New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

Diamond City looks a lot like it's in the real world, not part of the fantasy world that houses the Mushroom Kingdom.

Likewise, show me where it says that. Please. Also, if they don't say it directly, and it's only SUGGESTED that they haven't decided yet by your quote alone.

Highly likely =/= is. Neither of us are really correct, as there's no final statement on it. All it means is that DK Island COULD be a part of that some world, not that it really is.

http://www.mariowiki.com/Mushroom_World

I don't normally trust Wikis, but the Mario one from what I've heard is kept under a tight shift.

If neither of us are correct, then neither of us can say whether Mario is part of DK or DK is part of Mario.
Given that they have their own series that have nothing directly with each other now, it should be agreed that they're neither now. Mario is Mario, DK is DK. Wario is Wario.

Now the biggest question is Yoshi.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

the mario world isn't even consistent within ITSELF. It's not even meant to make sense ir link together. It could even be argued that each separate game series has its own unique canon.

Save for those that pure sequels. And sometimes on those. Both Super Mario World games, both Galaxy games.(although they take place in sequence with eachother, and have multiple universes anyway. Part of the design of the game, after all)

I believe all of Mario Land took place in the same area, and some strictly take place in the Mushroom Kingdom.

Also, we weren't talking about storyline, just locations. As for canon, it's kind of hard to tell these days. Only thing anybody every agrees with is that the Spin-offs(including rpg's) are non-canon, while the rest are canon.

Yoshi originated in the Mario world. DK didn't. Wario did too. And Wario could be arguable, if the Mushroom Kingdom is not considered the FULL world, and just more like a continent. Depends how you look at it. Regardless, we both agree that DK is not a Mario character anyway. So let's leave that one alone.

 

[Deleted member]

Wario DOES travel to different worlds. It isn't too farfetched.
Heck, he could be FROM another world. I seriously doubt he came from Brooklyn.

He might even be from a bizzaro world of Mario that he's already screwed up so bad, it's inhabitable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Brooklyn is the closest to the real world we have as of now. Wario doesn't even seem like he's a special human. My simple theory is that going into the Mushroom Kingdom allows fantastical things to happen to you. Great jumping and transformations mostly.

Either way, I think Wario might be from a dark universe. I wish they'd go with that, so you could easily say Waluigi was like that for Luigi. There, you gave a canon thing for that guy. People'll stop whining that he's not a real character, blah blah blah. Speaking of that, Waluigi IS a Mario character so far.

 

[Deleted member]

Now if only he'd get more mainstream roles....then people would consider him a real character.
I've heard that it's possible for him to be in Luigi's Mansion 2. I hope this ends up being true.
Then Waluigi will have more on his resume.

 

[Deleted member]

@Shortiecanbrawl: Very surprised to see that in a matter of less than a week that it got that many votes. Perhaps I can help promote the poll by putting your poll on my signature? I would surprised if we did not get 1,000 votes this time around.

Also, you might want to well put numbers beside these characters. I think those are more revealing of a character then ranking. I for one am surprised at how far apart Victini and Zoroark are despite only being a mere four votes away from each other (and I'm surprised that Victini is doing that well, especially when taking into account Nsider2).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Now if only he'd get more mainstream roles....then people would consider him a real character.
I've heard that it's possible for him to be in Luigi's Mansion 2. I hope this ends up being true.
Then Waluigi will have more on his resume.

Keep in mind that people argue whether the spin-offs are canon or not. No word on that from Nintendo. We made that up, heh.

Anyway, people don't ultimately care when it comes to Smash, since it's not Canon in the first place. Honestly, if Sakurai cared about that, I'm sure Waluigi would not even be an AT. Maybe a regular trophy like in Melee, since he does exist in the series.

Atleast he has a real personality, etc.

Also, about your link from earlier. None of that is cited at all. I wouldn't really take them over Wikipedia without a citing.

