New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Metal Overlord]

Actually, I think Mario Kart Wii did sell 4 times the amount as Mario Kart Double Dash. 32 million for MK Wii as opposed to 7 million for Double Dash

Mario Kart Wii started getting bundled with the Wii here in the US after a certain point, but yeah

 

[Disfunkshunal]

How well has mk7 done so far?

 

[Johnknight1]

Fio John are you saying judgement would a "5" 90% percent of the time always dealing let's say 16 dmg and a constant kb growth with regular base kb while the other 10% it would be a "9" with let's say 30 dmg and a huge base kb? Because at first it sounded like you wanted to keep all the numbers but make it a reliable move which contradicts itself.

If we're talking about Judgment being a slow kill move, 20% sounds fine. If we're talking about Judgment as a regular fast move, it should do about 12%.

As for your model, that's pretty much what I am saying. Let's have a 10-25% chance of doing 10-20% more damage, stun, and/or knock back, and a 1-2% chance of doing 100-200% more damage, stun, and/or knock back (maybe make it come out a bit slower, too). Not everyone may like it, but at least it makes sense. Quite frankly, the current model doesn't!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I grew up with Melee. Heck, Melee was the first video game I EVER PLAYED. But I honestly find Brawl better. Age has nothing to do with it. It's personal preference. No data necessary. Completely opinion.

On an unrelated note, I recently played Boss Battles in Brawl to Uprising's Boss Fight 1 music. It was awesome.

 

[Metal Overlord]

MK7 sold 5.2 million (worldwide)

Source: It's in the same article that I just used to prove that MK Wii sold 32 million units

 

[Lukingordex]

Actually, I think Mario Kart Wii did sell 4 times the amount as Mario Kart Double Dash. 32 million for MK Wii as opposed to 7 million for Double Dash

Mario Kart Wii started getting bundled with the Wii here in the US after a certain point, but yeah

It´s because the Wii has become a lot more popular than the GameCube.(correct me if I am wrong.)

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I grew up with Melee. Heck, Melee was the first video game I EVER PLAYED. But I honestly find Brawl better. Age has nothing to do with it. It's personal preference. No data necessary. Completely opinion.

On an unrelated note, I recently played Boss Battles in Brawl to Uprising's Boss Fight 1 music. It was awesome.

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who you using, GiantBreadbug.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Correct you if you wrong? Lol, the Wii has become WAY more popular than the GCN ever was

 

[BirthNote]

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

I did it ONCE, and that was years ago. I played it a few months back, and I'm surprised I ever beat it before.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Who you using, GiantBreadbug.

I seem to have the best luck with Captain Falcon. Dat F-Air.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Fixed for ya. And dude you never said "almost" which is why I said you were making overgeneralizations. I still think you are minimalizing camping in melee but since I don't play competitive melee I can't back it up with any personal experience.

So John are you saying judgement would a "5" 90% percent of the time always dealing let's say 16 dmg and a constant kb growth with regular base kb while the other 10% it would be a "9" with let's say 30 dmg and a huge base kb? Because at first it sounded like you wanted to keep all the numbers but make it a reliable move which contradicts itself.





Yes, I did look on page 6828 I think

 

[Johnknight1]

"The Wii did 4 times better but Smash didn't"
If this was true, than all Gamecube sequels should do 4 times better. Go look at sales and none of the Gamecube game sequels did 4 times better. Not Mario Galaxy. Not Twilight Princess. Not Metroid Prime 3. Not Mario Kart Wii. What you are saying doesn't happen and no one expects it too.

Yet all but one of those games you mentioned sold more than the previous versions of games on the Gamecube.[COLLAPSE="A lot of boring sales talk that proves my point that Wii titles generally sold better than Gamecube titles:"]Sunshine sold about 5 million units, while Galaxy sold about 10 million units. Galaxy 2 also sold about 7 million units. NEW Super Mario Bros. also sold about 26 million units.

Twilight Princess sold less than 2 million copies on the Gamecube, and about 6 million copies on the Wii. The Wind Waker sold about 3 million copies, and Skyward Sword has already sold a few hundred thousand units more than that the Wind Waker. This was done in less than a month after Skyward Swords' release.

Mario Kart Double Dash sold about 7 million units. Mario Kart Wii sold about 32 million units. That's more than 4 times as many copies, which fits my model.

