New Smash Bros for WiiU

[augustoflores]

i like how your avi matches your quote broserker

 

[Berserker.]

Sup.

Chu hasn't posted yet thus I can infer that his post is more than 1 paragraph or 2.

 

[Starphoenix]

I am not on anybodies team exclusively. I accept everyone as they are. :3

Also, John reminds me of Rover from Animal Crossing.

 

[Berserker.]

@Augusto: What quote?

 

[augustoflores]

you didn't quote anyone... the words you yourself used....

"What about meeee D:?"

 

[Berserker.]

you didn't quote anyone... the words you yourself used....

"What about meeee D:?"

OH. The one with Toad being.... HEEEEY. Toad's not mad. It's called an idle sprite. Ya know... Like this one

>:I

 

[Metal Overlord]

Anyone here play Mortal Kombat? If so, do you know about the Friendship finishers? Just curious

 

[augustoflores]

yes... but is that relevant to smash? imma hold you accountable if you're gonna go astray with this.

 

[Oasis_S]

I am not on anybodies team exclusively. I accept everyone as they are. :3

Such hippie talk.

 

[Tacket]

Wow, I now realize how ****ing stupid I sounded in that post Metal quoted.
I apologize for that, goddamn.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@augusto- Yes actually, because I just had an idea I wanted to share that involved friendships in some form

Wow, I now realize how ****ing stupid I sounded in that post Metal quoted.
I apologize for that, goddamn.

You don't have to apologize, I kinda sounded like an *** myself in that post

 

[Berserker.]

yes... but is that relevant to smash?

Um....

I don't understand what relevance to smash has something to do with this conversation.... My bad.

OH I GET IT. Off topic = Thread lock. MY BAD AGAIN

Such hippie talk.

Peace?

 

[Starphoenix]

Wow, I now realize how ****ing stupid I sounded in that post Metal quoted.
I apologize for that, goddamn.

Live and learn man. Just take everything in stride and try to add to the discussion.

Since Xenoblade is coming to America now, even if only as a Gamestop exclusive, how does everyone feel about Xenoblade content in the next game?

 

[augustoflores]

bro... was talkin to metal... chill...
anyways... the gaystop gamestop exclusive is a rumour.

 

[Berserker.]

bro... was talkin to metal... chill...
anyways... the gaystop exclusive is a rumour.

WHOOPS.

My bad again D:

 

[Metal Overlord]

Anyways, the idea I had was that if two players were in a tie during a VS match (and after the match, they then preceeded to fight in a Sudden Death match) and after one of the players wins, during the results screen you could show the runner-up an act of sportsmanship or friendship (such as high-fiving them, bowing to them, shaking hands with them or giving them a present) for giving the winning player such a good match.

It sounds kinda silly but I think it could be kinda cool. What do y'all think?

 

[SwayneGang]

I just thought of something. You know how in Link's side taunt, Navi appears? How about if his up taunt was changed so that Fi could appear and his down taunt would cause Midna to appear? Briefly, of course. But still...

 

[Berserker.]

Noob alert: Who's Fi?

 

[Tacket]

@Metal
Yeah, I should've thought about that one.

@Star
I still made some valid points I believe. I just didn't think before posting on a few posts...

 

[SparkJavelin]

the personification of the Master Sword.

oh my... i started on this thread first and you already have 56 posts... you've really been burning that midnight oil. (i know exactly when we both started... i lurk in the shadows as a guest.)

 

[yani_]

@Star I'm hoping to see Xenoblade content in sm4sh.

 

[Opossum]

For Xenoblade, I personally hope that Shulk becomes playable, based on what I have seen so far.

 

[Berserker.]

Off for now guys. I'm gonna play Silent Hill

 

[Metal Overlord]

None of y'all bishes want to comment on my idea?

 

[augustoflores]

(maybe you should post/show up more... or start trolling... though i wouldn't recommend it.)

does anything happen to Fi at the end? didn't play skyward sword. am holding out until Wii U to get wii games. (due to my hatred of G-Stop, will play wii games via friend trading/borrowing.)

 

[Tacket]

What would antagonists do?

 

[augustoflores]

define your question... it's too broad.

i like the idea Swayne... it's like if the Link from Sm4sh is an amalgam of all of the Adult Links.

