New Smash Bros for WiiU

[SmashChu]

@Kuma: Let me put it this way. Sakurai, when designing characters, looks at everything. He does not do characters in a vacuum. For instance, Mario has a more faded look on his overalls to correspond with the less cartoony characters. Snake doesn't use real world weapons and uses explosives instead. This is because none of the other Smash Brothers characters use those kinds of real world weapons. But they use bombs and what not. See how everything lines up. Sakurai knows he is mixing many worlds, and he takes great consideration with making it all mesh well together.

Now let's look at Animal Crossing. The main character doesn't fighting as uses tools at best. But we are pairing him up with real fighting like Captain Falcon or warriors like Link. He is out of his elements. He could use the tools, but they were never intended for that purpose. He's not a fighting in a world of fighters, so he would stick out like a sore thumb. Sakurai did have a moveset for him, but went back on him. It was likely because he didn't want to put non fighting characters along side fighting ones, including ruthless villains. I think capcom did not take that kind of care.

BRB be back in 6 hours.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yes, I remember that move you suggested, Kuma. My other ideas involved the dog pointing fingers at the opponents... as if he is telling the hunter "Shoot right here! No! Shoot over there!" and the hunter shoots at the spot the dog points to. I remember years ago, I originally had the dog shooting with the Zapper but someone told me that all the dog ever does is point and laugh and that's why he cannot fight or use guns because it would be out of character... so I worked around that. That's how I came up with the "breaking the fourth wall to fight" concept for the dog.

Edit: @ Smashchu

Anything can be used as weapons. For example, a frying pan is supposed to be used for cooking but you have Peach and Mr. Game & Watch swinging pans. Hell, Kirby's Final Smash involved cooking! I guess Animal Crosser's moveset would involve using tools as weapons. A shovel to make Pitfalls to trap opponents. A fishing pole to hook and reel in enemies like Link's Hookshot. An axe to cut through opponents. A bug-catching net to catch projectiles and release them back at the opponents. A slingshot would be your standard projectile special move.

 

[Shorts]

Now let's look at Animal Crossing. The main character doesn't fighting as uses tools at best. But we are pairing him up with real fighting like Captain Falcon or warriors like Link. He is out of his elements. He could use the tools, but they were never intended for that purpose. He's not a fighting in a world of fighters, so he would stick out like a sore thumb. Sakurai did have a moveset for him, but went back on him. It was likely because he didn't want to put non fighting characters along side fighting ones, including ruthless villains. I think capcom did not take that kind of care.

Okay, I see where you could complain about Phoenix Wright. I think he looks weird, and his moveset is kind of lame. But, I honestly don't care that much because I know that Tom Nook would never look like that. I find the argument about not putting non-fiighting haracters next to the most evl Nintendo characters silly. Look at Peach, look at ROB and even look at Zelda to some extent. They aren't REALLY fighters. They're just popular/important characters who have a workable moveset. Like Tom nook. I mean, even if his one of his B moves involves throwing objects, or his forward A move if him tripping and sliding, it's nothing like how Phoenix Wright was handled. He could be a "silly" character, but Wario so is Wario. I mean, I just don't think Tom Nook is in the same boat as someone throwing papers and sneezeing.

MY POINT IS, he wouldn't be out of place really, and his moveset wouldn't be something as ugly as Phoenix Wright's. He would just be a clumsy character who can kick your butt. Look at Tingle. That's pretty much what he would be. I weirdo who could kick your butt.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Phoenix Wright is today? Any link or source for this?

 

[Big-Cat]

Anything can be used as weapons. For example, a frying pan is supposed to be used for cooking but you have Peach and Mr. Game & Watch swinging pans. Hell, Kirby's Final Smash involved cooking! I guess Animal Crosser's moveset would involve using tools as weapons. A shovel to make Pitfalls to trap opponents. A fishing pole to hook and reel in enemies like Link's Hookshot. An axe to cut through opponents. A bug-catching net to catch projectiles and release them back at the opponents. A slingshot would be your standard projectile special move.

This gets back to what I was saying earlier. Take away the aesthetics of the move and make it just hitboxes, a fishing pole grabbing move isn't different from a hookshot.

