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Sure I can. That one line kinda defeats the whole purpose of what you're trying to get at as far as Smash is concerned.
Melee's success was never predicated on the fact that you could wavedash. Melee was a success because the core gameplay was fun and engaging. You didn't have to learn wavedashing to just enjoy the game; you could just pick it up and play. Brawl's success could be held in a similar light.
Look at their success, we can notice some things. First, Brawl outsold Melee, so Brawl was more successful. Second was that, of all three games, Melee was the weakest seller in Japan. Line them up, and you can see something was wrong with Melee. Something was right, but something may have also been wrong.
What I've always said is that there was something Sakurai saw that others didn't (and I wish I still had Sakurai's quotes). Basically, Melee wasn't as accessible as it could be, and Sakurai changed it in Brawl, namely the speed, removing things that gave players a huge advantage and making it more forgiving. Melee was successful, but Brawl was more so and got back to what Smash Brother was about.
Why aren't you picking at Brawl's character-specific or engine-specific ATs? There are plenty, and they make a big difference in separating the "weak" players from the "strong" ones. Go to any Wi-Fi thread here on the forums and ask kids what a DACUS is. You'd be surprised at how many people would know and use it, SmashChu.
What I've always said is that there was something Sakurai saw that others didn't (and I wish I still had Sakurai's quotes). Basically, Melee wasn't as accessible as it could be, and Sakurai changed it in Brawl, namely the speed, removing things that gave players a huge advantage and making it more forgiving. Melee was successful, but Brawl was more so and got back to what Smash Brother was about.
Brawl to Wii ratio and Melee to GC ratio, more copies of Melee were bought for every gamecube, than Brawl was for every Wii. Just something to think about.
If Melee wasn't accessible, then the players have never picked up a real fighting game in their life. All games are accessible, just not easy to be AWESOME AT.
You said "Easy to learn, hard to master" for Brawl right? Same goes for Melee, except BOTH fanbases (competitive and casual) are happy with Melee. Anyone who says Melee is too hard, is boarderline ********. End of story.
I'm pretty sure Sonic was the only real one. Although Kratos was wanted in SCIV according to the TVTropes wiki, and got into Broken Destiny, but I can't confirm that.
Anyway, was Muddy Mole a character from Super Mario Bros. series? If soooooo... I'd rather have DHD myself. Only because I'd rather have a retro character from a different series. I admit, Muddy Mole has a better moveset choice, but DHD is pretty damn iconic in the first place.
Brawl to Wii ratio and Melee to GC ratio, more copies of Melee were bought for every gamecube, than Brawl was for every Wii. Just something to think about.
If Melee wasn't accessible, then the players have never picked up a real fighting game in their life. All games are accessible, just not easy to be AWESOME AT.
You said "Easy to learn, hard to master" for Brawl right? Same goes for Melee, except BOTH fanbases (competitive and casual) are happy with Melee. Anyone who says Melee is too hard, is boarderline ********. End of story.
Sorry, but I never heard of him. Then again, almost any NES user knows of DHD. I mean, he was pretty well known due to being packaged with the Mario Bros. themselves. Soooo... I'd say he's pretty iconic. Albeit, the guy you love to hate, but still.(at the very least, he needs to be a regular Trophy or an Assist Trophy)
Sure. Here's everything about Muddy in Smash. Basically, here it is. Everything I have for him.
Basically, he comes from a Miyamoto made puzzle game for the Game Boy in 1996 called Mole Mania. He'd be quite retro, but unique as well, as he solved puzzles both above and underground. He had to save his kids and wife from the evil farmer Jinbe by traversing the continent through seven worlds filled with puzzles, enemies and bosses. I fully support him as my retro choice for Smash, and encourage others to give him consideration.
