New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Berserker.]

 

[Oasis_S]

Do the alternate costumes in Marvel 3 have palette swaps of their own? That'd be neat. Isn't that how alternate costumes usually work?

 

[Berserker.]

You mean the DLC costumes? There's none.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Keep thinking! want to hear your arguments!

 

[Berserker.]

According to this document, Waluigi sucks

 

[Oasis_S]

I love seeing Broserker argue by sprites.

 

[Sonic Poke]

According to this document, Waluigi sucks

I bet that this document is not authenticated!!!!

But it is!!!!!

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13074950&postcount=16968

Not even an autopsy could say that Waluigi is so healthy!

 

[Berserker.]

The only thing I see here is a moveset. What does it prove. I'm not against Waluigi's moveset.

 

[Sonic Poke]

The only thing I see here is a moveset. What does it prove. I'm not against Waluigi's moveset.

It proves that he has potential !!!!!

 

[Berserker.]

Damn you for using PW sprites. I'll have to change then

Potential to have a moveset but how about being important and iconic?

 

[Sonic Poke]

Damn you for using PW sprites. I'll have to change then

Potential to have a moveset but how about being important and iconic?

Iconic!? mam-ma-ma-meh-meh-meh
You got me now!

Important!? You only need to ask if, even though it only has roles in spin-offs and crossovers, how much importance are these roles??

 

[SmashChu]

Oh great. The Phoenix Wright sprite thing again.

Been playing Skyward Sword. Might post a stage idea later.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Oh great. The Phoenix Wright sprite thing again.

Been playing Skyward Sword. Might post a stage idea later.

I will start to use pokemon sprites!

I had an idea and do not know if you'll like ... look:

The PT could use 6 PKMN!
would be simple, and in the way that I will put, will not be an exaggeration!

Might look like:

Senior team (Ivysaur [up arrow] selected):

By pressing the up arrow will appear Ivysaur (Grass + Poison Type)

By pressing the left arrow will appear Squirtle (Water Type)

By pressing the right arrow will appear Charizard (Fire + Flying Type)

Secondary Team (5th pokemon [down arrow] selected):

By pressing the down arrow will appear the 5th pokemon (Ground Type)

By pressing the left arrow will appear the 4th pokemon (Water + Ice Type)

By pressing the right arrow will appear the 6th Pokemon (Normal + Flying Type)

 

[Deleted member]

Oh great. The Phoenix Wright sprite thing again.

Been playing Skyward Sword. Might post a stage idea later.

What? I thought the game wasn't out yet.

If people so much as to want to change stuff, they should boycott stuff they don't like until something they want gets in. These same people who whine about X being a costume will likely end up buying it.

 

[Propeller Toad]

I completely agree with his speech on Bowser Jr, however, you did not use any argument with respect to Wluigi! You just said that he is garbage and over! I'm not convinced, moreover, it helps me to support Waluigi, because you support Toad saying that all his papers, although small, are important, even if it gives Waluigi!

I don't know whether I should interrupt the conversation that you and Berserker were having; however, how much more information do you need to know that Waluigi does not have a strong chance for Smash? Just think about it and it will become obvious. Waluigi is a pure spin-off character who on the first hand was not even made by Nintendo! Instead he was made by the company Camelot (which created the Mario's Tennis series). Already with this point, we know that Waluigi is not even Nintendo's own creation!

He was made for only two purposes. One to serve as Wario's partner and two serve as Luigi's rival. However, when you think of it, Waluigi is only getting the status he is getting today by just being Wario's partner. If Wario is important in a game, then Waluigi is too. However, if Wario is not important, then neither is Waluigi. Waluigi just cannot stand on his own when it comes to importance. He is like a tower while Wario is the base. Toad can stand on his own in the spin-offs and was even given his own partner (Toadette who was created like Waluigi, but this time by Nintendo themselves). Additionally, Toad is more important to the spin-offs and is often a much more merchandised and shown character. Even Bowser Jr. can stand as a standalone (look at his roles in the Mario Baseball games). Waluigi has never been able to do this (the only game he did appear without Wario was in an earlier Mario Tennis game.

