• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

New Smash Bros for WiiU

Status
Not open for further replies.

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,158
NNID
Arcadenik
Another interesting thing that probably influences character choices for Smash Bros. is that age of the people requesting the characters. Smash fans who are as young as 13 will not have known anything other than the GameCube and Wii games mostly. That is another reason why I am going to quit following the series after Smash 4, I will literally be debating with people who were not even born yet when I was first doing speculation.
You know... you may be right about the age groups.... personally, I think the good choices would be characters who appeal both groups.

Little Mac and King Hippo. Older fans got Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! for the NES. Younger fans got Punch-Out!! for the Wii.

Palutena and Medusa. Older fans got Kid Icarus for the NES. Younger fans got Kid Icarus: Uprising for the 3DS.

Takamaru. Older fans got The Mysterious Murasame Castle for the NES. Younger fans got Samurai Warriors 3 for the Wii.

Toad. Older fans got Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES. Younger fans got New Super Mario Bros. Wii for the Wii.

Impa. Older fans got The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the N64. Younger fans got The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword.

Ridley. Older fans got Metroid for the NES and Super Metroid for the SNES. Younger fans got Metroid: Zero Mission for the GBA and Metroid: Other M for the Wii.

Mewtwo. Older fans got Pokemon Red & Blue. Younger fans got Pokemon+Nobunaga's Ambition and a Mewtwo-related event in Pokemon Black & White.
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
34,185
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
I'm starting to think that when you have to heavily argue a character, they don't have much of a shot at all...
I'm thinking the same. People should get it right the first time, and not flounder about when things go awry. It makes the argument hold less ground.




Not singling anyone out, just my thoughts.
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,158
NNID
Arcadenik
I'm starting to think that when you have to heavily argue a character, they don't have much of a shot at all...
Well, the opposite isn't always true. People were unanimously supporting Lyn, Krystal, Midna, Samurai Goroh, Isaac, King K. Rool, and Ridley for Brawl. They didn't get in.

People were unanimously against Ash Ketchum. He got in as Pokemon Trainer Red. People argued against Cel-Shaded Link. He got in as Toon Link.
 

Oasis_S

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
11,066
Location
AR | overjoyed
3DS FC
0087-2694-8630
I will concede to Arcadenik that the duck hunting dog is a much better character than any Hunter from Metroid, most especially Weavel.
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,158
NNID
Arcadenik
I will concede to Arcadenik that the duck hunting dog is a much better character than any Hunter from Metroid, most especially Weavel.


I am the best hunter. I am Strong. Bullets cannot hurt me.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Expy doesn't mean it's the same person.

For example: Tabuu is an expy of Marx. Is Tabuu the same being as Marx?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Don't get smart with me; you're no good at it.

You know DAMN well what I'm talking about.
 

Zzuxon

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
2,559
Location
U.S.A
NNID
zzuxon
3DS FC
3695-0453-0481
Good God. The PKMN Trainerr is NOT Ash Ketchum. He is the Trainer from the games. End of Story.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
You know... you may be right about the age groups.... personally, I think the good choices would be characters who appeal both groups.

Little Mac and King Hippo. Older fans got Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! for the NES. Younger fans got Punch-Out!! for the Wii.

Palutena and Medusa. Older fans got Kid Icarus for the NES. Younger fans got Kid Icarus: Uprising for the 3DS.

Takamaru. Older fans got The Mysterious Murasame Castle for the NES. Younger fans got Samurai Warriors 3 for the Wii.

Toad. Older fans got Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES. Younger fans got New Super Mario Bros. Wii for the Wii.

Impa. Older fans got The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the N64. Younger fans got The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword.

Ridley. Older fans got Metroid for the NES and Super Metroid for the SNES. Younger fans got Metroid: Zero Mission for the GBA and Metroid: Other M for the Wii.

Mewtwo. Older fans got Pokemon Red & Blue. Younger fans got Pokemon+Nobunaga's Ambition and a Mewtwo-related event in Pokemon Black & White.
You bring up a good point about this full circle concept. I have noticed this too.
 

GiantBreadbug

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
921
Location
Buckhannon, West Virginia
NNID
GiantBreadbug
3DS FC
5327-0910-4273
I just saw the TV commercial for Uprising... ._.

If SSB4's story mode is as beautifully awesome and actiony as that... I might explode.

But also, I want KI:U more than ever.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,203
Location
Chicago, Illinois
NNID
Takamaru64
3DS FC
1375-7346-9605
Switch FC
SW-8277-6509-2593
I hope that if stickers are returning, they are using the official atrwork for the Pokemon stickers. The thing that bothers me was that they reused the 3D models as art for the Pokemon stickers in Brawl. I guess trophies weren't the only thing Sakurai and friends were lazy at doing. Also, the lack of professor, trainer (not counting Pokemon Trainer Red), and gym leader trophies was disturbing.
 

