New Smash Bros for WiiU

[yani_]

Yes square owns him but he's mario at heart. Square be trollin with dem rights

 

[Johnknight1]

I was talking about a third Fire Emblem spot. However, there is always the chance that Fire Emblem will be limited to only two spots.

Also to ---. thanks for clarifying. I am not trying to crush all hope, I am just saying my own assessment. I personally want Toad, but know full well that Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. can get in over him. Really the Mario newcomer spot is pretty difficult to predict, and I feel currently that all three have relatively equal chances.

If Fire Emblem had only 2 spots, and one was Marth, this "debate" could turn into a full fledged Brawl, with all kinds of camping, stalling, and planking!

I still think Paper Mario between the three potential Mario newcomers (Paper Mario, Bowser Jr., and Toad) is the runaway favorite. I don't know why, but I got that "gut" feeling about him. Like Paper Mario is destined to be playable in Smash 4.

I still think if Paper Mario gets in, Toad and Bowser Jr. still have a nice shot. Currently between those two, I gotta say it still looks and feels even, but I think Bowser Jr. has an edge for better or worse. (♪!? is a wild card, which I won't go into now)

Also, Krystal will definitely, 100% be a character in Super Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS... who won't be playable...

 

[ChronoBound]

I think that Paper Mario is a very attractive choice for a multitude of reasons. The Paper Mario series is top notch, and it would be great to see if Intelligent System's most notable series aside from Fire Emblem to finally get a playable spot. I prefer Toad to him though, however, I would have no misgivings if he were to get in over him because he is both very worthy and has the potential to be a very interesting character.

 

[yani_]

I have to say I see so much more Toad/PM support than I do Jr lately. I think Toad's chances will increase after Sakurai plays SM3DL

 

[Shorts]

Maybe I am the only one who just see's Sakurai making that Xenoblade (Gaur Plains) stage? I have a gut feeling on this one like nothing else. It just seems perfect. The only other stages I have that gut feeling about are with an Epic Yarn stage and the Starship Mario.

When was Pikmin, and when was Melee released? There's something someone has said about Smash never getting new characters from new IP that is released between games.. although I guess that DOES NOT apply to stages. (Pictochat)

But stages aren't the tippyest of tops in terms of representation.

I
As to Fire Emblem characters with a "reasonable" shot, its pretty much only Roy and Chrome.

Agreed. I pretty much think Fire Emblem will get three spots, maybe more. I mean Roy WAS planned for Brawl, so at one point Sakurai thought that three is dandy.

Then why is that you always look to cause a scene when we discuss Krystal by dismissing her? Why do you dismiss her?

She's so gross. Now Lip fans, they're beautiful souls.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Chrono
I still think it is likely we could get two new Mario characters. As I've noted before, Paper Mario to me, just seems destined for smash bros. The Paper Mario is not just well-received, but each game in the series has sold very well (each selling more than the lost as well). With a new Paper Mario game on 3DS, Paper Mario just seems "ready" for smash bros. I felt similarly with Ike and Olimar in Brawl.

Plus Paper Mario has attracted and gotten a pretty big and dedicated fan base. As you noted, Intelligent Systems still needs to be acknowledged in smash for what they've done with that series. Having almost all the "big name" Nintendo-owned characters out of the way (Ridley and tons of Pokémon aside) definitely helps too.

Again, Toad and Bowser Jr. still, in my opinion, got a solid chance if I'm right about Paper Mario. And if I'm not right (which is always very possible), one of them will probably be playable in smash. There would then also be a small chance both could be playable, too.

 

[Deleted member]

I have to say I see so much more Toad/PM support than I do Jr lately. I think Toad's chances will increase after Sakurai plays SM3DL

Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and to a lesser extend, Geno and Waluigi, all have a considerable fan base, but they scored low because of the intense competition for rep. Which is why I feel that in Create the SSB4 Roster, none of the Pokemon newcomers will do well.

