New Rankings! Pennsylvania Player Finder and Power Rankings (10/31/07)

[SwiftBass]

wow from what ive heard and seen dope was like a coin flip. **** or get *****. I think Tuar was up there b4 u mow because hes been ridiculously active beyond comprehension and when ppl think PA smash they usually think Cactus, @ least the ppl I talk to do. I'm not on the panel or anything thats just my guess

 

[takieddine]

Cactuar looked like my Marth vs. Alaon's (not good). He probably had a reason(excuse) for that, he wasnt himself...

and oh yeah, time to show everyone how nasty I am at this game...

 

[A-Laon]

Cactuar looked like my Marth vs. Alaon's

I play Marth?

Good god, I'm gay!

 

[xyt]

we should rank ppl up to 1000 : D
THEN EVERYONE IN PA WILL BE HAPPY!! YAY!!

 

[pockyD]

how would ranking through 1000 make anyone happy

mow i'm sure we've been over this before but the main reason he's above you is that he enters the major events while you don't actually ever seem to enter the tournaments -_-

cape, good we know you're better than that, so start playing more again

 

[xyt]

i just saw that crew battle.
he wasn't um.. taken out THAT badly.. @_@)..

 

[A-Laon]

we should rank ppl up to 1000 : D

It would be just as meaningful as our current list after the top 2. Let's do it.

 

[Nakamaru]

So im actualy going to do this because i realize i still have that stupid crap under my name.

AIM: llxeell | email: Roninxee@yahoo.com
412-897-9398(Cell) | Age 17
Location: Sewickley PA
Mains: GnW, Fox
Secondaries: Pretty much everyone else

 

[Mogwai]

It would be just as meaningful as our current list after the top 2. Let's do it.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

 

[A-Laon]

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

That after Cactuar and Mow, this list is mostly unorganized and insubstantial crap.

 

[pockyD]

how so

let's hear you propose some changes

 

[A-Laon]

I'm not in the mood for fruitless debate right now. I'll bother posting my ideas when I feel like getting grilled.

 

[pockyD]

well apologies if we don't enjoy having our hard work ridiculed by someone who likely just has some baseless assumptions that aren't satisfied by our research

edit: basically, if you have legitimate arguments, they will be considered for the next list. I've already had a few discussions with mow that brough some things to light and will be in consideration; it's not a closed process, unless you make it so by refusing to give input

 

[Mogwai]

Also, Mow debates that

1. Cactus
2. Mow

is correct. If disagreement is a sign of worthlessness, even top 2 is worthless. I'm just saying that if you want to completely demean the work we put into this list (believe it or not, it was work), you need to back it up or prepare to get an earful from the people who did put the work in.

 

[Scar]

I'm not in the mood for fruitless debate right now. I'll bother posting my ideas when I feel like getting grilled.

p.s. The phrase "insubstantial crap" when used in reference to something created by someone you're talking to will always spark debate. So next time get in the mood before being a jerk.

 

[Mogwai]

Wow, Scar, I too hate baseball cards!

In other news, we should play smash again with velocity. CF 3 for alls are too good.

 

[takieddine]

My chimpokomon are better than yours!!!

Mine are ranked numba 1, and i will give you happy feelingsu, ooooh!

 

[Mogwai]

I got Shoe!

 

[The Cape]

Now that I think about it, why is Vagabond so low?

He is top 5 IMO.

And where is Pakman?

 

[Mogwai]

Pakman is 7th if I remember correctly and if Vagabond is top 5, none of us panelists saw him playing like it. At shippensburg, Vagabond was apparently playing poorly, but that's the only experience PockyD or myself had with him, which made judging him difficult. Pakman, Velocity and Swiftbass were the most difficult clump of players of roughly equal skill to sort out. The three of them could honestly have been sorted in any order and it would've been acceptable. In the end, those 3 players specifically discussed it and came up with the ordering you see now.

 

[pockyD]

pakman can't seem to decide if he wants to spell his name with a c or k

 

[Nakamaru]

It seems as if past things arent taken into account with this power ranking. From what i've seen and herd. Cape beat most of PA, but just because he hasnt played in 1 month means he is 11th. What about everything at mow's fest, or other TGP tournaments before that.

What else made him go down so far?

 

[Renth]

It seems as if past things arent taken into account with this power ranking. From what i've seen and herd. Cape beat most of PA, but just because he hasnt played in 1 month means he is 11th. What about everything at mow's fest, or other TGP tournaments before that.

What else made him go down so far?

more than likely people argue his inactivity which i don't agree with. Zach told me he's going to go around to PA tourns.

 

[Velocity]

It seems as if past things arent taken into account with this power ranking. From what i've seen and herd. Cape beat most of PA, but just because he hasnt played in 1 month means he is 11th. What about everything at mow's fest, or other TGP tournaments before that.

