New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Self handicaps doesn't seem like a very intelligent thing to do

Not exactly true. Challenging yourself allows you to think of strategies beyond overleveling and aggro.

How do you think you get better at stuff? Practice. And practicing under harder conditions improves yourself greater than being overpowered.

Likewise, what's the fun of a game when there's no challenge? Then again, I guess not everybody finds challenging stuff fun.

If you only practice against easy targets, you can't actually get much better. Of course, this doesn't fully translate to all video games. But is a key note when it comes to practicing stuff.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I find customizing characters to find the perfect combination of stats, abilities and team combinations to be fun

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I find customizing characters to find the perfect combination of stats, abilities and team combinations to be fun

I'm going to disagree. I don't really like having perfect characters. I'm a sucker for challenges. Not to say I don't like overpowering myself sometimes. I like both.

But opinions differ. Either way, not every game is designed that way. Challenges are perfectly normal gameplay-wise, heh.

But moving on, though. I never got an answer about Chrome's weapon.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Private Investigator: Wuss.


@Fire Emblem stuff: Surprised CB didn't mention, but in the Melee poll, the option for "anyone from Fire Emblem" was tied for 12th with Pokemon Trainer and Mr. Saturn at 18 votes. The next highest was Ogma at 8 votes, and the highest main character was Celice at 4. Aside from Marth, the series didn't have any definite stand-outs despite the demand for more characters.

FE was in a particularly unique scenario in which whatever Sakurai decided would define how fans view this series. Now, if Sakurai were to hold another poll (or better yet, ask IS for who stands out amongst fans), I guarantee you the results would be Marth, Roy, and Ike at the top, everyone else much lower.

I had some thoughtful analogy prepared about how bad of an idea it'd be to add Chrome/Krom/Kommander Kool over either Ike or Roy, but the phone rang and I forgot how it went. Oh well, you kids probably get it.

 

[Big-Cat]

So as you guys know, I keep a close on eye on any news surrounding Street Fighter X Tekken, and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 to an extent (more so now that PW has been shown).

If you haven't been paying attention, it looks like Capcom may have found the happy medium for casual and hardcore players. The hardcore have an indepth system, made possibly more indepth with this mysterious Gem system (where the game is balanced around the use of these), while the casuals have all these insane party modes and gimmicks like Pandora that will keep them happy.

Smash is already very close to this. The problem right now is that Smash went gimmicky with Brawl and it lacks in substance compared to its predecessors when you take those gimmicks away. With this Gem system in the works, I'm quite curious what this could mean for possibly the 3DS version. Could we be looking at something like gems in the 3DS version?

 

[y.toonlink]

Staying underleveled can be pretty fun, but grinding is too, esp in ROMs with turbo.
I think being handicapped in turn based RPGs would get a little boring tho, even if you're going to rely on potions/healing, it just turns out to be more repetitive than grinding.

So how about that Arwing for Falco's FS for SSB4

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, in competitive RPG's my time taken maxed out characters could stand up against the best opponent. Let's see your underleveled handicapped characters do the same

I view every RPG as a competitive one, even if it doesn't have multiplayer mode

 

[y.toonlink]

How are rpg's competitive when everyone basically does the same thing?

Are Pandora and X Factor really that crappy to you guys? I really thought X Factor brought something nice into play that wasn't totally OP/imbalanced like Final Smashes.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Kuma: Sounds like Monster Hunter, I like. Since everyone expects sticker mode to be part of SSB4's customization dealie, I'd expect something somewhat similar in Smash. The whole thing really boils down to how potent/flexible/balanced it is anyway, so here's hoping it turns out good.

 

[Big-Cat]

That reminds me. As much as stickers are a cool concept, I don't think they work out well in the long run. Even though I'm curious and excited about the Gem System in SFxTK, I'd rather a customization system be more like UMvC3's Heroes vs. Heralds mode where balance is just tossed out and you use cards, with various characters on different cards, to give your characters different abilities.

Considering that Brawl was a balancing disaster, I think it'd be for the best to just balance the game in regards to the characters and not additional systems attached.

 

[---]

@Psycho - FE2 and 8 have level grinding. For the rest of the series just use the arena.


As for the rest of the FE stuff, yeah I'd be o.k. if we got Roy back and just that, and since it's Sakurai who does the choosing I guess fans will be the deciding factor. I do hope that Sakurai ops for someone outside of the standard sword using stereotype, however, as FE is much more then that, and FE can handle 4 slots.

Although now that I remember that Melee poll, I guess there is some hope. Except for Ogma, seeing as his fighting style is already represented by Ike. As for who that could be, I have a few ideas, but it's all up in the air for now.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Can't imagine anyone ever prioritizing any custom mode over the regular, but that's just me!

Worst case scenario, no one uses it. Best case scenario is the various tweaks allow for a more varied game just through sheer number of options available.


edit @Clint: The funny thing about sword dudes is that it's exactly what Fire Emblem main characters are all about. It's like when people complain about Toon Link not using the Deku Leaf or whatever else despite the fact that it's still Link, his abilities in his games are still typical Link moves.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

How are rpg's competitive when everyone basically does the same thing?

