New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Johnknight1]

LOL Oasis, ironically I was just PM'ing someone on Youtube the same thing. The dude actually thinks Ridley is too big.

He also thinks that Ghirahim, Impa, and Demise should and will replace Ganondorf.

Here's his first message to me (I cut out all the non-character discussion talk and smart parts):

Just a few notes(no insults intended): If you look at 64 and Melee and then Brawl, all the characters from the first are staples to the series, and we're almost always guaranteed to see them.

Also, Ridley couldn't be playable, as he's like 2 or 3 times the size of samus. Though he is playable if you can hack using homebrew/texture hacks. Plus Ridley and Meta Ridley became bosses in Subspace Emissary

A thing about non-nintendo characters, they're tough to get, Sonic and Snake are the reason the game was delayed, twice.

Here's his 2nd message to me (in it's entirety):

No. Only the original 12 are guaranteed to return. Only the Melee Veterans have a decent chance of making it back in in comparison to the Brawl Newcomers, but with The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword I don't see Zelda or Ganondorf making it back. The closest we'll get to them is Impa and Ghirahim(or very unlikely Demise).

The game WAS delayed twice because of Snake and Sonic being added. Mewtwo, Roy, Dixie Kong, and Dr. Mario were not intended to be part of the game. They were in there as reference material for the team building the game. Note: I mentioned the Forbidden 7, and he dismissed it here. I also told him Snake had nothing to do with delays, other than balancing the whole roster and putting the finishing touches on Sonic.

Also, what are you talking about? Ridley is much bigger than Bowser. He's at least twice his size. Ridley is way too large to be a playable character. In the original Metroid he wasn't as big due to limitations of the system, and he was retconned in the remake to be much larger. The same held true for Kraid, being not so much bigger than Samus, but in all future appearances he is colossal.

 

[Shorts]

LOL Oasis, ironically I was just PM'ing someone on Youtube the same thing. The dude actually thinks Ridley is too big.

Gross

You care that much?

 

[Oasis_S]

Is this what you would call an acceptable size and all-around look for Ridley?

Looks too small and too ugly.

 

[Johnknight1]

Gross

You care that much?

Well if I didn't, he'd be blabbering about stuff without sources of information. I figure if I use sources to counter him, he'll do the same.

If someone didn't do the same for me back when I came to SmashBoards, I would be spewing nonsense to all of you right now.

Ironically the people that slapped me with such knowledge were Diddy Kong, some other Diddy Kong lover (Xeno something was his name I think; his avatar was Diddy's DKC2 portrait), Homelessvagrant (my boi I ran a clan with!), and Wiseguy! (and his conspiracy crazy character thread!) XD

Edit: Here's his entire 3rd response (minus a non-character part):

I know Ridley was smaller in the original. Anyways, Ridley won't be added as a playable character especially after his boss status in Brawl. Ridley being playable in future installments is like how fans used to want to play as Master Hand.

And in terms of characters guaranteed to make it in, the original 12 ARE guaranteed to make it in. They've been in every single game, and if they weren't there would be an uproar by the fans. *And then he says Ganondorf and Zelda probably won't be playable!*
...
Now I say Ganondorf won't be in the next one because Ganondorf hasn't appeared in a Zelda game since Twilight Princess 6 years ago. I say Zelda won't be in because she has absolutely no combat in Skyward Sword. The most she does that can be flexed into combat is shooting her harp to Link during Ghirahim's assault on the Temple of Time. I say Impa will be in as she is the closest to Sheik.

Now for size, Bowser varies in size due to different amounts of power he gains. In reference to Pokemon, Pokemon can be bigger than the Pokedex size. You could take Ash's Noctowl for example. It's much smaller than the typical Noctowl, so Pikachu and Squirtle in Brawl can be bigger than what the Pokedex says.

If he sends another message like this, I'm pulling out of this conversation!

 

[Oasis_S]

I saw a Youtube roster that included some guy from a Trauma Center game among other dumb ideas. Even worse is that it was in a RESPONSE video, so the guy responding to this actually thought it was legitimately worth debating.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

He also thinks that Ghirahim

Whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe this guy ain't so bad. :D

 

[Johnknight1]

I once saw a Brawl roster prediction video that said "f*** Diddy Kong" and then showed Waluigi, and said he was a Shoe-in.

It was Strangely Amusing!

@ Holder
Who in the heck would ever want Ghirahim to replace Ganondorf=???
The better question is, who in the heck would ever think Ghirahim will replace Ganondorf=???