What else made him go down so far?

when did cape beat most of pa

 

[Velocity]

i dont think it would take mow much to get ahead of cactuar but cactuar did go to oc3 there and placed 13th

yay at cape coming to stuff

 

[Deleted member]

pocky you know my stance on tournaments and my placing with cactuar. it's too bad I can't compete with cactuar if I wanted to, since I don't have an extra thousand dollars to blow in cali.

cape has beaten triad_prodigy and javi and myself in the past (read: within the past year) in tournaments, and is nowhere close to 11th. Same with vagabond. Cape and vagabond are the only 2 PA players to have taken tournament matches off me in 2007.

 

[Velocity]

yeah mow everything is about you talk about yourself some more like when we tried to discuss the rankings

 

[Nakamaru]

Wow velocity... Do my eyes deceive me or do you not know what a "." is.

 

[Deleted member]

when we tried to discuss rankings it went something like this:

first you said it was based on skill, so I said ok, it goes something like this

cactuar
mow
javi
triad_prodigy
thecape

then we discussed lower rankings, and somewhere in there it was changed to "this is based on tournament results" so I said ok it goes like this

mow
cactuar
javi
pacman on crack

and no one else really goes to tournaments and are insignificant

then you said it was based on recent tournaments and I said ok it's like this

mow/cactuar

no one else cause no one else goes to tournaments. cactuar has placed decent at the years major tournaments, cataclysm 3, pound 2, and now I can add FC diamond and OC3. Overall, though, I've still won 7 tournaments this year. You can't argue with that. Cactuar says we're even, I think cactuar is slightly better overall, but until you've made a statement that clearly defines what you're basing the list from, I can't give you conclusive answers. The first post has tournament results as the primary factor, but I don't see it at all based on the order of the list.

when you make the rankings discussion less ********, I will join. As will Cactuar. Me and Cactuar agree on everything, who should be where and why and who should beat who. He told me it would be wise for me to steer clear of the rankings list, I suppose he was right.

Don't get nasty with me, I can get very nasty back.

 

[takieddine]

<3 drama...

 

[vagabond]

Cape, are you back in PA? I heard you were in West Palm Beach, FL. We need to play again soon.

 

[xyt]

ranking drama is teh best!!! YAY!!

 

[Mogwai]

ranking drama is teh best!!! YAY!!

No, Iceburgh drama is the best. Ranking drama's probably fine when you're not a panelist, but when you are, it's not.

when we tried to discuss rankings it went something like this:

first you said it was based on skill, so I said ok, it goes something like this

cactuar
mow
javi
triad_prodigy
thecape

then we discussed lower rankings, and somewhere in there it was changed to "this is based on tournament results" so I said ok it goes like this

mow
cactuar
javi
pacman on crack

and no one else really goes to tournaments and are insignificant

then you said it was based on recent tournaments and I said ok it's like this

mow/cactuar

no one else cause no one else goes to tournaments. cactuar has placed decent at the years major tournaments, cataclysm 3, pound 2, and now I can add FC diamond and OC3. Overall, though, I've still won 7 tournaments this year. You can't argue with that. Cactuar says we're even, I think cactuar is slightly better overall, but until you've made a statement that clearly defines what you're basing the list from, I can't give you conclusive answers. The first post has tournament results as the primary factor, but I don't see it at all based on the order of the list.

when you make the rankings discussion less ********, I will join. As will Cactuar. Me and Cactuar agree on everything, who should be where and why and who should beat who. He told me it would be wise for me to steer clear of the rankings list, I suppose he was right.

Don't get nasty with me, I can get very nasty back.

<rant>I love how your entire discussion here is based on "we said it was based on _______ so you told us the rankings and we didn't agree" I love how no one else's opinion matters to you, it really makes you a wonderful part of a panel. You want to tell people what you think, based on the rankings, go right ahead, but forgive us if we don't all drop to our knees and just accept whatever list you give us. We tried discussing the reasons we had for our ratings and because we weren't just giving in to your list, you basically told us we were ******* and left.

And you're saying you and Cactuar would be wonderful on a panel because you agree about everything!? Do you know what panels are for? They're to spark discussion and to ask the questions that need asking and to have the arguments about where people should be. If everyone agrees that's a sign of a worthless panel, because the list isn't gaining anything from the interaction. You might as well just post your own thoughts on rankings because nothing changes when everyone agrees.

It's just funny to me that the perfect panel for you is just people who sit around agreeing with you...</rant>

 

[A-Laon]

I like this new approach: shut up and refuse to debate and everybody exemplifies the source of my argument for me.