Metal Overlord

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
6,794
Location
Nawf Side
The award goes to Zzuxon for completely misunderstanding the conversation at hand

No one here was even saying that the Pokemon Trainer in Brawl is Ash, dude

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
There is a full circle concept? :awesome: Please do elaborate.
Basically, its a fanbase that has two poles for its fanbase. Both very young and very old. I think Toad is the one that applies the most to it.

Other characters you brought up such as Palutena, Medusa, and Impa really did not have fans during their NES days. Ridley also does not belong since he has a broad spectrum due to his game appearance up to 1994 and throughout the last decade.

Takamaru and Little Mac I think apply somewhat (though for Takamaru is possibly more Japanese).

However, even with a lack of a recent game releases, its still possible for younger fans do play a character's source material due to the prevalence of ROMs and to a lesser extent the Virtual Console. I believe Punch-Out is consitently one of the highest selling VC titles each week, which is really impressive for a title that is not Mario, Zelda, or DK.
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,158
NNID
Arcadenik
Thanks for explaining, Chrono. Yeah, I do agree that Toad is the prime example of this full circle concept followed closely by Little Mac (in the West) and Takamaru (in Japan).

I also would like some characters who are mostly popular with the older fans.... and some characters who are mostly popular with the younger fans... to go with the majority of characters who are popular with both age groups.

Older fans could have Dixie Kong (with or without Kiddy Kong), King K. Rool, Meowth (with or without Arbok and Weezing), Duck Hunt Dog, etc. Younger fans could have Zoroark, Krom, Starfy, Mii, etc.
 

Oasis_S

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
11,066
Location
AR | overjoyed
3DS FC
0087-2694-8630
HMMM, I wonder if Sakurai will take VC sales into account like he did with Pit and his Famicom Mini sales? Though it's apparently not so much a deciding factor as it is a "Yeah, okay, looks like a few people like him." "Sales don't matter" is said a lot, but it only makes sense that should Sakurai ask himself "Will people like this character?" that he would look at sales data as hard evidence. This would more apply to those lesser known characters.


Even so, I guess you'd still be saying "Sales practically don't matter," lol.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
If anyone is curious about how I figure out Japanese opinions on video games, I usually do so by reading Japanese reviews on games at Amazon Japan.

To Oasis, Sin & Punishment on the Virtual Console sold far better than S&P2 did at retail. I think the S&P VC sales may have been the impetus to even make the sequel.
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,158
NNID
Arcadenik
HMMM, I wonder if Sakurai will take VC sales into account like he did with Pit and his Famicom Mini sales? Though it's apparently not so much a deciding factor as it is a "Yeah, okay, looks like a few people like him." "Sales don't matter" is said a lot, but it only makes sense that should Sakurai ask himself "Will people like this character?" that he would look at sales data as hard evidence. This would more apply to those lesser known characters.


Even so, I guess you'd still be saying "Sales practically don't matter," lol.
Sales? Oh, god (and Sakurai)... please gimme a Pushmo stage!!! It was easily the best Nintendo downloadable game on the 3DS.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,203
Location
Chicago, Illinois
NNID
Takamaru64
3DS FC
1375-7346-9605
Switch FC
SW-8277-6509-2593
The award goes to Zzuxon for completely misunderstanding the conversation at hand

No one here was even saying that the Pokemon Trainer in Brawl is Ash, dude

:phone:
I know that's not Red, though it's based on a design used on Pokemon Fired Red/Leaf Green. It's just to specify what trainer only had a trophy in Brawl. In Melee, they had Misty (trainer) and Professor Oak (professor). I was complaining about why Brawl Pokemon trophies were mostly the Pokemon than the people unlike in Melee .
 

Starphoenix

How Long Have I Been Asleep?
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
8,993
Location
Cyberspace
NNID
GalaxyPhoenix
3DS FC
2122-6914-9465
Playing the advocate of the opposition I think the problem with some people is that your very noticeable preference towards Roy brings into the question the validity of your information. This does not help matters when you have, on a couple of occasions, not provided adequate documentation to support your claims. Tis only an observation from a roaming birdie.