Muddy Mole
A: Right Claw Swipe 2%
AA: Left Claw Swipe 3%
AAA: Alternating claw barrage. 2% per hit
A Side: Muddy does a small punch. Can be performed in quick succession. 8%
A Up: Muddy holds his hands up like a goal post and jumps up. 12%
A Down: Muddy gets low and kicks at the opponent’s feet. 14%
Dash A: Muddy does a leaping somersault forward. 13%
Smash Side: Muddy does a strong headbutt. 18%
Smash Up: Muddy spins upward corkscrewing his claws.22%
Smash Down: Muddy spins low to the ground kicking up a small wave of dirt to both of his sides. 20%
Air A: Muddy does a small midair cartwheel for weak damage. 5%
Forward Air A: Muddy slaps the foe weakly in midair. 4%
Backward Air A: Muddy roundhouse kicks in midair. 7%
Up Air A: Muddy sweeps his claws in an arc. 4%
Down Air A: Muddy kicks the opponent down with both feet. Meteor-Smash. 9%
Grab and Pummel: Muddy grabs the foe and knees them in the torso. 4%
Forward Throw: Muddy kicks the foe ahead of him. 10%
Back Throw: Muddy spins the opponent and throws them back, similar to Mario. 8%
Up Throw: Muddy digs under the foe and hits them with a tack from underneath, sending them upward. 15%
Down Throw: Muddy slams his foe into the ground, kicking up some dirt in the process. 12%
His Neutral B would be the iron ball. Press B once, and it spawns, and stays on the ground in front of you. You can keep it there, and it will act as an unbreakable wall. However, if you press B again when you are close to the ball, you can throw it at your opponent! It will be very slow and not very powerful at first, but if you hold B, Muddy will charge up the throw, increasing the speed, distance, and damage. However, if the opponent hits you during start up, you will drop the ball. The ball will eventually disappear if A.) Too much time passes without you throwing it, or B.) You hit the opponent. Only one Ball can be present at a time per Muddy Mole. It does 15% when pushed forward with no charge, 22% when charged. Going backwards, it does 20% uncharged, and 30% when charged.
His Side B will be the Bomb Roll. This one was a bit of a stretch, seeing as Muddy never actually did this. However, it is creative liberty, I guess. Muddy pulls out a bomb that he uses in his game, and hops on top of it. He then speeds forward on the bomb to ram opponents. It then explodes. Can be a decent horizontal recovery. 15%
His Up B would be the cabbage jump. After Muddy Mole defeats a boss in his games, he saves one of his children, who pop out of a giant cabbage that falls from the sky, and leap up with a corkscrew-like jump. Muddy would essentially do the same. A giant cabbage would surround him, and he'd pop out using a Wario-like Corkscrew. If used in Midair, the cabbage will fall to the ground, potentially doing damage, and possibly a meteor-smash. When used on land, it disappears after use. I guess you can call it a mix between Wario's and Sonic's. 16% with the corkscrew, 10% if the cabbage hits you.
Muddy Mole's Down B would be Burrow. Going underground was key in Muddy Mole's adventures, so naturally Smash should reflect that. He would dig a hole, and go underground. If used on a passable platform, he'd fall through it. While underground, he can move around very fast, but at the expense of not being able to see where he is. By releasing B, he will pop out of the hole, causing minimal damage. However, you only have a three second time frame to stay underground, otherwise you are forcefully removed from the dirt. This would make up for Muddy's lackluster aerial game.
Finally, his Final Smash would be Sundes. Another forum user gave me this idea. Sundes was a sun-based boss in Mole Mania, as the ruler of Level 2. One of his attacks involves him going supernova, so Muddy needed to get out of the way to survive by going underground. Once Muddy has the Smash Ball, he'll adjust his Sunglasses and go underground. Sundes would then appear, and go Supernova, sending a vast fiery wave across the stage. If hit, the opponent will take major damage (50%) and good knockback. It can, however, be avoided by some characters with high or multiple jumps. Muddy will the resurface and continue fighting.
Taunts: Up: He adjusts his sunglasses with a shine and smiles. (With the clichéd *ding* sound of course)
Down: He digs a small hole and pulls out a small cabbage. He proceeds to eat it.
Side: He holds out his paw and extends his claws.
Costumes: Red: Normal color
Blue: Blue neckerchief
Green: Green Neckerchief
Others: Pink, yellow, and black neckerchiefs.
Kirby Hat: Kirby dons a pair of shades and a handkerchief.
Codec Conversation: Snake: Colonel, who's the mole wearing sunglasses?
Colonel: That's Muddy Mole, Snake.
Snake: Never heard of him. He's probably no big threat.
Colonel: Be careful, Snake, Muddy here can do something that no one else here can do. He'll dig right beneath you and hit you from the other side.
Snake: That's pretty cheap, wouldn't you say?
Colonel: Coming from the man who's fighting a mole, while using a ton of explosives...just make sure to watch out, Snake.
Snake: What else is there to watch for?
Colonel: Besides digging, Muddy can also launch giant iron balls. And bombs, too.
Snake: ...Ugh.
Playstyle: Basically, Muddy Mole is your trap user to the extreme. Block off certain spots with the Iron Ball, dig underneath it, and hit the foes on the other side is a pretty good tactic. If time is running out on it, throw it for good damage. Being a mole, Muddy is best on the ground, of course. Many of his smashes and throws are powerful. That being said, if you’re playing Muddy in the air for any reason other than recovery, you’re using him wrong. Muddy is just plain bad in the air. Low fall speed, bad aerials, and semi-lightweight an aerial fighter does not make. All in all, Muddy is an interesting character to play as, and will leave the opponents guessing as to which move he’ll use next.