Finally, don't you think Waluigi would have served a bigger purpose by now? It's been over 11 years now since his creation, and he still has nothing to boast about. Mario DDR, I really doubt that would help him if anything. He has yet to make an appearance in a mainstream Mario game. Daisy at least had some form of apperance in SML (which could be considered as a mainstream) even while being short. Even Toad's partner Toadette who was introduced several years after Waluigi made an appearance in Paper Mario TTYD (a RPG) and a cameo in the main game Super Mario Galaxy since her debut. You know something is wrong when a newer spin-off character makes more main game appearances than an older spin-off character. Additionally, don't you think Waluigi would have made an appearance in a Wario game by now? Even that he has not done (disregarding that some caricature of the character that resembles him in one microgame). It appears that Nintendo sees Wario to being able to stand up on his own, and as a result he does not need Waluigi in his own games. Therefore, Waluigi finally serves as one major reason to existing. As Wario's partner in the spin-offs...Being Luigi's rival is occasional, but not the main reason.

 

[---]

Oh great. The Phoenix Wright sprite thing again.

Been playing Skyward Sword. Might post a stage idea later.

Wait how did you get SS? I don't even think it's out in Europe yet and they're the ones who get it first.

What? I thought the game wasn't out yet.

If people so much as to want to change stuff, they should boycott stuff they don't like until something they want gets in. These same people who whine about X being a costume will likely end up buying it.

This. Although I just fine the hole concept of X being an alt to be pretty funny.

 

[---]

Sorry if I'm double posting.

@Mario reps: Since when did deserving become a legit character agrument? As I'm pretty sure these were the only requirements to get in:

1. The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.

2. The character must be unique.

3. The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.

4. They must contribute to the game balance.

 

[Propeller Toad]

^The problem is that the four most agreeable newcomers for the Mario series all fit those categories mostly.

1. Toad, Bowser Jr., Waluigi, and Paper Mario are all recognizable characters.

2. In this category, Toad has the most potential to being unique as he is the only possible newcomer who is not based on an already pre-existing character. Bowser Jr. has the paintbrush and possible the clown car, but everything after that resembles his father. Waluigi would probably be unique as a spin-off rep (whether one is needed or not is debatable) though he is still based on both Wario and Luigi. Finally Paper Mario has potential; however, there is still a strong chance that he might become a clone considering that he could perform all of Mario's moves (just look at Toon Link). Regardless, all four do have potential to being unique.

3. All four are capable of fighting and are able to be designed in a Smash game.

4. I'm sure that the four newcomers can all do well here too.

...What do we do know? We discuss how much more deserving each newcomer is over the other.

 

[Davidreamcatcha]

10characters

 

[---]

@Propeller Toad: Actually it can be argued that the other Mario reps also fit into those catagorys as well.


Anyway this is why I hate Mario reps discussions, I find there is more bias than even Pokemon or FE discussions.

 

[Propeller Toad]

@Davidreamcatcha

Can't be much worse than most of the Mario characters in Smash already as they too rely on items for a majority of their special moves. Remember, Mario characters lack depth in the Mario games so they rely on made up moves for their physical moves. Who would have imagined how Peach would have worked in Smash considering that she rarely fights in the Mario games.

@---

You do have a point as this is the difficult part of determing who is the next Mario newcomer. A lot of Mario characters fit the four categories. However, assuming with the information we have, the four previously stated characters most likely do have the best chances as they each have something going for them (well mostly Toad, Jr., and Paper Mario at least).

 

[Big-Cat]

Toad's entire moveset is pulling out items.

Waluigi has potential for a moveset to be made out of, as an original moveset was made for -CAPTAIN FALCON-.

Toad strictly depends on creativity. Berserker and I came up with a number of possibilities. The one thing we both greatly agreed on was the command run of his which is supposed to be reminiscent of El Fuerte and She-Hulk's run. Speaking of which, we also came up with a move just like She-Hulk command's grab.

You can create a moveset from pulling out items, but choosing not to do so will give you a rather unique character in the Smash series. We have yet to have a character that specializes in okizeme/tech-chasing.

On a separate note, here's the intro for UMvC3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UfjyyE3mNr0#!