Either way, all I know about Roy is regardless of everything else he seems to get enough support from nostalgic Melee fans to keep him in discussion. Only thing people seem to not be able to open their minds to is that Roy can be unique.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Playing the advocate of the opposition I think the problem with some people is that your very noticeable preference towards Roy brings into the question the validity of your information. This does not help matters when you have, on a couple of occasions, not provided adequate documentation to support your claims. Tis only an observation from a roaming birdie.
I have given them links to polls, sites, reviews, and sales data. There is not much else I can do.
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,158
NNID
Arcadenik
It's how this thread repeats the same damn discussions every damn time.

LET'S DISCUSS WHICH POKEMON SHOULD BE IN! I WANT GENESECT!
LOL The only Pokemon I want are Mewtwo and Meowth (with or without Arbok and Weezing). The series needs villains... but not just any random villains... famous villains... world-renowned villains... like Mewtwo and Team Rocket.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
this..................
Here is a moveset I made for Roy that is completely unique. However, considering I was even able to make an unique moveset for Dr. Mario, I think the "uniqueness" argument is absolutely pointless, and is simply in the eye of the beholder.

[COLLAPSE="Decloned Roy Moveset"]Roy moveset:

Roy is the third and last cut Melee character that I am bringing back for my Smash 4 roster. Roy was among the last two of the Forbidden 7 to be cut from the final game. Roy is also the most popular of the cut Melee veterans, second only to Mewtwo. While, Roy was initially in Melee to advertise Fire Emblem 6, he has gained a lot of fans in the Smash series, and helped to make Fire Emblem gain a fanbase outside Japan. Roy is also the most important of all the Elibe lords, and the Swords of Seals itself offers Roy a lot of moveset potential.

Roy is actually the only new sword-character that was added to my roster. Ganondorf uses a trident, Lip uses a baton, and Isaac only uses his sword for some of A-moves and specials. However, some people said that another sword-character for Fire Emblem would not offer anything unique. They are very much wrong. While, it is difficult to display differences in swordplay for Smash movesets, the style planned for Roy will very much make him a different sword fighter than the other sword-users currently on the roster. Roy also gets his special moves from abilities that the Sword of Seals has (which include it ability to shoot out flames and heal). However, you might be asking what kind of sword style do I plan for Roy.

The sword style that makes up Roy’s moveset is using a two-handed sword with both hands. Roy will obviously hold his blade with both his hands, as opposed to one like every other sword user currently in the Smash Bros. series. However, you might be asking how would this serve to make Roy unique? Well, the primary reason why a two-handed sword is wielded with both hands is to allow extra control and help better wield a sword that is very heavy and large compared to its wielder. Ike, known for being the strongest lord in the entire Fire Emblem series, is understandable as to how he is able to wield a two-handed sword with one-hand. However, someone such as Roy, who is weaker physically, needed both hands in order to wield the Sword of Seals in his game. While wielding a two-handed sword will make Roy a stronger character than what is custom for a character of is weight and speed, there is a drawback to it. The drawback is that Roy needs both of his hands to properly wield his sword. If Roy picks up an item and uses it, his speed and power (and recovery) will be compromised in a big way. Its for this reason, that a lot of items are actually useless for Roy to use, and this aspect is Roy’s biggest weakness.

However, there are also other aspects to Roy’s Sword of Seal other than it being a two-handed sword. As many of you know, the Sword of Seals has a fire effect to its critical attacks (which is why a lot of Roy’s specials had fire effects). However, what a lot of you did not know was that the Sword of Seals gets it power from the emotions of its wielder (if its wielder pities its enemy it will simply knock his opponent unconscious as opposed to killing him or her), and that it has the ability to strike at a distance as well as heal its wielder. It are these traits to the legendary blade that provide the basis for Roy’s special moves for his new moveset.

As for Roy’s design, while Roy has only made one appearance in a Fire Emblem game (barring his cameo in Fire Emblem 7), I think Roy’s appearance should differ a bit from his Melee design. In Melee, his hair was bit spikier and he looked more like a hyperactive pyro than the quiet and kind leader he was in Fire Emblem 6. I think for his head and hair it should be based off of his in-game sprite portrait in Fire Emblem 6 (meaning Roy would have a longer head than in Melee, as well as less spiky hair that is sort of parted to the side). As for his actual lord outfit design, it should be based off of Roy’s outfit on the cover to the box to Fire Emblem 6. Roy in-game should look not too serious, but have a simple determination to him that is reflective of kind, gentle nature. As for the official Smash 4 art for Roy, I imagine him holding onto the Sword of Seals’s hilt with one of his hands, with the pointed end of the Sword of Seals hitting the ground, with Roy having a determined look on his face that is similar to his official Melee art picture. Overall, I hope that the new moveset I made for Roy helps to convince you that he is indeed worthy enough to return in Smash 4 as a playable character, and that he would even make an unique addition to the whole roster.

