New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Starphoenix]

Mario should get his Ground Pound as his down aerial or down special.

 

[BirthNote]

It's kind of funny how when SmashChu talks about how Smash is, everyone sides with Kuma, but when Kuma mentions his ideas for how Smash could be, everyone backs away from him.

Good observation. I stay out of those though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mario should get his Ground Pound as his down aerial or down special.

It'd be better than FLUDD. Anyway, yeah, I think he was the first after Bowser to use it. Bowser used it in World or SMB3, I forgot which. There may have been more.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Fox for top tier would be less broken than MK due to being fast faller, light and poor range.

Smash 4 should be like Melee, Brawl and add new aspects, like slide side smashes ( for side smashes that move character forward, dash and use side smash. This will propel user a considerable distance with characters that have high range side smashes (Wolf, Falco, Fox, Kirby, Jiggs, Falcon, and Diddy Kong).

U know in masterpieces, you can play old games? How bout playing ssb64 or melee or brawl for a 10 minute session on ssb4?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Here's a question I'd like to pose to Nintendo someday, do they seriously try to troll fans with the roster?

Don't dis my Honey Queen. Don't even go there.

It would be boring if everyone had the same options. It would mean everyone, for example, would play like Mario. Ideally, you should have an incredible diverse roster of playstyles that are all balanced against each other.

Just because a game is "balanced" (whatever that means) it doesn't mean everyone has the same play-style... considering there are different moves, specials, sizes, weights, ranges, power... Balance wouldn't affect that in the slightest, unless you guys mean something different.

 

[Berserker.]

Actually, Saurai MAY CARE TO AN EXTENT about over representation, I recall reading an article where they used those exact words, but I don't think it was simply oriented towards characters. I think it was just trying to not have TOO MUCH MARIO, or ZELDA (Something he actually says he DOESN'T WANT) content in Smash. Trying to keep it even in that respects. Nothing like Smash congress which so many people like to turn this into.

That was only regarding to Kirby. He never said anything about Mario or Zelda

My problem with Toad is that I just don't see him too much of a fighter, and his roles are always this background character, or a placeholder for another character. In NSMBWii, toads were simply Mario and Luigi. Nothing different about them. In SMB2, Toad (and Peach in a lot respects) got their attacks simply from the character's they replaced.

Ice Climbers and ROB. That is all.

Seriously though, like I said, he does things Mario does. Since Mario is in the game, it wouldn't be a problem for Toad to be in the game.

Sakurai only seems to bring up Toad being: Fast and Strong, good with Karts, and being peaceful.

Wait first

Just because a game is "balanced" (whatever that means) it doesn't mean everyone has the same play-style... considering there are different moves, specials, sizes, weights, ranges, power... Balance wouldn't affect that in the slightest, unless you guys mean something different.

What he meant by same playstyles is pretty much same moves, specials, sizes, weights, ranges, power... which will make a game balanced but at the same time, boring.

Balanced games can be boring though imo.

Yes, though to be honest, I can't say that I do think of Toad when I think of the mario series. In dwelling, their representation is indefinite.

He was playable in a game that set for each key character to be playable. Not sure what can be said of SMB3, but their inclusion in SMW was very broad. SM64 they were hiding in various locations of peach's castle (located in the "Mushroom Kingdom" ergo: of course!).

The really hefty place that we were practically intimate with their "culture" was Paper Mario. Which is awkward, cause' this is how debates like these start.

Then (at least to me) it all becomes a matter of iconic reference versus accessibility of source material. Meaning, Toad is popular, PM is "developed" per say.

At the end of the day, I'd like some variation where audience members (Paper Mario) can run down the battlefield 2:22

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Truth is actually, if you think inside the box and not outside: Most people assume that Toad has appeared in most games and judging from his popularity, he's still liked and known for that. Lol

 

[nLiM8d]

There's a distinction between terms of balance and terms of accessibility. 1% of the characters hold 99% of the talent? Occupy Smashboards!

he's still liked and known for that.

Well I wouldn't know anything about that.

 

[Berserker.]

