New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I had this nice long explanation, but Kuma ninja'd me with his summary.

Ninja Panda.

Fixed for great justice.

On a serious note, I really hope we get some character announcements by E3. Third Party Returners, Sheik, Toad(I may not like him, but I want to see him fight, honestly), a 5th Gen Pokemon. That should do it for me.

 

[Gallowglass]

That's your interpretation, not fact. Also, let's look at the context of things.

Pichu - One of the last minute clone additions and doubled as a joke character. Needless to say, he wasn't exactly the most popular character because of how bad he was.

Lucario - Despite popular belief, was NOT Mewtwo's replacement. Was also a fairly popular character at the time of development and was probably put in at request of the Pokemon Company.

Roy - One of the clones in Melee. Was popular in his own right with Melee (probably the only character that can be argued for both FE and Smash popularity). Along with Marth and Ike, was intended to be in Brawl, but, like Mewtwo, was cut due to time constraints despite being close to being complete.

Ike - Popular character, and I believe IS suggested him for Brawl themselves.

That's fine and valid but there is no proof saying your interpretation is fact either. Where is the source for this time constraint idea? I know they have found models that look like Mewtwo and Roy in programming but that doesn't prove anything. Many times when they make a game they make it a lot bigger then it's suppose to be and then trim it to size. Elder Scrolls games are famous for it. Being that Brawl was a double layered disk it is very possible this what happen. I need a quote from Sakurai from a viable source to believe it was a time constraints.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's fine and valid but there is no proof saying your interpretation is fact either. Where is the source for this time constraint idea? I know they have found models that look like Mewtwo and Roy in programming but that doesn't prove anything. Many times when they make a game they make it a lot bigger then it's suppose to be and then trim it to size. Elder Scrolls games are famous for it. Being that Brawl was a double layered disk it is very possible this what happen. I need a quote from Sakurai from a viable source to believe it was time constraints.

The fact that there is so much dummy data found on the disc should imply that there were time constraints. Mewtwo and Roy had sound files that everyone but Wolf had. Mewtwo also had a classic mode portrait ready which then leads to the conclusion that there must have been time constraints.

If you want some further evidence, the CPU in Brawl+, which was untouched as far as I know, are so good with the hitstun increased which leads me to believe that Brawl had more hitstun across the board as opposed to the nigh nonexistent hitstun we have now.

There's also this little nugget on the SSE.

The taking of the battleship Halberd, as well as the scuffle between King Dedede and Meta Knight, were not shown in the game, because those scenes unfortunately had to be cut.

Of course, this may have been the product of Executive Meddling since this might've meant the game didn't start off with Mario.

 

[Gallowglass]

The fact that there is so much dummy data found on the disc should imply that there were time constraints. Mewtwo and Roy had sound files that everyone but Wolf had. Mewtwo also had a classic mode portrait ready which then leads to the conclusion that there must have been time constraints.

If you want some further evidence, the CPU in Brawl+, which was untouched as far as I know, are so good with the hitstun increased which leads me to believe that Brawl had more hitstun across the board as opposed to the nigh nonexistent hitstun we have now.

There's also this little nugget on the SSE.
Of course, this may have been the product of Executive Meddling since this might've meant the game didn't start off with Mario.

I'm sorry I don't understand how this is evidence of not getting around to it over doing it and then taking it out because of disk limitations.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wouldn't you say not getting around to something the same as not having the time for it in this sense?

 

[Gallowglass]

I'm still confused. I'm not trying to be a smart-a** I'm actually trying to understand your opinion.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Speaking of cut content, I'd love it if they made it so that every character had their own fanfare instead of one victory theme per universe. But I'm not sure where Sakurai was going with the battle damage textures. Yes, it'll make the fight more realistic but it would kinda feel depressing seeing a character you love to get bruises, messed up clothes/gear and look beaten up.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Master Rapier! Could you vote on my blog? ^^

Mewtwo needs to be back, revamped, and at least upper high tier. Snake like hitboxes, less lag, heavy weight, more speed, far more power. Better B moves and he's done. BOOM. All done. Ready to fight. Kicking nuts. Beating up some *****es. You get the idea...

The evidence of absence doesn't mean the absence of evidence.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Mewtwo is a first gen pokemon and with Pikachu, Jiggs, PK Trainer that slot is a bit flooded. He doesn't really add to anything other then fandom.