 

[yani_]

@shortie pikmin was released a few days after melee



Nvm read the dates wrong. It was a day before melee

 

[Drifty]

If Toad gets into ssb4, I imagine him to be a really light and floaty character with fairly weak moves. He'd be as useless as melee Kirby.

 

[ChronoBound]

She's so gross. Now Lip fans, they're beautiful souls.

I have condemned lolis too. Particularly when the Ashley cult was in full bloom.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's probably because the overall Mario series is extremely well-repped, SSBF.

Many other series barely have two characters. Metroid only has one actual person, who has two forms. F-Zero has only one character, with tons of choices to pick from.

Really, even if the Mario series got no one in the next game, they're not that off from completion. If anything, they're indefinitely missing Toad amongst the playable characters in the regular series. And that's it. Well, there's Baby Bowser too(but he becomes Bowser, who is playable, so that doesn't count).

Now that I think about it, amongst the major playable characters, there's only Toad, Mallow, Geno, and the Babies. All those Babies are playable in their adult form already, so that's not a problem. Mallow and Geno are both third party. That just leaves Toad.(that is not basically a villain or a form of another person)

The only one left is the Yoshi and Wario series. (DK spun off from its own game, and Mario Bros. spun off from that same game, so neither are a spin-off of eachother, to clarify)

 

[---]

Lip?

Well I'm planning on buying/importing Panel De Pon in a week or two, so I'll take a look at her as a character when I get my hands on it.

 

[ChronoBound]

Lip?

Well I'm planning on buying Panel De Pon in a week or two, so I'll take a look at her as a character.

Why are you buying Panel de Pon when you can just get Tetris Attack? Its simply Panel de Pon without the fairies.

 

[Big-Cat]

I have condemned lolis too. Particularly when the Ashley cult was in full bloom.

Lolis need love too. Why else do we have the Arcana Heart series?

 

[---]

Why are you buying Panel de Pon when you can just get Tetris Attack? Its simply Panel de Pon without the fairies.

Wait you make a good point. Never mind I forgot about Tetris Attack.

Not to mention I looked and just found out it's cheaper anyway.

$7 vs. $25 is not a hard decision. lol

Either way this just means more money for me to spend on Rockman and Forte or X2.

 

[Shorts]

Pikmin was released a Month (in japan) and a day (in US) before Melee. So there. I wonder if this random anomaly will continue? Hmm... IUNNO.

 

[Johnknight1]

I have condemned lolis too. Particularly when the Ashley cult was in full bloom.

Oh God, don't even go there. There were all kind of loli loving people supporting all kinds of characters. There were even those who supporting a younger Krystal loli furry.

Don't even remind me of the nasty 4chan raids on this site. It was nasty. I was only here for one of a couple of them, but they were bad. 4chan raided said site multiple times around 12-3 Pacific Time/3-6 Atlantic Time, so it would stay there for a while. Unfortunately, the dojo updates were usually at 12:00-12:30 Pacific Time/3:00-3:30 Atlantic Time, and few of the mods or admins would stay up with us for the dojo updates.

Nasty stuff like that (even the non... "revealing" stuff) oughta be banned from these here Boards. We don't like yer' loli and furry kind!

 

[Shorts]

I have condemned lolis too. Particularly when the Ashley cult was in full bloom.

I remember when you brought up a EBAY COMMENT that "supported" Lip's inclusion. Don't try to weasle out of this one~ If I'm a furry lover for liking Krystal, you love yourself some loli :D

Nasty stuff like that (even the non... "revealing" stuff) oughta be banned from these here Boards. We don't like yer' loli and furry kind!

You're.... rediculous.

 

[---]

I'm starting to think most of those fans are perverts who haven't discovered the Dead or Alive series.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know of the series.

I actually don't play games for the Fanservice(of the sexual kind) unless they're literally H-Games.(and many are fun. I like Jigsaw Puzzle versions myself)

Anyway, you should only play Panel De Pon if you want to see Lip in action directly.