Are Pandora and X Factor really that crappy to you guys? I really thought X Factor brought something nice into play that wasn't totally OP/imbalanced like Final Smashes.

Pokemon.

Spoiler

10char

 

[Metal Overlord]

As much as stickers are a cool concept, I don't think they work out well in the long run.

Exactly what do you see in stickers? I don't see the potential, so enlighten me, please.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, the Stickers were two-fold. Equipment/Stat increases and a fun collector's item. Outside of a few of them, they're all easy to collect overall. Only annoyance is the pointless repeats.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd prefer something closer to the old Dragon Ball Z fighting game than stickers.

Abilities and stat upgrades costing a certain amount of slots rather than being balance by size and the person that can organize them better has the best stats

 

[y.toonlink]

Pokemon.

Spoiler

10char

I meant the ones where you said had no multiplayer. I know about EV's but never got into them.

Speaking of Toon Link, I'm working on a moveset with typical Link moves not already used rather than a Wind Waker exclusive one

 

[Big-Cat]

Exactly what do you see in stickers? I don't see the potential, so enlighten me, please.

Customizing stats. We had this to a degree in the SSE, but that's about it. The main problem I always had was that you were limited by the size of the stickers instead of some given slot points. I'd prefer something akin to blackjack where the total number of points for the stickers/cards/toothpicks must be some value.

@Toise
What do you think about the customizing mode being the regular mode, like how SFxTK is looking to be?

Funny thing is, the Gem System could very well be a custom groove/ism, but we know so little about it beyond a small overview.

@y.toonlink
X-Factor is, too some degree, OP, but it varies from character to character. Dark Phoenix lvl 3 X-Factor is stupid. Pandora is pretty much Awesome, but Impractical.

 

[Oasis_S]

Speaking of Toon Link, I'm working on a moveset with typical Link moves not already used rather than a Wind Waker exclusive one

Be sure to make his dash attack the ROLL. I was so disappointed when they didn't at least give him that. I think it would be very fitting for him. Also, he should have been able to crawl. >8O

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Psycho: I remember that.

But, for everyone else, if there were customizable abilities, do you think there should be a shop to buy all the upgrades? Or should they all just be unlocked through regular gameplay (my preferred choice)?

Customizing stats. We had this to a degree in the SSE, but that's about it. The main problem I always had was that you were limited by the size of the stickers instead of some given slot points. I'd prefer something akin to blackjack where the total number of points for the stickers/cards/toothpicks must be some value.

Sounds much better than some of the other ideas I've heard before.

 

[---]

edit @Clint: The funny thing about sword dudes is that it's exactly what Fire Emblem main characters are all about. It's like when people complain about Toon Link not using the Deku Leaf or whatever else despite the fact that it's still Link, his abilities in his games are still typical Link moves.

I know and that's why common sense tells me not to get my hopes up. I'm only expecting Roy to return as a semi-clone.

Also I bought Castlevaina 4 the other day. Good stuff. So far I've only played it for about a half hour and it's already my favorite in the series.


As for customization, I have no idea on how they might tackle it other then expanding Stickers to become like the H&H mode in UMvC. But either way being a purest I think I'll stick to the basics no matter what they do.

 

[y.toonlink]

@Kumo
Pheonix is a walking OP character so naturally X Factor with her is OP. Otherwise, if both players save their X Factors to level 3 it turns out to be a little fun twist towards the end of the game, which usually happens when I play good games.

@Oasis
That's actually what I have down lol
Here's a little preview of what I have in mind:
Toon Link
- Sword Beam/Spin Attack/Volley Standard B
- Roll Dash Attack
- Pegasus Dash FSmash
- Fire Dair: Meteor
- Y.Link FTilt: Sweet Spot Tip
- Back Slice Bair
- Helm Splitter Fair
- Shovel animation DTilt: Meteor

 

[SmashChu]

That reminds me. As much as stickers are a cool concept, I don't think they work out well in the long run. Even though I'm curious and excited about the Gem System in SFxTK, I'd rather a customization system be more like UMvC3's Heroes vs. Heralds mode where balance is just tossed out and you use cards, with various characters on different cards, to give your characters different abilities.

MvC3's system is nice actually. It's one of the few good things I can say about the game. I think what works for it is that they are not just stat upgrades but larger and more unique things. Invisibility and projectile invincibility are nice.

Considering that Brawl was a balancing disaster, I think it'd be for the best to just balance the game in regards to the characters and not additional systems attached.

Huh? Playing both for years, Brawl is far more balanced compared to the mess of Melee. Your probably listening too much to competitive players where up is down, left is right and nothing makes sense.

So as you guys know, I keep a close on eye on any news surrounding Street Fighter X Tekken, and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 to an extent (more so now that PW has been shown).

