New Smash Bros for WiiU

[ChronoBound]

The topic about the codecs just reminded me of something pertaining to Toon Link. During pre-Brawl, Toon Link was referred to as by two names. The Western Smash fans referred to him as Wind Waker Link, while the Japanese Smash fans called Cat Eyes Link. In the codec for Toon Link, Snake calls him a Link with "cat eyes" likely referring the Japanese fan name for him.

 

[Conviction]

OMGWTF A LEGIT IDEA I HAVENT ONE OF THESE IN AGES

That's realllyyyyyyy nice! My only problem in vs. mode it would become...DBZ style It's fine in story or 1 player mode. Nothing can be established if everyone is running around with a customized moveset.

BUUUUUUUUUUUT, that's a perfect idea for the 3DS verison.

My question is? How many moves are available to switch from the standard? Do you have to unlock them? buy them? both?

 

[Shorts]

Para Troopa and Petey Pirahna were in Double Dash, and were planned to return in Mario Kart Wii. Heck, I believe there is character selection portraits for Hammer Bro, Para Trooper, and Petey Pirahna that someone managed to dig up.

Yeah I know they were (I've played all the MK games) I'm just saying they were planned for Wii at one point. E. Gadd is a cool inclusion. My question is, is there any LEGAL reasons behind not adding Mona? Or another Wario character? She seems like she would fit RIGHT in.

@Move switch idea: That is a good idea, and very fan servicey, but completely bad for balance.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah, Balance issuing for sure.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Certain moves could be banned ya know? Anyways, saw it before and it's still a great idea. Exactly how I pictured it as well.

 

[BirthNote]

@Shurikan: It seems like a good way to innovate things, and I don't really have a problem with it. I guess the only concern is to make sure that the special options fit the character's overall playstyle no matter how many combinations there are. Its not bad so far.

Oh, and you envisioning the neutral special to remain the same isn't a bad idea either. You could just get away with it if you don't admit you forgot to add it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I see the balancing issue too. My only problem is how it affects tournaments. Would it have to be assumed you stay with only the original movest, etc. Oh, wait, it's not hard to make that rule. Problem solved.

It'd be awesome in 1Player Mode, definitely.

 

[Diddy Kong]

But this guy is playing with items... :/

 

[BirthNote]

I think it would be nice for multiplayer too. Its frustrating to have options like that limited to 1-player modes.

Brawl's Supspace sticker stuff is a different story cuz it directly affects stats, not changing moves.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@Shurikan: A nice input for special move customization. How it can work out, however, could be rather sketchy for some characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It'd work perfectly to add far more debt into the game. Meta Knight is a counter to Ganondorf? Not anymore with mah Trident Down B attack BIATCH!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The custom specials could lead to balancing issues though, so it's probably one of the features that shouldn't be utilized.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Balancing issues only really matter in Tournaments. It's not hard to ban the use of special move changes at all. Likewise, it could also lead to a much more interesting metagame than Brawl can(atleast with MK legal). So it's not all black & white.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah as long as they're not horribly unbalanced to the point where it isn't even fun to use them it should be all good

 

[Shorts]

Watch us get the advanced sticker system.

 

[yani]

Anyone have a source for Petey + Para planned for MKWii? I never knew about that..

 

[BirthNote]

Any balance suggestions? Every new idea brings hurdles, and this one seems to be worth crossing. If they worried EXTREMELY heavily about issues, we'd have no Olimar, Zelda/Shiek transformations, copy abilities, Final Smashes or Waddle Dees/Turnips/Bananas/Grenades/Gyros or reflectors. Maybe they can alter attack properties or something based on the special you choose. You'd have to re-learn the character based on the move replacements.

Any other balancing ideas?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Anyone have a source for Petey + Para planned for MKWii? I never knew about that..

Petey has his own character select icon in the Mario Kart Wii ISO files, so it's possible that he was planned to be a racer, but was later scrapped.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There haven't been many B moves thus far that where really overpowered at all. :/ Maybe Meta Knight's Mach Tornado and Shuttle Loop, but that's it. I don't think it'll be negative to balancing at all.

