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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Arcadenik

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Your point being....?
B - Amulet Coin - not a move in the Pokemon games, it is a hold item... it is actually Pay Day from the Pokemon games but it is called "Amulet Coin"... it is just in name only.

Down B - Payback - it is a Dark-type move... it is in name only... but the function of Payback in the Pokemon games indicates that the Pokemon getting hit would hit back with double power... how could we translate this into a Smash move? It could work as a counter... so, if Meowth gets hit, he scatters coins around its body to counter, dealing double damage... it looks like Pay Day from Smash 64 but it is called Payback.

Final Smash - Pay Day - the actual Pay Day from Brawl.
 
D

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B - Amulet Coin - not a move in the Pokemon games, it is a hold item... it is actually Pay Day from the Pokemon games but it is called "Amulet Coin"... it is just in name only.

Down B - Payback - it is a Dark-type move... it is in name only... but the function of Payback in the Pokemon games indicates that the Pokemon getting hit would hit back with double power... how could we translate this into a Smash move? It could work as a counter... so, if Meowth gets hit, he scatters coins around its body to counter, dealing double damage... it looks like Pay Day from Smash 64 but it is called Payback.

Final Smash - Pay Day - the actual Pay Day from Brawl.
>Implying Meowth is ALL about coins.

By your logic, Jigglypuff should be ALL about singing and music notes. Hell, give it Hyper Voice, Perish Song, Echoed Voice, etc.
 

Shinymonkey8

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I think it would be really interesting if they used throh because he would be a throwing character. He could really switch up the way the game is played by making him able to throw in the air and stuff like that. Having a grappling style fighter would be really interesting try as opposed to the usual melee style.

I know it is unlikely to happen but who else thinks it would make for a very interesting and dynamic character?
Maybe if Throh had an ounce of popularity anywhere...
 

GTA_Hater_331

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Now I have 5 questions:

1) One thing's been bothering me for a while: For Toon Link's Final Smash, why did they just give him the Triforce Slash (the last thing needed to keep him a Link clone) instead of
his parry attack as was used to eliminate Samurai Ganondorf
at the end of The Wind Waker?

2) Why do so many people want to play as Tetra and/or Toon Zelda? I didn't think Wind Waker, nevermind Phantom Hourglass, was THAT beloved.

3) Is there ANY possibility of an all-new Fire Emblem game any time soon?

4) If you said NO to question 3, should Smash Bros Wii U even get a new Fire Emblem character?

5) Is there one single Black/White Pokemon worth considering to make playable?
 

Pieman0920

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As a hypothetical Meowth moveset, a way to make him stand out would be to give him a stance change. Regular stance would be upright, fighting on two legs, and his secondary stance would be on all fours. The stance would be changed by down special. It wouldn't effect his special moves, but rather just his normal attacks, with his up right stance being somewhat slower, but slightly more powerful. The all fours stance would be quicker, harder to hit, but would cost him his grabs.

Neutral special would be Pay Day which would act sort of like Mario's fire balls in that they hit the ground and bounce around a bit causing damage on contact. There would be more of them than regular fire balls, but they would do less damage. Up special would be Fury Swipes, which would act sort of like Captain Falcon's up special where Meowth sort of leaps upwards, but doesn't do an attack unless he connects with the opponent, in which case, he grabs and slashes them. Side special could be Taunt, where Meowth makes a silly face which causes a little effect to come out, sort o like Mewtwo's confusion. If the effect hits, the opponent won't be able to block or roll for a second or so. Perhaps that one is a bit overpowered though. Its a really difficult thing trying to think of something somewhat original for a cat character. There are way too many of them in fighting games.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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As a hypothetical Meowth moveset, a way to make him stand out would be to give him a stance change. Regular stance would be upright, fighting on two legs, and his secondary stance would be on all fours. The stance would be changed by down special. It wouldn't effect his special moves, but rather just his normal attacks, with his up right stance being somewhat slower, but slightly more powerful. The all fours stance would be quicker, harder to hit, but would cost him his grabs.