Whether or not a move looks like a fighting move is ultimately irrelevant.

@King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LILhai7IHI&feature=player_embedded

 

[Arcadenik]

Phoenix Wright is today? Any link or source for this?

It is on page 3266. Look for Starphoenix's post...

Edit: Thanks Kuma. But I agree with what you said about hitboxes and aesthetics... whether it looks like a fighting move or not is irrelevant because they are all a bunch of hitboxes. Though the aesthetics should fit with the character.... and to me, Phoenix Wright's moveset fits him. Wolverine wouldn't get away with screaming "Objection!" but Phoenix Wright can because that's part of his character.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Meh, I don't think K.Rool not having a tail will really affect his in game model.

I know it is a little off topic, but here is Nova and Phoenix Wrights' UMvC3 trailers.

http://youtu.be/2qHIpusRAgQ
http://youtu.be/-LILhai7IHI

Wow, this is amazing indeed and it looks epic beyond anything incould ever imagine, seems moveset argument are weak when I looked at this, I cannot wait for this then .

 

[reserk]

well can we name a few charcaters that were obsucred in the smash series? like i thought jigglypuff was weird being in smash. game and watch was next in melee. then we got ROB. it seems that almost every fighting game has some weird characters put into them that dont really match the fighting criteria.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Obscure character for me are...

Alice
Duck Hunt Dog
Starman (Earthbound)
Orbulon
Earthworm Jim
Mach Rider
Balloon Fighter???

 

[Arcadenik]

The obscure characters I want the most are Duck Hunt Dog and Muddy Mole (he's the protagonist of the Game Boy classic Mole Mania). Anyone over 25 years old, remember those old Looney Tunes cartoons with dogs and gophers? Oh, it would be so sweet to see Duck Hunt Dog fighting Muddy Mole!

 

[Deleted member]

An obscure character I want is Saki Amaiya.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This gets back to what I was saying earlier. Take away the aesthetics of the move and make it just hitboxes, a fishing pole grabbing move isn't different from a hookshot.

Whether or not a move looks like a fighting move is ultimately irrelevant.

@King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LILhai7IHI&feature=player_embedded

Plus, remember Twilight Princess' final fight? Hey, you can use that Fishing Pole to effectively get a free hit on Ganondorf!

Also, if a comprehensive move list can be made, I'm all for it. I think that if they have no legs or arms, it's simply harder to make one for them. Like Slime. I explained some pages back that his move list is limited due to his body structure. It's mostly magic, which means tons of projectiles. That would be largely unbalanced if most of his moves was projectiles. Although it could be possible if many moves was more like elemental jabs.

Edit for Obscure:

Brian from Quest 64

...That's all I can think of.

 

[OmegaXXII]

No, better yet how about a Duck Hunt Dod event agaisnt a playable Meowth!! Now that would be sweet indeed, I never got why Muddy Mole is wanted alot hmm....

Oh yeah, Lip as well, even though it isn't too obscure.

 

[Big-Cat]

Plus, remember Twilight Princess' final fight? Hey, you can use that Fishing Pole to effectively get a free hit on Ganondorf!

Also, if a comprehensive move list can be made, I'm all for it. I think that if they have no legs or arms, it's simply harder to make one for them. Like Slime. I explained some pages back that his move list is limited due to his body structure. It's mostly magic, which means tons of projectiles. That would be largely unbalanced if most of his moves was projectiles. Although it could be possible if many moves was more like elemental jabs.

Edit for Obscure:

Brian from Quest 64

...That's all I can think of.

Actually, if it was also magic, it wouldn't necessarily be overpowered. It'd be overpowering if all the moves had transcending priority. Ibuki's kunai in SFIV can be stopped by just about every attack for example. Make it so a part of Slime's moveset has moves than be out prioritized or stuffed and it should be fine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, if it was also magic, it wouldn't necessarily be overpowered. It'd be overpowering if all the moves had transcending priority. Ibuki's kunai in SFIV can be stopped by just about every attack for example. Make it so a part of Slime's moveset has moves than be out prioritized or stuffed and it should be fine.