 

[Velocity]

when we tried to discuss rankings it went something like this:

first you said it was based on skill, so I said ok, it goes something like this

cactuar
mow
javi
triad_prodigy
thecape

then we discussed lower rankings, and somewhere in there it was changed to "this is based on tournament results" so I said ok it goes like this

mow
cactuar
javi
pacman on crack

and no one else really goes to tournaments and are insignificant

then you said it was based on recent tournaments and I said ok it's like this

mow/cactuar

no one else cause no one else goes to tournaments. cactuar has placed decent at the years major tournaments, cataclysm 3, pound 2, and now I can add FC diamond and OC3. Overall, though, I've still won 7 tournaments this year. You can't argue with that. Cactuar says we're even, I think cactuar is slightly better overall, but until you've made a statement that clearly defines what you're basing the list from, I can't give you conclusive answers. The first post has tournament results as the primary factor, but I don't see it at all based on the order of the list.

when you make the rankings discussion less ********, I will join. As will Cactuar. Me and Cactuar agree on everything, who should be where and why and who should beat who. He told me it would be wise for me to steer clear of the rankings list, I suppose he was right.

Don't get nasty with me, I can get very nasty back.

i guess you just dont pay any attention to ne thing do you

ok so you know so much about tourny results right ok tell us every tourny every player on the rankings has attended in the last 4 months their placing who they lost and won against also in relation to other players that attended that same tourny , i mean cause we talked about that sorta thing

and i think he told you it would be wise to steer clear for other reasons

we look at tourny results and then from there we factor in skill and what all the other panelist have seen as far as playing, we are changing the list again ne way if you read so if theres people so ****ed up on the list like you said then they shouldnt have a problem changing their spot on the list, granted cape could be higher and he can do this by beating a couple people (and this is where mow goes cape beats me this percentage of matches), if you want your spot to be changed so badly do something about it if other people have problems with were they are then can do something about it as well its not like the 4 of us are against everyone if 4 people from either sides of the state can come up with something then maybe its not completly wrong like what you say , you can get as nasty as you want

 

[Deleted member]

double posted, whoops

 

[Deleted member]

I love how no one else's opinion matters to you, it really makes you a wonderful part of a panel. You want to tell people what you think, based on the rankings, go right ahead, but forgive us if we don't all drop to our knees and just accept whatever list you give us. We tried discussing the reasons we had for our ratings and because we weren't just giving in to your list, you basically told us we were ******* and left.

And you're saying you and Cactuar would be wonderful on a panel because you agree about everything!? Do you know what panels are for? They're to spark discussion and to ask the questions that need asking and to have the arguments about where people should be. If everyone agrees that's a sign of a worthless panel, because the list isn't gaining anything from the interaction. You might as well just post your own thoughts on rankings because nothing changes when everyone agrees.

It's just funny to me that the perfect panel for you is just people who sit around agreeing with you...</rant>

ok wesley, I'm going to tell you the flaw in that logic.

Panels are NOT there for discussion and debate. The point of a panel is to determine one uniform opinion which holds the most truth. What you're saying in contrast is that you created the panel, sparked the discussion and came to a compromise for a problem that wasn't even really a problem to begin with. And even if you had done so in a productive manner, you have a second flaw behind your reasoning which you can't do anything about.

You have not played everyone in PA. The only people to have played everyone in PA are myself, thecape, renth, and cactuar, in that order. Myself and zach more than renth and cactuar, since many in pittsburgh have not played cactuar and renth just now told mne that he has never played against triad_prodigy.

By the way, in regards to nothing changes when everyone agrees: there's nothing to change. Everyone in PA already knows who the top people are and are not. You can tell since several people were alarmed at the rankings of velocity, cape, and vagabond in particular.

I did not call anyone a ******, I said the discussion was ********. Which it was. As is your list, which is a reflection of your inexperience as a player, something that you will personally need to improve upon before you swing your unwieldy sword of authority which you and the other panelists have assigned yourselves.

velocity, I'd argue you, but after reading what you posted twice, I see you left me no point to argue. lol.

edit:

[01:47] Mark: please edit your post
[01:47] Mark: and put this in it
[01:47] Mark: well i've expressed my position to you at least. As far as i seen the majority of their arguement is in ignorance. I met you, cape, kaotical, joker, and magus about 2 years ago and i had no idea what i was in for. At the time PA was considered one of the worst states in the country and who could blame them for being so terrible? themselves. There was a time i asked you who had the best what (character wise) in PA you sent me back a list with your name by almost every character atleast 95% of the list from what i remeber. Now sometime after The Cape and I had become good friends he taught me this game down to a science everything he knew. Still even a year after you and Cape beat everyone who's name wasn't Javier who at the time was considered one of the top in PA. At the time back when i played Cactuar the first time and all he did was run around and f smash. Now today, it seems a new breed of smashers have appeared in the smash scene in PA. As it seems still today the only person who gives you and cape trouble is Cactuar who has done very well for himself in the very short time he's been playing. These new smashers are good no doubt about it but they are terrible at making power rankings list on which in my opinion shouldn't be involved not because they aren't good at the game because they haven't been around as long as everyone else. Everyone tries to consider recent events fine sure that's grand but it seems no one knows what to base the list off of. I'd say the person who makes the list should be someone who's played everyone in the state and has a firm basis on peoples skill and potential. You, Cape, Joker, and Magus have been around PA even before i started playing the game which is why i respect each of you greatly and for your knowledge of playing everyone in the state countless times. I believe the new pittsburgh smashers are ignorant but it's not their fault it's not that they don't travel enough i just don't think they understand the basis that should go into a power rankings system. Example they sit and argue on what the list should be based off of which is a good thing to do. However if you've been playing in PA as long as I have you should know there should be no debate what so ever. I thought everyone knew where everyone stood in PA i guess i was terribly wrong.

 

[Nakamaru]

I think we need to stay away from having a board of panelists until we can have at least 1 person from each region ( west, middle, and east) who has played everyone. What is causing so much trouble is the fact that the people on the panel haven't played everyone enough to create an accurate list. All we can really hope to do right now is make power rankings for East PA and West PA, and over time, as we play each other more, merge them into one list. Each region picks a panelist and whenever they meet at a tournament they make a point to play people who want to move up, or observe MM, tournament matches, and possibly friendlies.

From what i see the only time we can have any kind of list is after Mow's second smashfest. Pocky, Wes, and Velocity arent really good panelist because they have played people from the other region maybe once or twice. Thats really not enough to get a base of how skilled someone is. We really need to wait alot more until we have a list cause we have seen what chaos this one is causing.

 

[Velocity]

You can tell since several people were alarmed at the rankings of velocity, cape, and vagabond in particular.

once again we explained that ive had good placements in 7 tournies in the last 3 months lets see 1 being mlg new york i got 17th the same place as cactuar(not even close to him in skill though) and that was by being 3rd in my bracket i beat kip 2-0 who beat bum also alex triad and m2k along with 5 other smashers in my bracket top 2 advanced, smashtaltity 3 i got 9th and if you look at who was there u would realize thats easliy a good placement and i got screwed by brackets cause i was the only one with a bi and then zang showed up last mintue and i had to fight him first round and make my way through losers, then theres nepa got 5th there many pa players it was like cactuar m2k reik tripod,

cape as i said hasnt gone to any recent tournies or has impressed anyone as far as skill except mow and renth who isnt even in pa anymore and i highly doubt cactuar agrees with you on this so until i hear from cactuar

and vagabond i think could be higher but/ theres people that arent impressed with him yet / its not like he would be put higher then 8 or 9 could he be that high sure im mean between another mows and elk tournies

a list is going to piss people off no matter what its not like its not going to be changed ever

 

[pockyD]

From what i see the only time we can have any kind of list is after Mow's second smashfest. Pocky, Wes, and Velocity arent really good panelist because they have played people from the other region maybe once or twice. Thats really not enough to get a base of how skilled someone is. We really need to wait alot more until we have a list cause we have seen what chaos this one is causing.

Mow has just as little time playing against a lot of PA (granted a different group of players, but still a significant number) as we do. Of course he has a ton more experience against the others, but i don't think the flat "lack of experience" is a good argument. If mow can rank people based on one event, mowfest in april (which i pretty much agree would have to be done for an initial list because of the lack of other statewide events in recent history), why can't we do the same?

Also, keep in mind we HAVE tried to find a varied panel, but central PA has shown little to no interest (mow got frustrated with us and quit very early in the process, komo declined saying he was probably too biased, and no one else has been on with any regularity in the past few months)


the people i have no experience with are javi, triad prodigy, and cactuar. I don't think you can say that aspect is affecting the list seeing as they're all top 5 and no one is really contesting their place in that grouping (and in fact I was the one that brought up that there is a legitimate mow vs cactuar debate to the rest of the panel).

The people i've only played once are: vagabond, el_komosutro. Even then, I had them both ranked at around the same place as everyone who's played him multiple times (read: the other panelists). Yes, I understand that central PA holds vagabond on a higher level and he (along with the cape) were two of the toughest placings we had to make (and ones we are ready to change at a moment's notice once we see them play up to par again). But it's no more fair for mow to rank west PA than for me to rank vagabond.

We understand the first isn't isn't the greatest thing in the world or the most accurate, but we have pretty much already set a date as early as reasonably possible for the 2nd list (right after komo's tournament) such that we can quickly consider all feedback on the first list. Before we put it out there, there was little to no interest in having a list period, but now that we have, everyone has their thoughts, and that's EXACTLY what we were looking for