Basically, it is a simple stage with walk off edges. Overall, the stage would showcase the Wii U's graphical capabilities, as the foliage, trees, and rolling hills in the background would be in an high definition autumnal setting. Based on my poorly shown layout, the top row of underscores are the basic ground of the stage. However, if you break the plots of tilled land (marked as ---s) then an underground path opens up, connecting the two plots.
Jinbe (Marked as J) realizes what happened after a period of time, and comes to the foreground to fix the plots. If you get in his way, you get minor damage from his hoe.
Cabbages, marked as "u", can be hit with a smash attack to uproot them. If you push them underground, they explode, leaving behind a healing item. This is a reference to Mole Mania's gameplay. This angers Jinbe, who comes to the foreground and chases whoever hurt the cabbage with his hoe. If he hits you, you take 20% damage and a bit of knockback. Jinbe can be defeated pretty easily, however. When defeated, he angrily returns to the background and starts to tend to his other crops in the background.
Eh, to each his own. I personally think Lip is a bit dry. That, and as far as puzzle game reps go, Muddy's at the very least international, if that even matters at this point. Also, what can Lip do, as I have no knowledge of her game whatsoever.
[COLLAPSE="Moveset"]I'm aware that this isn't a likely choice but hey... I'm doing this for fun
Newcomer Keldeo
Colt Pokemon
Keldeo the legendary Colt Pokemon joins the fray! By blasting water from its hooves, it can glide across water. It excels at using leg moves while battling.
Attributes: Due to it's scrawny build Keldeo is a lightweight character, it would be as light as Sheik(the seventh lightest character in Brawl.) He would be around Yoshi's size and would have very good ground speed(just a little faster than Diddy Kong.) He would have pretty good air game he'd be able to flutter in tthe air for a little bit by propelling spurts of water from his hooves. He would not be able to wall jump or wall cling but he would be able to crawl.
Playstyle: Keldeo would be rather awkward in the air like a baby horse, but he would be able to dominate while on the ground due to having a great ground game. On the ground most of his moves would be rather fast, while in the air they'd be rather fast as well although awkward. He'd have decent combo potential while in the air.
Entrance: A torrent of water appears. And Keldeo leaps out elegantly with his mane blowing in the wind.
A - Kicks at the opponent with his right hoof. AA - Kicks at the opponent with his left hoof. AAA - Kicks at the opponent and turns his back to the opponent spraying the opponent with water from his two back hooves. Dash - Sprints towards the opponent and lunges forward stabbing them with his horn.
F-Tilt - Leans forward and headbutts the opponent. U-Tilt - Springs upward and slams into the opponent. D-Tilt - Stomps down sending a small wave of water forward.
F- Smash: His horn glows yellow he then swipes it forward slashing the opponent. Up Smash: Points his head upward and charges a small blue orb in his mouth. He then fires a blast of water upward at the opponent. Down Smash: Slams his front hooves on the ground sending a large wave of water towards the opponent.
N- Air: Spins around in the air and slaps the opponent with his tail. F-Air: Fires bubbles at the opponent.(Bubblebeam) D-Air: Stomps down repeatedly on the opponent similar to Peach's D-Air. B-Air: Sends a gush of water at the opponent with his back hooves. U-Air: Pokes his head upward and stabs the opponent with his horn.
Pummel - Stands on his back legs and puts his front two hooves on the opponent clinging on them. He then headbutts the opponent. Forward Throw - Pushes the opponent forward and then stabs them with his horn. Up Throw - Tosses his opponent up and sends a jet of water upward at them. Down Throw - Sets the opponent down and stomps down violently on them. Back Throw - Sends his opponent behind them and kicks them with his back legs.
Special - (Sacred Sword) - When using this move Keldeo's horn glows gold and grows relatively longer. He then swipes at the opponent a few times before stabbing them. Keldeo swipes at the opponent three times before finally stabbing at the opponent. The final stab can be a kill move on high percentages. Side Special - (Bubblebeam) - When using this move Keldeo fires a a few bubbles at the opponent. When used Keldeo fires small bubbles out of his mouth at a rapid pace almost like the SuperScope. However when charged up Keldeo will fire one large slow moving bubble at the opponent that will pop upon contact making the opponent dizzy. The large bubble will travel forward for about 5 seconds. Down Special - (Subsitute) - - When using this move Keldeo disappears in a puff of smoke leaving a stiff doll version of itself in its place. This doll is able to take a fair amount of hits until it disappears and the actual Keldeo reappears. Once it does Keldeo will reappear letting out a puff of smoke that will knock the opponent back it will not damage them however. Up Special - (Aqua Jet) - When using this move Keldeo covers himself in a veil of water. He then launches himself upward at an intense speed damaging anyone in his way. You are able to choose which direction you want to launch yourself like Lucario's Extremespeed.
