New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

you probably just got footstooled.

Nope. I had him in the air, and he suddenly tripped. I have no problem writing it off as a glitch. They do happen, after all.

 

[Steam]

Nope. I had him in the air, and he suddenly tripped. I have no problem writing it off as a glitch. They do happen, after all.

then you probably just tripped on a platform that just was disappearing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

then you probably landed on a platform that just was disappearing.

Didn't happen either. I was on Final Destination when it happened.

 

[Steam]

Didn't happen either. I was on Final Destination when it happened.

then you're full of it

 

[Metal Overlord]

Mewtwo probably wouldn't be buffed if he was in brawl. game is balanced for casual play.

As my friend Johnknight said a while back, "good casual balance requires good competitive balance".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

then you're full of it

Or you're just wrong. Had it happen. Deal with it. Glitches happen all the time. Stop acting like the game can't have them. It's poor logic.

I pride myself in not lying. Once again, why the hell would I lie?

 

[Steam]

it probably just wasn't a real trip. glitches can be repeated.

@metal overlord- how does that even make any sense? casual and competitive play are completely different and involve using the characters at totally different depths.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As my friend Johnknight said a while back, "good casual balance requires good competitive balance".

True. But not many characters were buffed in the first place. In Casuals, Mewtwo is actually not that bad. Now, if the casual audience likes him the way he is... why buff him?

 

[Metal Overlord]

HyperFalcon has a point there, Steam.

It certainly isn't impossible for just the weirdest freak glitches to randomly happen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

HyperFalcon has a point there, Steam.

It certainly isn't impossible for just the weirdest freak glitches to randomly happen.

Sonic 2006 anyone?

Plus, glitches happen all the time in video games. I remember in Jungle Japes Melee, where my character was stuck in an invisible box where the "house" was. As in, the background. Not sure how it happened. One of those one-time glitches.

 

[Steam]

glitches can be repeated.

and I also find it funny how the two glitches happen to you but the rest of the world finds nothing about it.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@metal overlord- how does that even make any sense? casual and competitive play are completely different and involve using the characters at totally different depths.

You're overthinking this.

For casuals to actually have fun in a game, you need good balance in that game.

I don't think it's possible to have good casual play without good competitive balance, especially for a series like Smash that is geared towards both audiences.

Anyways, I just wanted to comment on that little part. Not the Mewtwo part.

True. But not many characters were buffed in the first place. In Casuals, Mewtwo is actually not that bad. Now, if the casual audience likes him the way he is... why buff him?

I think the opposite actually. Most casuals I know think Mewtwo sucks, while the competitive crowd don't think he's all that bad.

Anecdotal evidence, it may be. But hey, we all gotta start from somewhere.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're overthinking this.

For casuals to actually have fun in a game, you need good balance in that game.

I don't think possible to have good casual play without good competitive balance, especially for a series like Smash that is geared towards both audiences.

Anyways, I just wanted to comment on that little part.

Casuals can have fun in the game regardless of balance, though. It depends how you define casual anyway. Me? I just want to play as the character, and my only wish is that they're fairly true to their series. I don't care if they're a clone, as long as they inhibit traits from their original character.

I think the opposite actually. Most casuals I know think Mewtwo sucks, while the competitive crowd don't think he's all that bad.

Anecdotal evidence, it may be. But hey, we all gotta start from somewhere.

Opposite for me. I've never heard of the casual players ever think he was bad. Honestly, I've considered Bowser worse than him. And I'm a Bowser secondary in Melee. So it's somewhat subjective, I guess.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Casuals can have fun in the game regardless of balance, though. It depends how you define casual anyway. Me? I just want to play as the character, and my only wish is that they're fairly true to their series. I don't care if they're a clone, as long as they inhibit traits from their original character.

They can, I don't deny that. But my main point this is a series that is trying to appeal to everyone, core or casual. You need some kind of balance between the two, some kind of compromise, to be able to achieve that.

Opposite for me. I've never heard of the casual players ever think he was bad. Honestly, I've considered Bowser worse than him. And I'm a Bowser secondary in Melee. So it's somewhat subjective, I guess.

I would have to agree there, because most casuals I know don't like playing as Mewtwo. They say he that he sucks and that he's weak, has lame specials, etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They can, I don't deny that. But my main point this is a series that is trying to appeal to everyone, core or casual. You need some kind of balance between the two, some kind of compromise, to be able to achieve that.

Pretty much, I guess, because most casuals I know don't like playing as Mewtwo. They say he sucks, that he's weak, lame specials, etc.

I'm pretty sure Brawl was catered to Casuals due to the Courses and overall lack of semi-coherent balance. And once again, Casuals just want to play. Hardcores want to win. That's really the most reasonable definition. Balance really isn't needed for Casual play, since playing is the goal. Balance is needed for winning, though. Even grounds is important in competition.