 

[BirthNote]

There haven't been many B moves thus far that where really overpowered at all. :/ Maybe Meta Knight's Mach Tornado and Shuttle Loop, but that's it. I don't think it'll be negative to balancing at all.

I meant standard attacks.

EDIT: For the most part.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, some of those certainly have been overpowered yes! But alternatives for B moves would only add more debt into the game I feel.

 

[Shurikan]

Yeah, Balance issuing for sure.

i say it COULD work only if done right...

i know the more characters the harder it is to balance the game...

im guessing it could be just as difficult if not more.

but lets just say sakurai's team pulled it off with good balance then this idea would be so fun.

i just thought of it like this:

there is a teir lists and character matchups, well with moveset customization it could eliminate the idea of character matchups as characters with different moves will have characters with different match ups.

lets say JUST FOR EXAMPLE if two players with EQUAL SKILL AND EXPERIANCE! one player picks pit and the other, lucas

in brawl pit out tiers lucas (remember its just an example)

but switch movesets around to the players liking and now based on what players has chosen lucus may stand a chance to pit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Exactly! Pick your moves best suit against your opponent you are going to face. Even better would be a "Random Special Attack Mode" where you cannot choose which moves you have at all, but are given to you at the start of the match (and are revealed on the Wii U Controller for you).

 

[MrGame&Rock]

It's an interesting concept for sure, but we really have no idea how this will work out. It could be anything from a completely customized Mii to essentially stickers applied to vs mode.

 

[Conviction]

Any balance suggestions? Every new idea brings hurdles, and this one seems to be worth crossing. If they worried EXTREMELY heavily about issues, we'd have no Olimar, Zelda/Shiek transformations, copy abilities, Final Smashes or Waddle Dees/Turnips/Bananas/Grenades/Gyros or reflectors. Maybe they can alter attack properties or something based on the special you choose. You'd have to re-learn the character based on the move replacements.

Any other balancing ideas?

That's why all those things you think are balanced are banned in the competitive sence. We do research.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using overpowered nonsense in the casual outlook though. Just find a way to keep it so we can seperate it. Like items and stages.

Anyways most of those things you mentioned are even broken and when being thought about being brought into the equation (projectiles), aren't harmful.

Olimar is really uniques when it comes to playstyles and the idea if I heard it before hand wouldn't cross a red flag with me. Futhermore, we need more unique characters like Olimar, playstyles in Smash are becoming...repetitive.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No Miis, just have this instead. Never liked the idea of a playable Mii in Smash, and never will. It will only be misused anyway.

And like in Soul Calibur 2, maybe you can have Regular Smash (standard B moves) and Special Smash (allowing to customize), along with Random Smash where the moves are chosen for you.

I'll say you all now though, don't call me no scrub for only wanting to play Special Smash either.

 

[Shurikan]

i think we should be able to customiz a Mii FOR an assist trophy at least.

not playable it just doesnt seem right for some reason...

 

[MrGame&Rock]

or a mii with a pre made move set (based on wii sports/play/whatever) that is aesthetically your mii. perhaps different stats for light/middle/heavyweight a la Mario Kart Wii, but nothing more than that.

 

[Conviction]

Exactly! Pick your moves best suit against your opponent you are going to face. Even better would be a "Random Special Attack Mode" where you cannot choose which moves you have at all, but are given to you at the start of the match (and are revealed on the Wii U Controller for you).

Problem. What if you don't use the Wii U Table.

i say it COULD work only if done right...

i know the more characters the harder it is to balance the game...

im guessing it could be just as difficult if not more.

but lets just say sakurai's team pulled it off with good balance then this idea would be so fun.

i just thought of it like this:

there is a teir lists and character matchups, well with moveset customization it could eliminate the idea of character matchups as characters with different moves will have characters with different match ups.

lets say JUST FOR EXAMPLE if two players with EQUAL SKILL AND EXPERIANCE! one player picks pit and the other, lucas

in brawl pit out tiers lucas (remember its just an example)

but switch movesets around to the players liking and now based on what players has chosen lucus may stand a chance to pit.