Now THIS, is what I call an intro. It's essentially an epic diorama showing everyone fighting with no dialogue. Some characters aren't in, namely Akuma and Storm, and others are rather hidden. There's She-Hulk vs. Jill (funny how two of my favorites are fighting each other) and Ammy vs. Dormammu.

Nintendo should take some notes for when they're creating SSB4's intro.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So far, the only Mario characters who probably has little chance are pure one-offs. Which would be stuff like one-time bosses in Mario Party, or Queen Bee, or even Rosalina. Good thing a good majority of characters have been in most of the games, or a good chunk of them. Including spin-off characters.(hey, they're in a chunk of games)

 

[---]

@Propeller Toad: I still see some bias in your last post.


Anyway this is going to be pretty heated, and personally I'd like to stay out of it.

For as Shortie would say, I see nothing but a bunch of crybabies.


@Kuma: Yep that's an awesome trailer, thanks for pointing out the other characters, I was wondering where they were. lol

 

[Big-Cat]

I just thought of something. Let's say there's a demand for Skyward Sword Impa. Why not, as a compromise, lend some of her abilities to Sheik since she'd likely play in a similar style? I'm curious as to how that epic looking blue attack would be applied. Perhaps something like this:

This attack might not look like much, but I know very well what's it's capable of in the SF games and in real life. In the SF games, it pushes the opponent back with a lot of force (or chi if you will) and knockback. The EX version also does wall bounces.

 

[augustoflores]

wasn't the blue attack Ghirahim's attack and impa was defending?

 

[Big-Cat]

No, the blue attack came from Impa defending.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I will start to use pokemon sprites!

I had an idea and do not know if you'll like ... look:

The PT could use 6 PKMN!
would be simple, and in the way that I will put, will not be an exaggeration!

Might look like:

Senior team (Ivysaur [up arrow] selected):

By pressing the up arrow will appear Ivysaur (Grass + Poison Type)

By pressing the left arrow will appear Squirtle (Water Type)

By pressing the right arrow will appear Charizard (Fire + Flying Type)

Secondary Team (5th pokemon [down arrow] selected):

By pressing the down arrow will appear the 5th pokemon (Ground Type)

By pressing the left arrow will appear the 4th pokemon (Water + Ice Type)

By pressing the right arrow will appear the 6th Pokemon (Normal + Flying Type)

The only thing I would change is adding an Electric type. Pokemon Trainer already has Squirtle. I don't think he needs another Water Type. Other than that, I love the idea!

 

[Metal Overlord]

He was made for only two purposes. One to serve as Wario's partner and two serve as Luigi's rival.

Link?

10bulmas

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Waluigi has been a villain in two games.

Toad... has been playable as a main character in one.(The two Toads in New Super Mario Bros. Wii aren't the main Toad we refer to)

His only actual purpose... was to be Peach's aid. Which he does horribly. Overall, their roles are on par at best. Toad doesn't do anything more than Waluigi other than being in a Canon game. That's really the only thing that gives Toad an advantage over Waluigi, and Canon was not one of Sakurai's requirements. Plus, Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario still has a better chance anyway of getting in. He has better roles in the games, just as much importance, and is a villain too. Something SSB needs more of.

Keep in mind I never said ONCE said that I would choose Waluigi over Toad. But I know people would. Waluigi is well known enough to want to be played as. In fact, ever since Baby Daisy appeared in MKWii, Waluigi has been seen as not even being that bad anymore, starting to gain actual popularity. Whether or not he has a realistic chance in Sm4sh doesn't mean he has no chance at all.

Also, most of the well known Toads who do stuff... have different names. Toadette, Toadsworth, the various named Toads from Paper Mario. As I said before, the only time we're sure it's the main Toad is in SMB2. There's too many of him in all the other games, and the spin-offs could be any random Toad. "The TOAD" is only arguably at best in one game, which I just mentioned.

 

[Sonic Poke]

The only thing I would change is adding an Electric type. Pokemon Trainer already has Squirtle. I don't think he needs another Water Type. Other than that, I love the idea!