 

[ChronoBound]

I remember when you brought up a EBAY COMMENT that "supported" Lip's inclusion. Don't try to weasle out of this one~ If I'm a furry lover for liking Krystal, you love yourself some loli :D

EBAY comment? What?

I have only said that I think Lip would be an interesting character if placed in. I think that in terms of Japan-only retro characters, Takamaru will likely get in over her (if any Japan only retro is to get in at all). I also have a soft spot for Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon because it has one of my favorite soundtracks in any video game. I am not a Lip supporter though.

 

[Shorts]

Knockknockknock~


Well, whenever you're ready to come out of there... we're all here for you <3

 

[Deleted member]

@HyperFalcon: The four we have are definitely great choices, but I honestly do feel that since it got five in Melee, it should get one in SSB4 and I see no reason for the franchise to stay at four reps and not just because it is the best selling franchise in the world. Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario are more recognizable then the majority of Smash characters that are already in. It is their recognition and importance to the Mario series that makes them worthy of a spot and represents things that the core characters cannot do. Toad represents the servant of Peach that helps Mario out on their journey (and much more), Bowser Jr. is the sidekick to Bowser that keeps Mario on his foot and block his goals, and Paper Mario represents the most well known Mario RPG series that many cherish.

Spoiler

Super Smash Bros. 4's Top Roster Candidates v2

Super Smash Bros. 4 has been announced and the one thing that pops into almost everyone's head is which character they want to see in SSB4. Another thing that the fans are curious about is who are the most popular roster candidates. This should give a good insight on what the fans want to see and who are the most popular candidates.

In order to participate, post your votes via thread post and I shall go through and tally the numbers. Each day, you are allowed to vote for up to five candidates (only one vote per candidate) until the voting has ended (you are free to vote for a different candidate the next day). Then whoever comes out on the Top 20 will be in a showdown of who is the most wanted in which the Top Five will be declared the "Most Wanted Character" for SSB4. When this come, you only get to pick one candidate.

Rules:
1. Follow the rules of the site. I cannot stress this enough.
2. Respect the choices that others have made. You may not like a character's choices, but you do not have the right to flame what the person choose. They made the choice and it stays.
3. You are free to suggest additions to the roster, but if they have not appeared on a Nintendo console or did not appear in a video game, I will not add them to the list. Note that I will not restart the day just because I add a character.
4. Don't vote a character because you expect them or to troll the roster. Likelihood =/= what you want. Understand that this is purely for what you want to see, not what you think is likely to happen. And if you think trolling the poll is a good idea, not only will your votes be taken away, I will also report you for trolling.
5. Since this place is on GameFAQs, Smashboards, and Youtube, I hold you all to a honor system in which you only vote in one of these places per day to make sure the results are accurate.

Failing to comply with the rules will result in losing your votes and the ability to participate in this poll.

[COLLAPSE="FAQs"]How long will this round last?
This will be from December 1st to December 31th, 2011.

What about for the Top 20?
That will be from January 1st, 2012 to January 31th, 2012.

Will you provide updates as the thread goes on?
Yes and they will be daily.

Where are you hosting this event?
In here, GameFAQs, and Youtube.

[Collapse="Character pool to pick from"]Super Mario Bros.
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Paper Mario
Waluigi
Rosalina
Daisy
Dr. Mario
Fawful
Birdo

Donkey Kong:
King K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Funky Kong
Cranky Kong

Yoshi:
Kamek
Baby Mario & Baby Luigi
Shy Guy

Wario:
Captain Syrup
Ashley
Mona
Jimmy T
9-Volt
Kat & Ana

The Legend of Zelda:
Young Link
Majora's Mask Young Link
Ghirahim
Tingle
Toon Zelda & Toon Sheik/Tetra
Vaati
Midna
Zant
Skull Kid
Wolf Link & Midna
Ralph