The only case where the sales of a Nintendo series you mentioned had relatively the same sales or went down was with the Metroid Prime games. Metroid Prime sold about 2 million, Metroid Prime 2 sold a little less than a million units, while Metroid Prime has sold a bit over a million units.[/COLLAPSE]Again, Brawl only sold about 2 1/2 million units more copies than Melee on a console that sold 4 times as many units. That's not that huge of a difference.

Besides that, a lot of Brawl's sales are a direct result of Melee's positive fan reaction, which in turn a lot of that rooted from people learning of Smash through Smash 64 by playing it at friends' house/word of mouth, and Nintendo hyping Melee more than any game on the Gamecube title for the console's launch. The former is how I got into smash.

 

[---]

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

I usually use Meta Knight for that. Just spam his N-air and air dodge.

A good trick I found is to go for the harder bosses first, like Duon/Porky/Rayquaza so you don't have to restart as much when you start using hearts up or deal with them at high damage. I once even had an extra heart left over to use on Tabuu.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Speaking of Double Dash, anyone else here want a Double Dash 2?

 

[Johnknight1]

No. I thought Double Dash was the worst game in the series (followed by Mario Kart Wii).

I can tell this argument is over since you can only argue specific points. Yet the principle still stands. The argument was about Melee being more successful than Brawl, or, more specificly, saying if Brawl was successful. These facts remian
1)Brawl is the best selling fighting game
2)Brawl has sold more than Melee and 64 (and Melee sold worse than both in Japan)
3)Brawl is still played a lot
4)Brawl still sells for a lot.

Let me quote the 1st part of your post.

I can tell this argument is over since you can only argue specific points.

You aren't even arguing with what I was saying. You are just listing facts that do not prove people like Brawl more than Melee. You are just proving it sold more copies.

Also, your Japan argument means nothing. It's just 1 country, and it's not America. That is where most of the sales and profits for Nintendo games and products comes from.

Regardless, you assume better sales = a better game and happier fans. That isn't necessarily true. Resident Evil 5 sold more than Resident Evil 4. However, most of the people bought Resident Evil 5 because of Resident Evil 4. If people really liked Resident Evil 5, they'll buy Resident Evil 6.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Double Dash is my absolute favorite

 

[Johnknight1]

I like the team mechanic, but the game was too party-ish for me. You could go from 1st to last at any moment because of the broken items that were often unavoidable.

 

[yani]

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

Charizard > Rock Smash.

It took me awhile to do it on Very Hard, but that helped me figure out how/when to strike/dodge. Intense took me two tries.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I seem to have the best luck with Captain Falcon. Dat F-Air.

Interesting choice. However... I would suggest Fox, MK, or Charizard. Last one's got really powerful moves, plus, he can switch out to the other Pokemon just in case.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

I got immensely lucky with Kirby. TWICE.

Kirby vs. Porky: He was blasting lasers from midair. I accidently hit one, and immediately screamed, "OH ****!" I mashed the L button to air dodge, and I GRABBED THE TOP OF PORKY AND TECH ROLLED ON TOP OF HIM. WHILE I WAS GOING THROUGH HIM.

Kirby vs. Tabuu: I was about to kill him, and a Bob-omb spawned. So I picked it up. Then he hit me offscreen. I threw the Bob-omb as a last-ditch effort, and he WARPED INTO IT. I barely killed him.

 

[Shorts]

Because Sakurai didn't want the baby players to have their feelings hurt.

This is for you Kuma

 

[Wizzrobe]

I didn't take it into account. Why? It's irrelevant completely. Age is not taken into account as long as Melee, which apparently has a huge amount of competitive popularity... is still played quite a lot. Players play both. In fact, at the most, it slightly boosts how much Brawl is played, but not on a huge scale. GameCubes and Melee are extremely cheap. Wiis were very hard to find for quite a long time. There's a reason it still has a huge amount of playtime over Brawl. There's one factor you forgot: Characters. Some people prefer Melee's Roster and not much of Brawl's. I'm one of those people. There's also easy of using the Action Replay for Melee for fun.



No, they won't. At all. Many people enjoy completely different aspects. Brawl competitively has a ton of depth and things that Melee doesn't. And vice versa. They're different games, with some similar basic concepts, but it is quite different still. Same with the first game.

How is it irrelevant? I can guarantee you that if Brawl and Melee were both released at the same time, Melee would have a bigger competitive scene. And most people who have never owned a Gamecube before, (especially kids today) aren't going to buy a gamecube when there are modern day consoles out there like the 360, Wii, and ps3. And Melee has a good amount of characters, not as many as Brawl but still a good amount. That one aspect alone probably isn't going to change their mind about which game to play competitvely if they truly understand both game mechanics and physics.