 

[---]

Gamestop? I just go to Play N Trade. They have more games available and at the same prices as Gamestop.

 

[Tacket]

define your question... it's too broad.

i like the idea Metal... it's like if the Link from Sm4sh is an amalgam of all of the Adult Links.

Sorry, I guess?

Also, it was for Metal if you didn't know.

I mean, it would be out of character for Ganon to be showing signs of sportsmanship.

 

[augustoflores]

speaking of amalgamation... that's how i want Link to be treated... like he is all in one and not based exclusively on one iteration.

 

[SmashChu]

Before I get to these, let me back track because, thinking on it, I may have messed something up.

I implied that there is no play style and that everything is void. That's not 100%. So I'm going to step back on the big picture and point out the two things I see that I'm trying to get people to avoid. I'm trying to get people to avoid the Capcom way, which is really just a bad way and what you'll see most people do (so, it's not exclusive to them, but it's a big way they make characters). Basically, we DONT:

1. Pick characters that are unique
2. Try to force a set style onto the character

What we DO want to do

1. Pick a character because people will want to play as him/her
2. Incoperate moves the character does when we can. Try to infer moves from style personality when we can't

The second is a lot harder. I will note that anyone who wants to continue this debate look at a blog post HextupleyooDOT made. Here

SmashChuuu... How do you see Ridley? :3

Here's what I do when I make these movesets, and I'm pretty sure Capcom and other developers do this as well. First, I look at the different characters and think of their moves. Then, I think of some possible specials and then I try to find a way that they're all part of a larger system that defines how the character plays. Take Krystal for example. I took into account the attacks from SFA and thought of what her specials would be. In her case, I thought of Fire Blast, Ice Spray, Quake, and Boost for her specials. I also took into consideration that she uses a staff. So, with her staff and specials, it seemed like a good idea to make her a mid-range, versatile character so I made the move list based on this while using moves from SFA. Sure, some attacks were made up, but the majority of them are straight from the game.

When you were making your accusations about the playstyles for Ridley and Toad. You failed to take into account that berserker and I came up with these descriptions based on the movesets that have been posted in the past. You should do some research and wonder as to why we had those descriptions.

You mentioned Krystal, so let's roll with that. We'll apply my rules. First, should she be playable. "Yeah, Smashchu, she should be. She's unique."

SMACK. No. Unique doesn't matter. Any character can be unique. There is a whole thread dedicated to making movesets for Homer Simpson and Mr. Pants. Anyone can make a character unique. The point is should Krystal even be playable. The problem she has is a lot of people don't want more Starfox characters, so they tend to ignore her. There are some that hate her because she not only attracts a certain audience but forces drama into the games. At the same time, people support her because 1)Female and 2)Unique. These are usually recipes for disaster.

Now let me blow your mind. Why does Krystal need her staff. People point this out because it's "unique." But it shouldn't matter. heck, she hasn't used her staff in the last two games and she really didn't use it in game. So shouldn't she be interesting without it? If that is all she has, why add her. We don't pick characters just because they are unique. It helps, but with characters like Lucas, Wolf and Toon Link, it proves it's not a requirement.

But let's hop back to Toad (which is a big reason why I wrote all of this). Toad is a perfect example of shoehorning. He is quick and small, so BAM, mix up. But why? Does he even lend himself to mix-up? So why is he about Mix-ups. This is an example of force feeding styles. Yeah, he's fast, but why is he a mix up. I made an item moveset in response to the bad mix up and changing styles others gave him. But I'm doing Toad movesets because people actually like Toad. It all flows together.

But let me say this. Remember when Chrono and I were talking about Waddle Dee. You said "Naw, let's add Ceada or another FE character instead." That's what I'm talking about. We want what Waddle Dee brings to the game, less the spear moveset. We found the character fun. That is what is important.

Lastly,I can't know every little thing you made up. I'm not doing research. I did this post because of something you said and all the Toad stuff going on.

Mention Smash in terms of other fighting games, insult Smash, make references, small or large to other fighting games in regards to Smash ideas and he throws a fit. Tries to justify it by saying X is or isn't Smash or some kind of arbitrary crap.