 

[Shorts]

Sure sure. If you want to advertise my poll, I don't care. So long as you give me credit for putting it together. I was suprised at Bandana Dee's status. Tini and Junior both got the short end of the stick.

But give it a couple hundred more votes, and Junior will be higher towards the top. Right now nothing is concrete really. Megaman should jump up some, and Medusa should fall a tad, that's what Im betting on at least.

I'm excited to see another female be ranked in the higher end of the poll. Besides Krystal, there wasn't much last year that made it that high.

Also, glad to see Plusle and Minun low.

 

[Deleted member]

Would what I put in my signature count as giving credit?

I think we'll see Victini and Zoroark put up a much closer fight then they did last time. I would even say with the large Victini fan base here, that it has a real possibility of overtaking Zoroark. So we'll have to wait and see.

I'm in agreement with the rest of the post.

 

[Oasis_S]

That was adorable, SSBF.

 

[nLiM8d]

Also, glad to see Plusle and Minun low.

What could have been the driving force behind pitching those two to the drawing board?

If I recall correctly, didn't you say that agree with the direction of character decisions?

 

[Shorts]

What could have been the driving force behind pitching those two to the drawing board?

If I recall correctly, didn't you say that agree with the direction of character decisions?

Come again? I don't exactly know what you're asking me.

Would what I put in my signature count as giving credit?

I think we'll see Victini and Zoroark put up a much closer fight then they did last time. I would even say with the large Victini fan base here, that it has a real possibility of overtaking Zoroark. So we'll have to wait and see.

I'm in agreement with the rest of the post.

Uhm, I don't care, just if anyone asks say I made it, or put my name somewhere. But It's not a big deal.

 

[Deleted member]

Come again? I don't exactly know what you're asking me.

I think he was asking why Plusle & Minun originally got so many votes.

It probably has to do with the fact that they were (supposedly) planned for the Forbidden Seven and given that Sakurai likes to add in contents he didn't get to next time around, they assume it makes Plusle & Minun a semi-serious possibility. But I feel as the hype has since died down due to Mewtwo, Zoroark, and Victini mostly taking over in requests.

 

[Starphoenix]

Tell me what you guys think? It is a little scrunched together, but the characters can still be seen. Just want to see how people respond to this roster.

[COLLAPSE="Roster"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Shorts]

If that's what you're asking, I think it's becase people have been under the impression that Pra_Mai is really Plusle and Minun. Because the majority of the people that took this poll were probably semi sane people, I figure they could spike once more, when summer rolls around.

I'm afraid of Waluigi. That's who I'm afraid of. I'm also afraid of the newbies post E3 NOT BEING RESPECTFUL and voting multiple times. Misterpolls is free and has a great voting set up with various question types, but they don't protect from one specific computer voting multiple times, unlike another voting site I've used did. That site was utter crap in terms of how many questions it allowed and whatnot though.

 

[Kantrip]

What ever indicated plusle and minun anyways?

I was under the impression the file name was rather ambiguous and could have been the random box.

 

[nLiM8d]

Well do elaborate on the subject,

I can't say I know too much about popular third generation pokemon. Though I've played the games, I'm unfamiliar with what promotes widespread importance/popularity these days.

Spoiler

Surely the intended market audience isn't meant for adults.

Back when I could recall Pokemon being a big hit, I remember characters like Charizard or Dragonite being acclaimed, but those where juvenile social circles, kids on the playground.

What significance would Pulse & Minum add to the Smash Kingdom?

Tell me what you guys think?

It's very clean for one thing. Certainly its easy to tell that you have character profiles in mind.

 

[Kantrip]

Obviously I'm biased, Star, but I don't agree with adding both Toad AND Junior, nor Krystal, in the absence of Dixie Kong. Not sure how I feel about Waddle Dee either.

Very nice looking and well done roster, though.

 

[Oasis_S]

You should have had Ness's hat and Lucas's hair as the focus of their mugshots.