And Mewtwo was actually one of the favorites amongst my group. Admittably, Link and Young Link got more attention, but just playing as a legendary alone was enough.

 

[Steam]

You're overthinking this.

For casuals to actually have fun in a game, you need good balance in that game.

I don't think it's possible to have good casual play without good competitive balance, especially for a series like Smash that is geared towards both audiences.

casuals play completely differently from competitive players.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I'm pretty sure Brawl was catered to Casuals due to the Courses and overall lack of semi-coherent balance. And once again, Casuals just want to play. Hardcores want to win. That's really the most reasonable definition. Balance really isn't needed for Casual play, since playing is the goal. Balance is needed for winning, though. Even grounds is important in competition.

And Mewtwo was actually one of the favorites amongst my group. Admittably, Link and Young Link got more attention, but just playing as a legendary alone was enough.

I dunno, I think casuals do have somewhat of a desire to win. I don't think they just want to press buttons and run around like what a lot of core Smashers think of them. Ultimately, you're right, they'll have fun regardless of whether they're very good at the game, or whether they win or not.

I'll concede defeat here. I'm somewhere inbetween a casual and competitive Smasher, so it's hard for me to know what either side thinks like.

Mewtwo is my favorite Pokemon ever, my most wanted Smash character ever and I don't really think he sucked that bad in Melee (I mostly dislike the fact that he was lightweight in Melee despite being 269 pounds in the game).

 

[Shorts]

I'm talking about the lack of costumes. They don't take a giant amount of time to make. Not referring to new modes whatsoever. Even Sonic's costumes sucked.

That's a pallete swap, and no. When you're calling Sakurai lazy, you're not talking about costumes. You're talking about Sakurai not trying hard enough and having a poor work ethic because he didn't add what you wanted. He made mistakes, yes. But he isn't lazy because he didn't add more costumes.

so much fallacy

Mewtwo probably wouldn't be buffed if he was in brawl. game is balanced for casual play. tier list means nothing

and mewtwo and lucario play... completely differently.

I gotta agree with Steam here. Where do you come up with "HE WOULD LIKE TOTALLY BE BUFFED!". I mean, that's just totally pulled from no where. I mean, some characters who sucked in Melee, suck in Brawl.

Agreed. We're making way too many assumptions.

Also I am I the only one who actually liked Brawl for what it was?

I like Brawl. I love Melee. That's just that.

Meh, I was fine with SSE. I find Brawl has the best single player out of any fighting game.

Yes, there are improvements to be made, but I think we're getting a little carried away.

We're not. It was bad, and not needed. It's one of the things I can say Brawl definitely could have done without. Sakurai focused so much on SSE when he should have been focusing on gameplay. With the amount of time/effort put into SSE and the product just to be a big MEH. That's not good, that's bad. Very bad.

, you're right, they'll have fun regardless of whether they're very good at the game, or whether they win or not.

If you're not having fun AS ANY TYPE OF PLAYER, you need to find a new videogame.

 

[Steam]

I also will say... brawl and melee aren't balanced all that horribly. outside of metaknight brawl is pretty balanced for a 37 character game. Melee naturally had the top tier balance... but half the roster was low tier... soooo...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I dunno, I think casuals do have somewhat of a desire to win. I don't think they just want to press buttons and run around like what a lot of core Smashers think of them. Ultimately, you're right, they'll have fun regardless of whether they're very good at the game, or whether they win or not.

I'll concede defeat here. I'm somewhere inbetween a casual and competitive Smasher, so it's hard for me to know what either side think like.

Mewtwo is my favorite Pokemon ever, my most wanted Smash character ever and I don't really think he sucked that bad in Melee (I mostly dislike the fact that he was lightweight in Melee despite being 269 pounds in the game).

I don't think he sucked either, he just wasn't strong enough overall.

@Shortie: They're beyond easy to program. So it wouldn't have taken up any time at all. "Eh, who cares" is really the only reason to have a lack of obvious costumes. And I don't mean Sonic's really bad ones. He was added late. Makes sense.

 

[Shorts]

@Shortie: They're beyond easy to program. So it wouldn't have taken up any time at all. "Eh, who cares" is really the only reason to have a lack of obvious costumes. And I don't mean Sonic's really bad ones. He was added late. Makes sense.

Sakurai is an amazing game designer, you're not going to get away with casualy throwing around him being lazy on my watch. He left out something you care about. He added something that someone else has been waiting for I'm sure. You're just nitpicking something small, and coming to major conclusions because of it. That doesn't warrent you calling him lazy.

SSBF seems to think he will be.

Well there you go.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I gotta agree with Steam here. Where do you come up with "HE WOULD LIKE TOTALLY BE BUFFED!". I mean, that's just totally pulled from no where. I mean, some characters who sucked in Melee, suck in Brawl.