Neutral special would be Pay Day which would act sort of like Mario's fire balls in that they hit the ground and bounce around a bit causing damage on contact. There would be more of them than regular fire balls, but they would do less damage. Up special would be Fury Swipes, which would act sort of like Captain Falcon's up special where Meowth sort of leaps upwards, but doesn't do an attack unless he connects with the opponent, in which case, he grabs and slashes them. Side special could be Taunt, where Meowth makes a silly face which causes a little effect to come out, sort o like Mewtwo's confusion. If the effect hits, the opponent won't be able to block or roll for a second or so. Perhaps that one is a bit overpowered though. Its a really difficult thing trying to think of something somewhat original for a cat character. There are way too many of them in fighting games.
TBH, if we are doing a stance change, it should be on a more interesting character than meowth

I actually had an idea for a "stance change" for Koopa Trooper...

One for in a shell and one for out of it
 

Arcadenik

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*looks at Golden's tl;dr moveset*

Hmm... so Meowth's Pay Day works like Ivysaur's Bullet Seed, only it's to the side, not to the top (that's how I picture it based on your description)

Meowth's Thief... combines Captain Falcon's Side B and Up B moves but if he connects with the opponent, he steals the item from them! OMG! Unique! Too bad that gimmick won't do him any good in the competitive scene :awesome:

Meowth's False Swipe... copies Ganondorf's Up B but the animation looks like Ike's Up B or Lucas's Back Air (that's how I picture it based on your description)

Hmmm... Meowth's Screech... copies Mewtwo's Down B because the opponent gets stunned/disabled

The Final Smash... Meowth's Night Slash - copies Meta Knight's Final Smash
 

Pieman0920

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TBH, if we are doing a stance change, it should be on a more interesting character than meowth

I actually had an idea for a "stance change" for Koopa Trooper...

One for in a shell and one for out of it
Oh I know it should be for a better character. Meowth's horribly boring. It took me a second after I posted that to realize that he didn't have a Final Smash, and there's really nothing that good for it other than giving him uncharacteristically strong moves. Maybe a guitar with music or something, but I don't know nor care about that cat so whatever. :glare:
 

Aurane

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Here's my old Meowth Moveset I posted before:

(B):pay Day:
Hold the (B) button to charge, and let go of the (B) button to throw. The longer you hold the (B)button, the longer the throw time. Unlike the Ball Meowth, he can fire sideways, upwards, and downwards (Which trips easier on both sides of Meowth). The maximum time chargable is a 3 second firing spree. Hold ^ when you're about to let go to fire upwards, and v to fire downwards. In the sky, the coins will be shot all around him, like in the N64.

(B)>: Payback:
He stands straighter, and his claws come out. When hit, he'll slash foward, doing 2x the number of dmg that was to be done. Meowth takes 1% dmg off this attack.

(B)v: Swaggar:
He stomps first, then smirks. As you hold it, the ground under him will vibrate, and he'll be breathing deeply. In this mode, he can deflect projectiles and make them shoot straight upwards. If an opponent is nearby when this move activates, the opponent's left and right movements become confused, and switch every now and then. So, you could be holding left, but you may go right, or maybe left.

(B)^: Aerial Ace
Like Meta Knight, except he doesn't glide. A Glideless shuttle loop, to be exact. But he also has action afterwards (He can still attack and such).

FS: Meowth's Party
He whips out the guitar he played in Pokemon Channel, and plays a miniture version of the song he plays in Channel. Buttons will show up on the top screen. It'll say stuff like, "Press B". Press it in time, and Meowth's Coin on his head will glow. After the song stops, he'll throw the guitar off stage, and then use a more powerful Pay Day, except he's movable in the air, and the coins are bigger and hit harder/have more range. Depending on the song's button-hit, this move can be a OHKO. Enemies are locked by the coins, and then shot left or right.

This pays homage to his Anime appearences, his PokeChannel appearence, and Smash appearence.
Any thoughts, Mentlegen?
 

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TBH, if we are doing a stance change, it should be on a more interesting character than meowth

I actually had an idea for a "stance change" for Koopa Trooper...

One for in a shell and one for out of it
Zero Suit Samus. Switch from a Jill Valentine-inspired moveset to a plasma whip moveset.
 
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It is only three moves. God! :rolleyes:
2 moves too many.

(And don't give me **** about Pikachu having multiple Electric attacks, because 1, it's an Electric Type, and 2, there are multiple Electric moves in the Pokemon games. There is only ONE Pay Day.)
Making unrelated moves into Pay Day style (Payback) or using a Held Item like a Pokemon Move, again, in a Pay Day style (Amulet Coin) shows lack of creativity and failure to understand that Pay Day does not define Meowth, especially since the most well known Meowth CAN'T USE Pay Day.