I mean Diddy saying dumb crap like Impa replacing Sheik as a likely possibility is pretty crazy, but saying Ghrahim, Demise, and Impa will replace established characters Sheik (well in smash anyways), Zelda (the name of the franchise!), and Ganondorf (the main baddy) is utter foolishness!

Final Edit: Edit: Good night y'all. I is tired and have school.
Sadly my Spring Break came and went. At least I got work done.
I probably won't be on as often. I'd be surprised if I posted half as much as I did over Spring Break.

A Friend First and a Smasher Second,
~His Knightliness Himself~,
-Johnknight1 Watson

P.S.: This song makes an excellent exit and should be in all future Smash Bros. games. Here's an official remix of it, too.

Also, this song (although completely unrelated to video games) is what I am getting sleepy too. Simply beautiful. This (also unrelated to the topic) song is great to fall asleep to.

Anyways, you've been good, I've been Johnknight1, and you will need to wait until the Super Awesome train comes around the next time for more!

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Baha I was just kidding, I just enjoy the rather rare Ghirahim love. xD

 

[Diddy Kong]

And yet S/Zamus and PT don't transform in the same way.

But Pokemon Trainer and Zelda do.

Besides, a Zelda / Impa tagteam would work just as well as them being separate. It´s one of the reasons it´s imo a much better idea than to just have Zelda / Sheik.

Also, Demise as a Ganondorf replacement isn´t TOO BAD of an idea actually if you think about it. At least Demise would have the moveset we all wanted Ganondorf to have since Melee. I am not saying that it SHOULD happen, as Ganon(dorf) is easily one of the most well known Nintendo villains and holds high importance in the Zelda series. Sheik doesn´t, and she´s´a side character to Zelda, so she is MUCH easier to replace. Hence is why I promote Impa, and not Demise. Even though I would totally wanna play as him! Personally, I´d take him over Captain Ganondorf any day of the week. But Brawl was kinda unfortunate for Ganondorf so...

Now Queerahim replacing Zelda is where the madness starts.

 

[Oasis_S]

But Pokemon Trainer and Zelda do.

Nope.

I guess I should have made it clearer.

"And yet S/Zamus and PT don't transform in the same way AS ZELDA/SHEIK."


Though I don't quite remember the discussion. It was probably dumb anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well the Pokemon dont transform in the first place, they switch out lol. Done with their Down B move, just like Zelda / Sheik. I dont see much of a difference tbh.

 

[Oasis_S]

It's similar, yeah, but it does have its own NUANCES and what not. Stamina, forced switch on KO, can't switch in the air come to mind. But no one would say PT is like Shelda or vice versa. PT has his gimmick and Shelda has hers. It's probably not really what Kuma was suggesting, but it almost sounded like "It's okay to remove their transformation, because PT will take up the slack on the uniqueness quota."

But I think it all comes down to there just being no good reason to remove her transformation. It gives the characters a certain bit of flavor, and that's always appreciated. Even if most people don't use it, it's not like having that option hurts. And the idea that those two will be better balanced if their transformation is removed is silly. Ignoring that the competitive player's idea of balance is silly in itself, it's not like you can't just PROPERLY BALANCE THEM AND KEEP THE TRANSFORMATION. Separating them really isn't any more than a "just cause" idea.

And let's not fool ourselves. Adding Impa isn't going to BRING ANYTHING NEW to the roster. Zelda will still transform into her, and she will play exactly like Sheik. Trufax.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Not trufax as I've been saying for months.

Impa could play very different to Sheik in terms of moves, yet still be the agile character of the two (thus: different moves, similar playstyle still). At least the specials could be different, but her fighting pose in the famous cutscene suggests she would have a whole different fighting style. More of an Asian style of fighting, like a monk with the palm pushing and stuff. There's not a whole lot of characters to choose from in the Nintendo universe who'd fit that style, and they made it work before by giving Sheik ninja-like moves out of the blue in Melee.

And depening on how big the roster will be, there might even be enough room to have both Zelda / Sheik and (Toon) Zelda / Impa even. Though as of from now, I see Skyward Sword Link and Zelda / Impa as the more likely scenario at this point. E3 might change that though if they show us some Zelda news.

*removed censor dodging image*

Impa 4 Smash!

 

[Oasis_S]

She COULD be different, but you know that we won't have BOTH Impa and Sheik, and if Sheik is removed, then Impa will be her replacement and play exactly like Sheik so nothing is lost.

That's just how it goes. That's life.

 

[Opelucid]

Diddy Kong.. I seriously don't see why you support Impa.

 

[Arcadenik]

Let's just add Masked Link and Tingle instead of Ghirahim and Demise. We know Majora's Mask 3D will happen eventually.

