New discovery: Infinite jumping with most characters! (STOP POSTING, USE NEW THREAD)

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I remember something like this being brought up on the DK boards about his Dair or something like that

but anyway so far I have been able to do it with Mario's Bair once so the timing on this is extremely difficult

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I wonder how this would effect characters with wonky second jumps like Ness/Yoshi?

 

[Seison]

Charizard can do this too. I've done it with his fair, but it's much easier with his u-air. this vid isn't mine, but it shows it once or twice. I've been able to do it almost 10 times in a row, but the timing is ridiculous, so it's very hard to string together different types of aerials.

I'm pretty sure that what I'm doing is the same technique that is being discussed in this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong though. I can't get it to work with Marth, so his timing is perhaps more difficult.

edit: lol, forgot the vid. http://youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU

edit 2: I've been experimenting with it a bit more, and it's actually not too hard for charizard to fair across FD and then bair across the other way without landing. I wish i had some kind of video equipment so I could make a better vid than the one i linked to, but alas, I do not.

I can't wait to see if this has any use for Falco

 

[SnatchForFree]

I don't think it's going to be that useful. Bowser can do it the easiest with side b and it's not used for much other than mindgames.

 

[marcus0103]

I just tried this and it's a lot easier to do this if you fastfall to a tap jump instead of jumping with X or Y.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I just tried this and it's a lot easier to do this if you fastfall to a tap jump instead of jumping with X or Y.

That's probably because when you use the control stick to jump, the game inputs jump the whole time that you're moving the control stick, whereas when you press X or Y you only input it on one frame.

I think that's the reason why stick jumping is much more popular in HRC than in VS. in Melee.

Can someone answer my question 6 posts above?

 

[Turbo Ether]

Only one frame of input? I doubt this will amount to much if the timing is that strict.

 

[nightSN]

if this is possible with b attacks, think how wavebounce would be like now?

 

[-Aether]

This is huge. Can other characters do it? If so, is the timing different for certain characters?

Testing needs to be done! Go SWF!

 

[Wave⁂]

Only one frame of input? I doubt this will amount to much if the timing is that strict.

SWD had one frame precision; phanna virtually mastered it.

 

[Nurotasama]

I've been able to do this very rarely with Lucario's Dair after practicing for an hour. I'll have to work on it over the next week and see if I can get better at it.

To people who have been able to get it more consistently (take that lightly) than others: is it more preferable to view the moment of attack and jump spatially or under the concept of time?

 

[Seison]

Ok, I have a couple updates.
Squirtle can do this with his fair, bair, and uair.
Toon Link can do it with his bair AND his fair!!! It's awesome with TL
Falco can do it with his fair, dair, uair, and bair. I was able to do 2 full hopped fairs across FD, and then a bair without landing.

Also, it IS easier to do the ISJ if you use the tap jump. This is confirmed.

A side note, this technique seems more useful for attacks that DO NOT auto-cancel. for an example of this, do the ISJ with Falco's dair. It sucks, you can do it faster by landing and then jumping again, however, in the case of his fair, you can avoid the landing lag altogether by doing a bair or dair immediately after fair before you hit the ground.

MUCH more testing to be done. It's likely that there are some aerials for the above characters that I missed, or couldn't execute. I know Ivy has some, but i forget which ones now.

One final note: Not only does each character having different timing for this technique, but EVERY AERIAL has a unique timing. this will certainly not be something you can do consistently with every character. At least that's the way it looks at this point.

 

[Trillion]

Hey everyone. The Jort pretty much mastered this thing in about 5 minutes worth of practicing it. I got it down pretty well too and so I've uploaded a video of the Jort using it with Marth's fair. For those of you who are unsure of how to tell the difference, watch the animation of the jump. Marth flips around rather than just jumping straight up when he does his second jump and there are blue rings around his feet. As was mentioned above this is not only easier with tap jump turned on, but it is ridiculously easier.


Marth Infinite Second Jump with Forward Air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_NzJvRsVlo

I will be adding in a video of Sonic doing it with his bair as soon as I get it edited and uploaded.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

this is amazing. This is the kind of ATs I've been waiting for o help morph Brawl gameplay. Hopefully this should not just speed up the game but make combos more viable. I'll start testing now.