Roy’s regular moves:

A: Roy makes a diagonal slice with his sword.
AA: Roy makes a horizontal slice with his sword.
AAA: Roy makes a vertical slice with his sword.
Running-A: Roy will make jump in the air and come down with the Sword of Seals with a vertical slice (it basically looks like Ike after coming down after doing Aether). It works similar to a move that is in the 3-D Zelda games (where you would hold z, then press A).
Side-A: Roy will do a spin kick with one of his legs, than follow with a horizontal slice with his sword.
Down-A: This is one of Roy’s few A-moves from Melee. Roy simply pokes his opponent while kneeling with his sword. This move still sends your opponent upward like it did in Melee.
Up-A: Roy quickly raises the Sword of Seals pointed edge to the sky (looks sort of like his up-smash from Melee).
A-Air: Roy’ will do the same A-aerial as in Melee only he holds the blade with both hands.
Down-Air: Roy will come down quickly (like with Toon Link/Sonic/Zero Suit Samus’s down-aerials) and smack the flat-side of the Sword of Seals into his opponent. This move is a spike, not a meteor.
Backward-air: Roy will swing the Sword of Seals in back of him in a manner similar to Link’s Up-B, which also means that it will hurt opponent that are in front of Roy wen doing this attack. However, there the lag-time when doing this attack is similar to that of Ike’s aerials.
Forward-air: Roy’s forward-air is the same as Ike’s, however, it comes out much faster than Ike’s does.
Up-air: Roy simply raises the pointed end of his Sword of Seals at 45 degree angle. While this move has very limited range, it is a powerful kill move.
Forward-Smash: Roy will close his eyes (this is him focusing his emotions into the Sword of Seals), and the blade will become on fire. Roy will then do the same flaming sword swipe in which he does a critical in Fire Emblem 6.
Down-Smash: Once again, Roy will close his eyes, and the Sword of Seals will light on fire. Roy charges up the power to the smash attack in the same position as Ike does, however, the attack differs from Ike’s. Instead Roy will spin around in a circle.
Up-Smash: Roy will raise the Sword of Seals at a 70 degree angle, and close his eyes and sword will light a blaze. When done charging, Roy will do a flip with the Sword of Seals on fire.

Roy’s grabs, like the other two Fire Emblem characters, are very weak.
Grabs:
Grab-A: Roy’s will keep hitting his opponent with his knee.
Forward-Grab: Roy will toss forward his opponent.
Backward-Grab: Roy will kick his opponent in back of him.
Down-Grab: Roy will slam his opponent in back of him.
Up-Grab: Roy will toss his opponent up

Roy special moves:


Regular-B: Flare Blade: This is the same move Roy has in Melee. Roy puts the Sword of Seals above his head like in Melee, closes his eyes, only this time the Sword of Seals lights on fire while charging. When fully charged the moves is basically an OHKO, however, this move now does 20% damage to Roy, and is the only move to retain the middle of the sword sweetspot.

Side-B: Holy Fire: Roy charges the Sword Seals next to his shoulder. Once again Roy closes his eyes, and the blades sets on fire. However, when done charging Roy will raise the Sword of Seals up high, and a small, white ball of fire will shoot out from the blade. If this ball of fire hits an opponent it will create a huge explosion. Obviously, the power of the fire ball is dependent on how long Roy charges this attack. This attack is based off of the ability of the Sword of Seals to do a projectile attack.

Down-B: Recover: Roy will hold the Sword of Seals in the same position as he did with Counter in Melee (only Roy now holds the blade with both hands). Several flames encircle Roy while in this position. If Roy is attacked while in this defensive position 75% of the attack power will heal Roy, while the other 1/4 will be used to deal damage to the opponent (meaning that is Roy gets hit with an attack that does 24% damage, Roy will get healed 18% damage, and deal 6% damage to his opponent). Interestingly enough, this move has the same knock back no matter how powerful the attack. The amount of knockback Roy does with this attack is about 1/5 the distance of Final Destination. This special move is based off of the Sword of Seals ability to heal its wielder.

Up-B: Flame Wave: Roy will raise the Sword of Seals up high and close his eyes, while the blade lights on fire. Once done charging, the tip of the blade, will have a blue flame on it. This attack has two parts. When Roy performs the attack in the air, Roy will perform his Blazer recovery move from Melee (however, he now holds the blade with both hands), and at the apex of the attack’s height Roy will come back down (think Ike’s Aether) quickly. However, if you charged the sword on the ground, after Roy comes down, a wave of fire will shoot out of the blade that is very powerful (35% damage) though has little damage. This move is again based off of the Sword of Seals ability to shoot out flames.

