New Smash Bros for WiiU

[yani]

If no one switches between Zelda/Sheik, no one will switch from Zelda/Impa either. If they were to split up, Sheik is definitely better off getting her own spot as opposed to Impa

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm 99% sure everyone in Brawl from Melee is safe. I would be okay with a Zelda/Sheik split (Giving Sheik her own slot) but that's it. It's also unlikely because the charm of Zelda's character is the transformation

Is it really her charm? Considering that people tend to play as one or the other, I fail to see how that's her charm. You wanna know what's probably more of a charm than her "gimmicky" transformation? How about that she's a defensive character with a controllable fireball, disjointed and transcendent hitboxes, etc. Sheik has speed, mixups, a multi-hitting projectile, a tether recovery, etc.

As the way they are, the Pokemon Trainer and Zelda/Sheik transformation schtick is nothing more than an inefficient gimmick. You could make the Pokemon Trainer's thing more charming by making it possible to synergize the Pokemon Trainer pokemon. Just look at all the tag fighters out there that make it work and it is indeed possible.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, as Impa is actually her own character she is much better for her own spot.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Holy ****ing ****. I'll just save my ideas and discussion for when all this **** calms down, then.

And pardon my ****ing asterisks; I'm just tired of this goddamn back and forth.

 

[yani]

Is it really her charm? Considering that people tend to play as one or the other, I fail to see how that's her charm. You wanna know what's probably more of a charm than her "gimmicky" transformation? How about that she's a defensive character with a controllable fireball, disjointed and transcendent hitboxes, etc. Sheik has speed, mixups, a multi-hitting projectile, a tether recovery, etc.

You answered your own question really.. You have the option to switch between those two on command

As the way they are, the Pokemon Trainer and Zelda/Sheik transformation schtick is nothing more than an inefficient gimmick. You could make the Pokemon Trainer's thing more charming by making it possible to synergize the Pokemon Trainer pokemon. Just look at all the tag fighters out there that make it work and it is indeed possible.

Gimmick? Maybe. Inefficient? No (Zelda at least, PT is another story )

I really don't care for other fights tbh, which is why I love Smash, it isn't like other fights, so I can't really comment on the tag fighter stuff. Sakurai felt the need to give Zelda the transformation, and it happened. That's the bottom line really. If he thought it was a bad idea, he would've changed it for Brawl

No, as Impa is actually her own character she is much better for her own spot.

Assuming we get a SS Zelda , Sheik would be better for her own spot IMO so we have a true rep for the greatest Zelda game ever..

 

[Diddy Kong]

In Melee, nobody who plays Sheik would ever THINK of switching to Zelda. It's fatal. And in Brawl, transforming takes way too long to be effective.

Greatest Zelda game is A Link To The Past to most fans. If you want your Ocarina rep, have Ganondorf.

 

[Big-Cat]

You answered your own question really.. You have the option to switch between those two on command

Can you really say that's fair though? It's one thing if Zelda was similar to Litchi Faye-Ling from BlazBlue as she switches from fighting with and without a staff that can be swapped in and out of mid-combo. Last I checked though, her two "forms" are never treated as separate characters, unlike Zelda and Sheik.

Litchi is balanced with her having to use both "forms" in order to get anywhere. Zelda/Sheik on the other hand, has just ended up with people using one or the other which goes against the good design of a switching character.

Gimmick? Maybe. Inefficient? No (Zelda at least, PT is another story )

I really don't care for other fights tbh, which is why I love Smash, it isn't like other fights, so I can't really comment on the tag fighter stuff. Sakurai felt the need to give Zelda the transformation, and it happened. That's the bottom line really. If he thought it was a bad idea, he would've changed it for Brawl

It's inefficient no matter how you look at it. Ever noticed that people almost never transform/switch in the head of battle? It's suicide if you choose to do so as you're left wide open to a charged Smash attack. And we don't know his reasoning behind keeping the transformation. It could've been a few reasons such as preserving the Sheik playstyle but didn't see a reason to separate the two, thought he'd give the design another shot (and they are definitely closer on the tier list), time constraints, or whatever.