Thank you! Oh, and I just put Lapras because he is a type Ice! In addition to being very popular and a favorite! And do not put an electric type, because in smash already has Pikachu and other Pokemon Kanto electrical type can not enter! And Electrabuzz is weird!

It could also be a Fighting type, as a Hitmon!

Bug as Beedrill!

Dragon, as Dragonite (Oh yeah)

Stone, as Rhihorn!

Ghost, as Gengar!

Psychic like Alakazam!

Poison, as one of Nidos!

 

[Metal Overlord]

I don't know whether I should interrupt the conversation that you and Berserker were having; however, how much more information do you need to know that Waluigi does not have a strong chance for Smash? Just think about it and it will become obvious. Waluigi is a pure spin-off character who on the first hand was not even made by Nintendo! Instead he was made by the company Camelot (which created the Mario's Tennis series). Already with this point, we know that Waluigi is not even Nintendo's own creation!

Good point.

Finally, don't you think Waluigi would have served a bigger purpose by now? It's been over 11 years now since his creation, and he still has nothing to boast about. Mario DDR, I really doubt that would help him if anything. He has yet to make an appearance in a mainstream Mario game. Daisy at least had some form of apperance in SML (which could be considered as a mainstream) even while being short. Even Toad's partner Toadette who was introduced several years after Waluigi made an appearance in Paper Mario TTYD (a RPG) and a cameo in the main game Super Mario Galaxy since her debut. You know something is wrong when a newer spin-off character makes more main game appearances than an older spin-off character. Additionally, don't you think Waluigi would have made an appearance in a Wario game by now? Even that he has not done (disregarding that some caricature of the character that resembles him in one microgame). It appears that Nintendo sees Wario to being able to stand up on his own, and as a result he does not need Waluigi in his own games. Therefore, Waluigi finally serves as one major reason to existing. As Wario's partner in the spin-offs...Being Luigi's rival is occasional, but not the main reason.

Spin-off Mario games are mainstream, for one. Most of them sell on par with if not more than the "main" series of games.

They aren't main games of the series but they are mainstream because by their popularity. Poor choice of wording.

Also, him having no role in a "main Mario game"? Let me break this down to you:

1. You're probably thinking something along the lines of, "since the creators don't seem to think high of him as he's never had an appearance or some kind of role in a canon Mario game, then why should Sora feel he's important enough to be included in the roster". Well, I'm gonna say this to you...

Since when does story or canon matter in Mario games? This argument would only apply to story-centric series like Fire Emblem if they had spin-off characters. But the Mario series? They all pretty much have the same plot every time: Princess Peach gets kidnapped by Bowser, and Mario has to save her. That's it. Story has much less priority in Mario games. In Mario games, even the characters that have "roles" or "appearances" in the game are usually related to the gameplay itself. So if the developers don't even hold story or role high in their games, then why should Sora when choosing the newest Mario reps for Smash?

Waluigi probably is the most consisent pure-blooded spin-off character, making playable appearances in almost every spin-off game since his debut. So with that kind of consistency, don't you think he has some kind of importance to the series? And also, the general public don't see him as just a spin-off character. They see him as Wario's brother and Luigi's rival. He's not some random character like Koopa Troopa or Shy Guy. It would make sense to add him over characters like Bowser Jr. and whatnot because he fills in a missing gap as Wario's partner-in-crime.

Waluigi's biggest problem in terms of him making it in is his competition in Toad, IMO. Everything he has going for him, Toad has going for him in greater spades such as being a vet, having more playable appearances in Mario games recently. Because of Toad, he probably won't make it in. But being a spin-off cahracter? Nah, I don't think so.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...You know what's sad? Often the spin-off's plots are BETTER than the main games.(as in, Super Mario Bros., Sunshine, World, Galaxy, 64, Land, both Wario games, all Yoshi games that aren't puzzle, that stuff, that is, those I consider the main games) I mean, when Mario Party's 3 plot is more vibrant than the regular Mario games, that's saying something. Then again, Husdon is a bit better at plots than Nintendo, heh.

