New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Oasis_S]

Umm I support Paper Mario because I like him...

Realized I quoted the wrong quote.

What a preposterous case to build an argument on.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As do I. I know he and the team will improve on it.

Honestly, the thing about Brawl is that it WASN'T stale and was widely different from both Smashes.

None of them are extremely similar by any means. There is no sequel stagnation. Things HAVE changed. So I don't see what real problem is coming up here.

 

[Starphoenix]

What a preposterous case to build an argument on.

Why should I have any other reason? We can sit here and play the role of Smash scholars living in some digital ivory tower espousing our "rules" and beliefs on how the Sakuraiverse spins, but the fact of the matter is it comes down to what we enjoy.

 

[nLiM8d]

I don't know if I should feel at ease or aroused.... I'm gonna go with aroused, later gents!

 

[Starphoenix]

I don't know if I should feel at ease or aroused.... I'm gonna go with aroused, later gents!

You see. It is stuff like this that prevents me from posting photos online.

 

[nLiM8d]

Its not hard really,

just about anyone can do it.

 

[Oasis_S]

The only reason I support Ridley is because I want to be right.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Although it does annoy me how some people spend way too much time guessing what Sakurai might probably be thinking, and over-analyzing every little thing that he says or does and using it as "undeniable evidence" that so-and-so will or will not be in SSB4, there are better ways to back-up a argument than bias. I always remind myself not to take everything the guy says too seriously especially if it's a decade old statement or action. For me, what it really comes down to is who/what is the most deserving of making an appearance, THEN I consider Sakurai's possible biases and past words/actions.

It's funny, I spend so much time speculating on characters (pretty much the only thing I do here, if you haven't noticed) and yet the roster could end up being totally different from anything that I might be thinking, because none of us can actually read Sakurai's mind (although I think that some of us believe we can).

 

[nLiM8d]

If anyone can do it, its Oasis

To be honest, I would be surprised if you're wrong about Ridley m8.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Nah, Shortie obviously can too. From the way he talks sometimes you'd think that he has personal conversations with the guy.

 

[Starphoenix]

Difference is I am not backing up an argument I am saying I support a character, more specifically Paper Mario, because I like him. I think he would make for an interesting fighter and I happen to enjoy his series. There is no requirement that says I need anymore than that. Now, if I were going to say he is likely to be playable then I would have to list my reasoning on why I have come to that conclusion. All I'm saying is I like the guy.

 

[Oasis_S]

If anyone can do it, its Oasis

"Konichiwa tofu sushi karaoke kawaii neko sayonara desu."

I hope you didn't take my PREPOSTEROUS comment too Seriously, Star.

 

[nLiM8d]

Gonna switch identities for a moment, cause I'd like to be frank:

When the time comes to participate in the polls, we won't be pulling out our pie charts and abacus tool in order to do so.

It's gonna come down to personal distinctions.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Difference is I am not backing up an argument I am saying I support a character, more specifically Paper Mario, because I like him. I think he would make for an interesting fighter and I happen to enjoy his series. There is no requirement that says I need anymore than that. Now, if I were going to say he is likely to be playable then I would have to list my reasoning on why I have come to that conclusion. All I'm saying is I like the guy.

Sorry, around here you're only allowed to like people who have a chance. (just kidding.)

There are only really two (technically three) characters I might have bias toward. Balloon Fighter and Banjo & Kazooie. The first might actually have a chance... the latter, not at all. My life would be complete if Banjo & Kazooie were ever fighters in Smash, though.

 

[Starphoenix]

Gonna switch identities for a moment, cause I'd like to be frank:

When the time comes to participate in the polls, we won't be pulling out our pie charts and abacus tool in order to do so.

It's gonna come down to personal distinctions.

Exactly, that is my mentality. When it comes time to put our money where our mouth is we are going to choose one character (since Japan usually only has the opportunity to select one) we will choose who we like. If I am given the ability to participate I will vote for the character I want that I feel might be overlooked.

 

[Berserker.]

Sometimes.... you might not understand the real translation of what some people actually say when they're forced to bring out them pie charts and ratios and popularity polls.

 

[nLiM8d]

I'm a CpE major, what could they tell me that I haven't studied already?

 

[Berserker.]

