New Smash Bros for WiiU

[OmegaXXII]

Haha, ensuing debate!!

*insert objection pic here*

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Sunnysunny, I'd rather have a unique fighter than a Street Fighter/Marvel vs. Capcom look-alike, even if it has successful mechanics. I'd really rather have something interesting that isn't usually used, such as the Smash Ball.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Sunnysunny, I'd rather have a unique fighter than a Street Fighter/Marvel vs. Capcom look-alike, even if it has successful mechanics. I'd really rather have something interesting that isn't usually used, such as the Smash Ball.

K. Then turn off super meter and use the smash ball item.

Customization.

Ya don't like items? Turn em off to.
The ability to turn things on off lets you customize your game.

I'm not saying set it in stone, i'm saying put in more options.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh. So like, items, being able to turn around, hover in the air, only die by getting blasted off the side of the stage, and having no health meter wouldn't be diffrent enough from other fighting games? K.

Right. It's a different kind of game. It's a different type of fighter.

its a diffrent game, but taking examples from better games helps. Brawl is a step down from melee when it comes to how fun and fast paced it was. It has better graphics and more characters. All it needs is better mechanics. See were i'm getting at? combine all the good aspects ditch all the ****ty ones.

This is purely opinion, however. "Better games" is purely subjective. So are good aspects. Honestly, tripping is the only thing that is widely agreed upon being an actual problem. The rest are purely subjective. It can leave, but the rest made it play differently.

I care. Because those people could be playing the game instead of hating on it. Also I didn't mention MVC2. Which btw, is a horrible game thanks to its imbalance and lack of (USABLE) character diversity. The main gist of everything I say is "ADD MORE DIVERSITY.

Alright. I was pointing out that it's not as bad as you make it due to how different it is from Melee, that's all.

And I think your overcomplicating it here. Make it do above average damage, or making a good kill move, or some kinda powerup boost to your character. Hell, or even keep them the same with just a damage or knockback nerf so there not too devestating. Peachs is actually a good example. It can net her a kill which she desperately needs. But instead of making it unavoidable give it a large but avoidable hitbox.

Just an example.

Yes, but you have to remember how the game plays. The difference is that it's based upon two main attack buttons, not four or five. And you use directional inputs. Also, if you add a Super Meter, why wouldn't you be tempted to add MORE things like Final Smashes? That's the problem with changing entire mechanics. Brawl does play differently from Melee, but it still shares the same core aspects. One of those is having special moves based upon directions or items.

I'm saying if we can turn it off. Did I say " I want tripping?" You know damn well what my opinion on tripping is.

Also please stop ignoring half of what I say. Thats a nice comparison but I exhausted the hell outta of saying "BUT NERF THEM BUT NERF THEM BUT NERF THEM' <<<<< <<<<<<<<<

Read that. nerf them. Nerfnerfnerf. Its not that hard. Also diversity > uniqueness. Because it can have that cool unique smash factor that NO OTHER GAME HAS, or you can use this sweet mechanic that works well in alot of fighting games. Give the player the choice of what they want.

They already have the choice to turn off Final Smashes as is. It's already in the game. And Smash Bros. was diverse from other Fighters in its gameplay, but within the game, it lacks that same thing. Remember, it uses a very specific style of moves. Outside of a few characters, you use the same commands for everyone. So it's both unique and diverse anyway. It doesn't need to be similar to those other fighters at all, because it's already just right the way it is. Mind you, I mean the series as a whole with my last statement.

Sorry about that. I got lazy. .w.

ANYWHO

Would adding the option really hurt the game? Would it? Do you think people would be complain about this thing that they have the option to turn on or off?

Competetive smashers don't complain about items or smashballs because they don't have to use em. Just think about it man.

Would it hurt it? Yes, it would. People would then complain about it being completely changed, as well as wonder why it doesn't have more traditional elements. When you bring one major traditional thing, you open up Pandora's Box is unfortunately make it so more is requested. This is actually true. People want more.

Now, much of it is subjective, but you cannot deny that people will want more of it. Not everybody, of course, but some will. It's the same reason why we don't use hacks to removing Tripping in main Tournaments.(because people will want to fix more of the game)

I'm not saying options are bad. But I don't understand why people think it should be more like traditional fighters when it's not a traditional fighter. It's more like a Beat-'em-up.