I know how both Brawl and Melee work very well. And I know that they are both very different games but Melee has basically everything Brawl does, plus more. Melee doesn't have as big of emphasis on being patient as Brawl does, but Melee has combos, a faster pace and more exciting things. Maybe someone prefers the patience style over fast paced and combo style, but most people would prefer the Melee style. And I go on the Brawl boards all the time and a lot of Brawl players complain about aspects of Brawl like how it is campy and slow.


AND @MEtal- I wasn't to crazy about Double Dash since the drift didn't really give you a boost. I haven't played it much but it looks like there is less skilled involved in Double Dash compared to other Mario Kart games. Now if they fix that issue then I would love to see it because a 2 team aspect could work great.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Well I'll just be trying these suggestions right now.

 

[Shorts]

Did Sakurai admit he was approached for SmashDS? Or did he... he's said SOMETHING about doing a SmashDS.... I think Oasis knows what he said...

Nevermind, he was APPROACHED about doing Smash 3DS OR Wii U

 

[Lukingordex]

Speaking of Boss Battles, someone please tell me how I'm supposed to beat it on Intense.

I just cannot do it. I can get to Tabuu with a little grunting and cursing, but sheesh, I just cannot beat it.

There are some videos on youtube from persons who beat it on intense with no damage.

Its amazing.

 

[Wizzrobe]

There are some videos on youtube from persons who beat it on intense with no damage.

Its amazing.

[glow] Falcon ftw! thats who I used When I took no damage on Intense.[/glow]

 

[Johnknight1]

Sakurai was asked about Smash DS, and he said he's thought about it, but didn't have any plans to do it. He did sound intrigued by the idea of it, though.

Obviously Sakurai was interested in a handheld smash, which is why he's making Smash 3DS. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Smash 3DS ended up being better than Smash Wii U!

Iwata: (laughs)

As far as brawl being successful, it is. Only an idiot can't see it. What ever they did worked. I'll take a brief moment to clear up some of the specific things.

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying Melee is probably more popular than Brawl amongst owners of both games. Melee was also successful too, and much of Brawl's success financially came from the positive fan reaction to Melee. Other added factors are new popular character additions (specifically Sonic), friends and family members of owners of Smash 64 and Melee (and Brawl) buying Brawl because of positive reactions to playing it or from word of mouth, and the Wii selling better than the Gamecube.

 

[Lukingordex]

[glow] Falcon ftw! thats who I used When I took no damage on Intense.[/glow]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How is it irrelevant? I can guarantee you that if Brawl and Melee were both released at the same time, Melee would have a bigger competitive scene. And most people who have never owned a Gamecube before, (especially kids today) aren't going to buy a gamecube when there are modern day consoles out there like the 360, Wii, and ps3. And Melee has a good amount of characters, not as many as Brawl but still a good amount. That one aspect alone probably isn't going to change their mind about which game to play competitvely if they truly understand both game mechanics and physics.

If they were released at the same time, there's absolutely no way to know which games would be more competitive. They're more likely to be an even split due to their exact differences and characters. It's honestly irrelevant.

I know how both Brawl and Melee work very well. And I know that they are both very different games but Melee has basically everything Brawl does, plus more. Melee doesn't have as big of emphasis on being patient as Brawl does, but Melee has combos, a faster pace and more exciting things. Maybe someone prefers the patience style over fast paced and combo style, but most people would prefer the Melee style. And I go on the Brawl boards all the time and a lot of Brawl players complain about aspects of Brawl like how it is campy and slow.

Brawl does not have everything Melee has or vice versa. Melee doesn't have footstool jumps, super insane courses, MK, the same characters, tripping(only bad one), the same moves or a playable dragon(like) character who can fly either.

No, they are not the same or similar. And exciting is completely subjective. I actually thought Brawl had a lot more exciting aspects. Combos, I agree, but that's what we got infinites for. Speed? Brawl isn't really that slow as you're making it. I like campy gameplay myself. Why? It's an interesting defense play. I do wish it was a bit more offensive, but honestly, still doesn't bother me.

BTW, I like Melee more, how about that?

 

[Johnknight1]

Regardless, I think Melee's competitive community will last longer. Heavily populated areas like the Eastern United States, the Southwest, Southern Canada, parts of Europe (I'm not sure which parts because I don't know what countries people are from!), Japan, and California produce tons of new smashers for both games.

