New Smash Bros for WiiU

[OmegaXXII]

Everyone's final smashes should be changed except fox, falco, and wolf's. And they should be renamed Landmaster Smashes.

Wat!!?? I think you got that backwards, nobody's Final Smash should change except for Fox and Wolf, they shouldn't be a rip-off Landmaster from Fox's signature. <_>

 

[OmegaXXII]

Bowser should fly around in his clown car and toss bombs and minions everywhere. That'd be awesome.

Speaking of which, how'd ya feel if the final smashes were nerfed, but obtained like super gauge in street fighter or MVC3?

yeah, Im definetly would like Bowser to ACTUALLY use HIS OWN Final Snash this tine around, something in between a Falcon FS and DDD.

Also, would adding a super meter of sorts actually make an FS more usable then since they would be nerfed anyway??

 

[Sunnysunny]

Well I was thinking competitively. Even if FS's were nerfed in the next game, if the only way to obtain em is to get the smash ball it would still be inbalanced. (as other characters have an easier time getting it then others)

As they are now, taking out a whoooole stock is pretty damn broken. but if they were nerfed a bit and came in the form of powerful move you get for playing well it'd be pretty damn interesting, ya know?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Bowser should fly around in his clown car and toss bombs and minions everywhere. That'd be awesome.

Speaking of which, how'd ya feel if the final smashes were nerfed, but obtained like super gauge in street fighter or MVC3?

The super meter stuff is beyond overused in fighting games. I like the Final Smashes via a Smash Ball, because it's actually different. The only game to use something similar that I've seen is Power Stone where you collect 3 power stones to unlock a temporary super form.

I think Super Meters are neat and all, but they're best left is pure technical fighters.

I do like how they did it in Soul Calibur IV with the Critical Finishes. That was done better, imo.

 

[Oasis_S]

At least Final Smashes being related to an item means they can be turned off.

...Unless of course there was just an "allow Final Smashes? y/n" option on the... options menu.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Its just booooooring as hell not having some kinda game changer move tucked away though. Who cares if there overused. There overused because the idea of super meter is a damn good system that works. We don't need to sacrifice viability to make it a gimmick. Like, as they are now smash balls have no place in competetive play. Hell, alot of casuals even hate it. (Where ya at super sonic)

And yea, of course they're would be an option to turn off super meter just like it were an item.

This game needs some kinda spice. Some dangerous, but avoidable attack the character can pack as an ace in the hole. Thats why brawl is boring too watch imo. When you get hit in melee, you feel rewarded because it will lead into something. Not brawl. Every hit feels like a reset.

 

[Deleted member]

For Final Smashes, Fox, Falco, and Wolf need a different one as does Toon Link.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Some dangerous, but avoidable attack?
That's what a Final Smash is even with the Smash Ball!

 

[ChronoBound]

The unfortunate thing is that if Kid Icarus Uprising had not been delayed, the first newcomers to Smash 4 would have already been determined this month.

Now we are unsure when Smash 4 will begin development.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Agreed with HyperFalcon.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Some dangerous, but avoidable attack?
That's what a Final Smash is!

Did you just quote one part of my post without reading the rest!? Wat the **** chuck.

anywho, again, powerful, but not "rob you of your entire stock" powerful. And trying to run away from a landmaster of super sonics is far from "avoidable." Possible? Yea. Unlikely? Definitly. That and AGAIN the smashball cannot be used competetivly because of its random nature, and how certain characters get it far easier then others.

and again, why sacrifice usability for a gimmick?

 

[Big-Cat]

Its just booooooring as hell not having some kinda game changer move tucked away though. Who cares if there overused. There overused because the idea of super meter is a damn good system that works. We don't need to sacrifice viability to make it a gimmick. Like, as they are now smash balls have no place in competetive play. Hell, alot of casuals even hate it. (Where ya at super sonic)

And yea, of course they're would be an option to turn off super meter just like it were an item.

This. The final smash, while different, is a gimmick at best and has absolutely no place in competitive Smash, or play in general. The Super meter is a tried and true system. Why else has it been around for nearly 20 years?

I don't see a need for it though to have an on/off switch. Super moves, more often than not, are not bad enough where this is an issue.

Some dangerous, but avoidable attack?
That's what a Final Smash is even with the Smash Ball!