I'm a CpE major, what could they tell me that I haven't studied already?

Me for example.

Whenever I say something like this

Toad is likely. (Insert things here)

I actually meant

Dunno with Sakurai. He can seriously **** with our heads

I still have faith in Toad being able to get in Smash NOT because he's popular actually. Basically because his support has been alive since Melee and until now

Speculation is fun and all but it's also something I can't count on. I believe in one thing though and it's that Smash 4 will be a great game with a diverse and flavorful roster.

 

[nLiM8d]

I see what you mean, but doesn't support give off notion of popularity?

Down the line, it will have more to do with feasibility of characters, what they're worth in terms of market appeal, flexibility by design, and gratification of the consumer (as he/she is an asset to marketing).

There are a ton of mixed signals from the community that will be considered through a boatload of paperwork and project decisions.

/smartass

 

[yani_]

My life would be complete if Banjo & Kazooie were ever fighters in Smash, though.

I hear you man I wish..

 

[Berserker.]

I see what you mean, but doesn't support give off notion of popularity?

Down the line, it will have more to do with feasibility of characters, what they're worth in terms of market appeal, flexibility by design, and gratification of the consumer (as he/she is an asset to marketing).

There are a ton of mixed signals from the community that will be considered through a boatload of paperwork and project decisions.

/smartass

I know support can really help a character get in despite the odds although there are some situations where in support wasn't really needed or it was backfired. A great example of getting in without the support would be the Ice Climbers where in they had the lowest number of votes but they still got in the game. An example of characters who did not get in despite the support would be Ridley, K Rool and Toad since.... Ridley had development issues and Sakurai saw him more as a boss BUT he did say that he could take care of the guy but it will take time, K Rool did not get in for some random reason and Toad did not get in because he lacked "Big guns" (Compared to now).

 

[Starphoenix]

I see what you mean, but doesn't support give off notion of popularity?

Down the line, it will have more to do with feasibility of characters, what they're worth in terms of market appeal, flexibility by design, and gratification of the consumer (as he/she is an asset to marketing).

There are a ton of mixed signals from the community that will be considered through a boatload of paperwork and project decisions.

/smartass

Let's put it this way. When I just casually chat about videogames with people and come upon the topic of Super Smash Bros almost always they request Mario characters. Granted, a lot of them do not follow the game closely othewise there would not be so many requests for Bowser, but that being said there are also a number of people requesting Toad. I'm not trying to blow these personal conversations of mine out of proportion only bringing up the reality that Mario characters are usually what people gravitate towards. Take away the internet forum cliqs and you will find that Mario and Pokémon characters are still the ones with the most cultural pull. Donkey Kong would probably fit in that category too, but for the most part Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong are truly the poster children of the series, while even King K. Rool and others are not quite on the same level as the Kongs. I would also add Mii's to that list, however, I'll stave on going any further since I created a firestorm last time with my comments.

I know support can really help a character get in despite the odds although there are some situations where in support wasn't really needed or it was backfired. A great example of getting in without the support would be the Ice Climbers where in they had the lowest number of votes but they still got in the game. An example of characters who did not get in despite the support would be Ridley, K Rool and Toad since.... Ridley had development issues and Sakurai saw him more as a boss BUT he did say that he could take care of the guy but it will take time, K Rool did not get in for some random reason and Toad did not get in because he lacked "Big guns" (Compared to now).

Smash Bros is what I like to call a "king maker" series. Smash Bros has the ability to make characters popular which in effect nullifies the popularity argument. My case in point, Roy. He was included before his game was even released. Talk about putting the cart before the horse, but Sakurai liked him so he made it into the roster. Not only that but Marth was intended to be dropped from the American version which would have left Roy as the sole representative of the Fire Emblem series. Which would have been extraordinarily ironic since his game still, and as far I know won't, has yet to reach American shores. If anything Roy kills the debate that only "All-Stars" or the most popular characters can be playable. Rubbish.

 

[nLiM8d]

The poster children of the Mario series are up in there. It sounds like your saying you had a conversation with someone over who to choose for Mario Kart and they responded "yeah, you should really put Mario in there, it would be a good idea".