However, the reason why I think Melee's competitive community will last longer is it has steadily gotten bigger. Another reason is a that a lot of people who quit playing Brawl competitively end up playing Melee competitively. I was one of those (although I always had a massive interest in competitive Melee, and I've always known how to play competitive Melee).

Edit: Still, both games' competitive scene grow better and faster together than apart.

 

[Arcadenik]

Of course not. The stable of Sony characters is so absolutely lame, only fanboys will actually play it. Fat Princess? Really?

Well, there are bound to be some WTF characters in any crossover fighting games... anyway, here's the list of Sony's first-party franchises.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I would draw everyone's attention, once again, to the fact that the Sony Smash Bros. game is going to have a large 3rd party presence. This has been pounded into the hype surrounding the game.

Also, if there is no Ape Escape character, I will cry.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Yes, I did look on page 6828 I think

...You edited that in =P and it was actually on page 2561. In my defense, you said "all" in all caps rather than almost which took the emphasis off of almost.

Ok John, it seems what we had was a failure to communicate to each other effectively. I would like judgement like that.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would draw everyone's attention, once again, to the fact that the Sony Smash Bros. game is going to have a large 3rd party presence. This has been pounded into the hype surrounding the game.

Also, if there is no Ape Escape character, I will cry.

Where are the third-party characters in Sony Smash Bros? The characters you see in that game are actually Sony first-party characters. Take a look at this list.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Arc
That's a lot of franchises I don't care about!

Spoiler

Iwata: laughs

Still, Ape Escape, LittleBigPlanet, Uncharted, Jak (and Daxter), Sly Cooper, Kill Zone, inFAMOUS, Resistance, Ratchet (and Clank) are great series that deserve playable characters in the game.

It would also be pretty funny if Everquest got a character in the game!

Seriously though, Sony has quite a number of pretty good 1st and 2nd party series going.

@ funk
I got what you said, and agreed. Regular attack = 80% of the time. Slight stronger version = 18% of the time. Super ridiculously stronger version of the attack = 2% of the time.

 

[Pachinkosam]

I know i always ask this question.

any big news >.<

 

[Wizzrobe]

If they were released at the same time, there's absolutely no way to know which games would be more competitive. They're more likely to be an even split due to their exact differences and characters. It's honestly irrelevant.



Brawl does not have everything Melee has or vice versa. Melee doesn't have footstool jumps, super insane courses, MK, the same characters, tripping(only bad one), the same moves or a playable dragon(like) character who can fly either.

No, they are not the same or similar. And exciting is completely subjective. I actually thought Brawl had a lot more exciting aspects. Combos, I agree, but that's what we got infinites for. Speed? Brawl isn't really that slow as you're making it. I like campy gameplay myself. Why? It's an interesting defense play. I do wish it was a bit more offensive, but honestly, still doesn't bother me.

BTW, I like Melee more, how about that?

If both Melee and Brawl were released at the same time with the current metagame discovered instantly, then I can definitely say that Melee would have a much much larger competitve community. It's just that There is a 6 year difference between Melee and Brawl's releases so most of the Brawl players never really played Melee competitively or never really played it at all.

And the footstools and tripping are the only thing that Melee doesn't have. And footstools is the only positive thing Melee doesn't have. tripping and MK are bad things because it makes the game more unbalanced, Melee doesn't have them. And Melee had some pretty cool stages you know. And besides if the game is played competitively, then the insane stage would be banned anyway so that doesn't matter.

And the people saying Brawl was slow, were the Brawl players on the Brawl boards. I can ask almost any Brawl player if Brawl is slow and they would say yes. (or at least compared to Melee) And if you like camping, then you are part of the small amount who actually do like it. because a majority of the Brawl community don't really like camping. And a lot of people on the infinite grabs discussion say that infinite grabs worsen the games competitiveness.



[glow]And @disfunshinal- I have no idea why you are talking about pages in the 2000's but it is page 6828. And its the first post on that page and it doesn't say ANYTHING about it being edited because it wasn't[/glow]

 

[Arcadenik]

I know i always ask this question.

any big news >.<

Big news is that Sakurai Twittered that Meowth will be playable in Smash 4 and that one of his palette swaps is based on Sakurai's cat.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh my god, another one of those ugly Brawl Vs. Melee arguments again?

Thank god I went to see Cabin In The Woods in theaters instead of having to put up with this. Scary movie that I highly recommend.

Anyway, I'm off for the rest of the night. When morning comes, I expect Brawl Vs. Melee to be over.