Not really. You have moves like Peach's and Kirby FS that are only avoidable to a certain extent.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Super Smadhes would be way too cool with combos and such, it would be a secondary that everyone would have.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Super Smash Bros. is not like those Fighters with Super Meters. It uses items.(likewise, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work in competitive play. There's more than one way to play the game)

The items are the key to the game. That's why the Smash Ball exists, as it's better for a game that was designed with item usage in mind.

Honestly, we don't need to turn it into a Traditional Fighter at all. The game is fine the way it is.

Also, what Oasis said about being able to turn them off. That's ALSO nice.

Likewise, if we wanted to include them in competitive gameplay, we could've put only that item on at the lowest setting. It works either way.

 

[Big-Cat]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Include all the cancels from games such as jump cancels, chains, special cancels, super cancels, etc. along with adding two more buttons for normals (and map out some of the ones on A as a result), you'd be looking at a more diverse roster with more exciting and defined playstyles.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Well, regardless... The Smash Ball doesn't seem to have stopped Brawl from doing well. Plus, the Smash Ball fits the naturally chaotic nature of Smash.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Smadh ball will likely stay.

Inb4fightingdebateensues.

 

[Opelucid]

I don't mind Final Smashes I don't like the idea of a Super Smash as long as Sakurai gets rid of those terrible Landmasters I'm fine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Smadh ball will likely stay.

Inb4fightingdebateensues.

Completely agreed. Smash is nothing like Street Fighter, and it shouldn't be like it. It's an unique gameplay experience where items are part of the game. Gimmicks are perfectly fine if they fit within the game itself.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Unlimited love for you Kumaaa~ I thought I was alone on this. c:

Anywho, a good example is smashbros crusade. A flash game thats been in the making for years. (Look it up and mess around with it if ya havn't yet. Its pretty fun.) Anywho, they use a super meter type system with toned down final smashes. Whether they be in the form of doing alot of damage, or just being a good kill move to whip out when the time is right.

Super Smash Bros. is not like those Fighters with Super Meters. It uses items.(likewise, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work in competitive play. There's more than one way to play the game)

The items are the key to the game. That's why the Smash Ball exists, as it's better for a game that was designed with item usage in mind.

Honestly, we don't need to turn it into a Traditional Fighter at all. The game is fine the way it is.

OR! Just bear with me here. Instead of just appealing to casual gamers, we can appeal...TO BOTH COMPETITIVE AND CASUALS!

Ya see, this is what ****ed up brawl so much. Sakurai was soooo paranoid about trying to keep his game casual, that he ****ed it up royally for both casuals and competitive players.

He nerfed the hitstun to make combosless viable. All this did was slow the game down and make it boring for both casuals and competitive players. its like telling your kid "Yea you can play outside. Oh but you have to wear this bubble rap that severly limits what you can do. BUT ATLEAST YOU'LL BE SAFE!"

He made it so online play only has basic brawl and team mode so that no one would feel bad about losing to someone 1 on 1. This just made the online gameplay feel REALLY limited.

Basically what he did was nerf customization.
CUSTOMIZING A GAME IS THE BIGGEST ASPECT OF A GAME MAN!

How about this then, so we can appeal to both casual and competitive gamers, we include a super meter mode, and a smash ball mode? Everyones happy. Yey.

Again, more options is the way to make a good game. People don't like to feel limited. Ya gotta expand. Is it a bad game? No. Could have been a whole of a hell lot better if more options were add? Yesyesyes.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I agree with HyperFalcon and SmashChu to a certain extent, while i wouldn't mind more advance mechanics I simply don't want it turning and crossing that fence which is smash and leapping into Street Fighter territory, the mechanics are nice but let's try not to make it so much like it, that what makes Smash unique

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Smadh ball will likely stay.

Inb4fightingdebateensues.

Thank you.
Smash doesn't need a traditional fighter's special meter because it isn't a traditional fighter. Simple as that.

 

[Llumys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LILhai7IHI

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Thank you.
Smash doesn't need a traditional fighter's special meter because it isn't a traditional fighter. Simple as that.

Exactly, while Smash should incorporate some competitive aspects, it shouldn't completly turn into one, after all, that is what makes Smash unique.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thank you.
Smash doesn't need a traditional fighter's special meter because it isn't a traditional fighter. Simple as that.

That's like saying an FPS doesn't need jumping because it's not a platformer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

OR! Just bear with me here. Instead of just appealing to casual gamers, we can appeal...TO BOTH COMPETITIVE AND CASUALS!

Ya see, this is what ****ed up brawl so much. Sakurai was soooo paranoid about trying to keep his game casual, that he ****ed it up royally for both casuals and competitive players.

