New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Tacket]

You don't want to do this. Suddenly your name is known, but for what?

What are you saying?



@Opelucid

I'm making educated guesses.

 

[Deleted member]

@Tacket: If Sakurai is concerned about representative, he definitely doesn't practice what he preaches. We have three Star Fox reps and yet only two Donkey Kong rep. DK obviously deserves a third rep more, but Star Fox got it over DK.

Also, as for your comment on Ridley and Victini not being playable, I don't think we can rule other either to be playable, especially not the former. The Ridley size issue is nonexistence and Victini has shown to be different from the other Mews (I have work, will explain later).

 

[Aurane]

In other news: Victini will definitely not be playable in SSB4.

He has a high chance of being one of those ultra rare PokéBalls though.

Explain. Before I eat your brain.

 

[Shorts]

Of course it'll cross his mind at some point. It really depends on the actual popularity and significance of each series. For example, Mario having many characters is more acceptable because more people worldwide know and love those characters. But a series like F-Zero can easily get "over-represented" because it is lesser known and therefore, additions are lesser appreciated. While taking that into account, you can't forget about Sakurai's own personal limits when it comes to "over-representing" a series.

FINE, but his type of overrepresention DIFFERS GREATLY from the general public of this thread. He's CLEARLY much much more laid back.

Do you think he will hold back on including any Kid Icarus characters for this reason? Honestly, the series has only three games, and the were never the most popular games either. The only reason people expect another Kid Icarus character is because Sakurai revived the series. But like the Kirby series, wouldn't he be afraid over "over-representing" his own series, especially when "his" series isn't even that prominent anyway?

Iunno. Like Wario, I just don't think I can weigh in PROPERLY on this subject. Just because I have not much to work with in terms of what Sakurai THINKS about the two series.

I think both series IDEALLY should have three characters, but REALISTICALLY could get two.

Ideal: Wario, Mona, Syrup. Pit, Medusa, Palutena

Realistic: Wario, Mona. Pit, Medusa/Palutena

Again, I CAN'T SAY if I think either will actually get another character or not, but I think THEY DEFINITELY SHOULD.

@SSB Fan
2:3 isn't really that significant, plus Star Fox is a classic game/series, the fact that they have 3 reps to DK's 2 could be justified by this logic. Wolf also has a pretty large fanbase.

You're going to cause me to get infracted AGAIN.

 

[Tacket]

@SSB Fan
2:3 isn't really that significant, plus Star Fox is a classic game/series, the fact that they have 3 reps to DK's 2 could be justified by this logic. Wolf also has a pretty large fanbase.

@Asage
Because he's a cute (Pokémon term) legendary, and they are known to only appear in PokéBalls.
It happened with Manaphy...

 

[Aurane]

@Asage
Because he's a cute (Pokémon term) legendary, and they are known to only appear in PokéBalls.
It happened with Manaphy...

LOL ok, man. Better come up with something that'll matter to the character choices. If it's moveset or anything in character usage, look at my Blog. Anymore info needed, see SSBF.

 

[Tacket]

LOL ok, man. Better come up with something that'll matter to the character choices. If it's moveset or anything in character usage, look at my Blog. Anymore info needed, see SSBF.

I'm just going off things they've previously done in the series. I'm not even saying I'm 100% right (though I may clearly say it, I am joking). It's just an educated guess. If Victini is actually playable in the game, feel free to put it in my face.

 

[Aurane]

With pleasure, because logically, Victini is a better choice then Zoroark either way.

 

[Tacket]

@Shortie
Good.
I should probably continue whatever I am doing.

 

[Aurane]

Everyone's so tense. So am I. I'm gone.

 

[SmashChu]

Nah, it more has to do with how you have no idea what you're talking about.

You say that movesets were an afterthought when they put these characters into Smash. First off, do you have any proof that this is the case? If anything, it makes more sense to have an idea fleshed out reasonably before going through with it. That's actually where balance comes in. Even Sakurai has mentioned that there are so many variables in the balancing process and even mentions that characters must have strengths and weaknesses. You can't just put attacks together and hope you've got yourself a solid, balanced character. When you design a character, that character must have a general plan in mind when being played. That way, the developers can balance that character and the others while keeping that in mind.