So you like Smash because it's not like other fighters? Please, go in depth.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Greatest Zelda game is A Link To The Past to most fans. If you want your Ocarina rep, have Ganondorf.

http://www.ign.com/tournaments/greatest-zelda-game

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't think IGN counts as a Zelda fansite? Neither are they even reliable. And, ALTTP is not on that list even.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

ALTTP is in fact on the list and post me a link to a poll/tournament/whatever from multiple Zelda fan sites and from them we can gather the general consensus. I'll look for some too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Greatest Zelda is mostly given to OOT, but that doesn't mean its not overrated. Fan favorite is still mostly ALTTP, if not Majora's Mask.

Still, Sheik's role in OOT was nothing big to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

No, its strictly Zelda or Sheik for most. With some novelity players playing both, which are the vast minority.

They are already basically two different characters since the Melee days.

Hence we have sub boards separate for Zelda and Sheik.

I'm pretty sure the competitive community makes up like 1% of the community and that is being generous. Most casual gamers (who are obviously the vast majority) are going to like playing as both in the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, but there are plenty casuals on this board to, and many casuals I know don't switch either. They just don't. Nobody switches. I'll bet that out of 10 Zelda and 10 Sheik mains, maybe one of them switches.

 

[yani]

Litchi is balanced with her having to use both "forms" in order to get anywhere. Zelda/Sheik on the other hand, has just ended up with people using one or the other which goes against the good design of a switching character.

I don't know about these games so I can't say much, but the point of Zelda/Sheik is to use them when needed. That was Sakurai's intent.

It's inefficient no matter how you look at it. Ever noticed that people almost never transform/switch in the head of battle? It's suicide if you choose to do so as you're left wide open to a charged Smash attack. And we don't know his reasoning behind keeping the transformation. It could've been a few reasons such as preserving the Sheik playstyle but didn't see a reason to separate the two, thought he'd give the design another shot (and they are definitely closer on the tier list), time constraints, or whatever.

Again, you're able to switch when you NEED to, you don't have to switch when there's someone right next to you. It even comes in handy to dodge a final smash as stated on the Dojo..

So you like Smash because it's not like other fighters? Please, go in depth.

I won't lose every single match online because I don't have button combos memorized, that's really it. It's a simple game.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

When you think about it, it has to be atleast a sizable group of competitives that switch or else no one would have fought for a combined spot on the tier list and one would never have been granted.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's only brought up for Brawl as combined use of Zelda and Sheik brings better results, slightly. That is, people who use both characters, not in the middle of the match or anything. They just use the other to get advantage over the other character. Mostly when being counter picked. It's a rare sight nonetheless.

In Melee, nobody does this. Despite switching working much better. Why? Zelda literally brings Sheik down. The idea of having both of these extreme versions of characters was never balanced.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't know about these games so I can't say much, but the point of Zelda/Sheik is to use them when needed. That was Sakurai's intent.

Except it's clear that the majority of players don't do that. Even if Sakurai intended it to be that way, it clearly didn't work.

Again, you're able to switch when you NEED to, you don't have to switch when there's someone right next to you. It even comes in handy to dodge a final smash as stated on the Dojo..

Define need. Because the only time that I can think of when it's safe to switch is when your opponent is in the middle of respawning.

I won't lose every single match online because I don't have button combos memorized, that's really it. It's a simple game.

So you don't like that someone who put more time into a game will consistently beat you?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda's advantage over Sheik is probably just one, or maybe two matchups. In Brawl. That's not much you could say. Gonna look this up now.

Found it, "Shielda" is only there cause Zelda is better than Sheik vs DeDeDe.

 

[Oasis_S]

I like imagining Kuma sitting down with a lady friend, playing Smash together, and he just beats the crap out of her.