He nerfed the hitstun to make combosless viable. All this did was slow the game down and make it boring for both casuals and competitive players.

He made it so online play only has basic brawl and team mode so that no one would feel bad about losing to someone 1 on 1. This just made the online gameplay feel REALLY limited.

Basically what he did was nerf customization.
CUSTOMIZING A GAME IS THE BIGGEST ASPECT OF A GAME MAN!

How about this then, so we can appeal to both casual and competitive gamers, we include a super meter mode, and a smash ball mode? Everyones happy. Yey.

Again, more options is the way to make a good game. People don't like to feel limited. Ya gotta expand.

You don't need a super meter to fix the game. He did fine with Melee. And he can do it again. Brawl is still fine in competitive play. Competitive play is a mindset, not the mechanics of a game. Being harder to set up for competition isn't the same thing as being impossible.

Also, casuals play games how they want(as in, not removing stuff). Competitive sets up games with very specific rules. That's the key difference.

And once again, the game was not built around the idea of the Super Meter. It doesn't have stuff like an HP Meter outside of a special mode.(Boss Battles, SSE, HP on) It was built to play with or without items. With variable courses that aren't static like Final Destination.

If I want to play Street Fighter, I'll play Street Fighter. If I want to play Smash, I'll play Smash. We don't need the game to become different from it's tried and true formula. I agree that it could've been faster with more combos, but people act like it doesn't work at all. That's not true. It works fine.

@Kuma: Jumping isn't limited to Platformers. It never was. I don't know where you got that idea from. It's been in fighting games from... day one?

 

[OmegaXXII]

^^Agreed with that!!

 

[Deleted member]

The unfortunate thing is that if Kid Icarus Uprising had not been delayed, the first newcomers to Smash 4 would have already been determined this month.

Now we are unsure when Smash 4 will begin development.

It'll start once Kid Icarus Uprising gets released.

 

[Sunnysunny]

You don't need a super meter to fix the game. He did fine with Melee. And he can do it again. Brawl is still fine in competitive play. Competitive play is a mindset, not the mechanics of a game. Being harder to set up for competition isn't the same thing as being impossible.

That didn't really work out for brawl that well though did it? Due to its lack of versatility and what not it gets a whole hell of alot of hate. Melee was versatile by fluke. I really hope he manages to "fluke" back wavedashing and all those crazy things back. I'm just saying, if the comboability and versatility isn't returned, then a super meter would help. AND DOOOOD!! It certainly wouldn't hurt. You guys act as if it becomes a street fighter clone. This game is far from street fighter with or without super meter. Give it the ability to be turned off or in the form of a smash ball and everyones happy. .

Also, casuals play games how they want(as in, not removing stuff). Competitive sets up games with very specific rules. That's the key difference.

No matter how hard we try to make this game competitive, lets face it, its a joke to everyone else and even half the community that play it competitively Some balance would be sweet and casuals wouldn't care less.

And once again, the game was not built around the idea of the Super Meter. It doesn't have stuff like an HP Meter outside of a special mode.(Boss Battles, SSE, HP on) It was built to play with or without items. With variable courses that aren't static like Final Destination.

Yes it doesn't have hp. but it has something similar. Damage. Damage is basically the hp mechanic tweeked to fit brawls knock back system. The more you get hit, the closer you are too death. That sounds like every other fighting game. Whos to say we can't put in the super meter mechanic and brawlify it?

If I want to play Street Fighter, I'll play Street Fighter. If I want to play Smash, I'll play Smash. We don't need the game to become different from it's tried and true formula. I agree that it could've been faster with more combos, but people act like it doesn't work at all. That's not true. It works fine.

It works, but again it could have been way better. Instead of just "working" it could have been AMAAAZING~ Super meter isn't a bad thing. Just put in the option to turn it off like items. I mean, dude, you were talking so much about being able to turn off items early. Being able to turn off this function would appeal to more people. So people that want it can have it on while people who don't can have it off.

@Kuma: Jumping isn't limited to Platformers. It never was. I don't know where you got that idea from. It's been in fighting games from... day one?

Actually just read this version. Much more to the point.
vvvvvvvvv

TLDR version: Put it in. Give it the ability to turn it off or in the form of smash ball = congratz, everyones happy.

I really think the competetive scene would be greatful that sakurai actually gave them something that remotely simulates competetive play. something that rewards players for doing good instead of the normal "EVERYTHING MUST HAVE CHAOTIC NATURE" thing we have going on. and again. Just make it optional.