Metroid:
Ridley
Dark Samus
Anthony Higgs

Kirby:
Bandanna Dee/Waddle Dee
Knuckle Joe
Dark Matter
Rick
Prince Fluff
Nightmare
Magolor
Galactia Knights
Whispy Woods

Star Fox:
Krystal
Leon
Slippy

Pokemon:
Zoroark
Victini
Genesect
Meloetta
Keldeo
Mewtwo
Meowth
Pichu
Heracross
Scizor
Deoxys
Plusle & Minun
Gardevior
Darkrai
Pokemon Ranger
2nd gen Pokemon Trainer
3rd gen Pokemon Trainer
4th gen Pokemon Trainer
5th gen Pokemon Trainer

F-zero:
Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow
Jody Summers
Deathborn
Pico
Dr. Steward

Mother:
Masked Man/Claus
Poo
Paula
Jeff
Ninten

Fire Emblem:
Roy
Krom
Lyn
Hector
Elliwood
Ephiram
Michaiah
Soren
Black Knight
Sigurd
Caeda
Leaf
Liz
My Unit

Kid Icarus:
Palutena
Medusa
Magnus

Pikmin:
Louie

New Series:
Little Mac
Isaac
Matthew
Saki Amamiya
Isa Jo
Starfy
Ray
Shulk
Kanan
Elza
Captain Rainbow
Tom Nook
Animal Crosser
K. K. Slider
Mii
Kalas
Alexandria Rovias
Chibi-Robo
Andy
Dillon
Jill Dozer

Retro:
Lip
Takamaru
Mach Rider
Duck Hunt Dog
Sheriff
Diskun
Balloon Fighter
Alice
Sukapon
Muddy Mole

Third-Party:
Mega Man
Proto Man
Bass
Zero
Ryu (Street Fighter)
Zack & Wiki
Phoenix Wright
Leon Kennedy
Chris Redfield
Jill Valentine
Viewtiful Joe
Geno
Mallow
Neku Sakuraba
Lloyd Irving
Cless Alvien
Marina Liteyears
Crono
Magus
Duke Nukem
Slime
Sora
Cloud
Chocobo
Moogle
Professor Layton
Ryu Haybausa
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow
Dr. Eggman
Grey Fox
Bomberman
Simon Belmont
Goemon
Rayman
Travis Touchdown
Pac-Man
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro
Earthworm Jim
Brian
Nightmare
Ivy Valentine
Banjo-Kazooie
Fulgore[/collapse][/COLLAPSE]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@SSBF: I was counting Wario and Yoshi as part of the Mario reps as they specifically spun off from that series.(The DK series spun off from itself, with Mario Bros. also being spun off from it)

But good point. I feel that Wario and Yoshi also should get one along with one more direct Mario character. Regardless of where it comes from.(Spinoff or not)

I posted my list before. I think Metroid and F-Zero should get a second completely different character before we get a fifth full Mario character, well, they should all get some. Ridley, Kamek/Shy Guy, -Insert WarioWare or Land character here-, Toad/Bowser Jr./Paper Mario/Waluigi, Waddle Dee, Chrome/Roy/Lyn/Hector, Samurai Goroh/Pico(either would be great), and that's all I can think of.

Captain Louie would just be easier as a costume for Olimar, since they weren't actually much different from eachother. Likewise, Pikmin from Pikmin 2 were already given to Olimar, so both games were repped fine. Obviously, some series really don't need a second character, like Game & Watch or R.O.B. They do their job perfectly alone.

Also, tell me when the poll starts so I can vote.

 

[Deleted member]

@HyperFalcon: I have seen a few rosters on GameFAQs that had Louie on it. Perhaps this means there are supporters of him for SSB4 and it'll grow if Pikmin 3 is a launch title on the Wii-U.

The poll starts on December 1st, 2011 for the first round and ends on December 31, 2011. Likewise, the Top 20 will be from January 1st, 2012 to January 31th, 2012.