 

[Opelucid]

Let's just add Masked Link and Tingle instead of Ghirahim and Demise. We know Majora's Mask 3D will happen eventually.

I don't know about Demise or Tingle.. but I'd actually like to see Masked Link get in he'd be an interesting character.

 

[Arcadenik]

Masked Link would be awesome. It would be like having Young Link back except, you know... You cannot play as Young Link. Instead you play as the nimble lightweight Deku Link, the powerful heavyweight Goron Link, and the all-around middleweight Zora Link... With Fierce Deity Link as his Final Smash. That would be a nice way to declone a child Link.

And of course Tingle would be the Jigglypuff of the Zelda series, thanks to his balloon. He would be the rejected Balloon Fight concept revived, since he wouldn't be useless without his balloon unlike the Balloon Fighter. He would likely have Rupee- and possibly fairy-based moves plus the bombs. He wouldn't necessarily represent the Zelda series with the Triforce icon... Instead he would take the Yoshi route and represent his own series with the Rupee icon.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind losing Toon Link if we got Masked Link to replace him. The idea is just too good, even for a Toon Link fan like me. I'd love to see Ghirahim as well, but there's no way I think he should replace Ganondorf.

I also could possibly see Impa as an interesting character, but she's taking the back seat to many others right now. I would prefer her over Tingle, though.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Every time Diddy brings up Impa, I wanna put up a Numel/Slowpoke pic because it's so mindless and slow.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy Kong.. I seriously don't see why you support Impa.

Good thing is that I do.

Seriously though, it's the perfect way to refresh the Zelda / Sheik concept imo. They could do a lot of things to a Zelda / Impa tagteam, due to them actually being two different characters. Interswitching between moves would be a possibility for example, and switching out between them could be much faster than has been done with Zelda and Sheik, as no transformation animation would be needed.

Also, she'd probably add in a new fighting style, and I liked her a lot in Skyward Sword. And I myself expect to see her return in future Zelda games as a more frequent character, so that's amongst the reasons I want her in.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Tri-Hy, the main reason why is because well... he's unoriginal. Basically just Luigi and Wario put together. And also, people think that the only reason he was created in Mario Tennis was so that Wario could have a partner. So people think he's useless, as well

Personally, even though he isn't really a good choice for Smash, I like him. He reminds me of Dastardly from Dastardly and Muttley, one of my favorite cartoons

Waluigi will get his chance some day. But for now, he'll just have to stay at the sidelines.

Anyway, it is pretty amusing that Waluigi and Dastardly are similar in many areas.

 

[vicgur]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind losing Toon Link if we got Masked Link to replace him. The idea is just too good, even for a Toon Link fan like me. I'd love to see Ghirahim as well, but there's no way I think he should replace Ganondorf.

I also could possibly see Impa as an interesting character, but she's taking the back seat to many others right now. I would prefer her over Tingle, though.

Totally agree with the Toon Link part. Even though Toon Link is my favorite Link, ever. Masked Link is just better. Playing as a Zora once again? Hell to the **** yeah!!

I would like to see Ghirahim, too. But I don't really believe in his chances as playable character material. All I can say is that he is Skyward Sword's Zant.

And I simply don't get all the love Impa is getting. Okay, she is almost a major character in Skyward Swords, and she did some sick moves against Ghirahim and all. But does that really make her playable character material...?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Totally agree with the Toon Link part. Even though Toon Link is my favorite Link, ever. Masked Link is just better. Playing as a Zora once again? Hell to the **** yeah!!

Agreed. I just wish Sakurai would ignore his "clone rule" with Toon Link for this. I expect Toon Link/Young Link to have the same specials, though.

I would like to see Ghirahim, too. But I don't really believe in his chances as playable character material. All I can say is that he is Skyward Sword's Zant.

To be fair, Zant was fairly flat. Mostly due to them shoehorning Ganondorf in, so he probably didn't have a good chance to become more interesting. He was still more interesting than TP Ganondorf, by far. As for Ghirahim, I only know he's a lot more interesting than Zant. I have to play the game/watch a playthrough to really talk about him, though.

And I simply don't get all the love Impa is getting. Okay, she is almost a major character in Skyward Swords, and she did some sick moves against Ghirahim and all. But does that really make her playable character material...?

No, it really doesn't. That's grasping at straws at this point. I think she might not be completely looked over again, but I can finally see her getting a trophy, and if in later games, she plays another major role... she could become playable.(but very doubtful in place of Sheik, although an alt. costume of Sheik isn't bad)

 

[Big-Cat]

Diddy Kong.. I seriously don't see why you support Impa.

I do. She finally seemed like a cool character in Skyward Sword. It's that simple.