"You should work on your grab game some more."

"Can we play Mario Kart..."

 

[yani]

Except it's clear that the majority of players don't do that. Even if Sakurai intended it to be that way, it clearly didn't work.

Where is this majority coming from anyway? The people who post videos on Youtube or something? Competitive?..Regardless it does work. If a player likes just Sheik, the player can play as just Sheik, vice-versa with Zelda. If the player likes both, he can be both.

Define need. Because the only time that I can think of when it's safe to switch is when your opponent is in the middle of respawning.

Smash the opponent back, switch instantly, proceed to attack? Pretty simple..

So you don't like that someone who put more time into a game will consistently beat you?

In a sense you could say that. But I've been in instances we're I've lost to friends just pushing random buttons (IRL of course). Just not a fan of those types of games. I do suck at them. I don't have as much of a problem with Smash, because it's more accessible to the average player, which again is Sakurai's intent.

 

[Big-Cat]

I like imagining Kuma sitting down with a lady friend, playing Smash together, and he just beats the crap out of her.

"You should work on your grab game some more."

"Can we play Mario Kart..."

And I'd say, "Sure."

 

[Diddy Kong]

We all would. Then, we'd say she could drift better

 

[yani]

So aside from characters, what are yall most excited for in the new Smash? I'm torn between Music and Trophies

 

[Big-Cat]

Gameplay. You know, because it's a game.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

The new adventure mode and an actually funkshunal online

 

[Diddy Kong]

Gameplay. You know, because it's a game.

Pretty much this.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't really know where to start. Adding some new elements could be a start.

 

[yani]

I think some status effects could be interesting, poison, burn etc

 

[Oasis_S]

It would be hard to say I cared about something other than characters to an extent that's worth mentioning. Stages, sure, fine, whatever.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Omega's back? (-l,l-)?

And Kuma's IMO much more than just a legendary fighter...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, but limited though. Only Ivysaur should be able to poison stall, as he's part of Pokémon Trainer.

I personally hope for some more moveset revamps also.

It's otherwise pretty much characters though.

 

[yani]

Ivysaur is a great way to start. Maybe Olimar too? I believe the white one can be poisonous iirc

 

[Big-Cat]

Omega's back? (-l,l-)?

And Kuma's IMO much more than just a legendary fighter...

Me? A legendary fighter?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Kuma, you're the technician of fighter games! Why not call you legendary master there?

XDD

 

[Big-Cat]

Because I'm a mere tadpole compared to the other people that know this stuff and other fighters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Legendary Master Kung Fu Panda

 

[GiantBreadbug]

JESUS ROLLERBLADING CHRIST, HERE WE GO.

I've been trying to post this for several pages now, but right after I do someone starts a fight over Impa again, or posts a fake Iwata Asks interview.

I saw some speculating about Story/Adventure Mode awhile back, so I'll just leave this here to get a new ball rollin'. Sorry if you guys feel interrupted or something. Also, try to wade through the text; I think there are at least a few solid ideas in here:

Here's a bit of a pretext. Basically, this is what I understand the Smash. Bros. mythos to be, with perhaps just a bit of my own interpretation sprinkled in.

Trophy descriptions for the Master Hand and Crazy Hand list them as the embodiments of creativity and destruction, respectively. The Master Hand creates, the Crazy Hand destroys. (Alright, guys. Get ready for some crazy fanfic bull****.) These two have been around since the beginning of time or whatever. The only being as ancient as the Hands is... well, the Ancient Minister. The way I see it, these three are the "Gods" of Nintendo; they created everything we know about our favorite franchises (the Ancient Minister serving as the "body" to the Hands). The Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule, Unova/Sinnoh/Hoenn/Johto/Kanto, Planet Popstar, all of them saw their creation at the hands of the Ancient Trio. After the creation of the Nintendo Universes was complete, the trio created a kind of "middle" world, where the three could reside in peace. The Ancient Minister created many companions in his likeness, and prepared a place in the sky for them to watch over the world they lived in. Sometime after the whole creation jazz settled down, the Crazy Hand defected and began to manifest his power in the form of terrible desctruction (I also think he created Tabuu to do his bidding, but Master Hand and R.O.B. banished Tabuu to Subspace). The Crazy Hand fled somewhere, which may be why Tabuu was trying to escape from Subspace (to find his creator). Also, the creatures we saw in the SSE were some of Crazy Hand's first attempts at creating living beings. The ones we fought were copies infused with Shadow Bugs that Tabuu extracted from Mr. Game & Watch (who I'm sure fits into the lore somewhere); the originals were shown being housed in the Halberd right before the Duon fight in the SSE.