Final Smash: Great Balls of Fire: This Final Smash is self-explanatory. Roy will push the Sword of Seals into the ground, then get on one of his knees, and close his eyes. It will look like Roy is praying. Then, fire meteors starts shooting out diagonally from the top-left corner of the screen down toward the arena. This balls of fire don’t have much knockback, but are hard to avoid. The fireball onslaught ends after 20 seconds. Afterward, Roy will pull the Sword of Seals out of the ground and get on with the fight.


Roy’s taunts are as follows:
1. Roy’s will put the Sword of Seals behind his back, and go “Eeeyaah” (this is the same taunt he had in Melee).
2. Roy will put the Sword of Seals into its holder, and say, “For my friends and countrymen, I must not lose.”
3. Roy will thrust the Sword of Seals into the ground, he will close his eyes, and flames will circle around Roy.

Victory animations:
Roy’s victory animations are the same as they were in Melee.

Running animation:
Roy will hold the Sword of Seals with both of hands and will run with Sword of Seals down by his size. Though it is a bit difficult to imagine, this running animation differs greatly from Marth’s and Ike’s.

Idle animation:
Roy will hold the Sword of Seals the same way Ike holds Ragnell in his Counter position. Sometimes, Roy will hold the Sword of Seals up like how Cloud hold his Buster Sword. Other than that, Roy does not do anything else.

Costumes:
1. Roy’s armor and tunic becomes red.
2. Roy’s armor and tunic becomes dark blue.
3. Roy’s armor becomes green and his tunic brown.
4. Roy’s armor becomes gold and his tunic yellow.
5. Roy’s armor becomes black, and his tunic red.

Kirby Hat:
Kirby’s Roy hat is the same as it was in Melee, and even does the same move. Not much else to say here.

Roy-Snake Codec Conversation:
Snake: Colonel, who is this boy with the red hair and the huge sword?
Campbell: That’s Roy. Roy helped lead the Lycian Army to victory against an aggressive war started by Bern, the military superpower of Elibe. The blade he wields is a legendary sword wielded by the founder the founder of Bern called the Sword of Seals.
Snake: Tell me more about this Sword of Seals...
Campbell: The blade gets its power from the emotions of its wielder. If its wielder is merciful toward his enemy, the mercy will be reflected in the blows the blade deals. However, if the wielder feels hate toward his enemy, that same hate will manifest in the blade’s strikes. Not only that, this sword will light ablaze, and has the power to strike from a far and even heal it wielder.
Snake: So this isn’t some kid with an ordinary sword we’re dealing with here..., how do I counter this guy.
Colonel: The Sword of Seals is heavy. Roy needs use of both of his hands in order to properly use it in battle.
Snake: So if I get Roy to hold onto something else while battling, it should compromise his attack power and speed greatly, right.
Campbell: Bingo. However, I think Roy might be aware of this weakness.
Snake:Thanks, colonel.
End of codec.[/COLLAPSE]
 

Starphoenix

How Long Have I Been Asleep?
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
8,993
Location
Cyberspace
NNID
GalaxyPhoenix
3DS FC
2122-6914-9465
NOPE. Good enough for me.
Well, not for me. I am looking for the article, but am running into some trouble finding the original.

Should we really expect Roy to be as unique as he can be? >:
I doubt he will stray too far from the Marth base, but I think it would be enough to at least make him more tolerable to his dissenters.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,498
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
LOL The only Pokemon I want are Mewtwo and Meowth (with or without Arbok and Weezing). The series needs villains... but not just any random villains... famous villains... world-renowned villains... like Mewtwo and Team Rocket.
Unfortunately, anime usage is pretty much off-limits. There is Pokemon Yellow, but even so, I'd like to see the later generations get some attention.
 

Oasis_S

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
11,066
Location
AR | overjoyed
3DS FC
0087-2694-8630
Weren't all the Iwata Asks things removed? Or did I misunderstand something said before. Maybe it was just the Brawl ones.

As long as Roy gets some mid to long range fire effects on a few of his moves, I'll be happy. Maybe a different Side Special?
 

---

謹賀新年!
Super Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
13,634
Location
Michigan
NNID
TripleDash
Switch FC
SW-1574-3686-1211
It's all subjective.

Personally I think Sakurai already had a plan to make Roy more "unique," looking at Marth's new version of Shield Breaker and Ike's Eruption.

EDIT: Weird, I think I just realized that I'm interested in Roy for his character, but Krom for his possible "unique" moveset.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom