New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Diddy Kong]

SS designs = no Sheik. Just sayin.

I feel its far more logical to use 3DS OOT designs for 3DS, and Wii U have updated, polished SS looks.

If Sheik returns on the 3DS, and we have Impa on Wii U I'd also be happy. How you guys feel bout this?

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Golden- Better yet, let's have the Red Guy from Cow and Chicken


Just searched up Mewtwo's Japanese voice in Melee

This is why Mewtwo is the most badass Pokemon in history

 

[Deleted member]

SS designs = no Sheik. Just sayin.

I feel its far more logical to use 3DS OOT designs for 3DS, and Wii U have updated, polished SS looks.

If Sheik returns on the 3DS, and we have Impa on Wii U I'd also be happy. How you guys feel bout this?

Most likely, it's going to be Wii U designs.
If Ganondorf was designed from the Space World tech demo for Melee (including his sword), then the Wii U tech demo should hint at what the Zelda characters would look like.

@Metal: We've already met out pantsless quota with Diddy Kong.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Cool with that, but if Impa isn't in that game, she could have a SS revamp design. It's pretty very likely Sheik won't be in that game either, and a SS character itself isn't a bad idea I feel. Also, remember Mario Galaxy being in development, but Sunshine still being the new game to inspire Mario for Brawl? Ganon still looked lots like his OOT design without the long hair in Melee though. Sucks, cause it looked cool on him.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I liked Ganondorf's Melee design better

 

[yani]

If we get a character specifically for SS, it will most likely be Ghirahim

 

[Johnknight1]

Anyways, here's my updated Roster. It has less Krystal and more Little Mac.
Like the other, there is a Rockman version as well.

This is... this is BEAUTIFUL! THIS IS ART!!! TAKE MY MONEY SAKURAI! The original 12, 12/14 Melee additions, 17/17 Brawl character, and 11 quality newcomers!!! 9.8/10.

SS designs = no Sheik. Just sayin.

Cel-shaded graphicalo character models are extremely easy to make, ya know=??? Which is why this character would be a perfect third transformation for Zelda...

 

[Deleted member]

Cool with that, but if Impa isn't in that game, she could have a SS revamp design. It's pretty very likely Sheik won't be in that game either, and a SS character itself isn't a bad idea I feel. Also, remember Mario Galaxy being in development, but Sunshine still being the new game to inspire Mario for Brawl? Ganon still looked lots like his OOT design without the long hair in Melee though. Sucks, cause it looked cool on him.

The exact design was taken from the Space World demo, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtAvX4Pkyk

And again, just because Sheik doesn't appear in the Wii U game doesn't mean she's likely to be cut.
Again, if relevance was the key issue, Sakurai would've dropped Sheik in Brawl because she didn't appear in Twilight Princess (don't give me the "they had a unused design" excuse. Sakurai ASKED for a design on how Sheik would be TP styled, and they HAPPENED to have an unused design.). Sheik didn't appear in Wind Waker either, and Sakurai was going to have a "Toon Sheik" (not Tetra. If Sakurai felt it was necessary to give Toon Link the same moves as Link, then he felt the same about Toon Zelda. And again, the file says "Toon Sheik", not "Tetra".).

Case in point = Sakurai couldn't give any less of a **** about Sheik's relevance in the Zelda series. He finds her important to Zelda's character and playstyle.
Sakurai's beliefs > Our own.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

To change this dreadfully old conversation, which I'm sure no one wants to hear yet again, let's talk about something else.


Character Entrances onto the stage. What do you guys think some potential newcomers would do?

Example: Muddy Mole pops out of the ground and waves at the screen.

Starfy gets thrown out of the Bunneran ship(which lands in the background). He smashes into the stage, gets up, and gets into fighting stance.

 

[Aurane]

GREAT FLAMING EYEBROWS!!!
Aku for Sm4sh. He's even got a moveset to use from Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion XL.
People wanted Deoxys for his shapeshiftiness, Aku would be even better.
Especially since he's THE MASTER OF MASTERS, THE DELIVERER OF DARKNESS, THE SHOGUN OF SORROW!

JK. Though Aku would be pretty sweet.

Anyways, here's my updated Roster. It has less Krystal and more Little Mac.
Like the other, there is a Rockman version as well.

Actually, Aku fits standards, so... Aku 4 Sm4sh

As for your Roster... Needs moar Victinis and less Zorobarks. If you got Lucario/Mewtwo, then no sense in having Zoroark.

Also, to all talking about Impa:
Headshot'd

 

[Deleted member]

And why is that?
Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark are nothing alike.
Hell, Mewtwo and Lucario are more like each other than Zoroark is to either.
Even in how they fight: Mewtwo is a fighter that relies on its psychic powers and freakishly large tail. Lucario is a fighter that relies on mystical energy and direct hand to hand combat. Zoroark is a fighter that relies on its claws and power of illusion. Zoroark would be more similar to Wolf in attacks than either Mewtwo or Lucario.

 

[Aurane]

And why is that?
Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark are nothing alike.
Hell, Mewtwo and Lucario are more like each other than Zoroark is to either.
Even in how they fight: Mewtwo is a fighter that relies on its psychic powers and freakishly large tail. Lucario is a fighter that relies on mystical energy and direct hand to hand combat. Zoroark is a fighter that relies on its claws and power of illusion. Zoroark would be more similar to Wolf in attacks than either Mewtwo or Lucario.

Not the point. The point is that Victini>Zoroark. I rest my case.

*Closes breifcase, and then eats your dinner*

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I want the ability to choose 64-player tourneys again. That is all and completely unrelated is this post!

 

[Johnknight1]

Everyone knows Zoroark would be a Samus clone, and Mega Man would be a Mario clone...

No really, I think Zoroark could be original. Zoroark has a great and unique potential fighting style that could really work wel. However, I think that Victini's different body shape and Victini's particular style fits smash "better" in my opinion. Plus I want some lightweight/mid-lightweight (Paper Mario, Victini, Dixie Kong) newcomers to counter the heavyweight/mid-heavyweight newcomers I want (Samurai Goroh, King K. Rool, Ridley, a slightly heavier Roy and much heavier Mewtwo).

I dunno, for what I want in smash, Victini just fits... better. Victini would balance what I want in a roster more. I would be fine with Victini or Zoroark, though. That is, unless they had a poor design, like Mewtwo had in Melee (or Meta Knight in Brawl, or Snake's hitboxes in Brawl).

 

[Aurane]

Everyone knows Zoroark would be a Samus clone, and Mega Man would be a Mario clone...

No really, I think Zoroark could be original. Zoroark has a great and unique potential fighting style that could really work wel. However, I think that Victini's different body shape and Victini's particular style fits smash "better" in my opinion. Plus I want some lightweight/mid-lightweight (Paper Mario, Victini, Dixie Kong) newcomers to counter the heavyweight/mid-heavyweight newcomers I want (Samurai Goroh, King K. Rool, Ridley, a slightly heavier Roy and much heavier Mewtwo).

I dunno, for what I want in smash, Victini just fits... better. Victini would balance what I want in a roster more. I would be fine with Victini or Zoroark, though, unless they had a poor design (like Mewtwo in Melee).

Victini holds more personality than mama bear werewolf over there. Everyone knows Victini= Martinis, and Zoroarks= Barks. Barks get annoying, while Martinis are controlable. OBVIOUSLY Victini 4 Sm4sh

 

[Deleted member]

I don't see how Victini's design "fits" more, but whatever.
ivysaur

Anyways, I think people are looking at the illusions wrong. Illusions are made to trick the mind into thinking they are in pain, as shown in Zoroark's movie. (Entei, Suicune, and Raikou really believed that they were being trapped by thorny vines. If they didn't, they would've noticed right away that it was fake.)
So attack illusions would actually hurt opponents because they THINK they're being hurt, or whatever. Just my theory.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This is what Mewtwo says in Japanese.

 

[Aurane]

I don't see how Victini's design "fits" more, but whatever.
ivysaur

Anyways, I think people are looking at the illusions wrong. Illusions are made to trick the mind into thinking they are in pain, as shown in Zoroark's movie. (Entei, Suicune, and Raikou really believed that they were being trapped by thorny vines. If they didn't, they would've noticed right away that it was fake.)
So attack illusions would actually hurt opponents because they THINK they're being hurt, or whatever. Just my theory.

Zoroark has the power to get into Sm4sh, but Victini has more opportunity to get into sm4sh. Once Zoroark loses fame somehow, Victini will be an ultimate choice. At present time, the only arguement is Zoroark's popularity. But Victini is a favored Pokemon by the chairman of Pokemon, so that, alone, is a huge boost.