Somewhere between the Crazy Hand flipping **** and the events of the Subspace Emissary, the Master Hand decided to hold a contest. He would invite his creations to his home world (the world in the SSE), to begin a grand sparring tourney that spanned the entire Nintendo Universe (essentially the idea of Smash Bros.). The idea was strictly friendly; Master Hand simply wanted a chance to interact with his offspring. So every so often, a Smash Bros. tournament was held. This is what we were beginning to see in the SSE, with the first combatants in the bracket being Mario and Kirby. This also helps me rationalize why all the characters were conveniently already in the SSE world. Then the whole Tabuu thing happened, and the third SSB tourney was interrupted.

Aaaanyways... Just a bit more unbearable fanficy stuff, I swear. I think the premise of SSB4's Adventure Mode should be as follows:

Story
The members of the starting roster (whatever that group of characters may be), minus the villains, receive their invites to the fourth Smash Tournament, and are the first to arrive in The World of Trophies (what I like to call SSE world). As they arrive in the Midair Stadium (seen in the SSE's first cutscene), the Master Hand approaches to greet them. Unexpectedly, the Crazy Hand strikes with a handful of the villains , destroying the stadium, and nearly taking out our heroes, but they are saved at the last minute by the Master Hand. The group looks into the sky to see the Crazy Hand open a wormhole and escape through it. The Master Hand knows Crazy Hand's destructive ways, and knows that he will wreak havoc on our heroes' home worlds with the help of the villains. The cast teams up with Master Hand to save their worlds (and along the way, learn the mysterious past of the Crazy Hand). This is just a loose structure that sets up the kind of experience I'd like to see. The minor details can be worked out later.

Levels/Game Structure
The World of Trophies operates as a kind of hub world. You select a team of four characters from those that are available and leave the hub to enter the world map. The world map consists of different Nintendo Universes, with only a few unlocked at first. Worlds will not be unlocked until a character from their series is unlocked outside of Story Mode (see the section below for more details), meaning that the entire roster must be unlocked before you can complete this game. Examples of worlds include the Lylat System, Konga Jungle, Yoshi's Island, Skyworld. Depending on the size of the universe, the world may have a few sublevels (Mushroom Kingdom would contain Princess Peach's Castle, Comet Observatory, Isle Delfino, etc.) eventually culminating in a final battle with the series's main villain(s). If the series has no main villain(s), then the Crazy Hand can create some sort of abomination to fight (he was a creator once, after all), or perhaps fight himself. These sublevels could also feature NPC "midbosses" of sorts (to continue with the Mario example, Big Bob-omb, Bowser Jr.'s Megahammer, Petey Piranha). If a world is featured that is relatively small, it will consist of only one level (a good example might be Diamond City). Every franchise represented with a playable character, as well as a few extras, is featured in the Story Mode in the form of a playable world. That may seem a bit difficult, since some worlds have very little source material to draw from (looking at you, Ice Climber), but Sakurai's a creative fellow. In the case of worlds that are featured without playable reps, they can be unlocked by meeting other special requirements. Stages from Vs. mode may also be featured as arenas in the Story Mode. All worlds will be unlocked and completed before the final showdown with Crazy Hand. The problem areas come into play with worlds that are based on Earth (Metal Gear, Sonic, Pikmin, etc.). All I can think to do is make the narrative details in these worlds as vague as possible to avoid conflicts.