Surprising it took this long as they ban everything else. It was innevitable they would ban a character. Competitive Smash is a joke in that it doesn't even play Smash Brothers. It's playing some weird game that just looks like Smash.

I think I get where SmashChu is coming from.

Basically, MK and Ganondorf was imbalanced but they're main reasons were for 4-player item battles. But the truth is that Smash can be played casually or competitively as long as you have fun. There's no pin point.

Well I wouldn't know anything about that.

HERP

Wrong words to use. Let me change that.

What I meant was, Toad is still famous and liked despite the fact that people may assume that he appeared in all games. The fact remains until now. Toad still has a huge (HUGE) fanbase.

 

[victinivcreate1]

U know in masterpieces, you can play old games? How bout playing ssb64 or melee or brawl for a 10 minute session on ssb4?

I like Toad lot, I hate Bowser jr. sand personally has a better chance of being a semi clone than unique. Hoever, Toad has chances that are under BJr. People expect Bjr. which is why on polls he is winning. But people want and actually actively support him.

 

[Berserker.]

I like Toad lot, I hate Bowser jr. sand personally has a better chance of being a semi clone than unique.

Since it's your personal opinion, I won't pelt you for it.

Hoever, Toad has chances that are under Jr. People expect jr. which is why on polls he is winning. But people want and actually actively support him.

Riiiiiiiight........

You should go see GFAQs and see the activity of it's support.

Just to make it clear (And it's kinda surprising) : Jr's support is extremely inactive.

Also, Toad is actually winning in most polls than Jr. (Inside SSB and outside) so I don't get where you got all of these things.

 

[Starphoenix]

Victini you should consider fixing your signature. It should look like this below.

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Remove the spaces inbetween the URL and the IMG tags.

[COLLAPSE="Proper Coding"]

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[nLiM8d]

What the **** just happened with your formatting?

v (his words not mine XD) v

 

[Conviction]

Sweet, so that means the Pac West will dominate in this discussion.

Spoiler

waits for Iblis

Hell no.

Just caught my ex in a lie. The convo was GOING DOWNHILL because I didn't want to talk to him, so he OF COURSE brings up Nintendo. Tries to tell me he is getting a 3DS for Christmas. Goes on about how he played Mario Kart 7 in Belfast while visiting Oxford for school or something. He told me he played as WALUIGI, and then I was like, ***** I know you didn't just lie to me?

What a fool.

*grumbles and walks off*

LOL

There's no pinpoint definition of how Smash should be played.

Thank you for being the voice of some damn reason.

In other words Chu shut the **** up. Your way of playing the game is just as bad as playing ours. Sorry the delevopers gave us options in the game. God forbid.

I've always sided with Kuma...

 

[Starphoenix]

In Chu's defense I believe all he has said is that Smash Bros should not be catered to the competitive community when they are in the minority.

 

[nLiM8d]

I have an idea: All these characters that were all like "oh my gosh, i don't know "

Is there anything wrong with developing them as boss characters? Video games do it all the time, they're balanced "enough" for the period that you challenge them.

Bowser Jr vs Toad? BAM! bossfight with Jr.

Problem solved.

In Chu's defense

I don't recall any good reason why us good folk should attack him. Lets leave that conversation as is

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I've never gotten in the middle of Chu/Kuma debates, but honestly I understand what Chu is trying to say, and I guess I'd defend him if I wanted to get involved. I liekSmash the way it is, and it gets quite annoying how people constantly compare it to traditional fighters and games like MvC and Street Fighter. It isn't any of those, and it's not supposed to be like any of those... it's good ol' Smash Bros. And I'd like it to stay that way.

 

[Starphoenix]

Well it was not as much as he needs defending, but since he is not hear I was just attempting to clarify his position. Tis me...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In Chu's defense I believe all he has said is that Smash Bros should not be catered to the competitive community when they are in the minority.

No, Chu made it clear that he believes we're playing it wrong and should not be doing so. Which is untrue, since there's no right way to play a game as long as you are changing options freely given to you by the developers. As I said before; If the option is there, that means it was intended on being used in some way.

Likewise, we have Tournament Mode. Tournaments were something that were thought of being played, maybe not with our ruleset, but in general.