This is the only part of this post that is a response.

You fail to see what I'm getting at. You think in styles. I think in characters. What you mentioned about Ridley and Toad are styles. That is the developer trying to define the playstyle. Players define that.

"But you can't slap everything together." Again, you miss the point. The point is not planning vs not planning. Sakurai plans everything from the get go, so it's not that. The difference is character vs style. Sakurai picks the characters, than pick the moves he wants to use all of which are based on the character. What your doing is what Capcom does which is either take a character and plan a moveset for them. The extreme is only pick characters that are unique and dump the rest (i.e. Megaman and MvC 3). EDIT: I wrote that wrong. I think I meant they take a moveset and plan a character to fit it or only pick ones that will result in a unique moveset. Yeah, sorry for the confusion.

Take this: You said Ridley is a counter character with great air control and Toad is a grappler. What moves make them do that. Are they moves that character does. basically, how is X what you said it was. It all leads back to picking a character and than picking moves.

As far as balance is concerned, that will always be a problem and I have yet to see a game on release be balanced. Example is Blizzard is VERY good at that, but even games like Starcraft were broken on release. Real balance comes from good patching.

I think I understand you a bit better now based off your big wall of text and your complaints on Skyward Sword. You really do believe that quantity dictates quality for not just sales but everything. You honestly believe that bigger is always better (then where's Ridley? ). It's never about quantity, but quality.

Trying to use quantity as a quality measurement is a logical fallacy. People would buy things based off reviews, but someone has to buy said product before reviewing so the whole thought process is paradoxical. Not only that, but if you have no reviews to go off, you're taking a gamble on the quality of a product. I know plenty of people that have bought plenty of things not knowing the quantity of them and they wish they never bought that stuff.

First, the second paragraph is wrong. Someone getting a review copy is not a sale. Most trackers take from retail data.

Second, I'm not going to talk about sales because that wasn't the point and never was. Again, your changing the topic because you can't keep going.

I'll finish it with this. The point is to understand Smash, not try to bend the rules because you don't like Smash as it is. What I'm trying to get people to do is focus and understand Smash. It is our best window into how to do a well loved cross over game.

Also, I'm not sure what was so hard to get. SSBF and asage94 pretty much got it.

 

[Opelucid]

With pleasure, because logically, Victini is a better choice then Zoroark either way.

I don't really know about that... Manaphy was the Pokemon with the newest movie before Brawl came out and he didn't get in. Manaphy not fighting isn't really reason because Victini didn't fight in its movie either it kind of just got carried around or followed the group around Shaymin actually did more fighting in its movie. I'm not saying Victini is an unlikely character it has a fair chance I just don't see what makes him different from Manaphy, Jirachi, or Mew

 

[Tacket]

Everyone's so tense. So am I. I'm gone.

I'm not tense, just really ****.

 

[Oasis_S]

HMMM, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, SmashChu, but don't we know that AT LEAST ON OCCASION Sakurai looks at characters on the basis of how interesting they would be as fighters? That's why we got Ice Climbers over the Excited Biker (Which, come to think of it, is a pretty successful series with installments on multiple consoles, as well as having its own spin-offs).

WOO!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know, Pichu was a small creature... look what happened to him?

While my personal pick is Genesect, I don't see any reason for Victini not to have a good chance of getting in like Zoroark as well. Likewise, I remember reading something about Dark Samus being an important villain. ...Sure, he was for at max, 3 games. Ridley's been important for... practically all the rest. If not all. He really is the most important villain among the most wanted for playable. Not to say that Metroids(in general), Mother Brain, and Kraid aren't important either.

Likewise, it really depends what games come up next to whether we get Toon Link or Young Link back. Both are popular enough.

 

[Diddy Kong]

By the time Smash 4 is there, both Victini and Zoroark are gonna be old news... 6th, and possibly 7th generation is out by then. So I'd not get my hopes up too much.

At this point it is actually almost useless to say whom is gonna make it, and who doesn't anyway... :/ imo, moveset revamps are the thing that keeps me interested most here. Especially regarding Link and Samus.

 

[Tacket]

@Oasis
You still haven't told me what you meant in your post towards me.