@ChronoBound, SmashChu, KumaOso: As someone familiar with the previous version, do you have any suggestion on what I might add/change?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@HyperFalcon: I have seen a few rosters on GameFAQs that had Louie on it. Perhaps this means there are supporters of him for SSB4 and it'll grow if Pikmin 3 is a launch title on the Wii-U.

The thing is, Olimar didn't do much alone. It was the Pikmin that was the key part of the moveset.

I worry that Louie doesn't even have the potential to be different. It's not like with other "clones" who actually could easily be different. Toon Link/Young Link have tons of items that they could use instead of being a clone. Lucas and Ness actually each have their own Psi moves, and let's note that they only shared 1 nearly identical special. PK Thunder. PK Fire had different properties. PK Flash and PK Freeze... do I need to explain this one? Psi Magnets actually worked differently in gameplay overall.(much like Fox and Falco's Reflectors work differently)

I mean, did any clone in Brawl even have an almost purely identical one to their original? Falco played differently. So did Wolf's. Luigi's moveset is already too different now with no specials being exactly the same as Mario's. The closest they have is the Super Jump Punch and that's it.

I just wish Ganondorf had his own B moves overall.

If anything, Brawl has no true clones or anyone that freakin' clone as Melee's.

 

[Johnknight1]

You're.... rediculous.

There was all kinds of

Spoiler

mudkip

porn from 4chan. It was nasty.

Plus you should have seen all the furry posts by the Krystal fans. I'm not labeling you or anyone here as a furry, but most of the Krystal fans had some... overly revealing furry pictures. It was all kinds of nasty.

Also, if I'm so ridiculous you would have spelled it right...

I'm starting to think most of those fans are perverts who haven't discovered the Dead or Alive series.

The Krystal fans in the pre-Brawl days maybe are mostly perverted, but that is a big if. The ones who posted the most definitely were. The (General) fans of attractive female characters on the Smash Boards definitely were not perverted. Although the Zero Suit Samus fans were initially pretty disgusting in their posts and posted pictures of Zero Suit Samus, and some of them still are.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think for Bandanna Dee you should put:
Bandanna Dee/Waddle Dee

This is because Bandanna Dee is technically a fan name, and Bandanna is referred to as Waddle Dee in Return to Dream Land.

 

[Shorts]

64: Two Mario characters added (Mario and Luigi)

Melee: Three Mario characters added. One late addition. (Doc, Peach, Bowser)

Brawl: None added

SSB4: What do you expect? If Sakurai wanted Toad, Junior, or PMario.... wasn't Brawl a perfect place to add them? I mean there isn't even PLANS (that we know of) to make any of them playable. We had the possibility to get Doc back in Brawl.... but that's it...

Why add none, and then add one? It makes no sense to me. I'm BETTING the Mario franchise is done. I just don't see why he wouldn't add another if he didn't find it important or needed? Mother got one over Mario...

I'm betting none. But if one shows up, it's probably going to be Toad, or on an even more off chance, Junior.

You're.... ridiculous.

There you go.

Plus you should have seen all the furry posts by the Krystal fans. I'm not labeling you or anyone here as a furry, but most of the Krystal fans had some... overly revealing furry pictures. It was all kinds of nasty.

You like women... I don't... do you see me freaking out over Peach? No. Just mind your own dirty business. I mean, it's freaking 4chan. It's all your fault for going there. I don't find your non-labels-labeling very nice.

LASTLY, tthe furry fandom means nothing to Sakurai. Neither does the hentai, yaoi, shota, or loli. So, people should really get over it. Krystal showed up in Brawl, Fox, Wolf, and Falco are playable.

Krystal is only as dirty as you make her. Same goes for every character. JUST MOOOVE ON~

 

[Johnknight1]

Why add none, and then add one? It makes no sense to me. I'm BETTING the Mario franchise is done. I just don't see why he wouldn't add another if he didn't find it important or needed? Mother got one over Mario...