The thing is, while I think those games I listed(and possibly the RPG's, which are technically spin-offs) are the main CANON games, I don't think there's any true proof of that. Nintendo has never shown what's canon and what's not in the Mario series. About the only games that really probably aren't canon would be ...Mario Teaches Typing, maybe? Mario is Missing is arguable at best. Luigi's Mansion could easily be canon.

And I don't see how the Karts, Partys, etc, COULDN'T be canon. I don't believe they are, but I am not stating that as fact.

Really, the spin-offs are some of the MOST popular games we've seen. Why? Multiplayer. Nintendo loves the hell out of multiplayer. They sell for good reasons, and are popular for good reasons. A one-off character might be an Ensemble Darkhorse too.

Let's clarify something: I think Toad is truly more important to the Mario series. I just don't believe he's that big of a deal or that special as people are making him. The Toad RACE, yes, plays a huge a role. But Toad himself? Eh, he's only definitely in one game at best. Maybe the Mario Partys and Karts he could be the main Toad. But that's... it?(also, same with Golf/Tennis) As I said before, the only game he plays a prominent role in is SMB2. That is, the main Toad. All the others could be any of his race.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Thank you! Oh, and I just put Lapras because he is a type Ice! In addition to being very popular and a favorite! And do not put an electric type, because in smash already has Pikachu and other Pokemon Kanto electrical type can not enter! And Electrabuzz is weird!

It could also be a Fighting type, as a Hitmon!

Bug as Beedrill!

Dragon, as Dragonite (Oh yeah)

Stone, as Rhihorn!

Ghost, as Gengar!

Psychic like Alakazam!

Poison, as one of Nidos!

True. Pikachu is pretty much the only Electric type we need. Alakazam would be pretty fun though. I also thought of replacing the Normal-Flying Type since you already have Charizard. Gengar could work with that. Hmmm... Now I'd like to see or make a moveset for this... I'm really interested!

 

[Propeller Toad]

@---

I apologize if I am sounding biased. I'm just trying to say that these four probably do have the greatest chance. If you are thinking that I am biased towards Toad, perhaps I might be. However, what I am trying to say is to protect Toad's chances. More and more have been trying to put down Toad for many reasons so I am throwing in solid points about Toad's chances.

@HyperFalcon

Not to sound harsh, but which two games are you referring Waluigi to being the main antagonist? I remember Mario DDR, but the other?

[/U]

Toad... has been playable as a main character in one.(The two Toads in New Super Mario Bros. Wii aren't the main Toad we refer to)

Actually NSMB Wii still does count on Toad's side as he would be repping not only himself but as well as his species.

The two Toads playable in NSMB Wii are simply palette swaps and defineless Toads. If the Toads had personalities or defining features, then they would not be helping Toad's chances. However, their appearances are generic and with personalities identical to Toad himself. If you remember correctly, Toad was the chosen character from Miyamoto's suggestions (Peach, Toad, Wario, and Waluigi); however, I assume that they changed Toad's colourations in order to fit the four colour wheel (red, green, blue, and yellow). It's not like this has happened before (remembers the original SMB2 where Toad's sprite was blue in colour). Hence why we got Toad in with a different colour. Somewhere along the line, they added a second Toad for unknown reasons. Toads were added because Toad was requested, and in the end we got Toad (just in a different colouration in order to fit the game).

In the japanese interviews, Miyamoto and the other developers refer to the playable characters as Mario, Luigi, and Kinopio (japanese name for Toad). They see the Toads as the same, and hence why Toad reps his entire species in the spin-offs as well. Remember the recent Mario Sports Mix? Toad had alternate colourations including Blue Toad and Yellow Toad while The Toad was the default one. The same would be applied in Smash. Look at the other generic characters. Yoshi is rarely referred to as a character in Smash and is kept being called a species in his trophy descriptions. Additionally, there are many event matches surrounding the coloured Yoshis. Even Yoshi's final smash is based off Blue Yoshi's ability in Super Mario World. Do you think Yoshi would have made it into Smash if he was not representing his species? The Yoshi does not even make an appearance in the Yoshi games except for that cameo of him in YIDS (the green Yoshi in the games is referred to as a generic Yoshi). It is his species that are doing the work. THE Yoshi gets the credit of repping them as this Yoshi is the most recognizable image of the Yoshi species. Same can apply to Toad and his species.