 

[SmashChu]

HMMM, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, SmashChu, but don't we know that AT LEAST ON OCCASION Sakurai looks at characters on the basis of how interesting they would be as fighters? That's why we got Ice Climbers over the Excited Biker (Which, come to think of it, is a pretty successful series with installments on multiple consoles, as well as having its own spin-offs).

WOO!

Kind of. Ice Climbers were picked because of uniqueness. But the idea didn't make the character. Ice Climbers were picked out of a pool of characters. Sakurai also mentioned reasons for not picking others.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can I get a link to where stuff like that has been said??

 

[Metal Overlord]

In other news: Victini will definitely not be playable in SSB4.

He has a high chance of being one of those ultra rare PokéBalls though.

Omniscient much?

@SSB Fan
2:3 isn't really that significant, plus Star Fox is a classic game/series, the fact that they have 3 reps to DK's 2 could be justified by this logic. Wolf also has a pretty large fanbase.

WAT

No comment, seriously...

yeah, that's because my opinions are GOOD ones. Unlike yours.

Seriously, these types of statements are like comparing penis sizes over the internet or some ****.

"My opinion is better than yours"

Hmm, I'm not going to lie, the last 3 pages are just full of dumb.

And so are these last 3 pages

 

[Ke$haOfTheFlies]

You fail to see what I'm getting at. You think in styles. I think in characters. What you mentioned about Ridley and Toad are styles. That is the developer trying to define the playstyle. Players define that.

What are you two even argueing about?

Character vs Style? We have BOTH. Sakurai thinks in character when developing a character, and we CATAGORIZE the characters he made into these different little sets we call styles. I don't see what you're getting at? The fact that Kuma thinks in styles, and you would prefer he didn't?

I just WANT TO UNDERSTAND why this is even being talked about.

 

[Shorts]

Seriously, these types of statements are like comparing penis sizes over the internet or some ****.

"My opinion is better than yours"

But Metal, I love doing that. So you should expect this from me.

 

[Metal Overlord]

But Metal, I love doing that. So you should expect this from me.

Just so you know, I was in agreeance with your post (I don't really understand asage at times), I just found that in particular funny so I commented on it

 

[Tacket]

Thanks for calling me omniscient, I agree.

 

[augustoflores]

i can already tell you're going to be a thumb tack in everyone's foot.

when humans show they are that much closer to God, the masses usually get scared and wind up killing them... just a forewarning (not necessarily foresight).

 

[Shorts]

Just so you know, I was in agreeance with your post (I don't really understand asage at times), I just found that in particular funny so I commented on it

*nods* I know. I'm not the crazy one~

 

[SmashKing201]

Kind of. Ice Climbers were picked because of uniqueness. But the idea didn't make the character. Ice Climbers were picked out of a pool of characters. Sakurai also mentioned reasons for not picking others.

I remember reading something a long time ago about how Ice Climbers & Balloon Fighter were tied in a poll to see who will be playable in Melee. I would provide the link, but its in japanese and I cant find it. From what was read, I think it said that Sakurai went with Ice Climbers since Balloon Fighter can only fight with balloons, which I disagree.

Speaking of retros, check out the completed sprited move set animation I made for Duck Hunt Dog :D
http://projectcrusade.forumotion.com/t99-duck-hunt-dog-complete

 

[Tacket]

i can already tell you're going to be a thumb tack in everyone's foot.

when humans show they are that much closer to God, the masses usually get scared and wind up killing them... just a forewarning (not necessarily foresight).

I was joking, you idiot.

 

[augustoflores]

i've been on this board a long time to know that you were. but i do not condone that kind of language in my classroom... minus 30 points.

 

[Pachinkosam]

i've been on this board a long time to know that you were. but i do not condone that kind of language in my classroom... minus 30 points.

YEAH YOU TELL HIM WHOS BOSS!!

any big news?

 

[Big-Cat]

snip

Here's what I do when I make these movesets, and I'm pretty sure Capcom and other developers do this as well. First, I look at the different characters and think of their moves. Then, I think of some possible specials and then I try to find a way that they're all part of a larger system that defines how the character plays. Take Krystal for example. I took into account the attacks from SFA and thought of what her specials would be. In her case, I thought of Fire Blast, Ice Spray, Quake, and Boost for her specials. I also took into consideration that she uses a staff. So, with her staff and specials, it seemed like a good idea to make her a mid-range, versatile character so I made the move list based on this while using moves from SFA. Sure, some attacks were made up, but the majority of them are straight from the game.