Pit vs. Lucas is actually not that bad a match-up for Lucas to start off with XD

Either way, the idea is nice I like it. I believe I won't be seeing it being applied through the competitive community though. That won't change the fact it can be added to the game.

Most likely what's going to happen from the competitive standpoint is, we figure out the optimal moveset for every character, and then becomes permenant standard for the rest of competitive lifespan.

 

[Diddy Kong]

i think we should be able to customiz a Mii FOR an assist trophy at least.

not playable it just doesnt seem right for some reason...

That I'll agree on!

Post more often around here man.

Anyone with ideas of extra special moves for characters??

I'll start:

Donkey Kong: Barrel Throw for Side B, Barrel Cannon for Up B, a chargeable version of Down B, Coconut Gun for regular B.
Ganondorf: Lightning ball spell for regular B, Side B as the Melee version, Down B: Trident Slash, Up B: Fire Keese Warp
Samus: Ice Beam for B or different Beam variations, Power Bomb for Down B, Charge Missile for Side B, Space Jump for Up B.

Agree with Iblis though that there will of coarse be one ultimate Special move set for every character. Or at least some will be more effective than others. However, in the end I wouldn't really care about that, cause it'd be in in the first place. Just slight move varations as adjusting speed for power could work to... But this seems way more interesting tbh.

 

[BirthNote]

That's why all those things you think are balanced are banned in the competitive sence. We do research. Wait... Olimar, grenades, turnips, bananas, copying, Zelda-->Sheik (and vice-versa), as well as reflectors are banned in competitive matches?
I don't think there is anything wrong with using overpowered nonsense in the casual outlook though. Just find a way to keep it so we can seperate it. Like items and stages. Someone already brought up a rule of using their default specials as an option.
Anyways most of those things you mentioned are even broken and when being thought about being brought into the equation (projectiles), aren't harmful. If you mean 'aren't even broken', then tht's because they balanced it. Can't they do the same with a system that alters things according to the moves implemented?

Olimar is really uniques when it comes to playstyles and the idea if I heard it before hand wouldn't cross a red flag with me. Futhermore, we need more unique characters like Olimar, playstyles in Smash are becoming...repetitive. But Olimar's banned apparently.

Replies in yellow.

 

[Shorts]

There haven't been many B moves thus far that where really overpowered at all. :/ Maybe Meta Knight's Mach Tornado and Shuttle Loop, but that's it. I don't think it'll be negative to balancing at all.

You do realize that adding ANY new content conflicts with balance right? Because of the sheer number of characters that are going to be in the next Smash, that alone could make this next game the least balanced, now start adding OPTIONS to the attacks, and you've got utter chaos.

You could potentially give a character some SERIOUS advantages over others if you combine the right B moves. And, I think the sort of customization Sakurai was reffering to was something like a sticker system, or a leveling up system similar to and RPG game.

Most likely what's going to happen from the competitive standpoint is, we figure out the optimal moveset for every character, and then becomes permenant standard for the rest of competitive lifespan.

Wouldn't you just use the default movesets and act as if the customization never existed?

 

[Aurane]

@xIblisx Avatar is awesome! Didn't know anyone here knew what YYH was ._. EDIT: I just realized that I haven't watched that show in years

Anyways, what's the word? Miis? NO. I explained this before on Customs.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You do realize that adding ANY new content conflicts with balance right? Because of the sheer number of characters that are going to be in the next Smash, that alone could make this next game the least balanced, now start adding OPTIONS to the attacks, and you've got utter chaos.

You could potentially give a character some SERIOUS advantages over others if you combine the right B moves. And, I think the sort of customization Sakurai was reffering to was something like a sticker system, or a leveling up system similar to an d RPG game.

What if there are less characters in Smash 4 to begin with?

But I do see the point. It would be awesome though, but knowing Sakurai he'll release the game in 2017 if he was to do all this.

 

[Shorts]

What if there are less characters in Smash 4 to begin with?

But I do see the point. It would be awesome though, but knowing Sakurai he'll release the game in 2017 if he was to do all this.

I actually was writing something like that, before my computer acted a fool. I suggested 25 or less characters, TWO B move options per character, and the team focusing stricly on balance.