 

[Shorts]

Tell me what you guys think? It is a little scrunched together, but the characters can still be seen. Just want to see how people respond to this roster.

[COLLAPSE="Roster"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Likes:
- Krystal obv.
- Waddle Dee
- Toad AND Junior
- Lucario, PT, Tini, AND Mewtwo
- Diverse playstyles added

Dislikes:
- Toad AND Junior over Mona/Syrup/Ashley/Jimmy
- No Goroh (Travesty almost as big as leaving out Ridley IMO)
- Toon Link kept, but missing Goroh (POS character, but understandable)
- No Dixie Kong

It's a good roster I could live with. I have Krystal, which is what I want, but the lack of Mii's, Goroh, and a Wario character really do hurt me though. Still, it's something I could most definitely live with. I'm GLAD you kept all the Pokemon. It's something I've been advocating for a while now. As much as it pains me to know I will NEVER see Deoxys, at least we can Keep cario.

EDIT: I missed the Mii's stuff.

 

[Kantrip]

Miis are on there

 

[Hoots]

Tell me what you guys think? It is a little scrunched together, but the characters can still be seen. Just want to see how people respond to this roster.

[COLLAPSE="Roster"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Waddle Dee and Mach Rider really kill it for me, and that's not even mentioning my hatred of the Mii. Wasting a slot on a B move generic enemy is a total waste when there are a TON of deserving characters that you left out. And I LOVE Waddle Dees. When I played Kirby's epic yarn, I couldn't bring myself to kill them when I could help it. I just think having one be playable in Smash is ridiculous, especially coming from a guy who didn't include Dedede in 64 or Melee in fear of seeming biased.

Also, I'd say Victini's popularity is mostly baseless and simply fad induced, much like Gardevoir during Brawl's speculation. I think most of his support comes from the younger folks who find his cuteness and "spunkiness" appealing enough to merit a slot on the Smash roster.

 

[Starphoenix]

Likes:
- Krystal obv.
- Waddle Dee
- Toad AND Junior
- Lucario, PT, Tini, AND Mewtwo
- Diverse playstyles added

Dislikes:
- Toad AND Junior over Mona/Syrup/Ashley/Jimmy
- No Goroh (Travesty almost as big as leaving out Ridley IMO)
- Toon Link kept, but missing Goroh (POS character, but understandable)
- No Dixie Kong
- No Mii's

It's a good roster I could live with. I have Krystal, which is what I want, but the lack of Mii's, Goroh, and a Wario character really do hurt me though. Still, it's something I could most definitely live with. I'm GLAD you kept all the Pokemon. It's something I've been advocating for a while now. As much as it pains me to know I will NEVER see Deoxys, at least we can Keep cario.

Might want to check again. Mii's are definitely there.

 

[Kantrip]

Hoots, what would you ideally do with a newcomer Pokemon slot?

 

[virtualgamecafe]

I'm not exactly sure what the point of the whole "big 8" discussion is, but I will comment on the DK as a Mario character thing. DK is in all the Mario party games and stuff, HOWEVER, fans of Donkey Kong as a FRANCHISE are fans of DKC, which has nothing to do with Mario. If this argument is about Toad(Is it?), I think people are getting a little too worked up about him. He's already represented in Peach's neutral B. I think that accurately represents him as a servant of the Princess literally being used as a shield. What more do you want from him? To ride around in a gokart and have a bunch of fake made up moves?

A ******? It's just how I talk. it's how we talk where I'm from.

 

[nLiM8d]

I think most of his support comes from the younger folks who find his cuteness and "spunkiness" appealing enough to merit a slot on the Smash roster.

Are you mad watson?

Have you any idea the pandora's box you've opened containing the inevitable, uncertifiable criteria that we will have to endure in the coming hours?

There will be blood, I assure you.

 

[Shorts]

Well do elaborate on the subject,

I can't say I know too much about popular third generation pokemon. Though I've played the games, I'm unfamiliar with what promotes widespread importance/popularity these days.