SSBF seems to think he will be.

 

[Steam]

just because SSBF says something doesn't mean it's the truth.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Never implied I ever thought that, Steam. I don't think that, as a matter of fact.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai is an amazing game designer, you're not going to get away with casualy throwing around him being lazy on my watch. He left out something you care about. He added something that someone else has been waiting for I'm sure. You're just nitpicking something small, and coming to major conclusions because of it. That doesn't warrent you calling him lazy.
.

It sure as hell does. And I hate to tell you, but a lot of people were dissapointed in the lack of extra costumes for anyone but Wario. I can call him lazy if I want to. And frankly, there's no excuse for not giving other characters their full due, or even close. If he couldn't make Dr. Mario playable, he could've just put in the costumes. The fact that the data was already there proved it was super easy to program in the end. Delaying it a bit longer to add in the rest of the decent costumes could've taken a DAY. Once again, there's no excuse.

 

[Browny]

You're overthinking this.

For casuals to actually have fun in a game, you need good balance in that game.

I don't think it's possible to have good casual play without good competitive balance, especially for a series like Smash that is geared towards both audiences.

WAT

You realise the game is more or less 'balanced' for the way it was intended right, with all items on, all stages 4 player FFA timed matches?

'competitive' gamers strip the game down to its bare minimum and remove everything they think its 'unfair' and THEY are the ones who imbalance the game. Do you really think casual players give a crap about how broken MK's planking is, when they can triple kill with Ganon's final smash with ease?

Smash is most definitely not geared towards competitive gamers LOLOLOL no patches, banning of streaming at MLG etc. Its the textbook definition of a game with 0 competitive support from the developers.

 

[Steam]

I'd go as far as saying it has negative support.

 

[Shorts]

It sure as hell does. And I hate to tell you, but a lot of people were dissapointed in the lack of extra costumes for anyone but Wario. I can call him lazy if I want to. And frankly, there's no excuse for not giving other characters their full due, or even close. If he couldn't make Dr. Mario playable, he could've just put in the costumes. The fact that the data was already there proved it was super easy to program in the end. Delaying it a bit longer to add in the rest of the decent costumes could've taken a DAY. Once again, there's no excuse.

Cry me a freaking river baby boy!

The day Sakurai decides to cut adventure mode, you can call him lazy and not sound like a whiner who didn't get what he wanted.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Cry me a freaking river baby boy!

The day Sakurai decides to cut adventure mode, you can call him lazy and not sound like a whiner who didn't get what he wanted.

Nope, I can call him lazy for not giving us the best he could do with little work. Tough. Deal with it. And frankly? That'd be fine with me. Multiplayer is still where it's at in a Fighting game.

Moving on, though.

 

[Shorts]

Nope, I can call him lazy for not giving us the best he could do with little work. Tough. Deal with it.

"Hi yes, um Mrs. Falcon, you're son is crying uncontrollably in class because he got the blue marker when he wanted the yellow, can you calm him down?"


Deal with it. You got what you got.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Smash is most definitely not geared towards competitive gamers LOLOLOL no patches, banning of streaming at MLG etc.

1. If you're going to reply to me, don't reply in such a rude and condescending manner. That **** pisses me off, seriously.

2. Smash is geared towards everyone, Sakurai himself stated so. That includes but is not limited to, core gamers. End of story.

3. I am a casual player, so don't you think I have some kind of idea of how casuals think?

4. Wii has arguably the worst online system ever for a console. Of course there wouldn't be anything like patches, voice chat, DLC, etc.

5. Who says Sakurai hasn't learned from his mistakes in Brawl, anyway?

 

[Steam]

actions speak louder than words, and the actions of nintendo and sakurai... kinda have tried to counteract the entire existance of the competitive community. the guy put in tripping. nuff said.

and not all casuals think the same way... it's a rather large group of people and most casuals don't come on SWF.

and he's being condescending because people in this thread take themselves too seriously while having little idea of what they're talking about. at least that's why I tend to go out of my way to be like that in this thread.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

1. If you're going to reply to me, don't reply in such a rude and condescending manner. That **** pisses me off, seriously.

2. Smash is geared towards everyone, Sakurai himself stated so. That includes but is not limited to, core gamers. End of story.

3. I am a casual player, so don't you think I have some kind of idea of how casuals think?

4. Wii has arguably the worst online system ever for a console. Of course there wouldn't be anything like patches, voice chat, DLC, etc.

5. Who says Sakurai hasn't learned from his mistakes in Brawl, anyway?

2: I'm going to note that often "everyone" refers to being casual, as in anyone who wants to play for fun. So that's subjective what he means.

4: Agreed. Except Voice Chat is available on the Wii itself.

5: I hope he did. There was a huge amount of them.