Also, yes, I knew about Illusion. I AM the Pokemon expert here

@Poppy XD "Why am I here?" Sounds like something Shadow the Hedgehog would say XD

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't see how Victini's design "fits" more, but whatever.
ivysaur

Anyways, I think people are looking at the illusions wrong. Illusions are made to trick the mind into thinking they are in pain, as shown in Zoroark's movie. (Entei, Suicune, and Raikou really believed that they were being trapped by thorny vines. If they didn't, they would've noticed right away that it was fake.)
So attack illusions would actually hurt opponents because they THINK they're being hurt, or whatever. Just my theory.

No, I mean Victini's overall move scheme, play style, and especially weight class would create a "more balanced" roster. That last point is why I want Victini over Zoroark. Other than that, I really sway from one to another (Victini to Zoroark, and vice versa). You know, like you need "equal" super featherweight light character and super anvil heavy characters. I think Victini would be one of the ligthest characters. I think with Pichu cut, smash could use another "super light" character.

Does that make sense=??? I dunno, I just always thought Brawl needed more lightweight characters. Given that Ridley and K. Rool are probably going to be in this game (along with Mewtwo most likely [and hopefully] getting re-added), I think lightweight characters are needed even more to create that "heavy vs. light" "balance."

 

[Pachinkosam]

asage94 y u change avi D:

 

[Aurane]

asage94 y u change avi D:

Because it's friggin awesome? Sniper Lucario????

 

[Deleted member]

Still doesn't really make sense to me. But when it all comes down to it, it's more of a preference thing. I'd prefer Zoroark just because it's the closest thing to Entei as I'll ever get, and because I found her to be badass in her movie.
But again, it's a preference thing.

 

[Big-Cat]

Gerro TAKKOO BEWWLLLL!!!!
But for realZ, keep Star Fox based off Star Fox, Star Fox 64, and Star Fox 64 3D. Outfits and looks for Fox, Falco, and Wolf from the other games can be alternate costumes.

Well the Street Fighter IV and MvC3 crowd were almost universally nice to the smash community. It's the "we play retro SFII, which makes us cool" folks that annoy the smash community. I remember I went to a Brawl tournament at San Francisco State and there was a Street Fighter III tournament down the way. Some guy was talking about how awesome the game was like it was a religion or some hipster fashion, as one of the best Melee Links in the world (whose' name escapes me now) walked by, who was buff as heck, decked out in tattoos, and was pretty dang funny!

We can't keep ourselves in the past. I'd rather see an evolution of their design than just a rehash for the Starfox characters. Elements from anything but Command (sans Falco and possibly Wolf) could work for everyone. IIRC, the Command art style came about because the Japanese fans didn't like the realistic style. I still think Adventures looked the best since the fur wasn't turned into plastic.

And for the 3S fans, I can agree that they can seem borderline hipster. I just can't like it because of the parry system they love so much.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Wall of text incoming...

I'm just gonna come out and admit it: I really want Dr. Mario back.

I know people are gonna be like, "Oh, he's unnecessary, oh he's just filler material, oh he's a clone and Paper Mario is better". Which, maybe he doesn't really need his own slot, but that doesn't stop me at all from wanting him. And, you know what? I don't think clones are all that bad. Now, don't get it twisted, I'm not promoting laziness or a ****load of clones to get a spot on the roster in any way, but I feel like if done right, clones can be awesome, if you know what I mean. This is exactly how I felt with Doc. He had the same moveset, but I enjoyed playing as him much more than I did with Mario. Unlike Mario, I felt like there was a lot more personality within Doc's character, with his pills and taunts and unlock screen and whatnot. It's hard to explain, but I felt like there was a little more care woven into this "filler character" than even some of the established characters. Also, as we all know, Mario is the de facto "jack of all trades" character in Smash. A lot of times, these types of characters vary little in between games; except for maybe a few tweaks or move changing, their overall playstyle stays the same. So, in my opinion, Doc felt more like a fresh take on an established character than just a "filler character".

With that in mind, if Doc returns, I personally want him to stay the exact same way he was in Melee. Yep, that's right, as a "clony" clone. And I want him as his own character, I don't wanna see some copout solution such as making him an AT, or even worse, making him an alt costume. I see a lot of people suggest this and I just don't feel like it's the right way to bring him back. Not just the obvious facts that I don't want to see him use fireballs instead of pills and that I don't want to see him use the FLUDD instead of the Dr. Tornado, but I'd like him to have his own Target Test again and his own taunts and animations and whatnot. I want to see the "personality" that I talked about earlier brought back and expanded on. I doubt most of these wants that I have would be realized if he turned out to be just an alt, but that's just me.