How the hell do you add "fandom" to a game?

Besides, he's unique and he's the only legendary Pokemon to ever be playable, I'd say he's made his fair share of contributions to Smash

 

[yani]

Personal fanfare's would be pretty cool

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Personal fanfare's would be pretty cool

I think so, too. I liked that they at least kept Meta's. MK with Kirby/D3's theme=akward MK victory.

 

[Deleted member]

That's fine and valid but there is no proof saying your interpretation is fact either. Where is the source for this time constraint idea? I know they have found models that look like Mewtwo and Roy in programming but that doesn't prove anything. Many times when they make a game they make it a lot bigger then it's suppose to be and then trim it to size. Elder Scrolls games are famous for it. Being that Brawl was a double layered disk it is very possible this what happen. I need a quote from Sakurai from a viable source to believe it was a time constraints.

"It's taken over three years to make Brawl but I actually stopped trying to include new ideas early on in the development," says Sakurai. "What happened over the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn't. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep things practical within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example... but sadly, I can't discuss which ones didn't make it!"

He doesn't literally say that Mewtwo and Roy were cut due to rime restraints, but given how he said there were ones that were cut within time constraints, and the fact Mewtwo and Roy have more unused data than any other cut character...
The only cut character that he gave an alternative reason for was Dixie Kong, because she was originally planned as a partner to Diddy Kong, but he couldn't make it work. (Thank God. Diddy's much better on his own.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How the hell do you add "fandom" to a game?

No kidding. A fandom is made ONLY by the fans. You can add something popular, but fandoms change and aren't concrete. Popularity may not be either, but no developer bothers to pay attention to a fandom, since most of it is really bad ideas. That, and popularity can be polled. Fandom can't. You can add a popular thing to anything. You can't add a fandom.

Besides, he's unique and he's the only legendary Pokemon to ever be playable, I'd say he's made his fair share of contributions to Smash

Mostly unique, but what contributions anyway? Besides being a playable Legendary? I mean, popular-wise, yes, being the most pathetic playable legend-esque character, yes. Not sure what else. Mainly, what story items...?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy and Dixie would be mad broken. Wobbling + Banana combos? Plus, Dixie's insane potential of broken recovery (which is why she needs to be lighter than Diddy)? Meta Knight would even cry.

 

[Big-Cat]

The only cut character that he gave an alternative reason for was Dixie Kong, because she was originally planned as a partner to Diddy Kong, but he couldn't make it work. (Thank God. Diddy's much better on his own.)

How do you know that? If you go by Diddy's argument, he could've been better off WITH Dixie.

 

[---]

Based off of Adventure Mode, the mysterious domain of Subspace returns.

As with previous stages based on the Smash series, this stage is nothing special and is quite basic. The only thing going on is the swirling purple background and two platforms that respectively move vertically and horizontally.

Stage Example:

<----->
....^....
....--....
.....v....
______

-- = Pass through platform
__ = Main stage

Stage Name: Subspace
Stage Icon: Smash Logo/SSE Army Icon

Super Smash Bros Brawl - Step Subspace
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Step Subspace Ver.2
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Step Subspace Ver. 3
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Vs. Galleom/Duon
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Vs. Tabuu
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Step The Cave
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Adventure Map
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Coin Launcher
Super Smash Bros Brawl - Credits

Credit also goes to Iblis for helping me out with the layout

 

[Deleted member]

Character-wise, he's better alone because both Diddy and Dixie are capable enough without relying on the other. (You wouldn't pair Luigi to Mario and make them the Mario Bros., would you?)

Gameplay-wise, Diddy would've lost his Bananas, which are an integral part to why he's as good as he is.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Too good in fact. And actually, I wouldn't want Diddy to chance much. But with the potential of glide tossing, DACUS and the like being gone, I kinda hope he might get a different down B, and a bit more speed on the Fair, and a little better overall power on kill moves. And a little more initial height when using Up B. Bananas make his game pretty much right now, and if they get removed he needs a little extra to be able to stay good. Maybe also the tail swinging attack from DK64 (aerial) for his N air? To cover more range on his moves as well. AAA can be changed into a longer ranged tail whip to. Like how he gets up the stage under 100% damage

No mather what, I'm gonna stay maining Diddy whichever character gets in so... He better stay good!

 

[KrIsP!]

