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Wizz you would hate me irl then. No joke And why have it off? It generally doesn't add anything.

@MSG
I only played RTDL through once. But I'll look into it.

 

[Johnknight1]

If it sounds like me saying Brawl doesn't have that steep of a learning curve is a bad thing, you are interpreting it wrong. Having a low learning curve is good. It gets people interested more quickly, and allows them to learn really quickly. I think because Brawl had that, it got more people hooked, which is good for the competitive growth of the game.

If Smash 64 or Melee had that, those games would be much more popular and we'd have more competitive Smash 64 and Melee players. If Sakurai wants to help allow people to slowly get really good at Smash Bros., Sakurai and the Smash Bros. development team needs to follow the Brawl model of competitive play learning curve to an extent.

@ Mario & Sonic & Rosalina Guy
I think there should 2 different handicapped bars. One for strength (damage done, knock back, and/or stun) and one for weight/attack resistance.

 

[Wizzrobe]

I say there's a good chance it could be considered competitive, but that's it. And actually, that's not true at all. How do you know most of them only played Brawl competitively? Do you have proof?



MK is not a bad thing at all. While I think he's broken, he also forced players to step up their game. It actually did make Brawl's competitive game overall better. The only problem is that some players just switched to him instead of increasing their characters. Which the ban, if lasted longer, would've done. And since when did Melee have gliding? Really? And I said had more things. Melee also had glitches, disc errors, more clones overall.(Brawl has barely any that are that much alike)

And the people saying Brawl was slow, were the Brawl players on the Brawl boards. I can ask almost any Brawl player if Brawl is slow and they would say yes. (or at least compared to Melee) And if you like camping, then you are part of the small amount who actually do like it. because a majority of the Brawl community don't really like camping. And a lot of people on the infinite grabs discussion say that infinite grabs worsen the games competitiveness.

I didn't say it wasn't slow. I said it wasn't that slow. And due to the lack of any real combos, infinites are the combos. Likewise, removing Infinites removes depth. Which makes it less competitive in reality. Something many players don't realize.

Also, guess what? Players don't like Melee over Brawl either. It does not mean it isn't a natural part of the game or many competitive players don't like it. You're still making too many generalizations.

Most Brawl players have a join date of 08 or higher and you can just tell when watching people discuss that most of them never played Melee competitively. Maybe when Brawl first came out some Melee players played Brawl competitvely but a lot of them went back to Melee because its their original game and its overall a more competitive game.

MK still made the game unbalanced, as did tripping. Even though MK made a lot of players step their game up, the same could happen with a Melee player if they want to be one of the best. And people kept complaining about MK so they decided to ban him.

And the things that are bad about Melee that your are mentioning are so minor, and don't affect the game at all when it's played competitively.

Lot of people say that Infinites ruin the competitiveness because they are too good and inescapable. At least combos aren't as good, are harder to do, and easier to escape due to DI.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

What does join date matter?
Join date depends on when they find SmashBOARDS, not Smash BROS.

 

[Shorts]

Fine, I'll say it.

Slime Kirby looks like condom Kirby. We have all been thinking it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Mario & Sonic & Rosalina Guy
I think there should 2 different handicapped bars. One for strength (damage done, knock back, and/or stun) and one for weight/attack resistance.

From what I remember, in Melee, if your handicap is high, then you can withstand environmental hazards more easily.

But if your handicap is low, you can barely make higher handicapped players flinch, but they can KO you more easily. Likewise, environmental hazards are much more dangerous, as they too can KO you more easily.

Anyway, add that handicap, along with the damage handicap, and you can make more versatile matches in Group mode.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, plus many people are lurkers on Smash Boards. I lurked Smash Boards for over 2 years before I joined. Heck, it says 8 guests are lurking this topic right now!

Also, I realize that I was right. I told you guys that SSBF would be back by Summer, and I was dead right. YE-YAH-YUH!!!

@ M&S Guy
More options are always something I like to have added!

@ Shorts
I think only you thought of that.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I didn't even know about Smashboards until AFTER Smash WiiU and 3DS were first talked about at E3. I wanted to join and talks about some Starfy moveset.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Poppy
That doesn't surprise me at all!

"Smash has no competition"

Yes, Brawl had no multiplayer competition, no fighting game competition, and heck, minimal platform game competition. You basically agree wtih this later on bro.

Your a fool to think that customers only see it in very specific ways. Yes, Smash is the best and perhaps only platform/fighters. But people don't look for that. Using shoes, this would be customers looking for Air Jordan that are red with a white 5cm stripe, white 10 laces, and has a 4cm soul with a pointed end. They don't do that. They want a shoe, and they may want an Air Jordan. Smash is best compared to other fighting games or multiplayer games. Why did you buy Smash. If "Multiplayer" had anything to do with it, you've proven my case

No, people look for shoes, not super specific shoes (well, aside from a few people). If somebody doesn't like the Nike shoes, they look at other shoes.