 

[OmegaXXII]

That sound fair I guess.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sunnysunny, I'd rather have a unique fighter than a Street Fighter/Marvel vs. Capcom look-alike, even if it has successful mechanics. I'd really rather have something interesting that isn't usually used, such as the Smash Ball.

THIIISSSS!!!!!!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

THIIISSSS!!!!!!

THANK YOU! FINALLY! Someone agrees with me!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sunnysunny, I'd rather have a unique fighter than a Street Fighter/Marvel vs. Capcom look-alike, even if it has successful mechanics. I'd really rather have something interesting that isn't usually used, such as the Smash Ball.

Agreed. The Street Fighter style is fine for Capcom, but a ton of other games use their own.

Even though Mortal Kombat 9 uses a Super Meter technically, it's used for things like Counters and the X-Ray move. And that's it. The thing is, it still plays like a Traditional Fighter, so it fits perfectly within the game.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Eh i'll summarize my thoughts here and see if you agree.


Think of it this way. Some people don't like items. There just too different. BUT we have the ability to turn em off. We really can't complain if we can just move that mechanic from the game! and ya know what? This game appeals to more people because they were able to do so. With items on its like a whole diffrent game!

The same could be said about super meter!
Some people may not like it. But they don't have to use it. and those that DO like it will be greatful its there.

The whole uniqueness thing I don't agree with. Like, if items were in other games would you take them out because its not unique? Or would you keep them in because there fun and just give them the ability to turn it off and on!

 

[Sunnysunny]

THIIISSSS!!!!!!

Then turn...

THANK YOU! FINALLY!

The mechanic....

Agreed.

off.

Man its like you guys completely ignore that part. Like items. I don't like items, I turn em off.

Thats what makes smash awesome
"I don't like this stage!"
Turn it off!
"I don't like assist trophys!"
Turn em off.
"I don't like playing stock"
Try stamina! :D
"I don't like super meter"
Turn it off. :D :D :D EY? See wear i'm going with this? Its what sakurai originally aimed for! Everyone being happy. <3

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh i'll summarize my thoughts here and see if you agree.


Think of it this way. Some people don't like items. There just too different. BUT we have the ability to turn em off. We really can't complain if we can just move that mechanic from the game! and ya know what? This game appeals to more people because they were able to do so. With items on its like a whole diffrent game!

The same could be said about super meter!
Some people may not like it. But they don't have to use it. and those that DO like it will be greatful its there.

The whole uniqueness thing I don't agree with. Like, if items were in other games would you take them out because its not unique? Or would you keep them in because there fun and just give them the ability to turn it off and on!

It's not the same as items, though. Some of them are balanced, some are not. Likewise, items were there from the start. They appear in specific spots, and can give random advantages. It's true that a Super Meter would give everyone an equal advantage.

Nope, if items were already put in from the start, it'd be how the game plays. The difference here is that this game was designed as a different kind of game. It's completely different from Traditional Fighters because... it's not meant to be similar to them. As I said before, you should be comparing them to a beat-'em-up, because that's how Smash plays. It's that kind of fighter.

I'm not saying we shouldn't take notes from other ones, of course. But we don't need to copy a mechanic.

 

[Sunnysunny]

but we have stamina mode dude. Thats something from other fighting games. Hell my nephew plays on that mode all the time! I don't like it but I don't play on it so its like its not even therefore me. and those who have it our greatful its there!

Your so afraid of it becoming SF but adding it would make it nothing like it. Its still so damn different. And the super function, its a good function! Its been used in a whole lot of fighting games because its a good, fun mechanic~

Does super meter in MVC3 make it street fighters? HELL NAW!
Does x-ray vision make mortal kombat street fighters? HELLLLLL NAW!

 

[OmegaXXII]

Agreed. The Street Fighter style is fine for Capcom, but a ton of other games use their own.

Even though Mortal Kombat 9 uses a Super Meter technically, it's used for things like Counters and the X-Ray move. And that's it. The thing is, it still plays like a Traditional Fighter, so it fits perfectly within the game.