Customizing the game is the most important aspect of any game. More options = better.

 

[OmegaXXII]

That would be nice but still, as long as Smash doesn't go over it's barrier.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Hooold up. Imma get a link to super smash crusade. Its a much better example then I can put into words. xD

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well, it sounds cool but a visualization would be better.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That didn't really work out for brawl that well though did it? Due to its lack of versatility and what not it gets a whole hell of alot of hate. Melee was versatile by fluke. I really hope he manages to "fluke" back wavedashing and all those crazy things back. I'm just saying, if the comboability and versatility isn't returned, then a super meter would help. AND DOOOOD!! It certainly wouldn't hurt. You guys act as if it becomes a street fighter clone. This game is far from street fighter with or without super meter. Give it the ability to be turned off or in the form of a smash ball and everyones happy.

Um, yeah, the super meter is the problem. That's a huge change that just makes it like your typical traditional fighter. And no, it worked fine for Brawl. Brawl is its own game. Is it not Melee or SSB64. And it should be treated differently. Wavedashing wasn't actually needed as is. If we're going by AT's, Brawl returned all the useful ones that aren't beyond ridiculous, except possibly L-Cancel.

No matter how hard we try to make this game competitive, lets face it, its a joke to everyone else and even half the community that play it competitively Some balance would be sweet and casuals wouldn't care less.

Who cares what everyone else think? I didn't say it wasn't unbalanced. But it's not as ridiculous as you make it. Honestly, Marvel VS Capcom 2 was much worse.

Yes it doesn't have hp. but it has something similar. Damage. Damage is basically the hp mechanic tweeked to fit brawls knock back system. The more you get hit, the closer you are too death. That sounds like every other fighting game. Whos to say we can't put in the super meter mechanic and brawlify it?

Nope, because it doesn't work like any other fighting game. You don't get knockbacked because you have more damage in the games, you just die faster. HP and Percent are extremely different from eachother. You're oversimplifying it here.

It works, but again it could have been way better. Instead of just "working" it could have been AMAAAZING~ Super meter isn't a bad thing. Just put in the option to turn it off like items. I mean, dude, you were talking so much about being able to turn off items early. Being able to turn off this function would appeal to more people. So people that want it can have it on while people who don't can have it off.

Super Meter doesn't make it amazing, though. And I highly doubt we would've had the option to turn it off. Could we turn off Tripping? Nope. Also, let's take a game that uses a Super Meter like the one you're suggesting, but plays like Smash Bros. It's called Sonic Battle. The difference here is that it doesn't give you a special move, but it turns your special attacks into a OHK. That's what would essentially happen due to most of the Final Smashes being based upon being able to OHK. Even if you could turn it off, why do you need to make it similar to those Traditional Fighters? Isn't Items, Unique Characters, Non-Static Stages, what makes this game different from those kind of Fighters? I'd like to keep its uniqueness as much as possible.

Also, multiquote next time please. I can't quote you because your replies are part of the quote itself.(when we quote on here, we only quote stuff outside of the quote box)

 

[Sunnysunny]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152960

boop.
The thread. Download the game if ya want. Its still a beta, but its well made.

They use super meter and have the ability to turn it on or off. You gain super meter by either getting hit (You gain less though) or dealing damage (You gain more this way) so it rewards you for playing well.

Once you get it, its used the same way as a smashball. By hitting B. Its like a final smash only nerfed. Like for example yoshi keeps his super dragon, but it does less damage and knockback but still makes him impervious to damage for it a bit. Lucarios has been changed to close combat doing a set amount of damage and good amount of damage making it MORE useful then what it was before. Seriously aurastorm was so easy to dodge, it was practically useless.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Well, like I was saying earlier, Kirby's Final Smash(IMO) should change depending on the copy ability he has since he copies neutral B.
So if he copied Luigi, he would use Negative Zone.
If normal Kirby, you will use Cook Kirby.

As interesting as it sounds, it wouldn't exactly work, especially when you take into account transformations, such as Giga Bowser, Wario-Man, and Beast Ganon.

 

[Opelucid]

Kirby's final smash should be Crash Kirby... or Something among those lines I really dislike Cooking Kirby

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152960

boop.
The thread. Download the game if ya want. Its still a beta, but its well made.

They use super meter and have the ability to turn it on or off. You gain super meter by either getting hit (You gain less though) or dealing damage (You gain more this way) so it rewards you for playing well.