Once is believable. 3 is overkill.
 

Arcadenik

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2 moves too many.

(And don't give me **** about Pikachu having multiple Electric attacks, because 1, it's an Electric Type, and 2, there are multiple Electric moves in the Pokemon games. There is only ONE Pay Day.)
Making unrelated moves into Pay Day style (Payback) or using a Held Item like a Pokemon Move, again, in a Pay Day style (Amulet Coin) shows lack of creativity and failure to understand that Pay Day does not define Meowth, especially since the most well known Meowth CAN'T USE Pay Day.

Once is believable. 3 is overkill.
Tell that to Sakurai. :rolleyes: He's the one who made Meowth do two different versions of Pay Day in Smash games. There is no one right or wrong way of using Pay Day... we can only go by the animation in the Pokemon games... but Sakurai was creative enough to make Pay Day utilized in different ways. So, why cannot Meowth take creative liberties of using those "Smash" Pay Days in its moveset?

It doesn't matter if the most famous Meowth cannot use Pay Day. It is a plot device in the anime so Team Rocket would remain poor and resort to thievery. BTW, Smash isn't canon.
 

Big-Cat

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They would, but that's because they are so generic. MvC2 Jill though, she had swagger. Like a brawler in her normals she was.
I would consider MvC3 Jill, minus the teleportation and guns, to be a badass normal in MvC3. For Gun Zamus' specials, she can have her current flip jump, the stun gun, and Jill's arrow kick as a shinespark reference. Besides, the only other character close to being an acrobatic fighter in that game was Chun-Li.
 

Disfunkshunal

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Now I have 5 questions:

1) One thing's been bothering me for a while: For Toon Link's Final Smash, why did they just give him the Triforce Slash (the last thing needed to keep him a Link clone) instead of
his parry attack as was used to eliminate Samurai Ganondorf
at the end of The Wind Waker?

2) Why do so many people want to play as Tetra and/or Toon Zelda? I didn't think Wind Waker, nevermind Phantom Hourglass, was THAT beloved.

3) Is there ANY possibility of an all-new Fire Emblem game any time soon?

4) If you said NO to question 3, should Smash Bros Wii U even get a new Fire Emblem character?

5) Is there one single Black/White Pokemon worth considering to make playable?

1) you have to ask sakurai
2) I wouldn't say a lot of people want to play as them but for me personally, wind waker is my 2nd favorite Zelda.
3) one is coming out in April in Japan.
4) I said yes to question 3
5) victini/zoroark/genesect are the most popular.

:phone:
 

Pieman0920

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I would consider MvC3 Jill, minus the teleportation and guns, to be a badass normal in MvC3. For Gun Zamus' specials, she can have her current flip jump, the stun gun, and Jill's arrow kick as a shinespark reference. Besides, the only other character close to being an acrobatic fighter in that game was Chun-Li.
Spiderman?

Really though, I don't think its that great an idea, since you'd have a stance change character who is also the product of a transformation, which just seems needlessly complicated for one character. And how exactly is the stance change going to take place? And how do her normals change? And what about her whip form?
 

Arcadenik

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcAM8jE_vqo

See? Meowth isn't even trying to use Pay Day but it drops coins whenever it gets hit by the Pokeball. This scenario combined with Meowth's Smash 64 Pay Day and the function of Payback from the games... and you get a Down B counter. Meowth scatters coins around, dealing double damage, when it gets hit. It fits Meowth's character.
 

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Wait, doesn't Sonic use his spin attack about 8 different ways? NeutralB, SideB, DownB, Down Smash, Up smash, Neutral Air, Down Throw, Dash Attack.

I think Meowth's hypothetical payday functions wouldn't be overdoing it especially compared to Sonic.
 

Arcadenik

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Wait, doesn't Sonic use his spin attack about 8 different ways? NeutralB, SideB, DownB, Down Smash, Up smash, Neutral Air, Down Throw, Dash Attack.

I think Meowth's hypothetical payday functions wouldn't be overdoing it especially compared to Sonic.
This! This guy gets it!
 