Agreed, I know mechanics are a part of competitive play and that's good but in no way should Smash be turned into Street Fighter, it seems people dislike the way the Smash system is already and are trying to transform it I to something it isn't.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Agreed, I know mechanics are a part of competitive play and that's good but in no way should Smash be turned into Street Fighter, it seems people dislike the way the Smash system is already and are trying to transform it I to something it isn't.

Read my post.
Read them. Now tell me why you think adding this OPTIONAL mechanic would turn this into street fighter while other games have done the same thing while still being the same game?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Of course a switch could be implemented with tripping like I've stated in the past, solely for competitive purposes of course.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Then turn...



The mechanic....



off.

Man its like you guys completely ignore that part. Like items. I don't like items, I turn em off.

Thats what makes smash awesome
"I don't like this stage!"
Turn it off!
"I don't like assist trophys!"
Turn em off.
"I don't like playing stock"
Try stamina! :D
"I don't like super meter"
Turn it off. :D :D :D EY? See wear i'm going with this? Its what sakurai originally aimed for! Everyone being happy. <3

Okay, I see where you're coming from, but when this series started, Sakurai didn't want it to be like any old traditional fighter. That's why there are items, extra modes and Trophies, Smash Balls, damage instead of health, and the ability to be KO'd off the side, top, and bottom of the screen. Now while a Special Meter may make some happy, it breaks Sakurai's image of how the game should play, so it probably won't happen. Plus, the Smash Ball makes the game interesting in its own because the players fight and scramble for it.
And you say SSBB is boring to watch? Well, that's pretty subjective, because I think Marvel vs. Capcom and Street Fighter are boring, which makes me think Smash is really interesting BECAUSE it's so unique.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Thank you.
*10gettingtiredandfrusteratedthateveryonescomparingittoothergames*

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

but we have stamina mode dude. Thats something from other fighting games. Hell my nephew plays on that mode all the time! I don't like it but I don't play on it so its like its not even therefore me. and those who have it our greatful its there!

Your so afraid of it becoming SF but adding it would make it nothing like it. Its still so damn different. And the super function, its a good function! Its been used in a whole lot of fighting games because its a good, fun mechanic~

Does super meter in MVC3 make it street fighters? HELL NAW!
Does x-ray vision make mortal kombat street fighters? HELLLLLL NAW!

Stamina Mode is only HP. The game plays almost identical. We're still dealing with the course and characters. The only difference is your goal, but that's it.

You do realize that MvC plays almost identical to Street Fighter except for the team mechanic, right?

Also, the X-Ray Move is pretty much exactly the same as a Super Move from Street Fighter. Mortal Kombat is still a Traditional Fighter, so it fits in better there. Also, most TRADITIONAL Fighters have added a Super Meter. Beat-'em-ups rarely use it because they're based upon using items as part of the gameplay.

Also, Poppy brings up a major point: The game is completely different for a reason. It's part of its charm. Honestly, I can watch computer matches too with huge enjoyment. Melee was boring as hell to watch, because it was too similar to a Traditional Fighter. But 64 and Brawl had really fun computers to face and watch. Of course, they were terrible to practice against, but I find those more entertaining because of how different they are.

 

[SwayneGang]

What they need to include for poke balls and Assist Trophies, is the option to choose who comes out. The only exceptions to that would be Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi, as they are a rare occurrence.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Stamina Mode is only HP. The game plays almost identical. We're still dealing with the course and characters. The only difference is your goal, but that's it.

K now watch what I do with this quote right here.

Super meter is only The smash ball item. The game plays almost identical. We're still dealing with the course and characters. The only difference is your goal, but that's it.

Tadah. Now did that change so much?
Why would you be so reluctant to add something you don't even have to use? Don't be so afraid of change. espicially if the change is optional.

Smash is so unique that changes like this would not change a damn thing to the overall way the game is. Its smash. This game can even be put in a damn category. its some weird platform/fighter hybrid. Adding a feature like this would not change it to the point where its street fighter. You can't make that arguement anymore man.

 

[Pachinkosam]

What they need to include for poke balls and Assist Trophies, is the option to choose who comes out. The only exceptions to that would be Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi, as they are a rare occurrence.

yeah but pokemons came from pokeballs not in trophys BUT I LIKE UR IDEA!!