When you were making your accusations about the playstyles for Ridley and Toad. You failed to take into account that berserker and I came up with these descriptions based on the movesets that have been posted in the past. You should do some research and wonder as to why we had those descriptions.

What are you two even argueing about?

Character vs Style? We have BOTH. Sakurai thinks in character when developing a character, and we CATAGORIZE the characters he made into these different little sets we call styles. I don't see what you're getting at? The fact that Kuma thinks in styles, and you would prefer he didn't?

I just WANT TO UNDERSTAND why this is even being talked about.

Mention Smash in terms of other fighting games, insult Smash, make references, small or large to other fighting games in regards to Smash ideas and he throws a fit. Tries to justify it by saying X is or isn't Smash or some kind of arbitrary crap.

 

[---]

Well I finally got a decent idea for a Metal Gear stage.

And like usual I need songs!

 

[Opossum]

Lots of stuff went down today.

I'll put in some input on certain things that were said.

First of, while the arguing is rather pointless since it is over opinions, I have to agree with Shortie as opposed to asage. Jigglypuff has been in all three games, so by precedence, he probably isn't going anywhere. Also, she has a completely unique fighting style.

Now, for ROB and the Ice Climbers, it is pretty ludicrous that one may think that they'd be cut. I don't have the source on hand at the moment, but I remember seeing somewhere that Sakurai himself specifically said that he wanted retros in the game. That helps quite a bit. Why remove a retro when he wanted them to begin with? Also, they're completely unique moveset-wise. Also, asage, how does ROB have a bad moveset?

Olimar is in an even safer situation. How, asage, could you believably support his removal when so many things point toward his staying in the game? When cuts occurred in Melee, four of the five who were cut were clones. Mewtwo was most likely excluded due to time constraints. Subsequently, these cut characters are, in respect to other fighters, relatively unpopular and viewed as random. Many were added for the purpose of adding filler characters, a la Dr. Mario. It's not like they cut Bowser over Dr. Mario, or Zelda over Young Link. Now why, in the name of the Pillsbury Doughboy, would they remove a character who was not only among the most popular choices for Brawl, but also arguably the most unique character to ever grace Smash Bros.? Additionally, among the cut characters that were cut, they were from established series. If Olimar was removed, it would decimate an entire series in Smash. What other character would represent Pikmin, a popular, first-party Miyamoto created series, better than Olimar? Louie would be the only semi-logical choice, and it's a horrid one over Olimar, who has been in both of the games.


Please, asage, respond to this. Not trying to fight, I just want to see a response to this. I'm kind of interested to see your thought pattern.


Also, I managed to find a seemingly semi-reliable source claiming that Sakurai has thought about Muddy Mole for Smash as a playable character. Can anyone verify this source?

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/molemania/molemania.htm

 

[Aurane]

*nods* I know. I'm not the crazy one~

...Ok, that's the last straw.

You guys r on 24/7 about a game that's not going to come out for another 2/3 years. You guys wanna do it? Fine, be my guest. But this speculation bs gets the game nowhere. You think they care about Smashboard's opinions are on this game? No, they don't. Sure, you can say Popularity will get a character in. Well, Ridley is popular. He's a boss, but not playable, which could be the same sort of fate to others like him, such as the god forsaken Geno, who's been asked for for the longest of times. Go ahead and vote for characters like Ridley, Mega Man, or Tingle. They haven't made it then, and they won't now. The words here are speculation, but they aren't useful. I cannot believe I'm wasting my time here when I could be playing games that are already out. BTW if you wanna speculate on something, how about speculating what hasn't been spoke of? Maybe it would get quieter around here. But I could care less.

Am I crazy now? Tell it to someone who's me and cares, which is no one. I deserve no sympathy for what I try to say, but here's a hint on what I mean now: You guys are jerks to me all the time, and if no one wishes to acknowledge this, then I don't have to listen to you guys. Oh, and btw Shortie, Pro Tip: If I were crazy, I'd be supporting all 600+ Pokemon for Smash 4. And don't try and say you weren't calling me crazy, cause I know u were.