BTW, finished KIU last night. I can see both Impa and Palutena having specials that act as personal smoke bombs. Put left-right mixups (as opposed to high-low) in the game and it's an evil tool.

@Diddy
Don't forget ninjas are Asian too. It would've been clearer to say that Impa's fighting style, like Lucarios, could be influenced by Chinese martial arts. That being said, her palm thrust in SS does resemble Nina's Blond Bomb and her fighting style Aikido, a Japanese fighting style.

 

[Cobalsh]

I'm neutral on Impa. But, like my signature says, I'm all for Rool.

 

[Deleted member]

I know we aren't on this subject, but I keep seeing people use the "two movie" argument and the "he's Masuda's favorite Pokemon" argument for Victini, and I'm sick of it.

The only reason Victini had two movies in the first place was because of Reshiram and Zekrom, by which two movies were made where the dragons have swapped roles.

And being Masuda's favorite Pokemon? The main reason people use this BS of an argument is because of Pichu, but Pichu wasn't included in Melee because of Masuda.
Being a favorite of Satoshi Tajiri, the creator of Pokemon, didn't help Poliwhirl in the slightest.

 

[vicgur]

I really like Victini, but that may be because his name reminds me of mine [Victini -> Victory -> Victor].
I'd love to see the lil' guy on Sm4sh. But I'll admit that's my bias.

Spoiler

I also don't like Genesect and don't care about Zoroark...

To be fair, Zant was fairly flat. Mostly due to them shoehorning Ganondorf in, so he probably didn't have a good chance to become more interesting. He was still more interesting than TP Ganondorf, by far. As for Ghirahim, I only know he's a lot more interesting than Zant. I have to play the game/watch a playthrough to really talk about him, though.

Yes, Ghirahim is a thousand times better than Zant. I try to think he might get a chance, but Brawl has made me pessimistic. Not to mention he is one of those Zelda one-hit wonders. He is probably never gonna appear in another Zelda game again, because that's how Zelda works. It's a whole new game with new characters in every game. Few non-main characters are repeated in different games [I can only think of Tingle and Impa], so they are forgotten in the sands of time. Some will want to see them again, but sadly, Nintendo doesn't do much fan-service like that. [We, of all people, should know]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really like Victini, but that may be because his name reminds me of mine [Victini -> Victory -> Victor].
I'd love to see the lil' guy on Sm4sh. But I'll admit that's my bias.

Spoiler

I also don't like Genesect and don't care about Zoroark...

Genesect is still fairly more original than Victini is, though. The only thing he has in common with any other Pokemon is that his backstory has similarities to Mewtwo's, and it's not even the same. Victini honestly just feels like another one of the similar "Small Cute Critters that represents emotions/etc." Seems boring and repetitive to me. But eh.

Yes, Ghirahim is a thousand times better than Zant. I try to think he might get a chance, but Brawl has made me pessimistic. Not to mention he is one of those Zelda one-hit wonders. He is probably never gonna appear in another Zelda game again, because that's how Zelda works. It's a whole new game with new characters in every game. Few non-main characters are repeated in different games [I can only think of Tingle and Impa], so they are forgotten in the sands of time. Some will want to see them again, but sadly, Nintendo doesn't do much fan-service like that. [We, of all people, should know]

A lot of other characters get repeated. Epona, Malon, most enemies, Vaati has 3 games under his belt(and is the only one who could be called a Main Villain outside of Ganon/Ganondorf. Keep in mind he also appeared as many times as Ganondorf. )

Anyway, as I said, I gotta watch/play the game enough to get a grasp. Not that I don't believe you or anything like that, of course.

Off to work!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why wouldn't Impa be playable character material if Sheik made it before her? She did far less than Impa, and Impa is a lot more re-occuring in Zelda. That Sheik made it in Brawl had A LOT to do with the scrapped character model for Twilight Princess. But the thing is, Sheik didn't return in Zelda games released after TP, most noticable Skyward Sword, where Impa pretty much took over the role. And did even more. Only thing Sheik has going for her is that she made it back in Brawl. But I don't see why she should return in Smash if her role in Zelda is over.

 

[Linkshot]

Hm, Trauma Center..yes, I could see Derek Stiles being in.
I feel like Sheik and Ganondorf will stay because of OoT3D. Toon Link might get replaced by Ghirahim.

Actually wait.