I've never gotten in the middle of Chu/Kuma debates, but honestly I understand what Chu is trying to say, and I guess I'd defend him if I wanted to get involved. I liekSmash the way it is, and it gets quite annoying how people constantly compare it to traditional fighters and games like MvC and Street Fighter. It isn't any of those, and it's not supposed to be like any of those... it's good ol' Smash Bros. And I'd like it to stay that way.

No, that's not the problem. It's that we should NOT be running tournaments with our own rules that seems to be what people are annoyed with when it comes to Chu. I fully agree it should have as few traditional elements as possible. Smash is fine the way it is in general.

 

[nLiM8d]

Here's the verdict then.

On one side, we should have a series that can stand on its own staple, not trying to be something it isn't

Meanwhile, it should attempt to push the boundaries of what it has accomplished for the sake of showing us they can still introduce something new.

The two fit together like

I feel somewhat disgusted...

 

[Starphoenix]

Fortune Street is making me want Dragon Quest in the next game (again). Whether it be Slime, Erdrick, Hero or Terry just somebody. The two series fit together like peanut butter and jelly. ^_^

Here's the verdict then.

On one side, we should have a series that can stand on its own staple, not trying to be something it isn't

Meanwhile, it should attempt to push the boundaries of what it has accomplished for the sake of showing us they can still introduce something new.

Perfecto! That sums up my thoughts. Jejeje

I feel somewhat disgusted...

Oh stop.

 

[Berserker.]

In Chu's defense I believe all he has said is that Smash Bros should not be catered to the competitive community when they are in the minority.

Sakurai said that Smash 4 will be both good for both casuals and competitives.

Basically, casuals can enjoy it casually, competitives enjoy it competitively

I've never gotten in the middle of Chu/Kuma debates, but honestly I understand what Chu is trying to say, and I guess I'd defend him if I wanted to get involved. I liekSmash the way it is, and it gets quite annoying how people constantly compare it to traditional fighters and games like MvC and Street Fighter. It isn't any of those, and it's not supposed to be like any of those... it's good ol' Smash Bros. And I'd like it to stay that way.

I can't really name one move that was directly ripped from MvC or Street Fighter that I suggested (Other than that Smash meter).

There's nothing wrong though with borrowing some elements from traditional fighters. Just avoid CHUing too much.

Bowser Jr vs Toad? BAM! bossfight with Jr.

Problem solved.

Works.

The main thing now is Toad vs No Mario characters. Although, it's stupid since overreping is BS and Toad not being a well... a fighter is also pretty stupid since er.... Just check the brawl roster then the answer will be clear

 

[nLiM8d]

Wait, does that mean casuals can compete against competitives? So by the associative / transitive property competitives can casual against casuals? I'm confused!

The main thing now is Toad vs No Mario characters

Well now there's PM...

 

[Oasis_S]

X Factor for Smash?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

X Factor for Smash?

IT'S ANIME POWER-UP TIME!

Smooth Criminal

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wait, does that mean casuals can compete against competitives? So by the associative / transitive property competitives can casual against casuals? I'm confused!

Technically, since a casual may become a competitive. But it's more like Casuals and Competitors can have their own versions to play with. The game'll be balanced enough so both can enjoy.

Well now there's PM...

Is a serious contender thanks to a new Paper Mario game, although adding another Mario in general... is questionable.

 

[nLiM8d]

Technically, since a casual may become a competitive. But it's more like Casuals and Competitors can have their own versions to play with. The game'll be balanced enough so both can enjoy.

Oh thank you for clearing up that dilemma

 

[Berserker.]

Wait, does that mean casuals can compete against competitives? So by the associative / transitive property competitives can casual against casuals? I'm confused!

What HF said

X Factor for Smash?

*Imagines MK in X-factor*

*Shivers*

In all seriousness though, combo - type characters should have low amount of damage boost and speed boost IF XFC were in the game but I'm not for the suggestion. Never mind

 

[Big-Cat]

Technically, since a casual may become a competitive. But it's more like Casuals and Competitors can have their own versions to play with. The game'll be balanced enough so both can enjoy.