And sure, multiplayer games is a great topic/genre (yes, it can be considered a genre) to look for. When Brawl came out, it was the only "great" multiplayer game available, plus it was the 1st smash bros game with online. That alone had me hyped out of my pants. Fortunately, I wear shorts under my pants all the time! The lack of "competition" of multiplayer games (specifically with online) was a big reason Brawl sold so well. It wasn't until Mario Kart Wii (with its' superior online to Brawl) that there were 2 quality multiplayer games (with online) on the Wii. Since Brawl came out, though, we've gotten quite a few of those kinds of games.

 

[Wizzrobe]

What does join date matter?
Join date depends on when they find SmashBOARDS, not Smash BROS.

If they discuss a lot in the Brawl forums and have a join date of around 09 or higher, they are most likely solely Brawl players.

And Btw I almost never see people who discuss in the melee boards discuss in the Brawl boards and vice versia.

 

[BirthNote]

How about a Naughty Dog-styled Crash Bandikirby?

 

[Johnknight1]

People join in February because they are FRIGGEN FABULOUS!

ool088: :grimer:

 

[Wizzrobe]

People join in February because they are FRIGGEN FABULOUS!

:grimer: :brgrimer:

I'm only 1 month ahead, am I fabulous?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Most Brawl players have a join date of 08 or higher and you can just tell when watching people discuss that most of them never played Melee competitively. Maybe when Brawl first came out some Melee players played Brawl competitvely but a lot of them went back to Melee because its their original game and its overall a more competitive game.

That doesn't make it overall more competitive. However, you did give the proof that there's more players that MAY have never played Melee competitively... since not all of them go to Smash boards.

MK still made the game unbalanced, as did tripping. Even though MK made a lot of players step their game up, the same could happen with a Melee player if they want to be one of the best. And people kept complaining about MK so they decided to ban him.

Melee doesn't have any character on MK's level, so no the chances of that happening wouldn't work. Likewise, Sheik was probably the best equivalent, and guess what happened? People got better. The difference is that a lot didn't switch to Sheik. So I blame it honestly more on the players doing it wrong.

And the things that are bad about Melee that your are mentioning are so minor, and don't affect the game at all when it's played competitively.

Which is about how much tripping does.

Lot of people say that Infinites ruin the competitiveness because they are too good and inescapable. At least combos aren't as good, are harder to do, and easier to escape due to DI.

That'd be great if Brawl has combos. So we have to use the equivalent of them. Likewise, whether they're easier or not to escape isn't the point anyway. That's just part of the game. Brawl is more simple than Melee, but that still doesn't make it less competitive.

Regardless, Brawl still has a lot more overall characters and playstyles that Melee severely lacks, which is just one of the reasons it gets played more.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The one thing I can safely say I like about Melee more are stages. Specifically Brinstar Depths, Fountain of Dreams, Fourside, and Great Bay.

 

[Wizzrobe]

That doesn't make it overall more competitive. However, you did give the proof that there's more players that MAY have never played Melee competitively... since not all of them go to Smash boards.



Melee doesn't have any character on MK's level, so no the chances of that happening wouldn't work. Likewise, Sheik was probably the best equivalent, and guess what happened? People got better. The difference is that a lot didn't switch to Sheik. So I blame it honestly more on the players doing it wrong.



Which is about how much tripping does.



That'd be great if Brawl has combos. So we have to use the equivalent of them. Likewise, whether they're easier or not to escape isn't the point anyway. That's just part of the game. Brawl is more simple than Melee, but that still doesn't make it less competitive.

Regardless, Brawl still has a lot more overall characters and playstyles that Melee severely lacks, which is just one of the reasons it gets played more.

The minor stuff you mentioned that was bad about Melee is not the equivalent of tripping in Brawl because it doesn't actually worsen the competitive gameplay. Clones aren't that bad, and Melee has a good amount of character variances. Just not as much as Brawl cause obviously they want to add more content to sequels and the best way to do that is to add more characters. Are you going to say Brawl doesn't have good character variance when Sm4sh comes out and has more characters than Brawl?

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, a debate today that I was not a part of.

And to whoever was worried about me jumping in over the Isaac/Matthew discussion, why?
I really don't care for either, nor Golden Sun as a whole. I only feel that Camelot would try to push for Matthew being that they are marketing Dark Dawn as the start of the "main" series. So shame on you for accusing me of giving a big f***.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I was watching Nostalgia Critic, talking about the movie "Moonwalker"

There should be Mii's in smash so I can have a "Match" between Jackson and Ness/ Lucas