How the hell do you add "fandom" to a game?

you could try to be like Valve and force a hoop. anyone know about hoopy the hoop? No? Exactly...cause memes are accidents and the cake is a pie.

 

[yani]

A SSE stage would be nice, well done ---

 

[Deleted member]

I like it. Provided Subspace doesn't return for the story, I wouldn't mind a Subspace stage.

EDIT: I know he isn't Palutena or Medusa, but I kind of want this guy in...

Spoiler

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Ya know, I can NOT stop hearing Fourside's music. I just love it so much...
It just keeps playing over and over again in my mind.

 

[Big-Cat]

I like it. Provided Subspace doesn't return for the story, I wouldn't mind a Subspace stage.

EDIT: I know he isn't Palutena or Medusa, but I kind of want this guy in...

Spoiler

Seems like perfect Assist Trophy material to me. It'd be pretty fun to see Samus as just an egg plant with legs.

Sexy legs. Crap, I might've just spawned a new fetish.

 

[Deleted member]

Great, leave it to a bear to spawn a vegetable fetish....

EDIT: Just kidding, man. Not trying to offend you in any way.

 

[Big-Cat]

None taken.

*Pictures Eggplant Samus and Eggplant Nana making out.*

 

[Deleted member]

That, along with your avatar makes for a disturbing image....lol....

 

[Johnknight1]

Friend codes were already deconfirmed for Wii U, thank Jebus

This should be posted at the top of everyone's posts. Thank Our Lord God, Shigeru Miyamoto! "Blessed be the name of Miyamoto, blessed be your naaaa-meee!!!"

No, it was all about the fact Galaxy was in development before Brawl, and released before Brawl, yet nothing about Mario Galaxy was added to Brawl. Even though it was pretty damn straight from the start it was gonna bomb.

Actually there is Rosalina Assist Trophy data in Brawl that was unused/incomplete. Truthfully, I think Sakurai chose to make a Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Bros, Mario Bros, Luigi's Mansion, and Donkey Kong stage over a Super Mario Galaxy stage. I think Sakurai decided a Super Mario Galaxy stage would be a better fit for a Wii U, DS, or 3DS smash bros game.

I think Megaman is single handedly the most boring third party choice we have left.

Mega Buster, Copy Abilities, Somthing involving his animal buddies. Moveset. I call it.

Mega Man has robot buddies silly. Also, play Mega Man 1-3. Those games are AMAZING! If those don't make you want to play as Mega Man, nothing will! Add in the fact those of us "old people" can't visualize Nintendo without its' biggest 3rd party character on the NES/Famicom, *the fighting robot* MEGA MANN!!!

ROB would fit under that category and he got in.

ROB helped popularize and sell the NES in North America, which ultimately helped end the North American Video Game Crash of 1981, and made Nintendo a major and permanent force in North America. Without ROB, there may well not be a Nintendo in North America, and video games may not be very popular in North America. Consider that.

Dixie's insane potential of broken recovery (which is why she needs to be lighter than Diddy)? Meta Knight would even cry.

Nah, just make Dixie Kong not have many kill options, no legitimate early kill moves, and no bananas (like Diddy Kong). A solo Dixie Kong with that could be very balanced.

Seems like perfect Assist Trophy material to me. It'd be pretty fun to see Samus as just an egg plant with legs.

Sexy legs. Crap, I might've just spawned a new fetish.

Kuma.. that was disgusting. Keep that crap to yourself... C'MON MANN!!!!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Eggplants with legs. Not my kinda taste...

Also, did y'all know, the StarFox characters have no legs??

 

[Big-Cat]

Ok, I'm gonna repost this. This might be a better time since people can sleep on the discussion.

Should Samus/Zamus and Zelda/Sheik be broken up into separate slots?

Rules:
1. Do not take take into account who these characters are or their series of origin.
2. Focus on the playstyles, not the characters.
3. You must argue for or against the transformations for strictly gameplay reasons.
4. Importance in Smash or in their respective series is irrelevant.
5. Do not take into account who these characters are or their series of origin.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know what my opinion is about Zelda. But I think Samus and ZSS should remain the same. For the same character it makes sence to me to share the spot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As long as you can change back to Samus using the taunt system, we're good. Also, being able to select which character via their picture is nice. It should apply to them all.

No examples needed.

 

[yani]

I think being able to pick ZSS on the character screen would be cool, same slot

 

[Johnknight1]

Speaking of cut content, I'd love it if they made it so that every character had their own fanfare instead of one victory theme per universe.