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Tell that to Sakurai. :rolleyes: He's the one who made Meowth do two different versions of Pay Day in Smash games. There is no one right or wrong way of using Pay Day... we can only go by the animation in the Pokemon games... but Sakurai was creative enough to make Pay Day utilized in different ways. So, why cannot Meowth take creative liberties of using those "Smash" Pay Days in its moveset?

It doesn't matter if the most famous Meowth cannot use Pay Day. It is a plot device in the anime so Team Rocket would remain poor and resort to thievery. BTW, Smash isn't canon.
Not my ****ing point. My point is that Meowth isn't DEFINED by Pay Day. What defines Meowth is more or less his appearance in the anime.
While yes, Meowth used Pay Day as a Poke Ball, remember that Charizard used Flamethrower, and he DOES NOT use it like he did as a Poke Ball when he became playable.
So why should Meowth? Why should Meowth be FORCED to use multiple styles of Pay Day, when he's got other things in his arsenal? I would understand if Meowth couldn't do much to where improvise would have to be made, but that isn't the case.
 

Big-Cat

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Spiderman?

Really though, I don't think its that great an idea, since you'd have a stance change character who is also the product of a transformation, which just seems needlessly complicated for one character. And how exactly is the stance change going to take place? And how do her normals change? And what about her whip form?
Spiderman has super powers though.

How is it her being a transformation character an issue? They're only switchable in the most unfavorable circumstance. You're better off just separating them. The stance change is via down B and there's a flat out moveset change. It's like Zelda and Sheik but not inefficient as she can switch at any given the time in a much quicker way.
 
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This! This guy gets it!
No, both of you are just fools.

Spin Dashes DEFINE Sonic. Pay Day does NOT DEFINE Meowth. Everything Sonic does in his games are based on his speed or spinning.

That, and Sakurai has stated that he WAS NOT IN CHARGE OF MAKING SONIC'S MOVESET.
 

Pieman0920

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Spiderman has super powers though.
Still an acrobat. :p

How is it her being a transformation character an issue? They're only switchable in the most unfavorable circumstance. You're better off just separating them. The stance change is via down B and there's a flat out moveset change. It's like Zelda and Sheik but not inefficient as she can switch at any given the time in a much quicker way.
Well yeah you probably won't use both Samus and ZSS in any given match, but three movesets for the same character is really strange, especially if two of them are being used on a version who's only shown up playable in one game and the secondary stance for her is based off a weapon she's never really had (The whip). I mean I''d be more receptive to the idea if Samus was actually in her armor for the third moveset, but she's not here. Also I was confused about the transformation, since you kept the flip jump, though should I assume you're intending that to be her up special now?

Really it'd make more sense for her to lose the whip and just turn into your Jill clone that way.
 

Arcadenik

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Not my ****ing point. My point is that Meowth isn't DEFINED by Pay Day. What defines Meowth is more or less his appearance in the anime.
While yes, Meowth used Pay Day as a Poke Ball, remember that Charizard used Flamethrower, and he DOES NOT use it like he did as a Poke Ball when he became playable.
So why should Meowth? Why should Meowth be FORCED to use multiple styles of Pay Day, when he's got other things in his arsenal? I would understand if Meowth couldn't do much to where improvise would have to be made, but that isn't the case.
Meowth is defined by two things:
- Pay Day because it is Meowth's signature move (it is evident in various Pokemon and Smash games)
- scratching because it is called the Scratch Cat Pokemon (judging by the number of scratch-based moves in its movepool in the Pokemon games)

All the anime did was make Meowth more popular than most of the 649 Pokemon.
 

Big-Cat

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Still an acrobat. :p



Well yeah you probably won't use both Samus and ZSS in any given match, but three movesets for the same character is really strange, especially if two of them are being used on a version who's only shown up playable in one game and the secondary stance for her is based off a weapon she's never really had (The whip). I mean I''d be more receptive to the idea if Samus was actually in her armor for the third moveset, but she's not here. Also I was confused about the transformation, since you kept the flip jump, though should I assume you're intending that to be her up special now?

Really it'd make more sense for her to lose the whip and just turn into your Jill clone that way.
The only reason I ever suggested the whip thing was because it looked like Zamus was going to be Ivy-esque based off the Brawl debut trailer, only for her to use it in a moves and her craptastic grab.
 