 

[Shorts]

and he's being condescending because people in this thread take themselves too seriously while having little idea of what they're talking about. at least that's why I tend to go out of my way to be like that in this thread.

Which is fine, so long as you're willing to be hated. Look at me! No one likes me. I'm a big meanie head.

Sakurai said that to keep the fanboys happy. Theyll believe anything their melee-giving god tells them. Unfortunately his actions are the exact opposite and this game has no competitive support. Everything about it which allows the game to have any resemblance of competition was made by the players by themselves. Its no different to playing a game like Zelda competitively. The devs never intended there to be speedruns, but that doesnt mean its not possible to compete over it.

Good example. I was just about to bring up Megaman speedruns.

 

[Browny]

Sakurai said that to keep the fanboys happy. Theyll believe anything their melee-giving god tells them. Unfortunately his actions are the exact opposite and this game has no competitive support. Everything about it which allows the game to have any resemblance of competition was made by the players by themselves. Its no different to playing a game like Zelda competitively. The devs never intended there to be speedruns, but that doesnt mean its not possible to compete over it.

You being a casual doesnt change the fact that the game has no competitive support. If the reason for that is because of Wii's poor online, that doesnt change the fact that it has ZERO competitive support from the developers.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If Starfy gets in the next Smash Bros.(which he probably will, considering the international release of The Legendary Starfy), there is no doubt in the world that he would team up with Kirby. I can't think of a reason that they wouldn't.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Now that I see where you're coming from, I guess I can agree with you now.

And Steam, tripping in general isn't all that bad. It's random tripping that really needs to be taken care of.

I dunno of people like that either but I'm not one of them. I'm one of the most laid-back, jokey posters you can find. I know when I've been outdebated or bested. Probably because I'm still relatively new, but whatever.

Not all casuals think the same, but in general, most have a few similarities in the way they think.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Wait, people think Tripping is beyond terrible? Random, okay, fair enough. But regular via a Banana Peel? Isn't that the point of the Item/Move. And I thought I was nitpicky.

And I just don't think we should say what every casual thinks. Blanket statements are bad, yo.

 

[Kantrip]

What do you guys think of Prince Fluff in ssb4. Fun character with good moveset potential. I'd want to see him for a kirby rep, because KEY was such a unique game in artistic design (obviously it would get a stage, too).

 

[Johnknight1]

Agreed. Although I have been wondering what the tier list would look like if we gave each Pokemon their own separate spot.

The same thing as Zelda/Sheik in Melee and Brawl-unpredictable.

However in Brawl both are very underpowered, and when worked with together are slightly underpowered. If they were both slightly under average alone, but slightly above average together this would be awesome with Zelda/Sheik, or all the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon.

New Trailer? More hype. Hype is good.

More discussion too. I approve.

I'm hyping Golden as being worthless again...

But yeah-expect a trailer... within the next year.

It sure as hell does. And I hate to tell you, but a lot of people were dissapointed in the lack of extra costumes for anyone but Wario. I can call him lazy if I want to. And frankly, there's no excuse for not giving other characters their full due, or even close. If he couldn't make Dr. Mario playable, he could've just put in the costumes. The fact that the data was already there proved it was super easy to program in the end. Delaying it a bit longer to add in the rest of the decent costumes could've taken a DAY. Once again, there's no excuse.

That's the graphic designers being busy with other stuff (the SSE), not Sakurai's fault. Costumes ultimately comes later for them, after stages, story mode, single-player modes, the original outfits, and having to deal with the Wii's severe limitations.

Granted, you are right; the design of extra outfits was lazy. I think Smash oughta have a 8-12 alternate outfit minimum. In Brawl every character had 6 minus the Pokémon reps (Pika had 4, the rest 5), Sonic (only 4 due to being a late addition), and Wario (who had 12). On top of that, there oughta be color palette options, and options for different shades of a color for teams (ie: Mario can wear light blue or dark blue).

Trust me, Sakurai works his a** off on Smash. He used to work 20 hour days on Melee nearly every day, yet was able to work only somewhat shorter days on Brawl. I dunno about you, but 20 hours a day is more than I would be willing to put in on any game. On top of that, Sakurai has learned from his mistakes in each games. He is also finally is taking some pressure off himself and some control away from himself, and instead putting some of the pressure and control on other people's shoulders as well.

Sakurai also left the "competitive development" up to the players (balancing aside and L-cancelling, too)-something of which other developers dare not do. I dunno about you, but that's turned out pretty good, considering any of the smash games aren't broken as heck. So far, Sakurai has done fantastic, but other developers need to step up and take some pressure off him.

It's kinda like watching Dan Marino carry some crappy Dolphins team and getting all the crap for them losing because he doesn't have enough talent. Well, hopefully this time Sakurai finds all the talent he needs (he is looking for talent in job offers, after all).