I see a lot of these characters thrown around in this thread like Bowser Jr and Lip and Starfy, and they just don't interest me much as playable characters. Sure, I figure, with their resume, they're "worthy" of a spot on the roster, but when it comes right down to it, if/when these characters get into Smash, are you going to actually enjoy playing as them? Are you going to actually main these characters and have fun with them? Not saying the characters I listed are bad choices or that they will, in fact, play like ***, but they just don't interest me much as Doc. If I see a DOJO update in the future confirming Starfy as a playable character, it's not gonna shock me or hype me up for Smash 4 as other characters like Mewtwo and K. Rool and Doc would if they were the ones confirmed as playable characters.

So, with all that said, maybe it's just nostalgia and the fact I grew up playing with Doc in Melee is clouding my judgment, and maybe chances are he won't come back as a playable character at least, but I don't really give a ****. I'd like one of my mains back. I'd like Dr. Mario back

/rant

 

[Deleted member]

How about as an alternate selection like what's on my Roster?
Selected AS an alternate costume, but with his own name and his Melee differences from Mario intact. He shares a slot with Mario, but still feels like a different character.

Alternatively, he could instead work like Zero Suit Samus does in Brawl or Sheik does in Melee, where you hold a button after selecting Mario, and you get Dr. Mario when the match starts.

Red Mario -> White Dr. Mario (Red Dr. Mario on Team Battle)
Blue Mario -> Blue Dr. Mario
Green Mario -> Green Dr. Mario
White Mario -> Red Dr. Mario
Black Mario -> Black Dr. Mario
Yellow Mario -> Whatever 6th Color Dr. Mario

This way, we Dr. Mario fans get Dr. Mario as he was in Melee, and the people that can't stand to see Dr. Mario on the same Roster screen as Mario don't have to see him.

 

[Big-Cat]

I see a lot of these characters thrown around in this thread like Bowser Jr and Lip and Starfy, and they just don't interest me much as playable characters. Sure, I figure, with their resume, they're "worthy" of a spot on the roster, but when it comes right down to it, if/when these characters get into Smash, are you going to actually enjoy playing as them? Are you going to actually main these characters and have fun with them? Not saying the characters I listed are bad choices or that they will, in fact, play like ***, but they just don't interest me much as Doc. If I see a DOJO update in the future confirming Starfy as a playable character, it's not gonna shock me or hype me up for Smash 4 as other characters like Mewtwo and K. Rool and Doc would if they were the ones confirmed as playable characters.

This is pretty much my gripe with the character speculation in this thread. Thankfully, YOU remember that this is a game and gameplay comes first.

On the subject of Dr. Mario, my concern has to do with whether or not he can contribute much to the game without either being a rehash or an in-name (i.e. Lucas) only character. I wonder if SFxTK's gem system could give you this hint of personality you're looking for.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Alternate characters? Like in DBZ: Budokai?

Now THAT'S the best solution I've seen for Doc

@Kuma- I'd love something like that, too

 

[Aurane]

For costumes, I think it should be for everyone. Example: Miis can change clothing in alot of games, including M&S. Maybe they should add more and more clothing via DLC. Finally, I'd make a Sniper Lucario, without the Sniper Rifle obviously ._.

 

[Big-Cat]

@GY
The problem with changing the stats is that you're adding another character into the balancing process.

 

[Deleted member]

Alternate characters? Like in DBZ: Budokai?

Now THAT'S the best solution I've seen for Doc

@Kuma- I'd love something like that, too

Yup, he could also work like the Gohans in Budokai 1 (haven't played Budokai 2 or 3, and I don't count the Tenkaichis as "Budokai" games because they're only "Budokai's" in marketing.)

Or Mizuki in Naruto Clash of Ninja 2. (Press a certain button when selecting Iruka selects Mizuki instead)

 

[Deleted member]

@GY
The problem with changing the stats is that you're adding another character into the balancing process.

Your point?

EDIT: Damn double post.

 

[Aurane]

@GY Having Dr. Mario and Mario was proved a mistake. It's risky bringing back such an ill-popular character. What if they messed up again? Which is why I'm 50/50 towards Pichu.

Dr.Mario is better as an alt. Costume. Just sayin'.

 

[Deleted member]

@GY Having Dr. Mario and Mario was proved a mistake. It's risky bringing back such an ill-popular character. What if they messed up again? Which is why I'm 50/50 towards Pichu.

Exactly where was it proven that it was a "mistake"? Clearly Sakurai didn't think so, or he wouldn't have planned Dr. Mario for Brawl.
PICHU on the other hand, was a mistake in his eyes, which is why he wasn't planned for Brawl, nor was given a true replacement like Young Link was.