 

[Big-Cat]

You wanna know something funny. Every thing Smash has is in some way found in other fighting games.

Smash has its own spin on the footsies in other fighting games where it's different enough to stand out, but similar enough so transitioning isn't too difficult.
Techniques like hovering, double jumping, etc. are found in other fighters. The only exception to this are the dodges and spot dodging.
None of the moves in Smash save for Ness and Lucas's PK Thunder and Flash are all that unique. You can find in equivalents in other games.

In short, Smash isn't all that unique as you think it is, but that's not a bad thing per se.

What it has for individual appeal, though, is that the K.O. method is entirely different. Although games like Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter have ringouts, but it's not every stage has that feature. If you take away the K.O. method and turn it into a strictly stamina based game, then it'd lose its unique appeal. Adding other FG mechanics will not inherently hurt the game's appeal.

 

[Sunnysunny]

What they need to include for poke balls and Assist Trophies, is the option to choose who comes out. The only exceptions to that would be Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi, as they are a rare occurrence.

Theres a hack that does that actually. Pretty damn chaotic with a 4 Kyogres trying to blast you off stage. =p

 

[Pachinkosam]

What they need to include for poke balls and Assist Trophies, is the option to choose who comes out. The only exceptions to that would be Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi, as they are a rare occurrence.

i change my mind i love the idea

 

[Big-Cat]

You do realize that MvC plays almost identical to Street Fighter except for the team mechanic, right?

Yeah, right. The fundamentals may be similar, but those two are so different it's not even funny.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

K now watch what I do with this quote right here.

Tadah. Now did that change so much?
Why would you be so reluctant to add something you don't even have to use? Don't be so afraid of change. espicially if the change is optional.

Smash is so unique that changes like this would not change a damn thing to the overall way the game is. Its smash. This game can even be put in a damn category. its some weird platform/fighter hybrid. Adding a feature like this would not change it to the point where its street fighter. You can't make that arguement anymore man.

WRONG. An item requires people to go after it, while a Super Meter does not require the same thing. They play completely differently because they're different.

And it's a Beat-'em-up. It's based around the exact same gameplay style.

You're still missing the point. Super Meters are restricted to Traditional Fighters because they defined that genre. If Smash is its own category, then it shouldn't have major gameplay changes from other categories. And yes, it would make it more like Street Fighter. You cannot deny this because it's true. Super Meters are one of the most defining parts of what Street Fighter is now. The argument is 100% valid.

@Kuma: Except they play based upon the same core mechanic. Except for Teams. Marvel VS Capcom was pretty much changing a bit of the Street Fighter engine to include more characters are slightly different buttons. X-Men VS Street Fighter is the origins of the MvC series. The gameplay isn't as different as you make it. Because it isn't.

 

[Deleted member]

What they need to include for poke balls and Assist Trophies, is the option to choose who comes out. The only exceptions to that would be Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi, as they are a rare occurrence.

I agree with this idea.

Having the option to do it would be great and it should have been done in Brawl so we could filter out the useless ATs.

Also, there seems to be some nice, quality discussions about game play. Which is a nice change of pace.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Okay, isee where you are coming from.

 

[Big-Cat]

It seems like people are forgetting that genres exist.

 

[Sunnysunny]

WRONG. An item requires people to go after it, while a Super Meter does not require the same thing. They play completely differently because they're different.

And it's a Beat-'em-up. It's based around the exact same gameplay style.

You're still missing the point. Super Meters are restricted to Traditional Fighters because they defined that genre. If Smash is its own category, then it shouldn't have major gameplay changes from other categories. And yes, it would make it more like Street Fighter. You cannot deny this because it's true. Super Meters are one of the most defining parts of what Street Fighter is now. The argument is 100% valid.

No, I see the point your trying to make. I just don't agree with it. At all.

Kuma thankfully did the work for me when it comes to this.

You wanna know something funny. Every thing Smash has is in some way found in other fighting games.