I'm betting none. But if one shows up, it's probably going to be Toad, or on an even more off chance, Junior.

Because all of the "big" Nintendo-owned characters are already in smash, minus Ridley and arguably Dixie Kong and K. Rool. Now we got a bunch of characters that had smaller supporting fan bases before Brawl came out. Things are different now. In Melee, we didn't have Diddy Kong, Wario, new favorite Olimar, and retro favorite Pit. Now they're in.

Now the rest of us are clamoring for who we think will make it. As much as I love to look in the past to gain future knowledge, many elements that are missing. We don't know what to expect.

Truly, with TWO GAMES being made at the same time (which hasn't even been started yet), the "race" for playable character roster is going to be so nuts. This time, it will make Melee and Brawl's playable character roster "race" look normal and drama free! Expect any and everything. It is gonna be madder than March Madness, a mad hatter (due to heavy Mercury exposure), or March weather!

You heard it here first, folks! I am prepared for the worst/best to happen at the same time! We're all gonna be divided into so many segments of the character debate with so many characters that sane and smart people think are "likely" an outsider would assume us sane and smart folks think there will be over 100 playable characters!

 

[Deleted member]

@Shortiecanbrawl: I think Sakurai intended on having five reps for Mario, just like he intended to have five (six?) reps for Pokemon, just that he didn't have time to put them in when you take into consideration that many of the big guns not in Melee were added to Brawl. Now with SSB4, the potential newcomers are far less noticeable by fans and aside from Ridley, possibly K. Rool, cut vets, and Victini/Zoroark (I'd say Mega Man/other well-known third-parties, but I'm only including Nintendo examples), there are no characters not in Brawl as noticeable as the three Mario reps. If playable, Toad/Bowser Jr./Paper Mario will be one of the biggest new faces to Smash. Sakurai wants characters with worldwide appeal and they are the best for it.

 

[Shorts]

Nah. I don't see it like that. Yes, now there are a lot of big names out of the way, but what does that mean if he sees the series as complete?

Essentially, all the characters that were ever top dogs in Mario are in Smash. Besides the four we have now, we have Yoshi, DK, and Wario who were big Mario names at one point. (Still are to an extent)

I'm just saying, if he was going to add TOAD/JUNIOR, why didn't he plan on doing it instead of adding DOC?

Makes no sense to me that his tune would change now. If anything, wouldn't he just add Doc?

But, you never know I guess. I'm not betting on it, that's for sure.

that many of the big guns not in Melee were added to Brawl

For good reason, I might add. He wasn't going to add Dedede and MK because he didn't want to over represent his own creations, and then remember the whole Diddy/Rare "scare". Just a thought. I don't see reasoning on his part for not adding Toad/Junior in Brawl. Like I do with these pups.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

-waits for SSBF to reply to what I said to him-

To make this message be less sucky and a +1 post count, all mini-games must come back. They were all good overall. Likewise, Targets for each character again, or ATLEAST their series. The latter is tolerable, and less generic.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Am I the only one that would find it interesting for Sakurai to finally finish Kirby's original design Popopo, and put it in Sm4sh as a trophy, JUST so we can see what he looks like?

 

[Johnknight1]

Nah. I don't see it like that. Yes, now there are a lot of big names out of the way, but what does that mean if he sees the series as complete?

When did Sakurai say he views the Mario or the Mario roster in smash as permanently complete=??? They have a bigger role in the franchise now. At the very least Sakurai and the Smash Bros. development team will have to at least consider Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Toad because of their larger role within the realm of the Mario franchise.

Essentially, all the characters that were ever top dogs in Mario are in Smash. Besides the four we have now, we have Yoshi, DK, and Wario who were big Mario names at one point. (Still are to an extent)

Nearly all the "top dog" characters nearly everyone knows by name in smash, but the same goes with other series. Ask the average gamer how many Nintendo characters they know that aren't playable in Melee or Brawl, and you will get only a few names. Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario will probably be amongst the few names.