Got more to say? Keep it to yourself. No one wants to hear it. They probably don't wanna hear me blathering right now. So, you guys go ahead and pretend your Mr. Sakurai's planning staff, and have a wonderful night. Will I be back? No. And I bet you like that. Good, because I do too. And to everyone here: My name is ASage, not sausage. Good night.

 

[yani_]

Lots of stuff went down today.

I'll put in some input on certain things that were said.

First of, while the arguing is rather pointless since it is over opinions, I have to agree with Shortie as opposed to asage. Jigglypuff has been in all three games, so by precedence, he probably isn't going anywhere. Also, she has a completely unique fighting style.

Now, for ROB and the Ice Climbers, it is pretty ludicrous that one may think that they'd be cut. I don't have the source on hand at the moment, but I remember seeing somewhere that Sakurai himself specifically said that he wanted retros in the game. That helps quite a bit. Why remove a retro when he wanted them to begin with? Also, they're completely unique moveset-wise. Also, asage, how does ROB have a bad moveset?

Olimar is in an even safer situation. How, asage, could you believably support his removal when so many things point toward his staying in the game? When cuts occurred in Melee, four of the five who were cut were clones. Mewtwo was most likely excluded due to time constraints. Subsequently, these cut characters are, in respect to other fighters, relatively unpopular and viewed as random. Many were added for the purpose of adding filler characters, a la Dr. Mario. It's not like they cut Bowser over Dr. Mario, or Zelda over Young Link. Now why, in the name of the Pillsbury Doughboy, would they remove a character who was not only among the most popular choices for Brawl, but also arguably the most unique character to ever grace Smash Bros.? Additionally, among the cut characters that were cut, they were from established series. If Olimar was removed, it would decimate an entire series in Smash. What other character would represent Pikmin, a popular, first-party Miyamoto created series, better than Olimar? Louie would be the only semi-logical choice, and it's a horrid one over Olimar, who has been in both of the games.

Respect Oppossum. Respect. I doubt Sakurai would ever cut an entire series anyway.

 

[Big-Cat]

Damn asage, you gotta stop taking this stuff so seriously. You're being too sensitive with this discussion.

 

[Oasis_S]

"I DON'T CARE. I'M LEAVING. *stays viewing the thread for a further 15 minutes*"

Opossum, you kind of remind me of the ONE GUY who wanted IVYSAUR against all odds, yet he got his wish. Muddy is sort of in a better position, but I do hope you get your wish. You want it SO HARD. Adorable.


EDIT: "NO WAY I'M TOTALLY DOING OTHER STUFF THAT'S HOW I WAS ABLE TO RESPOND TO YOU IMMEDIATELY."

 

[Aurane]

@Oasis I'm copying all the info I made on this thread, moveset wise, seens how you're SO curious.

@Kuma Am I, really? Maybe so, but you guys do this tio me all the time, when I can simply find my xbox controller and ignore you guys. I realized that I won't be making alot of sense on here if I continue.

@Oasis2nd Wasn't really immediatly. I just got done. I only scrapped up a few things. It seems that you want me to yank your chain for some reason. Sorry to sink your boat, but I'm not interested in someone who reads sausage over asage.

Aww, **** it. I'm out. Though I know you'll say SOMETHING. But, honestly I don't care. Have fun speculating for a game that isn't out for 2/3 years.

 

[Opossum]

I hope so, too. Although, just to clarify, it's not just pure ambition and endless dreaming for Muddy in Smash, but beneath the fluffy and adorable exterior of the opossum in my avatar, there lies a man seeking the truth about Muddy: why he should be in Smash. That, and I noticed that I tend to gravitate toward lesser liked/appreciated things. Opossums, Curling, Accordions, and Muddy for SSB4 to name a few examples.


@asage You didn't respond to my question D:
I legitimately want to hear your response.

 

[Oasis_S]

Incidentally I can't help but read it as "a-sa-ge" as though it were Japanese, which APPARENTLY MEANS breakfast. This amuses me to no end.