Projectiles often have priority though. Compared to regular attacks. I think something like Zelda with more projectiles could work?(I mean, obviously, the attacks wouldn't be the same due to lack of something other than a blobby body)

 

[OmegaXXII]

Indeed it would be awesome that way.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

What about items included in the next Smash? Every Smash has items the previous one didn't have.
I'm hoping they bring back the Red Shell, Parasol, and Cloaking Device.
I also hope they add Kracko as an Assist Trophy(sort of like the Kracko item in Kirby Air Ride's Top Ride).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Definitely needs more cooler Assist Trophies. Preferrably less Mario ones.

And honestly? I was fine with the Parasol and Cloaking Device gone. Both were extremely overpowered. Brawl was too defensive, and the Parasol gave an amazing recovery by itself, and wasn't too shabby as an attack item. The Cloaking Device made it so you couldn't take damage. Enough said right there.

The Red Shell, though... there was no reason to take it out. It was a very chaotic item. And Casual. I question why it got taken out for moar explosives.

As for new items, what's there to add? A new sword? I could see something like a dagger maybe? It gives faster attacks, but much less range.

 

[ChronoBound]

Balloon fighter is ALMOST ALWAYS the "Well, I hate Tingle, so **** off" trump card. He doesn't have many ACTUAL supporters.

You do know that Balloon Fighter has had support for his inclusion since pre-Melee times right?

Its Tingle who has a lot of faux support, most of which is based upon trying to get Zelda to have a fifth slot for the sake of having a fifth slot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You do know that Balloon Fighter has had support for his inclusion since pre-Melee times right?

Its Tingle who has a lot of faux support, most of which is based upon trying to get Zelda to have a fifth slot for the sake of having a fifth slot.

Both of them had actual support. Albeit, both were shot down many times. Tingle due to hatred, and Balloon Fighter due to less fighting capabilities that other fighters. Although a comprehensive moveset is welcome to me.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Items I want a blue shell and Rainbow Star from Mario Galaxy

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh yeah, Lip as well, even though it isn't too obscure.

Lip is probably the most obscure of the C-list heroes. I personally also think that she would be the most interesting of them as well, however, she is also the least likely to be made playable.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The reason I mentioned her was because of her obvious item being in game since Melee, plus her item has been represented through Kirby's down B, perhaps a stage would be in order? Like Animal Crossong?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

What about the Crystal Shooter from Kirby 64?
5 crystals fall from the sky(sorta like Dragoon's parts). Whoever collects them all goes to the foreground and shoots them at the players on the stage. The player with the Shooter shoots 5 crystals.
To prevent overpowering, after a certain time interval, it will automatically shoot a crystal.

 

[Starphoenix]

Smashchu may feel vindicated by this, but a high level player who runs SRK, Mr. Wizard, is saying that Phoenix Wright is a "slow and dumb character", and later adding that he will be essentially useless for competitive play.

Lesson of the day. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The Dragoon Parts were interesting, another item I would like would be Sonic's shield or Sonic Shoes, I find it weird that 3rd parties lacked items.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Dragoon Parts were interesting, another item I would like would be Sonic's shield or Sonic Shoes, I find it weird that 3rd parties lacked items.

They still kind of do. The Motion Sensor Bomb was made from Perfect Dark in Melee(and possibly 64) and is still in Brawl.

Although I do wonder why they wouldn't. But Sonic's Shoes would be... redundant thanks to the Bunny Hood. I could see the Shield or some Rings(which would allow you to take a few hits without any damage. Similar to the Cloaking Device, except you're perfectly seeable by everybody, and have a limit equal to the number of rings you pick up).

 

[Le vieux lapin]

I'm surprised they didn't incorporate those rings into some
element of Sonic's gameplay. As an item though I'm not
sure how it would work.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

To be honest, I was surprised when there were no items from Kirby 64, which is why I suggested the Crystal Shooter.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'm surprised they didn't incorporate those rings into some
element of Sonic's gameplay. As an item though I'm not
sure how it would work.

Yeah, you would think that Sonic would have some kind of Ring type move or even a taunt related to it, it's weird since it's basically what Sonic uses in his games.