Toad is a generic character; however, he is the most recognizable member of his species. Blue Toad and Yellow Toad would be repped with Toad and be apart of his alternate colourations if he made it into Smash 4. Toadsworth and Toadette are defined Toad characters, so they could not be standardized by Toad; however, the coloured Toads are easily repped by this one Toad (like they have always been in the Mario spin-offs).

Anyways, if we are going along the lines of seeing the spin-offs as being equal to the mainstream Super Mario Bros. series, I don't mind it. It helps Toad's chances as well as he is one of the standard spin-off characters as well. Spin-offs may sell well; however, they are not the series that helped tell the tale of Mario's platforming adventures of the Mushroom Kingdom. That is the main appeal of the Mario series and why the four main Mario characters we already have in Smash are in it. In terms of mainstream appearances, it is basically Toad vs. Jr. In terms of the spin-offs, Waluigi is added into competition. Anyways, that is my part...

@Metal Overlord

I admit that you do have a point. Waluigi does have a good reason of being mentioned. However, the problem is that his most perfect fit would be in the Wario series characters. He did not make a Wario series appearance yet. Additionally, it would be odd to see him alongside the main four Mario characters. Toad on the other hand would fit better, has more notability, and is more iconic than Waluigi is to the overall Nintendo company. I just am not sure if Waluigi has enough notability though to getting in before someone such as Toad [who is a frequent sight in spin-offs (and often one of the major characters), playable in mainstream games, one of the highly merchandised characters in the Mario series, and as well as having his own game].

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Sonic Poke: IMO, the types added to PT should be ones unused so far in Smash. Ground, Rock, Dragon, Ghost, Dark. I think all the other types have been repped as in, the Pokemon ARE of that type. Did I miss anything?

 

[---]

@---

Sorry if I am sounding biased. I'm just trying to say that these four probably do have the greatest chance. If you are thinking that I am biased towards Toad, perhaps I might be. However, what I am trying to say is to protect Toad's chances. More and more have been trying to put down Toad for many reasons so I am throwing in solid points about Toad's chances.

That's okay, I understand, we all can be a bit biased every once in a while.

Anyway I do agree on Toad maybe being the front runner for a Mario slot. But overall I do think it could go either way, so I don't think anyone should ignor any of the other Mario reps just yet, even Waluigi, when they're all IMO, very close in competition.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi has been a villain in two games.

Toad... has been playable as a main character in one.(The two Toads in New Super Mario Bros. Wii aren't the main Toad we refer to)

His only actual purpose... was to be Peach's aid. Which he does horribly. Overall, their roles are on par at best. Toad doesn't do anything more than Waluigi other than being in a Canon game. That's really the only thing that gives Toad an advantage over Waluigi, and Canon was not one of Sakurai's requirements. Plus, Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario still has a better chance anyway of getting in. He has better roles in the games, just as much importance, and is a villain too. Something SSB needs more of.

Keep in mind I never said ONCE said that I would choose Waluigi over Toad. But I know people would. Waluigi is well known enough to want to be played as. In fact, ever since Baby Daisy appeared in MKWii, Waluigi has been seen as not even being that bad anymore, starting to gain actual popularity. Whether or not he has a realistic chance in Sm4sh doesn't mean he has no chance at all.

Also, most of the well known Toads who do stuff... have different names. Toadette, Toadsworth, the various named Toads from Paper Mario. As I said before, the only time we're sure it's the main Toad is in SMB2. There's too many of him in all the other games, and the spin-offs could be any random Toad. "The TOAD" is only arguably at best in one game, which I just mentioned.

We all know what Toad (the one from SMB2) looks like.

You mind pointing out which one is Toad (the one from SMB2) out of any of these pictures?