This is a common case of internet whining because "You don't agree with my opinion." I have always called you out on this because you try to turn Smash into Kuma's dream game. I argue against you because you don't want to understand Smash. You want to make it like games you like. Sound familiar.

The problem I have with the suggestions that come out of Kuma and beserker are that they are not very Smash. They are pretty much right out of the Capcom book. Some may say it's not that bad, but let me put it this way. A few years ago, there was a new Battlestar Galactic. While the original was popular and spawn a few spinoffs, the new one suffered in ratings. When they made a new one, it did poorly, being beaten by Enterprise reruns. The Star Trek movie ran into a similar fate. In both cases, the creators of the new series hated the old one. Zelda has a similar happening as Anouma hates classic Zelda games. Zelda game have become a bargain bin game in Japan because of this.

Wait a minute.....

So what about Snake, Wario, Zelda, Jiggs, (other characters). Don't they have moves that all help their "certain" playstyle? Oh and playstyles aren't the thing of Sakurai. He just picks the characters. The playstyles are identified by the players of the game.

What play style. What does Rest and Sing have to do with a play style. Or even RollOut. Pound is probably the only one you have geared towards a set way to play as her. Most of the characters have moves with multiple purposes. That's what I meant when I said no "shoehorn."

Chu is right regarding what Sakurai thinks. You see.... The 2 points, one being Sakurai only paying attention the the character and the other regarding the playstyles are waaaay too disjointed to be argued about. Playstyles are just something we have fun trying to predict and wish for but it's not as likely. Characters are actually not so hard to predict even though it's not assured. They're practically 2 different topics so I don't understand the point of debating about them.......... FUN FACT: Most of the character's playstyles in competitive brawl resemble to most SF and MvC fighters. Just sayin'

This is an excuse to keep saying stupid things. Here is the thing: people want to keep making this stuff without understanding what Smash is. You fail to try to understand what Smash is. What is the identity of the game.

And one more thing... Did you know that only 1/16 of the moves in my movesets are ripped from SF. Most of them are just either from SSU or they're original. Also, there are characters who are extremeeeeely reliant on mix ups. Problem is that this is in the view of the competitive side. Most of the characters are not so reliant on mix ups but once you take up competitive, you'll find out that mix ups are pretty much important in the game. I know Sakurai never notices but ERM... OKAY. In general, Smash is simple at first but competitively speaking, it's seriously complicated. Please understand that this is aimed towards the competitive side rather than the casual side. Casuals can enjoy playing the game casually and competitives can enjoy the game competitively. Pretty much goes like that in most fighting games.

There is the problem. Let me make this very clear. Smash is not about competitive play. Great games stay great when they ignore the competitive community. Smash has done well to ignore them. So mix-ups are not designed into the game like they are with other Capcom fighters. Sakurai takes a very general approach with characters as many of the moves have multiple purposes and don't fit into a nice style (Jigglypuff for example).

I miss posters like HextupleyooDOT because he tried to understand Smash. Too many people here want to argue that Sakurai has been doing it wrong. Too few people try to really understand the game. This is how we end up with "Let's make Smash every other fighting game."

 

[augustoflores]

you know what? i actually want to read this wall of text... i've always ignored it.

*takes out reading monocle.*

 

[yani_]

Excellent post chu.

Pick 5 stages from Brawl you'd like to stay in sm4sh.
1. Pirate Ship
2. WarioWare
3. Ice Climber one
4. Pictochat
5. Luigi's Mansion

 

[---]

To help go with SmashChu's post:

1. The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.

2. The character must be unique.

3. The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.

4. They must contribute to the game balance.

^^I knew I'd end up posting this again. lol

I miss Hex as well.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Hex was cool

@Brawl stages: Delfino Plaza, Skyworld, Green Hill Zone, Shadow Moses Island, Lylat Cruise (is that the name)

 

[augustoflores]

i also miss hex. though i didn't know him for long

eww pictochat? anyways...
smashville
norfair
halberd
Temple
mushroom kingdom 64

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mostly agree with Chu, although I do think unique can indefinitely be a good reason. Ice Climbers are a team. That's unique and what makes them so interesting to play as. Of course, really, if you look at Sakurai's old criteria, he did say they should want to be played as. If unique was a major reason, there would be no playable clones.