Playable Characters
The SSE unlocked characters for the other modes of the game, but this mode will operate the reverse way. When a character that represents a universe that has not been unlocked yet is unlocked in Classic Mode or Vs. Mode or however they happen to be made available, they will appear in Story Mode with a cutscene depicting the character noticing some havoc being wrought by the Crazy Hand and his accomplice(s) in his/her home world will play. A new world will appear on the world map screen, and you will be able to travel to this world, with the option to add the newly unlocked character to your team for that world only. Only when you complete the character's world will he/she be available for selection on your team that you take into each world (accompanied with a cutscene showing their entrance into the World of Trophies). Villains are one exception to this rule in a couple of ways. When playable villains are defeated and brought back to The World of Trophies, a cutscene is shown depicting the Master Hand scolding them in some way, and convincing them to help stop the Crazy Hand (the villains even seem to harbor deep respect for the Master Hand, as shown in the SSE, and will show some sort of remorse for turning against their creator). Secondly, if a villain is encountered in Story Mode before they are outside of the mode, they will be unlocked everywhere, SSE style (if the Zelda world is completed in Story Mode before Ganondorf is unlocked by other means, he'll appear outside Story Mode as well as inside). Another exception is characters who belong to universes that have already been played through. For example, say you've already played through the Pokemon world in Story Mode, but at the time you hadn't yet unlocked Jigglypuff. Upon doing so outside of Story Mode, you'd see another cutscene much like the ones that introduce new universes. Adding these characters to your Story Mode roster are entails what are basically side quests. The character (Jigglypuff in the example) will notice something wrong in its universe, and the cycle will begin again. These side quests have unique NPC bosses. There is a minor problem with this approach: the prospect of randomized teams selected by the player makes the idea of prerendered cutscenes (entrances, pre-boss battles) within the separate Nintendo worlds improbable. However, if the Wii U is as powerful as we're being made to believe, then real-time scenes featuring your selected team arriving in the world/getting ready to face a boss shouldn't be out of the question. As I stated above, a character's world isn't unlocked in Story Mode until they are unlocked outside of the mode. This allows the player to sort of work on the Story Mode as they enjoy the other aspects of the game.

NPCs
I'd like to see this mode heavily feature NPCs. Sakurai threw Paletuna in SSE without her really serving any direct purpose (other than to give Pit the Sacred Bow), so I think seeing NPCs that didn't quite make the cut as characters get supporting roles (Rosalina, Anthony Higgs, N, etc.). Maybe even Assist Trophies could get in on the Story Mode action. I know this may be a touchy subject, and the question "If they're featured in Story Mode, why not make them playable?" may seem to arise. Again, this isn't a make-or-break feature of the single player expidition, but don't you think that they could be implemented in a neat way? Some NPCs would be bosses, as well. Eggman is a perfect example of an important NPC boss.

Gameplay
There's not much you can do to tamper with the formula of Smash to adapt it to a story mode experience, so this mode will keep the basic Smash Bros. formula seen in Melee and Brawl's side-scrolling adventures. The level design, however, would be highly reflective of the worlds and settings depicted. Grunt enemies from each world, as well as half-baked creations of the Crazy Hand, would appear as foes in the game. A major complaint with the SSE was the generic locales and enemies, so I wanted to bring all of the good elements of the SSE (cinematic presentation, dramatic boss battles, awesome Nintendo crossover goodness), and Melee's Adventure Mode (familiar Nintendo areas) together.

Welp, there you go. I may have left some of my ideas out, but I get a pass because skiing is exhausting. Go easy on me, please. I just needed to put my ideas into text.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Needs more Impa in that story

 

[Baskerville]

The only track I want in Smash 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnJwd9zrjiA

 

[Big-Cat]

I want this song in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_qG70RBzPE