As much as I understand where you're coming from, I don't quite get that your average consumer wouldn't expect to have what the game promised. Like: "yeah its all swell its all good, I see luigi, wario is knockin about, but where the **** is Dr. Mario?!" and they riot in the streets because the stage of franchise spinoffs is lacking a showman.

I have the image that your average player would enjoy seeing their favorite nintendo game represented, as such was their experience of Nintendo growing up. Given the opportunity to be introduced to an all Nintendo extravaganza, they'd be curious to see whether there's room for their favorite title.

_

Yo berserker, appreciate the insight over the Ice Climbers.

 

[Starphoenix]

Shoot nevermind, maybe Dixie Kong still is relevant to some degree?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Mario-Mini-Figure-Bundle-Series-3-Yoshi-and-Dixie-Kong/16570678

 

[Oasis_S]

Still looking for Ridley toy.

 

[nLiM8d]

Lol, Nanogal P

v (Now do one for Custom Robo) v

 

[Deleted member]

Shoot nevermind, maybe Dixie Kong still is relevant to some degree?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Mario-Mini-Figure-Bundle-Series-3-Yoshi-and-Dixie-Kong/16570678

Nice to see she isn't irrelevant.

Which brings me to something that I've been wanting to bring up for a week or so; relevancy in Sakurai's eyes is different from what we think relevancy is. We tend to think of it in a character's most recent appearance, but what we think is relevant or irrelevant may not be the same in Sakurai's eyes. For example, an argument could be made that Saki Amamiya is relevant to Sakurai's eyes despite having only a cameo in Sin & Punishment 2 because there are evidence shown that Sakurai legitimately considered Saki as a playable character and thanks to events supporting Saki (such as Virtual Console release that lead to a sequel and decent support in both here and Japan), I am confident that Sakurai will seriously consider Saki as a playable character again and could very well get in.

 

[Shorts]

It's freaking Dixie. Like a toy being made of her ups her chances anymore.

Why in the hell would he lie about that. O___o

He's stupid.

It's kind of funny how when SmashChu talks about how Smash is, everyone sides with Kuma, but when Kuma mentions his ideas for how Smash could be, everyone backs away from him.

I don't like EITHER of them when they fight. They need to get divorced already.

 

[SmashChu]

How you mean competive Smash is not Smash exactly?? If anything those guys would know exactly what is broken about a character and what not...

When you changes rules, you change the game. If I played Street Fighter 4 with 30 seconds, 50% handicap and no Ultra, it would be different from infinite time, infinite super and starting with max ultra (for you MvC guys, Lv 5 super from start). Likewise, if I played Starcraft in 1v1, 2v2, FFA and 4v4, than the balance would be different. The balance is going to be different because how the mode works is different. Strategies are different. Preferred abilities are different.

Competitive Smash isn't Smash because they played a very striped down version. They remove almost everything and claim that they understand what's balanced. How can it be. If I change certain attributes in Street Fighter, the balance changes. Same for Smash. Changing things changes the game. Since they remove so much, they create a bottleneck.

People will say "No Smashchu. Your wrong. We can use any option because the game let's you." That's flawed because 1) The game was made as a response to competitive fighting games, 2)There is no proof the game is balanced for your way of play nor does Nintendo ever endorse it (yet they will mock you. Remember "Real men use items"?) 3)Just because I can make any rules I want doesn't mean your way is the right one where you can tell other people their character sucks.

Actually, #3 is why I hate competitive Smash Brothers. They try and say they are the right way and wont listen to anyone else. Seen this a thousand and one times.

 

[Starphoenix]

It's freaking Dixie. Like a toy being made of her ups her chances anymore.

The Dixie toy was only in reference to me thinking that outside of the internet Dixie Kong and King K.Rool are not really regarded. So because I am not so bent out of shape about being wrong I saw that and wanted to humorously retract what I said.

 

[nLiM8d]

Ouch, how embarrassing.

SSBFan, I'm all ears on that subject.

Competitive Smash isn't Smash because they played a very striped down version.

Funny, I thought it was because items spawn in random locations providing an unfair advantage to an otherwise pristine battlefield. That and the chances of certain projectiles being capsules is another random chance event that divis out cheap KO's.

This is all relative.