EDIT: Again, Sakurai already said that he wouldn't work as an alt costume.
My method makes it to where people can't ***** about Dr. Mario "taking a slot" because he doesn't.
He'd just be a bonus character that can be used by the ones that want to use him.

 

[Aurane]

Exactly where was it proven that it was a "mistake"? Clearly Sakurai didn't think so, or he wouldn't have planned Dr. Mario for Brawl.
PICHU on the other hand, was a mistake in his eyes, which is why he wasn't planned for Brawl, nor was given a true replacement like Young Link was.

Dr.Mario was an exact copy of Mario. The only difference was Cape, Pill, and costume. Not many people liked that. Not to mention his Cape move made no sense whatsoever. Like I said, alt costume or highway with him. Not saying it'll actually happen, but still.

EDIT: Classic Wario = Wario WW. I see no problems except the Fireball VS Pill.

 

[Big-Cat]

Your point?

EDIT: Damn double post.

It just doesn't seem like doing the extra work for a character that is a variation of another as balancing takes a long enough time as it is. I would prefer something that is strictly aesthetic.

 

[Pichu Fan]

Some costume ideas-

Mario- Dr Mario
Luigi- Mr L
Peach- Tennis wear
Toon Link- Young link (same size, make bow fire bow, works)
Marth- Roy (I dunno)
Pikachu- Pichu (only problem is size, can work around that I guess)
Ganandorf- wind waker ganandorf
Sonic- Metal sonic
Snake- Naked snake

Theres lots of possibilities

 

[Aurane]

Some costume ideas-

Mario- Dr Mario
Fireball VS Pill
Luigi- Mr L
Eh, Idk the character enough to say nething.
Peach- Tennis wear
Ditto.
Toon Link- Young link (same size, make bow fire bow, works)
There are WAY too many differences between both TL and YL in graphic art, so this can't work.
Marth- Roy (I dunno)
<-> Size/body style?
Pikachu- Pichu (only problem is size, can work around that I guess)
Pichu's Ears and tail would royally mess up, along with sound font and body style.
Ganandorf- wind waker ganandorf
Same as TL and YL.
Sonic- Metal sonic
Hmm... 50/50 on this one.
Snake- Naked snake
Very possible, actually.

Theres lots of possibilities

Answers underlined.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Some costume ideas-

Mario- Dr Mario
Luigi- Mr L
Peach- Tennis wear
Toon Link- Young link (same size, make bow fire bow, works)
Marth- Roy (I dunno)
Pikachu- Pichu (only problem is size, can work around that I guess)
Ganandorf- wind waker ganandorf
Sonic- Metal sonic
Snake- Naked snake

Theres lots of possibilities

The only way I see Mr. L becoming playable in any way is if we get Paper Luigi(which I completely doubt). He might be a trophy, sticker, or AT.
Sakurai said Doc would NOT be a costume change.

 

[Aurane]

@Poppy Then if Dr. Mario gets in, he better make sense. Which brings my next givings.

Wolf has a landmaster, Falcon has two guns and only uses one, Ganondorf has a sword and still (B) copies (sort of) from C.Falcon...

Some things need to change for better sense. And worst of all is that these things can be fixed

 

[Deleted member]

Dr.Mario was an exact copy of Mario. The only difference was Cape, Pill, and costume. Not many people liked that. Not to mention his Cape move made no sense whatsoever. Like I said, alt costume or highway with him. Not saying it'll actually happen, but still.

EDIT: Classic Wario = Wario WW. I see no problems except the Fireball VS Pill.

Unless you've actually played both Mario and Dr. Mario extensively like Metal Overlord and I have, you are in no way to label Doc. Dr. Mario has gameplay differences within his moves that overall give him a different feel than Mario.
There's a reason why Doc isn't in the exact same spot as Mario is on the Tier List, which he would be if he was an exact copy.
Going by that what you classify as an "exact copy", Falco should be labeled an exact copy of Fox in Melee. Only difference are properties in his moves and the fact he's a pheasant, not a fox. They even wear the same costume.

And really, what is the problem with him being an alternate selection from Mario? I always thought people just hated the idea of Doc taking his own slot, now the problem is that "he shouldn't be any more than just a simple costume for Mario with no differences whatsoever"? Sounds pretty selfish, if you ask me.

@Kuma: Bear in mind that Sakurai's not the only one doing the balancing this time. It should go much smoother.