 

[SwayneGang]

What about items included in the next Smash? Every Smash has items the previous one didn't have.
I'm hoping they bring back the Red Shell, Parasol, and Cloaking Device.
I also hope they add Kracko as an Assist Trophy(sort of like the Kracko item in Kirby Air Ride's Top Ride).

I agree. They should bring those back. And I also like the idea of Kracko as an AT. Never thought of that.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Fighter Joe was an awesome AT lol...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm surprised they didn't incorporate those rings into some
element of Sonic's gameplay. As an item though I'm not
sure how it would work.

I explained the item earlier. It would make it so you could take no damage from a limited number of hits.

And yeah, what was up with that? Throwing a ring upwards could've worked. I think he's wearing rings on his wrists, though.

@King: And now he's just your average joe.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yeah, if they incorporated the rings in terms of damage then it would be neat, sadly I don't see Sakurai using as an option, great concept for casual play though, they better have Sonic's Invincible theme.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Ok, this is unrelated to the topic, but I have three things to say:
1. Since every veteran gets one of their stages from the previous Smash, New Pork City will unfortunately return.
2. That being said, I hope they change the Ultimate Chimera. When you attack it while it's facing away from you, you should hit the button, making it vanish instantly.
3. Kirby's Final Smash should change. If normal Kirby, he uses Cook Kirby. If he has a Copy Ability from a fighter, though, he should use their Final Smash because he gains their neutral B attack.

 

[OmegaXXII]

New Pork was a horrible stage, Hyrule style was better.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok, this is unrelated to the topic, but I have three things to say:
1. Since every veteran gets one of their stages from the previous Smash, New Pork City will unfortunately return.
2. That being said, I hope they change the Ultimate Chimera. When you attack it while it's facing away from you, you should hit the button, making it vanish instantly.
3. Kirby's Final Smash should change. If normal Kirby, he uses Cook Kirby. If he has a Copy Ability from a fighter, though, he should use their Final Smash because he gains their neutral B attack.

1: That's if they return one of his stages. Note that not every series had a returning stage. Honestly, I find it amongst the 3 worst stages in the game, IMO. The other two being Mario Bros. and Rumble Falls.(I thought 75m was better)
2: That'd be nice.
3: You do realize that could be pretty broken? Super Kirby, anyone?

@King: Agreed. Although I personally wish they returned Great Bay. Even if it made less sense.(you know, no Young Link)

 

[OmegaXXII]

Id rather see classic SSB brothers stages like Skyward Castle and Fourside in HD instead.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

1: That's if they return one of his stages. Note that not every series had a returning stage. Honestly, I find it amongst the 3 worst stages in the game, IMO. The other two being Mario Bros. and Rumble Falls.(I thought 75m was better)
2: That'd be nice.
3: You do realize that could be pretty broken? Super Kirby, anyone?

@King: Agreed. Although I personally wish they returned Great Bay. Even if it made less sense.(you know, no Young Link)

1. Well, when I said veteran, I meant the original 12.
2. Glad someone agrees with me in this.
3. Well, in my mind, they're either weaker, don't last as long, or both, since Kirby's not used to these powers. Plus, imagine Kirby with a grenade launcher. :D

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Id rather see classic SSB brothers stages like Skyward Castle and Fourside in HD instead.

Same. Hyrule Castle, Fourside, Kongo Jungle(either version from Melee or the first Smash, both were fun!) Metal Cavern(Battlefield doesn't give it justice, although I admit Smashville has a semi-similar design)

Atleast we got the Stage Builder so we can nearly remake most stages. Only problems were making the original Mushroom Kingdom due to lack of pipe options(I used Ice Blocks instead), and the Great Fox due to size.

1. Well, when I said veteran, I meant the original 12.
2. Glad someone agrees with me in this.
3. Well, in my mind, they're either weaker, don't last as long, or both, since Kirby's not used to these powers. Plus, imagine Kirby with a grenade launcher. :D

1: Okay.
2: I hate unbeatable stage gimmicks. Especially OTK ones.
3: But he can use all the B moves just as effectively unless data proves me wrong. And that's true. Speaking of that, has anybody seen the Shadow the Hedgehog Hack on YouTube?