As for stages...

Brawl Past Stages I'd like-
Pirate Ship
Port Town Aero Drive
Mario Circuit
Castle Siege
Shadow Moses Island
Smashville

(well, since 6 often get chosen. Smashville's the 6th anyway)

 

[Oasis_S]

Butbutbut... Junior's paintbrush... Krystal's staff... They could be fun...

THEY COULD BE... *cries*


I feel so BROKEN.

 

[SmashChu]

I mostly agree with Chu, although I do think unique can indefinitely be a good reason. Ice Climbers are a team. That's unique and what makes them so interesting to play as. Of course, really, if you look at Sakurai's old criteria, he did say they should want to be played as. If unique was a major reason, there would be no playable clones.

True. It is still a valid point. Sakurai does have unique on there. I might take some time in the future to really delve into those. If we understand that, we can understand who's getting in (maybe).

Butbutbut... Junior's paintbrush... Krystal's staff... They could be fun...

THEY COULD BE... *cries*


I feel so BROKEN.

It'll be OK......It'll be OK.

 

[Deleted member]

@SSB Fan
2:3 isn't really that significant, plus Star Fox is a classic game/series, the fact that they have 3 reps to DK's 2 could be justified by this logic. Wolf also has a pretty large fanbase.

It may not sound like much since it's just a one number different, but DK has sold over 50 million copies in it's overall lifespan whereas Star Fox has barely broke 10 million total (heck, Donkey Kong Country almost completely outsells the entire Star Fox franchise). Not only that, Donkey Kong is far more important to Nintendo then Star Fox has been and Retro picked the franchise over Star Fox for a revival in the main series (heck, Sakurai picked Kid Icarus over Star Fox for a new installment, that shows Star Fox is not that important to Nintendo). Also, the most influential Donkey Kong game (DKC) is more important to Nintendo then Star Fox for SNES considering that more people got their hands on the latter. Donkey Kong has (at least) seven significant entries that sold over a million, Star Fox has only three.

Guess what happened in Brawl? Star Fox was treated better then Donkey Kong. DKC3 had no music, DKC2 had one butchered remix, and DK64 just had a rap song. DK also only had two characters in comparison to three for Star Fox (with hints for a possible fourth in SSB4 when it was said Krystal was the best choice). This shows that Sakurai's bias clearly plays a role in who gets in and it does not always mean fair representation.

I'm not even saying I'm 100% right (though I may clearly say it, I am joking). It's just an educated guess.

Next time before you get heat, please say "probably not" instead of "definitely not". It'll give you less heat on you.

Spoiler

@Asage
Because he's a cute (Pokémon term) legendary, and they are known to only appear in PokéBalls.
It happened with Manaphy...

True that it is Mew-like, and that it might get the Pokeball treatment due to that but it's not like patterns can't change. Here are some reasons why I feel Victini might be able to break this pattern:

- Is #000 on the Unova Pokedex, which already show that it is an important Pokemon the series. This is the very first one that is not a starter to ever be first.
- First Pokemon since Mewtwo to receive two movies and the first Pokemon movie since 2003 to receive movie theater releases outside of Japan (it will be in movie theaters tomorrow and Decmeber 4th). It is also the movie closest to Smash 4's development.
- Demonstrates ability to walk and animation in Black & White are one of the most developed.
- The first Mew-like Pokemon since Mew to gain a fan base for play-ability. Celebi, Jirachi, and Manaphy went by with barely any requests to be playable in SSB4. Victini, on the other hand, has fans supporting it's inclusion and is growing as we speak. From my observation, Victini seems to be passing Zoroark in being the most wanted in here and GameFAQs. I have also seen a supporter on All is Brawl, a few in Nsider2, and some on Youtube as well.

Manaphy was the Pokemon with the newest movie before Brawl came out and he didn't get in.

To be fair, Manaphy never really had a serious fan base and Lucario was the latest poster child of movies when Brawl was in development. Also, Darkrai was the lastest movie guy before Brawl was out.

Onto other topics, berserker01 and Propeller Toad would make for a great team. Also, I'd love to see 75M back, along with F-zero Port Aero Drive and Halberd.