Final Smash - Rain Dance: The screen zooms in on Keldeo who launches a blue orb into the sky. The sky then becomes engulfied in dark clouds and it begins to pour down rain which covers the entire level. Much like the rain on Distant Planet the opponents will be pushed around and slip on the heavy water. Keldeo however will not be effected by this and will move faster by propelling jets of water from his hooves, leaving most of his opponents at his mercy.(Quite a terrifying Final Smash if you really think about it.)
Taunts
Up: Closes its eyes and looks upward as the wind blows its mane.
Side: Kicks forward playfully and looks at the screen.
Down: Sprays a jet of water upwards which hits him in the face.
Victory Pose
Swings the sword on his head around and looks up pridefully.
Rides up on a wave and jumps off and looks at the screen with a smug smile.
Stretches itself out and lies down to take a nap.
Losing Pose
Looks down and shakes its head in disbelief. [/COLLAPSE]
Basically, she's already a Magician, which gives tons of possibilities right there. While I don't know many of her best move choices, it's not very hard to come up with one. She could also drop blocks on her enemies with magic, use magic blasts. It's not too hard to think of one.
His games aren't awesome right now, but they're out there.
@Ryu H. Bottom line, is NOT going to have the fan demand needed to get in like SE and Capcom characters would. Just, bottom line. He also isn't as connected to Smash like Sega and Konami.
It looks pretty cool, Opelucid. Contrary to the beliefs of many, I actually wouldn't mind if we got Keldeo in Smash. My only suggestion is to somehow incorporate Keldeo's signature move: Secret Sword. In addition to Sacred Sword, Keldeo learns this if brought to the Moor of Iccirus. Really like the Final Smash.
@Hyper Falcon I was actually unaware that she was a magician. Huh, learn something new everyday...
@Oasis: Game Boy is very retro. For a handheld, anyway. Plus, it's like, what, 3 generations old already? Also, is that your roster by any chance?
Oh, I know he WOULD be considered retro, but it's just funny since he's up there with some of the newer characters. I guess that's MOSTLY my roster, but there are a few iffy choices that I would probably take down.
Well, she has a Magic Wand... technically. I really haven't played much, but she could done as one. I might be off, but her Lip's Stick would easily allow magic. And I think she's First or Second Party, so a true magic user without taking a Third Party slot is a good idea, IMO.
I remember the days of awaiting Brawl on the official Nintendo forums, and this is bringing back so many memories :3.
My dream roster (by which I mean, I'm not saying this is the most realistic roster) would return Mewtwo and Roy (Luigi-fied), add Paper Mario and Simon Belmont. Those are things I can think of at the top of my head.
And since "retro" seems to be the flair nowadays in new games (Sonic Generations, Retro tracks in Mario Kart) I think returning (some) stages from all 3 previous games would make my life.
Okay, so... This is off-topic, but I thought I should get this out in the open.
I thought of Starfy's Codec call, and it's actually kinda funny.
Snake: Colonel! What's this little star kid doing running around on a battlefield?!
Colonel: Snake, that's Starfy. He's the prince of a floating kingdom called Pufftop.
Snake: Pufftop? So he's a weakling, then?
Colonel: Don't underestimate him, Snake. He may look small and harmless, but inside that tiny body, he's got enough power to throw the moon!
Snake: The moon? He's really that strong?
Colonel: Yes, Snake, and he can turn into even more powerful monsters with the help of his friends.
Snake: Hmmm... I guess it's true what they say. Appearances can be deceiving.
Colonel: Right, Snake. Now go show him who's boss.
I'm a Sora fanboy to death, but the actual chances of him getting in seems unrealistic, esp when he goes up against classic characters like Megaman, Ryu, Simon Belmont, etc.
@Elvish Yeah very slim.
@HF I'm pretty certain he is owned by square.
Not that I think he has any real shot, but I was thinking if he got in, after the use of his final smash, he could turn into Roxas, and the only way to turn back would to be with Roxas' final smash. Like Samus/Zss
@Yani: To be fair, Kingdom Hearts is heavily connected to Disney as well. Many Stickers and Trophies would be related, and I'm not sure it's very easy to get Disney to agree to that. I'm pretty they're kind of stingy about those things.
Regardless of who owns Sora, is it really worth the money? Especially when there's Geno(or Mallow), Dragon Quest, and Final Fantasy characters all primed and ready.
Here's hoping for FFVII through IX to get a Wii remake so we could actually see those characters. Vivi, Squall, both interesting characters. Joking aside, because I know that won't happen, there's a ton of FF characters available.
Also, if we're going beyond obscure, there's Flying Dragon characters like Ryuhi.