One thing, though, that the game should NEVER strive for is narrowing the gap between the top players and the bottom level players. You not only remove a lot of the depth of the game, but you take away part of the fun of the game which is the journey to the top.

EDIT: X-Factor can die in a fire.

 

[nLiM8d]

I don't fully comprehend what that means, you know there was a time when folks just made games and people played them.

 

[Oasis_S]

The only reason we consider Paper Mario is due to his art style. There's the question of how well that art style can be translated into a moveset, which one could certainly make a case for, but I'm not really convinced it can be done well enough. A Paper Mario stage that forces characters into a papery style should suffice, IMO. The stage would be 3D, but characters are 2D like on Flat Zone 2 and Hanenbow. It may also be possible to apply a black outline around the characters, as well as having a "rotating" effect when characters turn around.

 

[Berserker.]

I don't fully comprehend what that means, you know there was a time when folks just made games and people played them.

I think what he means is that targeting for that middle gap between casuals and competitives means removing the aspects of what makes brawl casual and what makes brawl competitive.... I think

The only reason we consider Paper Mario is due to his art style. There's the question of how well that art style can be translated into a moveset, which one could certainly make a case for, but I'm not really convinced it can be done well enough. A Paper Mario stage that forces characters into a papery style should suffice, IMO. The stage would be 3D, but characters are 2D like on Flat Zone 2 and Hanenbow. It may also be possible to apply a black outline around the characters, as well as having a "rotating" effect when characters turn around.

Like you said though, the only scenario that would make sense is:

Playable Toad
Jr. as a boss fight
Paper Mario stage

 

[Oasis_S]

Junior as a boss? No way, Assist Trophy would be much better for him.

I mean, if he couldn't be playable. MUCH MORE PREFERABLE THAN TOAD.

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't fully comprehend what that means, you know there was a time when folks just made games and people played them.

A beginner player shouldn't be able to beat a top player easily. That's the gist of what I'm saying.

 

[Berserker.]

@Brosis: Or maybe.... Bowser's partner

I'm gonna revive N's solution:

4 slots for the Mario series

Mario
Luigi
Peach and Toad
Bowser and Jr.

6 characters = 4 slots

 

[nLiM8d]

He should just button mash the through that ****! I get u Ku.

OASIS: Stop touting all your bull****!

Or maybe.... Bowser's partner

Air Ship FS!

 

[Berserker.]

I mean, if he couldn't be playable. MUCH MORE PREFERABLE THAN TOAD.

I will not troll you but I will annoy you by saying, "It's your opinion so I will not pelt you for it".

A beginner player shouldn't be able to beat a top player easily. That's the gist of what I'm saying.

OH I SEE.

I feel like reviving the SSB 4 online topic

Edit: Your best friend, Thino, is here Brosis

 

[yani_]

A PM stage sounds like a really cool idea, perhaps a 3DS exclusive?

 

[Starphoenix]

The only reason we consider Paper Mario is due to his art style. There's the question of how well that art style can be translated into a moveset, which one could certainly make a case for, but I'm not really convinced it can be done well enough. A Paper Mario stage that forces characters into a papery style should suffice, IMO. The stage would be 3D, but characters are 2D like on Flat Zone 2 and Hanenbow. It may also be possible to apply a black outline around the characters, as well as having a "rotating" effect when characters turn around.

Umm I support Paper Mario because I like him...

Realized I quoted the wrong quote.

 

[nLiM8d]

I support star because I like what he said...

 

[Deleted member]

I'm on the fence in the SmashChu and KumaOso debates as you may or may not know. On the one hand, trying to change the fundamentals of Smash is a dangerous and potentially costly thing to do and trying to add fighting elements can be either highly beneficial or drag down the game. However, like other franchise, Smash needs to change with every installments (as it has been doing). It cannot just add up things that it already has and slap in a few mode. Eventually, customers will get tired of the same thing and quit buying it. It needs to be able to evolve in game play as it has been doing and needs to be able to differentiated itself from the past titles with it's own style of play and I am very confident that Sakurai will learn from most (if not all) of the mistakes of Brawl and I trust Sakurai to improve the game play.