Why wouldn't we have 5 per franchise in this installment? The roster will be getting bigger, after all. Even so, I feel like Toon Link will get the push, Ghirahim will get looked at, and then probably Impa as a 5th. A 5th Mario rep? Hard to say, though my guess is to ride the Super Mario 3D Land craze and throw in Tanooki Suit as a 5th rep. Lucario will be scrapped, obviously. Zoroark will take its place, and a 5th Pokemon? I'd have to ride on Clefairy. Clefairy was the most popular Pokemon before the anime cropped up.

Remember that these are my predictions for what Sakurai will want.

 

[Eaode]

hmmm, neutral on Impa

I would say my smash 4 wishlist is almost identical to my brawl wishlist (lmao)

-Ridley
-Vaati (longshot, but I love him soooo much)
-King K. Rool

 

[vicgur]

A lot of other characters get repeated. Epona, Malon, most enemies, Vaati has 3 games under his belt(and is the only one who could be called a Main Villain outside of Ganon/Ganondorf. Keep in mind he also appeared as many times as Ganondorf. )

Anyway, as I said, I gotta watch/play the game enough to get a grasp. Not that I don't believe you or anything like that, of course.

Off to work!

Ha, I was talking about characters that could be considered to Sm4sh's roster.

Not so long ago[but lots of pages ago], in this same thread, I explained why I don't support Vaati anymore.
I love him and I think he might be even cooler than Ganondorf, but I lost faith. He[or anithing from Minish Cap] had little to no mentions in Brawl...

To be honest, Brawl made me very skeptical about the possible Zelda franchise's roster and content in Sm4sh.

 

[Eaode]

Why wouldn't Impa be playable character material if Sheik made it before her? She did far less than Impa, and Impa is a lot more re-occuring in Zelda. That Sheik made it in Brawl had A LOT to do with the scrapped character model for Twilight Princess. But the thing is, Sheik didn't return in Zelda games released after TP, most noticable Skyward Sword, where Impa pretty much took over the role. And did even more. Only thing Sheik has going for her is that she made it back in Brawl. But I don't see why she should return in Smash if her role in Zelda is over.

I would argue that that's really not a solid argument. I mean there are lots of characters in this game already that are staples that don't hold current relevance (all the retro characters are good examples, jigglypuff is another)

Sheik will probably stay, if not for the fact that OoT is completely a classic, but also because Zelda as an SSB character has a stylisitc duality in sheik (even though we all only use one of them).

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Not to mention he is one of those Zelda one-hit wonders. He is probably never gonna appear in another Zelda game again, because that's how Zelda works.

*coughSheikcough*

Seriously, though, just because there wasn't enough time to add a Twilight Princess character to Brawl, that doesn't mean Sakurai tends away from Zelda one-timers. In fact, if they're popular enough, he'll bring them back in Smash long after they've made a recent appearance!

*coughSheikcough*

I like what Ghirahim could bring to the table. Not at the expense of Zelda veterans, mind you, but he is probably my most desired Zelda newcomer.

Although, if I'm being totally honest, it's just because I liked Skyward Sword so much, and I want a character from that game (Impa is second to Ghirahim for me).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Jigglypuff is still mad popular though. Maybe not as much as she used to, but she's still very regonicable in Pokemon still. Also, she's a 64 veteran. I count that as more important than a side character to a Melee veteran. Besides, the retro characters are there for different reasons than most other characters, so I see that as different from Sheik. Also, Ganondorf would suffice for a OoT inspired character I'd say. He's a bit more iconic to that game than Sheik.

 

[vicgur]

Why wouldn't Impa be playable character material if Sheik made it before her? She did far less than Impa, and Impa is a lot more re-occuring in Zelda. That Sheik made it in Brawl had A LOT to do with the scrapped character model for Twilight Princess. But the thing is, Sheik didn't return in Zelda games released after TP, most noticable Skyward Sword, where Impa pretty much took over the role. And did even more. Only thing Sheik has going for her is that she made it back in Brawl. But I don't see why she should return in Smash if her role in Zelda is over.

Urgh...
You do know **MAJOR SPOILER** Sheik is Zelda **/MAJOR SPOILER**, don't you!? You say that like Sheik is a completely different character, not related at all to her.
As long as there is Zelda, Sheik will be a possible. It's an alter ego, even though it was used only once.

 

[Lukingordex]

I really don´t like Sheik...

Zelda is cool in her original clothes...

 

[Deleted member]

You're arguing a point that he never listens to, vicgur. For the sake of your sanity, don't even try...

 

[GiantBreadbug]

So, to avoid Impocalypse:

What's the general consensus here on having 4+ player matches? I mean, 6 max, but considering how many controllers could possibly be running on the Wii U at one time, it could happen. It'd be a madhouse, but it could happen.

Not saying I want it, because 4 player works very well with Smash Bros., but just pondering the possibility of it.