(Ex: Pikachu could have Thundershock or Electro Ball, Skull bash or Iron Tail, Thunder or Double Team, Quick Attack or Volt Tackle ect)


And this is Smash, I don't think Sakurai has too much leaniency with the release date like he has with KIU.

 

[Conviction]

@Birth: *sigh* it's hard to reply when I have to keep scrolling back and forth because you didn't post it outside the quote.

• I'm just talking about items, as I read my first point it did come down as patronizing.
• Idk, why you repeated what I said, was I making that post before I could read the default as an option and also refer to my other post for what will happen competitively
• 3rd points refers back to the 2nd
• Olimar isn't but MK is

I think you might of tried to look to deep into my post for a subliminal message, when I was talking about differences from the competitive/casual.

@Shortie: It's either going to be defaults or the optimal set unless somewhere there is unbalance. I just know it'll be a huge mess to figure out in the end.

@Asage: Like DBZ, Yu Yu Hakusho is a main part of my childhood. Also I got to know a lot of anime if I plan on going to Japan soon. So close to being fluent, H Japanese 3 da bess.

EDIT: I just wanted to get this post out there so me and BirthNote's debate doesn't die XD it's been a while seen I've gotten a good challenge

@Shortie (in depth): Looking at the craziness that is going on the community because of the MK ban, the crazies I call them, are rearing their heads up. Some of them have valid ideals but are too late to impliment because of the set nature the community has adapted or is following, and others are just....no. So if they stick around until Smash 4, and if Smash 4 has customize options, I can see long, looooooooooooooooong, drawn out debates about what should be done so we don't have a repeat of Brawl. No one like banning characters but no one likes over centralization and brokeness. It looks bad on the community either way, lose/lose. So this time everything is going to be looked at for Smash 4, I'm hoping, to check every option to see what is optimal so when don't get a standard and 4-5 years down the road we figure out it's wrong and then we have a torn community because no one wants to change the norm.

 

[Shurikan]

Problem. What if you don't use the Wii U Table.



Pit vs. Lucas is actually not that bad a match-up for Lucas to start off with XD

Either way, the idea is nice I like it. I believe I won't be seeing it being applied through the competitive community though. That won't change the fact it can be added to the game.

Most likely what's going to happen from the competitive standpoint is, we figure out the optimal moveset for every character, and then becomes permenant standard for the rest of competitive lifespan.

i dont know i just believe the balace issue is just based on if the game developers pull it off.


hmmmm..

well shooter games are competitive

and they have nothing BUT customizations.

call of dutys BS is horrid though they dont know what balance is. so dont think of that as a refrence.

 

[Big-Cat]

IMPA 4 SMASH WHOOOOO!!!

Well yeah anyway, what's there left to discuss? I always like movesets, revamping, gameplay differences and **** like that...

Those are great topics, but as Iblis said, most people would rather talk about whether an avatar character should be in or not.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using overpowered nonsense in the casual outlook though. Just find a way to keep it so we can seperate it. Like items and stages.

Olimar is really uniques when it comes to playstyles and the idea if I heard it before hand wouldn't cross a red flag with me. Futhermore, we need more unique characters like Olimar, playstyles in Smash are becoming...repetitive.

I think the best way to separate it is to make it a completely separate mode like Marvel's Heroes and Heralds mode. This could be that customization thing Sakurai was talking about for the 3DS version.

As for playstyles, yeah I agree that only a handful really stick out: Peach, Capt. Falcon, Jigglypuff, Marth, Fox, and Yoshi all come to mind.

 

[Pichu Fan]

this is just a thought, but it would be cool if there was an RPG mode in smash (won't happen probably, but:
Ike used Eruption.
It's super affective!
Ivysaur Fainted!)
lol

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Those are great topics, but as Iblis said, most people would rather talk about whether an avatar character should be in or not.


I think the best way to separate it is to make it a completely separate mode like Marvel's Heroes and Heralds mode. This could be that customization thing Sakurai was talking about for the 3DS version.

As for playstyles, yeah I agree that only a handful really stick out: Peach, Capt. Falcon, Jigglypuff, Marth, Fox, and Yoshi all come to mind.

I think you forgot G&W...