If you haven't been paying attention, it looks like Capcom may have found the happy medium for casual and hardcore players. The hardcore have an indepth system, made possibly more indepth with this mysterious Gem system (where the game is balanced around the use of these), while the casuals have all these insane party modes and gimmicks like Pandora that will keep them happy.

Smash is already very close to this. The problem right now is that Smash went gimmicky with Brawl and it lacks in substance compared to its predecessors when you take those gimmicks away. With this Gem system in the works, I'm quite curious what this could mean for possibly the 3DS version. Could we be looking at something like gems in the 3DS version?

I think it's the opposite. Smash got it right and Capcom goes for gimmicks. Capcom doesn't get the non competitive player. So much that they do what they usually do, than go and try to wedge something silly into their game that "casuals will like." Looking at the measurable results, I would have to say Sakurai is probably the one to ask to get these so called "casual," players.

 

[Aurane]

I may have my Wi Fi working now... If ur wanting to fight, PM me. JUST saying

 

[Deleted member]

@PsychoIncarnate: I like your idea. Having played the Budokai games, it could work out. Tom Nook could sell out stats and moves to you.

@ToiseofChoice: What do you think are the chances that we get Miis as playable characters?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Well, the 3DS version is supposed to be more customizable.
And if said customization is a customizable character like I've heard a lot, the Mii's best bet is as the customizable character.

 

[OmegaXXII]

@Toise: Ive taken up on you Castlevania offer son!

 

[Metal Overlord]

Double Dash is my favorite Mario Kart ever, so I'd really love for it to get some music/stage representation...

Especially the Daisy Cruiser and Menu tracks, those are my favorites ever.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I loved the Mario Circuit theme from Brawl alot.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Omaha: You sure suck at following the instructions I gave you in that PM.


@SSBFBSFSBBF: My personal bet says they'll be in, that their size and moveset will be fixed, that their base color won't be, and that they might have some other cool thing to customize their appearance.

 

[Oasis_S]

@SSBFBSFSBBF: My personal bet says they'll be in, that their size and moveset will be fixed, that their base color won't be, and that they might have some other cool thing to customize their appearance.

Awh.

I bet their color changes will be on their PANTS so that the Mii's shirt color wouldn't have to change.

Also, I bet their model will be something Smash exclusive so they don't have to switch between male and female models... and well, their usual model would just look extremely weird in Smash's more detailed art style.

 

[y.toonlink]

If Delfino Isle returns at all I think it'd be cool to land on Koopa Beach (from the original Mario Kart) even tho it's probably in the Mushroom Kingdom xD Either that or the music from that stage or the game's theme if it wasn't in Brawl.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I don't suck, I'm just lazy as hell, I'm going to add that Wii number right now.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well, what we do need is Bowser's Castle instead, I mean, it's ridiculous that Mario Kart Wii has gotten at least 3 different variation of it; yet Smash has none, not even 1, while the Mushroom Kingdom based stages are okay, I sure as hell would like to see something a little more different, Bowser has been in Smash since Melee for crying out loud, it's about time he got his own stage like Luigi got his Brawl.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sakurai mentioned customizing features when talking about Smash 3DS. The word customizing made me immediately think of Miis. I am not too thrilled about Miis as playable characters, however, I think they do deserve a place within Smash Bros. in consideration to how successful their games have been.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Mii's are ineviatble to appear, they are Nintendo's biggest thing since Mario this past generation, seeing as they appeared in Mario Kart Wii there's no doubt they'll make there presense known even further, and what better game than Smash 4 to due so.

 

[Shorts]

I would just like to say, first rounds of Nintendo Strong Debates have began. (Ridley vs. Palutena) So if you're interested, it's in the backroom. Also, I find this hilarious that Mach Rider is up against Krystal.

How many people here think the customization is going to be a failure?

How did you draw this conclusion? I'd love to hear it---especially if you're speaking from a casual standpoint.

He's not the only one who has said this, I've heard people say, MINUS MetaKnight Brawl is pretty well balanced. But I'unno.

He always speaks from a casual standpoint, he thinks Smash is like Street Fighter which isn't

Wouldn't that be the OPPOSITE of what he thinks?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Huh? Playing both for years, Brawl is far more balanced compared to the mess of Melee. Your probably listening too much to competitive players where up is down, left is right and nothing makes sense.

Lolwat.

How did you draw this conclusion? I'd love to hear it---especially if you're speaking from a casual standpoint. About the only thing you could argue about balance is that one game (Brawl) is a little bit easier to piay while the other (Melee) is a bit tougher due to mechanics/physics. Beyond that, it's pretty evenly balanced at that level between both games.

Smooth Criminal

 

[y.toonlink]

@Omega
I don't think it's that ridiculous, Mario Kart is a Mario game and Smash Bros is a crossover. I do think it'd be cool, either a multiplayer stage or a Adv Mode level (which if it looks stage worthy, haxors can make that possible)
Miis are inevitable to appear but I'm not so sure about playable. I do support them tho, which I knew I forgot to add something to my roster

 

[OmegaXXII]

He always speaks from a casual standpoint, he thinks Smash is like Street Fighter which isn't.