Uhm I suppose I could start with talking about where the "popularity" this duo has gained came from. Basically I think the whole Pra_Mai crappy rumor, mixed with the idea that they could be the recarnation of Pichu really is what had most people sold on the idea of them being playable. Like I said earlier, most of us here don't believe that Pra_Mai is Plusle and Minun, but my 2011 poll was up during last year's E3 hype boom, and it was also placed on sites like Y!A, and Deviantart. So, the "less educated" speculators could have simply taken the rumor to be true, or just like the character, and added them. OR, someone voted for them a million times (Which would be extremely annoying with the way I have my poll set up, so I doubt that)

What makes Pokemon important/popular these days? Hmmm, for starters, Pokemon with extended air time on the anime, in a movie, one who is a starter, a legendary, or an event Pokemon have an automatically "Higher" status than any other Pokemon. Specifically Generation 1 Pokemon. If I was to bust out every Pokemon I think would qualify as important or popular, they would mostly be from Generation 1, and the Latest Generation. As for the third Gen specifically, I would consider the Starters (Treeko evo chain, Mudkip evo chain, and Torchic evo chain) to be pretty popular (Often coupled with the idea of May being their trainer), are very popular. Along with the legendaries like Deoxys, and to a much smaller extent, Jirachi. Gardevior has simply been a fan favorite, as well as a "furry esque" sex symbol, so she too is/was a popular choice. Lastly we have Plusle & Minun, the Pikachu's of the third generation. They're fame was previously explained. So there you have it, Starters, Deoxys, Jirachi, Gardevior, Plusle and Minun.

What significance would Pulse & Minum add to the Smash Kingdom?

Like I mentioned before, I see them playing at the "Proper Pichu". Something that didn't kill itself, and wasn't COMPLETELY a clone. But that's just me. They would function like IC's meet Pichu. Apart they would be weaker, but together they're a serious force. Moves like Iron tail, and discharge would be added in along with probably quick attack and pikachu's thundershock.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't even find Victini cute, and he's an awesome and new combination. I highly doubt cuteness is the real reason behind it. Sure, he's an expy, but he's actually very good in the game.

Mind you, I still find Genesect more unique and cool. While the type combination has been done before, there is no Legendary Bug as of yet. The main thing that Victini has is an unique typing over Genesect and popularity.

 

[ChronoBound]

Tell me what you guys think? It is a little scrunched together, but the characters can still be seen. Just want to see how people respond to this roster.

[COLLAPSE="Roster"]

[/COLLAPSE]

I only have two criticisms:

1. Star Fox getting four characters before Donkey Kong.
2. I think 58 characters is way too high for what we will likely see for Smash 4.

On the character selection screen itself, way the characters are organized seems to be a step down from Brawl (less column/row themes).

Anyway, overall its a very good roster.

 

[nLiM8d]

Strange, your initial comment about the two read more like you'd prefer that they didn't gain any leeway.

I understand how they could be an update the pichu slot, what I don't understand is why they should be viewed in that light.

Reason being is that it falls in line with this "spiritual successor" phenomenon that I've been noting lately. I don't agree with it.

 

[Shorts]

Strange, your initial comment about the two read more like you'd prefer that they didn't gain any leeway.

My problem with them is, I know it's silly but it bugs me, where they get thier popularity. I think it's absolutely silly that a character got popular based off someone's quick conclusions. But, I can't say much, because popularity is popularity, no matter how stupid the reasoning behind it is.

I understand how they could be an update the pichu slot, what I don't understand is why they should be viewed in that light.

Reason being is that it falls in line with this "spiritual successor" phenomenon that I've been noting lately. I don't agree with it.