 

[Fenrir]

SWD had one frame precision; phanna virtually mastered it.

That`s true. And then there are things like Luigi`s rising Tornado where you have to push the button some ridiculous number of times in one second for maximum effectiveness. I think this new technique will be possible to master.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Hey everyone. The Jort pretty much mastered this thing in about 5 minutes worth of practicing it. I got it down pretty well too and so I've uploaded a video of the Jort using it with Marth's fair. For those of you who are unsure of how to tell the difference, watch the animation of the jump. Marth flips around rather than just jumping straight up when he does his second jump and there are blue rings around his feet. As was mentioned above this is not only easier with tap jump turned on, but it is ridiculously easier.


Marth Infinite Second Jump with Forward Air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_NzJvRsVlo

I will be adding in a video of Sonic doing it with his bair as soon as I get it edited and uploaded.

Excellent. It makes sense that it would be easier with tap jump on.

 

[Trillion]

Here is me doing this with Sonic. I was able to get it quite a few times with his bair at the end of the vid. Look at the blue rings the are emitted around Sonic's feet. Those are the indicator of the second jump (In case you are having trouble knowing if you are doing it right, the blue rings around the feet are an indicator for EVERY character that the second jump is being done).


Sonic Doing The Infinite Second Jump With Back Air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaKo3UVALiE

 

[goodoldganon]

My roommate is playing Twilight Princess or I'd do some testing now. In theory I should be able to do this with C. Falcon's u-air right? The juggling possibilities of this tech are nuts. It sounds like it'll take a lot of practice, but it's doable.

 

[RDK]

This would be hella useful to the characters that have at least some b@stardized comboability left. However, as it's been stated, this takes M2K-like precision, so I'm not exactly sure if it'll become as viable as it's made out to be.

I suppose I could do some experimentation with Kirby or Mario's b-airs. This could--in theory--turn out to be useful.

 

[SonicLucario]

Here is me doing this with Sonic. I was able to get it quite a few times with his bair at the end of the vid. Look at the blue rings the are emitted around Sonic's feet. Those are the indicator of the second jump (In case you are having trouble knowing if you are doing it right, the blue rings around the feet are an indicator for EVERY character that the second jump is being done).


Sonic Doing The Infinite Second Jump With Back Air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaKo3UVALiE

Can he do it with other moves?Nair?Fair?

 

[Seison]

Ok, I have a few more things to say about this technique. First, while it definitely WILL have it's uses, I don't think it's going to be as useful as we first thought. At least not with everyone. The reason is this:

The ISJ can be done without executing any aerial whatsover. If you'd like to see for yourself, pick ness, and continuously jump, fastfall, and as you land hold up on the control stick. This will buffer a tap jump, and ness will automatically use his second jump from the ground. It's easy to see if you're doing it right because his second jump has huge gold rings while his first jump is just a simple hop.

That established, let's consider the pros and cons of such a mechanic. It just happens to be good with Ness actually, because if you do the ISJ and immediately execute a bair, ness will do a nearly grounded bair, followed by a huge rise. the gold rings will not appear, however his actual movement mirrors that of his second jump. It'd be great if you could do up a video of this magnificentmarth, because it looks really cool.

However, this has the disadvantage of taking away your second jump right from the get-go. So naturally, in some cases, it would be better to actually land, and do you attack from your first jump, preserving your second jump.

It seems to have different properties than the infinite jumps of boswer, luigi and charizard. While these characters obviously stay airborne while performing the infinite jump, they have to execute an attack in order for it to work. For instance, pick bowser, and do his ridiculously easy infinite claw jump. Now, try to jump, fastfall and hit up on the control stick. Bowser just lands like the big fat turtle he is. I may be completely wrong, but i think the ISJ uses a different game mechanic than luigi and bowser's infinite jump.

This just in: The ISJ is officially AMAZING with ness (i havent tested Lucas) Ness performs aerials with the momentum from his second jump right off the ground. I talked before about his bair, but now I want to mention his dair. if you ISJ a dair into say, Capt Falcon, ness will smash him right from the ground, the Capt will pop upwards, and ness will be carried by his second jump momentum right to the level of Captain Falcon, or somewhere in his immediate vicinity depending on your opponents %age. There are many more weird quirks to doing this, so experiment, and report. His fair has some nice properties as well.