Competitive smash is a bout testing a person's expansive knowledge of his or her desired character against another's. As much as the set up is tweaked this way or that way, as long as it is done in a fashion that is balanced and "approachable" to any single person, then it is ideal.

People will say "No Smashchu. Your wrong. We can use any option because the game let's you." That's flawed

A contradictory argument indeed.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It's not that "their way is the right way," Chu.

It's that they prefer to play the game in that way to the exclusion of everything else.

Who are you to tell them how to play a game?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Deleted member]

Ouch, how embarrassing.

SSBFan, I'm all ears on that subject.



Funny, I thought it was because items spawn in random locations providing an unfair advantage to an otherwise pristine battlefield. That and the chances of certain projectiles being capsules is another random chance event that divis out cheap KO's.

This is all relative.

Competitive smash is a bout testing a person's expansive knowledge of his or her desired character against another's. As much as the set up is tweaked this way or that way, as long as it is done in a fashion that is balanced and "approachable" to any single person, then it is ideal.



A contradictory argument indeed.

Maybe one of these days I'll expand it into something of an essay as to why I think relevancy is not how we perceive it. I consider relevancy to be an important criterion that Sakurai takes into account when considering characters, but I do not think most people fully understand what Sakurai considers relevant and what he considers irrelevant. I find it silly to rule out a character just because the game they last appeared in has been X years ago when they could very well be relevant to Sakurai's eye. Which is why I feel Saki Amamiya and (to a lesser extend) Krystal are relevant to Sakurai when considering SSB4, because Sakurai has a bias towards Sin & Punishment and Star Fox. Likewise, despite Captain Syrup appearing in Shake It!, I do not think she is relevant in Sakurai's eyes considering the bias Sakurai holds against the Wario Land series.

 

[nLiM8d]

I agree with you that most are uninformed about how relevancy is weighted. I didn't know that the Wario Land Series was on a tight leash myself.

That might explain why Wario's moveset bears small or surface level resemblance to the signature moves found in that series.

If you're up to it, go ahead and essay away.

 

[Shorts]

The Dixie toy was only in reference to me thinking that outside of the internet Dixie Kong and King K.Rool are not really regarded. So because I am not so bent out of shape about being wrong I saw that and wanted to humorously retract what I said.

I don't even know what you're talking about. But okayyyy~

Well, you know what. I find it funny that you think IM BENT OUT OF SHAPE about no one agreeing with me that Toad is'nt likely, but YOU'RE the one who decides to REFERENCE IT outside of the SSBDG. If anyone here is bent out of shape, it's you.

I was just POINTING OUT that what you said was silly.

 

[Oasis_S]

Maybe I'm not Oasis_Speculator. Maybe I'm Oasis_**** after all. I think I'll go lie down for a while.

 

[nLiM8d]

That's not his style at all...you got it all wrong.

Oasis underscore STAR star star star? Its like OG but without the racist black stereotypes involving chickens!

I love it O_S! (boy does that look like Vergil's AVI)

 

[Oasis_S]

Oasis_Starphoenix. His cosmic ashes reborn into an oasis of clear, free-flowing thought.

 

[Hoots]

I don't even know what you're talking about. But okayyyy~

Well, you know what. I find it funny that you think IM BENT OUT OF SHAPE about no one agreeing with me that Toad is'nt likely, but YOU'RE the one who decides to REFERENCE IT outside of the SSBDG. If anyone here is bent out of shape, it's you.

I was just POINTING OUT that what you said was silly.

Don't worry! I also agree that Toad is incredibly unlikely. I would much much MUCH prefer Paper Mario as another Mario rep if it can't be Geno. Just imagine how interesting his playstyle could be!

Edit: Also, thanks to N for this amazing sig.

 

[Shorts]

Geno is the fifth and final Mario character I want. I need him.

ALSO, I was thinking, what do you think about FOUR Fire Emblem characters? Brawl almost got three... and Chrome MAY be well recieved. Then we have that young man who is reffered to as Roy. I suppose it would depend on if Chrome even is a good choice I guess.

On another note, I'm VERY SAD to inform everyone that I doubt my poll will make 1000 votes before 2012. 900, for sure, but I doubt 1000.

The 2012 poll will be up January first, so don't forget to REVOTE~