Agreed. This was only done with for Meta Knight. It's like the God tier character got all the special treatment. Does this mean Sakurai saw this coming=???

But I'm not sure where Sakurai was going with the battle damage textures. Yes, it'll make the fight more realistic but it would kinda feel depressing seeing a character you love to get bruises, messed up clothes/gear and look beaten up.

Something tells me that was for Stamina mode, for characters after they get hit by a Final Smash attack, or even for when a character is at 300% damage or higher.

Ya know, I can NOT stop hearing Fourside's music. I just love it so much...
It just keeps playing over and over again in my mind.

Have you played EarthBound=??? I think the classic EarthBound version of that song is the best, hands down.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think being able to pick ZSS on the character screen would be cool, same slot

I hated that you couldn't. It was also more annoying trying to switch to her no matter what method you used.

 

[Johnknight1]

Zero Suit Samus definitely needs to appear on the character select screen alongside Samus. That way we can clearly see what color/outfit we are selecting. I think that really Brawl's menu solution with transformations or "switch" characters (viva Sheik/Zelda and the Pokémon Trainer plus his Pokémon) should remain permanent, and should apply to all such transformation and switch characters. The PT/Shelda really made this possible.

Pretty much it was a FANTASTIC idea! Anything that allows for easier access menu-wise is a good idea, no matter what.

 

[Oasis_S]

Rules:
1. Do not take take into account who these characters are or their series of origin.
2. Focus on the playstyles, not the characters.
3. You must argue for or against the transformations for strictly gameplay reasons.
4. Importance in Smash or in their respective series is irrelevant.
5. Do not take into account who these characters are or their series of origin.

What stopped you from making #6?

"You must not argue against the idea."

 

[Big-Cat]

You know what my opinion is about Zelda. But I think Samus and ZSS should remain the same. For the same character it makes sence to me to share the spot.

As long as you can change back to Samus using the taunt system, we're good. Also, being able to select which character via their picture is nice. It should apply to them all.

No examples needed.

I said that this was about playstyles, not characters. Try again, you two.

And maybe I should've been clear by what I meant by having their own slots. I meant this: THE CHARACTERS ARE BROKEN UP. THEY CANNOT BE SWAPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH. SAMUS CANNOT BECOME ZAMUS AND ZAMUS CANNOT BECOME SAMUS. ZELDA CANNOT BECOME SHEIK AND SHEIK CANNOT BECOME ZELDA. This is the premise of the discussion.

 

[Luco]

Marth can have Leaf
Krom can have Ike
Roy can have Eliwood
Lucas can have Claus
Ness can have Ninten
Zelda and Impa can have TP Zelda and OoT Shiek
Isaac can have Matthew
Saki can have Isa Jo
Falcon can have Blood Falcon
Goroh can have Pico/Shadow
Change Prince Fluff to Yarn Kirby?
Solid Snake can have Naked Snake?... or whatever his name is
Also, Leaf over Gary, come now.

I never knewq you were an Impa supporter shortie. Fair enough....

Also, from ages back, but I guess brawl really was meant to be a party game, it was meant to appeal to casual audiences, and I suppose thats ok. I don't know what I'm hoping for in the next game, but whether or not it's like brawl, chances are i'll like it. Smash bros is just that type of fighter for me, I guess.

Agreed. This was only done with for Meta Knight. It's like the God tier character got all the special treatment. Does this mean Sakurai saw this coming=???

I actually seem to recall that there was evidence for more character victory tracks in the game but that they were scrapped for some mysterious unknown reason *spooky music*

 

[Johnknight1]

I got a fun idea guys: What if all transformations was down on the control pad instead of the B down button=???

That way we could have a new special attack for each of the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon and a new special attack for Zelda and Sheik (and allow for an easy change from Samus to Zero Suit Samus and vice versa). Personally, I would love this idea for those characters. However, I think that if you play as Zero Suit Samus and Samus, I still think you should only be able to change to the other once (their transformations from Final Smashes aside, of course). I think Zero Suit Samus and Samus work better alone or with only one transformation each, unlike the other two transformation characters, who I think should be a "team."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, a lot of think Impa would be awesome in SSB4. It's just the replacing Sheik part we don't agree with.

Anyway, it's true. Meta Knight got pretty much everything. Hell, he's the most important character in the SSE in general. The rest are bit players.