So, in Melee and Peach when Peach uses Toad as a shield, how can we tell if this Toad is the Toad from SMB2 or a random Toad who happens to looks like the Toad from SMB2? I mean, they all look alike! So, it wouldn't be weird to have a playable Toad while Peach still uses a Toad as a shield in SSB4! As long as the playable Toad is wearing a blue vest and a red-spotted mushroom hat as his default colors, people wouldn't care if the playable Toad is the same Toad from SMB2 or the same Toad from Wario's Woods or the same Toad from Mario Kart games or the first Toad you rescued in SMB1 or a random Toad from Toad Town.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@---

Sorry if I am sounding biased. I'm just trying to say that these four probably do have the greatest chance. If you are thinking that I am biased towards Toad, perhaps I might be. However, what I am trying to say is to protect Toad's chances. More and more have been trying to put down Toad for many reasons so I am throwing in solid points about Toad's chances.

@HyperFalcon

Not to sound harsh, but which two games are you referring Waluigi to being the main antagonist? I remember Mario DDR, but the other?

[/U]

Actually NSMB Wii still does count on Toad's side as he would be repping not only himself but as well as his species.

The two Toads playable in NSMB Wii are simply palette swaps and defineless Toads. If you remember correctly, Toad was the chosen character from Miyamoto's suggestions (Peach, Toad, Wario, and Waluigi); however, I assume that they changed Toad's colourations in order to fit the four colour wheel (red, green, blue, and yellow). It's not like this has happened before (remembers the original SMB2 where Toad's sprite was blue in colour). Hence why we got Toad in with a different colour. Somewhere along the line, they added a second Toad for unknown reasons. Toads were added because Toad was requested, and in the end we got Toad (just in a different colouration in order to fit the game).

In the japanese interviews, Miyamoto and the other developers refer to the playable characters as Mario, Luigi, and Kinopio (japanese name for Toad). They see the Toads as the same, and hence why Toad reps his entire species in the spin-offs as well. Remember the recent Mario Sports Mix? Toad had alternate colourations including Blue Toad and Yellow Toad while The Toad was the default one. The same would be applied in Smash. Look at the other generic characters. Yoshi is rarely referred to as a character in Smash and is kept being called a species in his trophy descriptions. Additionally, there are many event matches surrounding the coloured Yoshis. Even Yoshi's final smash is based off Blue Yoshi's ability in Super Mario World. Do you think Yoshi would have made it into Smash if he was not representing his species? The Yoshi does not even make an appearance in the Yoshi games except for that cameo of him in YIDS (the green Yoshi in the games is referred to as a generic Yoshi). It is his species that are doing the work. THE Yoshi gets the credit of repping them as this Yoshi is the most recognizable image of the Yoshi species. Same can apply to Toad and his species.

Toad is a generic character; however, he is the most recognizable member of his species. Blue Toad and Yellow Toad would be repped with Toad and be apart of his alternate colourations if he made it into Smash 4. Toadsworth and Toadette are defined Toad characters, so they could not be standardized by Toad; however, the coloured Toads are easily repped by this one Toad (like they have always been in the Mario spin-offs).

Anyways, if we are going along the lines of seeing the spin-offs as being equal to the mainstream Super Mario Bros. series, I don't mind it. It helps Toad's chances as well as he is one of the standard spin-off characters as well. Spin-offs may sell well; however, they are not the series that helped tell the tale of Mario's platforming adventures of the Mushroom Kingdom. That is the main appeal of the Mario series and why the four main Mario characters we already have in Smash are in it. In terms of mainstream appearances, it is basically Toad vs. Jr. In terms of the spin-offs, Waluigi is added into competition. Anyways, that is my part...

So basically, if Toad wasn't playable in NSMBWii, Wario and Waluigi would have? That would have made Waluigi's first main game appearances. Oh the irony.

On that list of competition for Toad, I almost yelled, "YOU FORGOT PAPER MARIO!", but then I remembered that I consider Paper Mario its own franchise, and therefore would not be a Mario rep.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only four that seem to have any chance are Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario, Toad, and Waluigi. They're the most well known of the pure Mario characters. I'd add them in the order listed myself.

@arcanedik: You've shown only one game that might also be the main Toad, being Mario Kart. The rest have multiple Toads, thus, there's now way to tell them apart. Try again. BTW, the second there's more than one of Toad, the second we can't tell which one was the true one that we first played as.

Only in games where there's ONE Toad could we call that the main Toad. My point completely stands that the main Toad isn't definable in all but a few games/series.