Well, Pichu hurt himself. I THINK the fact that Plusle is a posative charge, and Minun is a negative charge kind of gives off the "They need each other, or else they won't balance out/hurt themselves" type of thing. On top of that, in a lot of respects, they're extremely similar to Pikachu and Pichu. I could EASILY make a moveset for them that would stray far from Pikachu's and Pichu's movesets, but in reality, I think PluMin would be pretty similar to Pikachu.

In a lot of respects, they suffer from just being very similar to an already existing character really. Which I why I would prefer Deoxys, Gardevior, or Pokemon Trainer May (Mud/Grov/Blaz).


On the Dixie vs. Krystal

I think Star finds Dixie to be very... bland, and Krystal's Staff/Fire/Psychic abilities offer more in terms of playstyle. At least, that's why I think he added Krystal over Dixie.

I would have added both...

 

[Deleted member]

Also, I'd say Victini's popularity is mostly baseless and simply fad induced, much like Gardevoir during Brawl's speculation. I think most of his support comes from the younger folks who find his cuteness and "spunkiness" appealing enough to merit a slot on the Smash roster.

And how is the popularity "baseless"? Having two movies released simultaneously (the first since Mewtwo), being 000# on the Unova Pokedex (a first for any Pokemon), was available in one of the most notable events in Pokemon history (Liberty Garden), and being on the Pokemon Center Logo of the latest store are things that can be said about Victini and not about Gardevior.

@Starphoenix: Good roster, although a bit much. Shulk and Bandanna Dee are my only two disagreements.

 

[nLiM8d]

I understand, and really as you expressed it (in this light and several occasions), there's a distinct importance to noting a character for what they're worth.

Pichu by itself, is a character that can be enjoyed, the con of hurting himself is a minor stigma to his design as a whole. IF pichu was indeed included on the basis of being a joke character, it can be inferred that this approach was meant to promote something distinct about that design. Very similar to how you mention the duo needing each other.

Though I'm not sure how Pulse & Minum correlate to the series representation beyond sharing aspects of Pikachu's identity, I would hope that the decisions made over Brawl's finalized roster are indicative of propriety. Perhaps the suggestions that Toise posted for character repping are accurate deciding factors for how characters are included.

And how is the popularity "baseless"?

The subject that Hoots is trying to convey is a concept that you have yet to grasp. In accordance to this whole matter, you haven't discussed how Gamefreak's agenda in promoting this character has had a hand in also expressing to fans who gets to be popular.

Its like what my brother and I were discussing about mob rule, the heading of the mob can be baseless and or senseless as long as it promotes action in some particular direction.

You see, simply because pikachu is the mascot of the series, doesn't make his character design any more or less distinct than the rest. It could have been any one of the 151 pokemon in the initial set, but they chose to push pikachu.

Is pikachu well known? Yes: Surely that makes him popular right?

Can you see where the lines get blurred?

 

[Shorts]

I understand, and really as you expressed it (in this light and several others), there's a distinct importance to noting a character for what they're worth.

Yeah, I find it hard to think that a simply "popular" character can or should ever be added to Smash. I would hope every character has some sort of merit, or good reasoning behind it that isn't SOLEY popularity. Plusle & Minun alone, really don't serve much to smash. If we look at in terms of what they COULD represent, they suddenly look better, like being Pichu2.0 and representing a very important Generation in Pokemon history, they seem like logical choices. The only problem is without those two.... subjective concepts, they aren't the greatest choices. They haven't really done anything within their series. They aren't really mascots. They aren't a rare/important Pokemon. They're easily found Pikachus.

Which is why I think Doexys is the best choice for Gen 3. A movie Poke, who has his own event/plotpoint. He has some reasoning behind him that I can look at, and say, "Okay, he makes sense".

 

[nLiM8d]

Oh its bad news for Deoxys, I even have a pun in mind to relate that point, so you know its bad.

Unfortunately the same argument that could bring him in, bars him to being usurped by another like him.