I'm just saying, if he was going to add TOAD/JUNIOR, why didn't he plan on doing it instead of adding DOC?

Makes no sense to me that his tune would change now. If anything, wouldn't he just add Doc?

All the other late Melee clone additions at least had some original features, except Doc. Doc was just a better Mario. Bowser Jr. and Toad could be totally unique, and would be more well-received. There's a lot more you could potentially do with them. Toad and Bowser Jr. got tons of moves from platformers. Doc has few options from his puzzle games.

But, you never know I guess. I'm not betting on it, that's for sure.

These upcoming two new smash bros. games there is going to be absolute insanity. It will make Brawl's insanity look small and sane. There aren't universally desired Nintendo characters. It will be mostly characters wanted by a large group (Victini), and like 3 characters wanted by the majority (Ridley). Everything will be wild once we get a trailer.

For good reason, I might add. He wasn't going to add Dedede and MK because he didn't want to over represent his own creations, and then remember the whole Diddy/Rare "scare". Just a thought. I don't see reasoning on his part for not adding Toad/Junior in Brawl. Like I do with these pups.

Kirby was probably the 4th or 5th biggest Nintendo franchise then. Having at least Dedede wouldn't be overkill. Why wouldn't Sakurai include a universally desired Wario=??? Everyone wanted me. No character in smash will ever be wanted as universally as Wario, including Ridley and Mega Man.

Spoiler

(except ♪!?)

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Still talking about Toad and Bowser Jr.?

So we know that Sakurai was planning on Dr. Mario appearing in Brawl while he has shown no consideration for Bowser Jr. or Toad. So you ask, why would he consider them now?

Because as many have pointed out before, most of Nintendo's "big guns" are already in Smash. It JUST SO HAPPENS that Toad is one of the remaining "big guns" along with Bowser Jr. (but to a MUCH lesser extent). However, before Brawl, Toad and Bowser Jr. simply did not measure up to the status of characters like Diddy Kong, King Dedede, and others who represented their own series much better than Toad and Bowser Jr. represent their own series. In order to get these "BIGGER guns" in, as well as keep as much of Melee's roster as possible, Sakurai didn't even consider Toad or Bowser Jr., which is also most likely why Dr. Mario was planned to return before the two were planned for the game at all.

So again, why would he consider them now if he didn't consider them earlier? Well... isn't it pretty obvious? The slew of characters that made it into Brawl has left room for characters like Toad and Bowser Jr. It's pretty simple.

Obviously, over-representation of the Mario series has NOTHING to do with this, considering we had five Mario characters in Melee and five planned for Brawl. So that argument is out the window. Yes, you could argue that other important characters need to be added too, like Ridley, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, a 5th-generation Pokemon, etc., but I find this to be a very unstable argument. How do you know there still won't be room for Toad or Bowser Jr. to be added? You don't.

See what I'm saying? Shortie, we use the words and actions of Sakurai to help us determine what he might do next, not what he absolutely will do next. You've been relying too much on Sakurai's past words and actions that you seem to forget that time changes things and that if something happened in the past, it does not necessarily mean it will happen again. Patterns and specific guidelines like that would make speculating too easy... which it usually isn't that easy. I learned long ago to stop relying on patterns and specific "guidelines" because that simply is not the way it works.

64: Two Mario characters added (Mario and Luigi)

Melee: Three Mario characters added. One late addition. (Doc, Peach, Bowser)

Brawl: None added

This should prove to you how random the character's selection is. We get two, then we get three, then we get none. Who's to say we won't get one this time around? Or two? Or three again?

If Sakurai wanted Toad, Junior, or PMario.... wasn't Brawl a perfect place to add them? I mean there isn't even PLANS (that we know of) to make any of them playable. We had the possibility to get Doc back in Brawl.... but that's it...