Smash has its own spin on the footsies in other fighting games where it's different enough to stand out, but similar enough so transitioning isn't too difficult.
Techniques like hovering, double jumping, etc. are found in other fighters. The only exception to this are the dodges and spot dodging.
None of the moves in Smash save for Ness and Lucas's PK Thunder and Flash are all that unique. You can find in equivalents in other games.

In short, Smash isn't all that unique as you think it is, but that's not a bad thing per se.

What it has for individual appeal, though, is that the K.O. method is entirely different. Although games like Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter have ringouts, but it's not every stage has that feature. If you take away the K.O. method and turn it into a strictly stamina based game, then it'd lose its unique appeal. Adding other FG mechanics will not inherently hurt the game's appeal.

On top of that, super meter is not the defining thing that makes street fighter, street fighters. its its footsie, its the overall low mobility, its the ability to combo, and its how important the corner is. Its a combination of all of things.

Same can be said of brawl, and adding on something OPTIONAL. Saying it would be street fighters is ******** dude. Should we remove stamina too? That too much like street fighter? Or the timer because street fighter and traditional fighters have those too?

Brawl is a hybrid game dude. Platformer mixed with fighting games. Its going to have platformer elements and its going to have fighting game elements. The SSE was alot like kirby games, but i'm not gonna take it out because it makes it too much like the kirby series.

 

[SwayneGang]

I agree with this idea.

Having the option to do it would be great and it should have been done in Brawl so we could filter out the useless ATs.

Maybe like this:

 

[OmegaXXII]

Wow, ensuing debate indeed.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Maybe like this:

Hey, that's nit a bad idea at all, seems like an item switch except it's with Pokeballs and AT's neat.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe like this:

That would work out pretty well if you ask me.

 

[Sunnysunny]

assist trophy switch thing

I approve.
*10approvals*

Wow, ensuing debate indeed.

The ensueing will not ensue for long. :<
Going to starbucks for coffeeeee.

I'll be back to ruin your thread with my *****ing debate more if its still going on. =w=

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, I see the point your trying to make. I just don't agree with it. At all.

Kuma thankfully did the work for me when it comes to this.



On top of that, super meter is not the defining thing that makes street fighter, street fighters. its its footsie, its the overall low mobility, its the ability to combo, and its how important the corner is. Its a combination of all of things.

Same can be said of brawl, and adding on something OPTIONAL. Saying it would be street fighters is ******** dude. Should we remove stamina too? That too much like street fighter? Or the timer because street fighter and traditional fighters have those too?

No, but it's a defining feature of it. It's part of what Street Fighter is now. And too may games have copied this little feature. They're becoming too similar to eachother with the same overused mechanic. Being overused can indeed be a bad thing too. May I note how many similar FPS's there are?

Also, Smash is a different kind of fighting genre and its gameplay is not like Traditional Fighters. So adding more Traditional stuff takes away from makes it Smash. Smash is its own system.

And stop saying Optional makes it an okay choice. That's ridiculous to say so. If we could choose to put on Fatalities with blood would that make it alright? No, of course not. That's why that argument doesn't work at all. You can apply that to any idea.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Maybe like this:
[COLLAPSE="Swayne's Assist Trophies"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Replace Knuckles with Team Chaotix and then it'll be all good.

 

[SwayneGang]

Replace Knuckles with Team Chaotix and then it'll be all good.

It's not my image. I found it on deviantart.

And it's not Omega's, either.

 

[Metal Overlord]

It's not my image. I found it on deviantart.

Oh my bad then bro


OMEGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

No, but it's a defining feature of it. It's part of what Street Fighter is now. And too may games have copied this little feature. They're becoming too similar to eachother with the same overused mechanic. Being overused can indeed be a bad thing too. May I note how many similar FPS's there are?

Also, Smash is a different kind of fighting genre and its gameplay is not like Traditional Fighters. So adding more Traditional stuff takes away from makes it Smash. Smash is its own system.

And stop saying Optional makes it an okay choice. That's ridiculous to say so. If we could choose to put on Fatalities with blood would that make it alright? No, of course not. That's why that argument doesn't work at all. You can apply that to any idea.

For the love of all that is poyo, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! It destroys Sakurai's image of how the game should be made. IT WON'T HAPPEN!!! Sorry for exploding, I'm just really sick of this argument on something Sakurai will never include.