Once you get it, its used the same way as a smashball. By hitting B. Its like a final smash only nerfed. Like for example yoshi keeps his super dragon, but it does less damage and knockback but still makes him impervious to damage for it a bit. Lucarios has been changed to close combat doing a set amount of damage and good amount of damage making it MORE useful then what it was before. Seriously aurastorm was so easy to dodge, it was practically useless.

I don't have the ability to use Hacks at this time. I gave an analogy to how it actually works in Smash via Sonic Battle. That's how both games are designed, because they play a lot alike.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I agree with Hyper on this!

 

[Sunnysunny]

Um, yeah, the super meter is the problem. That's a huge change that just makes it like your typical traditional fighter. And no, it worked fine for Brawl. Brawl is its own game. Is it not Melee or SSB64. And it should be treated differently. Wavedashing wasn't actually needed as is. If we're going by AT's, Brawl returned all the useful ones that aren't beyond ridiculous, except possibly L-Cancel.

Oh. So like, items, being able to turn around, hover in the air, only die by getting blasted off the side of the stage, and having no health meter wouldn't be diffrent enough from other fighting games? K.


its a diffrent game, but taking examples from better games helps. Brawl is a step down from melee when it comes to how fun and fast paced it was. It has better graphics and more characters. All it needs is better mechanics. See were i'm getting at? combine all the good aspects ditch all the ****ty ones.

Who cares what everyone else think? I didn't say it wasn't unbalanced. But it's not as ridiculous as you make it. Honestly, Marvel VS Capcom 2 was much worse.

[/QUOTE]

I care. Because those people could be playing the game instead of hating on it. Also I didn't mention MVC2. Which btw, is a horrible game thanks to its imbalance and lack of (USABLE) character diversity. The main gist of everything I say is "ADD MORE DIVERSITY.[/QUOTE]

Nope, because it doesn't work like any other fighting game. You don't get knockbacked because you have more damage in the games, you just die faster. HP and Percent are extremely different from eachother. You're oversimplifying it here.

And I think your overcomplicating it here. Make it do above average damage, or making a good kill move, or some kinda powerup boost to your character. Hell, or even keep them the same with just a damage or knockback nerf so there not too devestating. Peachs is actually a good example. It can net her a kill which she desperately needs. But instead of making it unavoidable give it a large but avoidable hitbox.

Just an example.

Super Meter doesn't make it amazing, though. And I highly doubt we would've had the option to turn it off. Could we turn off Tripping? Nope. Also, let's take a game that uses a Super Meter like the one you're suggesting, but plays like Smash Bros. It's called Sonic Battle. The difference here is that it doesn't give you a special move, but it turns your special attacks into a OHK. That's what would essentially happen due to most of the Final Smashes being based upon being able to OHK. Even if you could turn it off, why do you need to make it similar to those Traditional Fighters? Isn't Items, Unique Characters, Non-Static Stages, what makes this game different from those kind of Fighters? I'd like to keep its uniqueness as much as possible.

I'm saying if we can turn it off. Did I say " I want tripping?" You know damn well what my opinion on tripping is.

Also please stop ignoring half of what I say. Thats a nice comparison but I exhausted the hell outta of saying "BUT NERF THEM BUT NERF THEM BUT NERF THEM' <<<<< <<<<<<<<<

Read that. nerf them. Nerfnerfnerf. Its not that hard. Also diversity > uniqueness. Because it can have that cool unique smash factor that NO OTHER GAME HAS, or you can use this sweet mechanic that works well in alot of fighting games. Give the player the choice of what they want.

Also, multiquote next time please. I can't quote you because your replies are part of the quote itself.(when we quote on here, we only quote stuff outside of the quote box)

Sorry about that. I got lazy. .w.

ANYWHO

Would adding the option really hurt the game? Would it? Do you think people would be complain about this thing that they have the option to turn on or off?

Competetive smashers don't complain about items or smashballs because they don't have to use em. Just think about it man.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Kirby's final smash should be Crash Kirby... or Something among those lines I really dislike Cooking Kirby

Thats his final smash in smash brother crusade. :D

@hyperfalcon sorry if i'm being passive aggressive, but its frusterating trying to get my point across. Like again, just read the last part of that last post. Its the general gist of what I want to get across. Is that it wouldn't hurt the game. It would help it by giving it more options. Its like items dude. People don't have to use items. BUT ITS THERE! and hell, some people like to use em!