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No, both of you are just fools.

Spin Dashes DEFINE Sonic. Pay Day does NOT DEFINE Meowth.

That, and Sakurai has stated that he WAS NOT IN CHARGE OF MAKING SONIC'S MOVESET.
First, chill out with the insults, then provide a link to that statement. Pay Day is one of its key moves and the only pokemon who can learn it.

Do yourself a favor and go to bulbapedia.
 

Oasis_S

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The only reason I ever suggested the whip thing was because it looked like Zamus was going to be Ivy-esque based off the Brawl debut trailer, only for her to use it in a moves and her craptastic grab.
Up Special? Side Special?
 

Arcadenik

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First, chill out with the insults, then provide a link to that statement. Pay Day is one of its key moves and the only pokemon who can learn it.
Yeah... the other Pokemon who learn Pay Day needs to be fathered by Meowth or by taught with TM16 (this was only in Red/Blue/Yellow).
 

Arcadenik

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Yeah, but it feels like they just used the whip thing to fill in a few voids.
They were still good, weren't they? :)

Side B felt more like a long-distance Smash move and it doubles as a tether recovery
Up B seems more like it is used to bring airborne characters down to Samus's level... but it also doubles as a tether recovery

It is interesting that her Down B is her recovery move... it functions like your standard Up B move... Zero Suit Samus is really interesting... very oriented around tether recoveries and stunning enemies.
 

Big-Cat

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I would've liked to have see the Up B be more like a mix of She-Hulk's anti-air grab and Vice's command grab.

The moves are cool and all, but I feel that they weren't creative enough with her.
 

Arcadenik

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I would've liked to have see the Up B be more like a mix of She-Hulk's anti-air grab and Vice's command grab.

The moves are cool and all, but I feel that they weren't creative enough with her.
Ahh... yeah...I think Sakurai added Zero Suit Samus because he thought she was interesting and probably wanted a character whose playstyle took advantage of the new gameplay mechanic he wanted to add in Brawl: tether recoveries. So, I guess that's why Ice Climbers' Up B was improved IMO and it could be partly why we got Ivysaur and Olimar...

Maybe Sakurai might want to improve the grab-based tether recoveries in Smash 4? Improve Link's hookshot, Samus' grappling beam, and Lucas' rope snake? Add new characters who might take advantage of this improved grab-based tether recovery mechanic?

Hey! Maybe part of the reason we got Meta Knight, Pit, and Charizard in Brawl is because Sakurai wanted to add the gliding mechanic... he added those characters to utilize that new mechanic... I think that mechanic would be ideal for newcomers like Ridley and Starfy.
 
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First, chill out with the insults, then provide a link to that statement. Pay Day is one of its key moves and the only pokemon who can learn it.

Do yourself a favor and go to bulbapedia.
First, grow up. If you can't handle being called a fool of all things, you've got issues. It's not like I said you were stupid or mentally handicapped.

"Key move" is a joke, as it implies that the move is very important and necessary.
The term you're looking for is "signature move". But signature moves don't define a Pokemon, except if it's the only one they know naturally, such as Smeargle's Sketch.
For REAL signature move examples, Aeroblast. Does Aeroblast define Lugia? Is Lugia all about Aeroblast? If, hypothetically, Lugia was playable in Smash, should it have 3 variations of Aeroblast?
How about Octozooka? Should Octillery have 3 variations of it as special moves or Final Smash if it were playable?

And an example I've already given, Jigglypuff. Being the typical Pokemon that puts others to sleep by singing is its trademark. Sing, while not its signature move, is an ability that DEFINES Jigglypuff. And yet, it has only ONE variation of Sing in Smash.

Furthermore, you're trying to use another character from another series (3rd Party, I might add) of another, unrelated genre to justify why Meowth should have 3 Pay Days.
Unlike Meowth, Sonic is well defined by two things: Speed and rolling into a ball. Name one ability that he has that doesn't involve speed or rolling into a ball. Other than one-shot barrel-scraping techniques like using exploding mines in Sonic Battle.
Do yourself a favor and go Sonic News Network.
 

Pichu Fan

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Would be cool if lance from pokemon was in smash. Using dragonite gyrados and areodactyl. On marylands big character poll lance scored second out of thousands. (first was red)
 
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