I'm not fond of that reality, but its what you're going to hear down the line. (Que the FanMan)

 

[Shorts]

If you're reffering to the fact that it's too little too late for Deoxys (As well as any Third Gen Poke really) I'm well aware of that. Unless the remake means anything to Sakurai, which I don't know if it would/will.

I'm HOPING that the cycle of "Latest and Greatest" is broken in this game with Lucario not being cut. I don't like the idea of a character being cut simply because he is no longer the latest thing.

 

[Deleted member]

@nLiM8d: Because of the exposure the said Pokemon get for being promoted by the company. The fans then get to decide to see whenever or not the said Pokemon being promoted is good. If they dislike it, the Pokemon will quickly fade away, but if the reception is positive, they eat it up and the Pokemon garners a large fan base that follows it even after the gen they were introduced in has ended. Victini was a well received Pokemon that was promoted considerably, thus is a popular Pokemon. Whatever Game Freak pushes, the fans decide on if they like it or not.

As for Pikachu, obviously he was extremely well received and kids and gamers absolutely loved him. And I'm sure there were many reasons as to why Pikachu was chosen and there were obvious characters to not use. Could you honestly imagine Jynx as Pokemon's mascot or Magikarp? Had Game Freak pushed them as mascots, it would have taken a significant toll on the success of the franchise and they would have to pick someone else. That would have happened to Pikachu as well if he did not have good reception.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pikachu was chosen because of the Anime, same with Jigglypuff. They were extremely popular there. Likewise, Ash got a Pikachu only because of how popular it was in Red/Green. So yeah, the second Pokemon Yellow came around, it was clear who the mascot was. Jigglypuff only had something notable in the Anime as is, being the next recurring character besides Meowth. Meowth was still in 64 via a Pokeball, so he might have been considered. But since they had a similar moveset with Kirby, it was easier to have Puff use a bit of his, thus, making it easier to make. Just like how Falcon got a few of Samus' moves, and Luigi clearly was very similar to Mario.

 

[Maripu]

If you're reffering to the fact that it's too little too late for Deoxys (As well as any Third Gen Poke really) I'm well aware of that. Unless the remake means anything to Sakurai, which I don't know if it would/will.

I'm HOPING that the cycle of "Latest and Greatest" is broken in this game with Lucario not being cut. I don't like the idea of a character being cut simply because he is no longer the latest thing.

I don't think they'll be remade in time for Smash Wii U. Possibly not at all. Kind of mad that there's no Gen 2 rep in Smash anymore and that they put in irrelevant Lucario over so many options that would have made more sense.

 

[Hoots]

Hoots, what would you ideally do with a newcomer Pokemon slot?

I am pretty indifferent when it comes to Pokemon. The only Pokemon newcomer that I've actually WANTED since 64 was Meowth, and we all know that that ship has long since sailed. The main reason I don't support Victini is because first, we already have 3 cute Pokemon with Pikachu, Jiggs, and Squirtle. Not to mention that there are already a **** ton of fire users in Smash, so we don't need to add another Fire pokemon. And especially if they add readd Mewtwo, having 2 Psychic Pokemon is pretty redundant. Then there's that time when someone went onto the Japanese Smash forums and Victini was like never or hardly mentioned, as if the Japanese don't even consider him. On my personal roster, I have Zoroark. I spoke to Serebii personally around the Brawl speculation time and he assured me that Lucario would be in Brawl WAY before he was leaked. He said that "Lucario was designed for Smash." If you look at Lucario and consider Serebii's inside info, I actually believe him. Now looking at Zoroark, I think that he/she has that same body type that would make me say that is perfect for Smash. Besides, I personally like Zoroark's design a hell of a lot more than Victini. But like I said, I'm pretty indifferent and I certainly don't HATE him like I loathed Gardevoir and her supporters during the Brawl speculation days. I just think Zoroark makes more sense.

However, Game Freak could EASILY give Sakurai a gen6 Pokemon to slap in there since Smash 4 will probably come out around the same time as the generation 6 games.