By this logic, the only characters that have a chance of making it into SSB4 are Toon Zelda/Toon Shiek, Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong. No Ridley, no King K. Rool, no Little Mac, etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Another beautiful post by Spydr.

The only thing I would apply from Sakurai's words is if he says them now. Until then, he can change his mind.

Toad, Bowser Jr. Paper Mario, hell, even Waluigi(who got in before Paper Mario and Jr via an Assist Trophy, which means he made as much of a gameplay difference as Toad oddly enough in Brawl only) means he had some consideration for him. Which could apply to any Assist Trophy(which is another reason why the Generic Enemy argument is bullcrap too)

Overall, I really want to see the new roster, and I can't wait to see some of the new characters. Probably the thing I expect the most is Ridley, atleast one new Mario character(let's say Toad for convenience), Goroh, and maybe MegaMan in the Trailer. That would be great.

In Brawl's trailer, he showed off Wario(who's connected to Mario), Meta Knight(a Kirby character, so perhaps Waddle Dee would work too), A Third Party, a Metroid character, and Pit. So the last one could be Medusa.

But that's just off the last starting trailer.

 

[Johnknight1]

Man, once we get a trailer there may be anarchy. It will be mad. With Brawl (then Smash 3) everyone, and I mean everyone who religiously played smash wanted Wario. Everyone in the world, meanwhile, wanted Sonic. There won't be any of that.

Sure, most of smash bros. players definitely want Ridley and Mega Man, and possibly Dixie Kong and K. Rool as well, but they are far from universally wanted (except maybe Mega Man).

Instead, we are going to have characters not wanted by the majority, but wanted by large groups. There's going to be factioning off in a trillion directions (and not just for that coveted 5th Generation Pokémon spot) like people clamor for sports teams, except it won't be based off geography, there is no "home team," and all the teams play at once.

You guys know how our good friend SSBF has like a dozen to a dozen and a half character gifs/pictures that say "SSB4"=??? Expect to see a trillion variations of those, and a thousands of people supporting about 5-15 newcomers (passionately, and not just lightly) each. Odds are, you won't see the same 15 character combinations twice. It's going to be terrible, great, awful, awesome, anarchy, clan-ruled, fun, and dreadful at the same time or based on how you react to it/experience it. So... yeah=???

 

[Shorts]

See what I'm saying? Shortie, we use the words and actions of Sakurai to help us determine what he might do next, not what he absolutely will do next. You've been relying too much on Sakurai's past words and actions that you seem to forget that time changes things and that is something happened in the past, it does not necessarily mean it will happen again.

THANK YOU FOR THAT ADVICE! Oh my god. I thought everything was set in stone! You're so helpful.

But, you never know I guess. I'm not betting on it, that's for sure.

I'm betting none. But if one shows up, it's probably going to be Toad, or on an even more off chance, Junior.

CLEARLY, I thought I was 100% right.

I'm looking at patterns. Like you said MIGHT. We can't know WHAT Sakurai will do, but if we look at patterns, at least we can some up some reasons as to what he MIGHT do.

I don't expect them, because they had nothing stopping them from being in Brawl.

I don't buy your whole "They have only gotten more important" stuff either. They've stayed the same at best. Toad is Luigi2.0, and Junior is still a semi boss. They're good choices, I just don't think they're happening. Junior's biggest role was Sunshine, and Toad hasn't exactly changed much since Pre-Brawl. They had all the reasons to be added then that they do now.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS, this time around, the choices aren't as easy to read. Brawl could have been predicted the moment the trailer came out, minus a few choices. It was pretty straight forward.

 

[---]

@Johnknight: Anarchy? I must say you're starting to sound like the Joker with your love of it.

Also I think you mean Star, not SSBF, with those gifs.


@Spydr: Yep I agree. The word "might" is the name of the speculation game.