 

[Trillion]

Can he do it with other moves?Nair?Fair?

I'm going to start working on how to do this with Sonic's fair, bair, and uair.


It really isn't very hard. It's nowhere near needing "M2K-like Precision" at all. I literally just tried this for the first time today and put these videos together and had them edited and uploaded to youtube in under a half hour. It shouldn't be that hard to learn unless I am doing something different, which I don't believe I am.


Seison, I'll see how soon I can get up a vid of ness's bair ISJ like you said. I'm about to go eat lunch, so it may take me a bit, but I'll get it up asap. By the way, I am doing this correctly right? I'm slightly unsure since so many people are saying how hard it is, while I seriously got it so fast that I'm wondering if I am doing something completely different.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Well, it could be the tap jump. I didn't use tap jump, so the timing was seriously hard to do consistently. I'll try it with tap jump soon.

 

[Seison]

Ok I just did some testing with Lucas, and the effect is definitely different, but still awesome. As with Ness, if lucas executes an aerial immediately after the ISJ, he will perform the aerial at the same level as with a normal short hopped aerial, except now, he pops upward with the momentum of his second jump, while still executing the aerial. When he finishes the aerial, lucas pauses in the air, like a very short hover, and then he is free to perform another attack. A great use/example for this is (again i used Capt Falcon) doing an ISJ, followed immediately by a dair. Luacas will rise, hitting capt falcon with ALL the hits of the dair, spiking him to the stage, and then he'll be able to do anything he wants from his hover position. A falling nair, or another d-air, or whatever. seriously, it's awesome.

 

[Ekaru]

magnificentmarth: I think you ARE doing something different, judging from your videos. I think you're double jumping right off the ground. Watch this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU

Also watch the bowser video from earlier, which I'll edit this post with soon. Basically, you're double jumping right off the ground after landing. What's in the vid at the end is doing it without any land clouds. I've tested it, and yeah.

But it's not that hard to do once you get the hang of it. Just takes practice, like wavedashing. Most people had trouble doing a perfect wavedash at first, but after a lot of practice, bam! Second nature. This'll probably be the new technique to learn that takes practice. I think this'll make life a lot easier. Nowhere NEAR M2K precision, actually. More like L_canceling consistently, but a little harder. Not TOO hard though.

Seison: Nah, as shown earlier, Bowser can do this with other moves too. <_<; So I think almost everyone can do it, but many will have to do an attack to use to buffer it, as Samurai Panda explained. I better re-post that vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p1wx0bz_6FQ

Oh, and I was referring to an earlier post, not the post you posted before I was done typing where you mentioned Bowser not doing it without an attack.

EDIT: And, as the video shows, it just takes practice, since this Bowser player seems to be able to chain a couple different moves easily. =P

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Here is me doing this with Sonic. I was able to get it quite a few times with his bair at the end of the vid. Look at the blue rings the are emitted around Sonic's feet. Those are the indicator of the second jump (In case you are having trouble knowing if you are doing it right, the blue rings around the feet are an indicator for EVERY character that the second jump is being done).


Sonic Doing The Infinite Second Jump With Back Air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaKo3UVALiE

You're landing. It looks a bit like doing the infinite second jump because you do an Instand Double Jump right after, but you can see the dust kicked up from landing. In this video, you see Bowser doing it properly, and he does not get the dust from landing when he does it properly.

EDIT: Ekaru ninja posted before me.

 

[Seison]

magnificentmarth: I think you ARE doing something different, judging from your videos. I think you're double jumping right off the ground. Watch this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU

Also watch the bowser video from earlier, which I'll edit this post with soon. Basically, you're double jumping right off the ground after landing. What's in the vid at the end is doing it without any land clouds. I've tested it, and yeah.

But it's not that hard to do once you get the hang of it. Just takes practice, like wavedashing. Most people had trouble doing a perfect wavedash at first, but after a lot of practice, bam! Second nature. This'll probably be the new technique to learn that takes practice. I think this'll make life a lot easier. Nowhere NEAR M2K precision, actually. More like L_canceling consistently, but a little harder. Not TOO hard though.

Seison: Nah, as shown earlier, Bowser can do this with other moves too. <_<; So I think almost everyone can do it, but many will have to do an attack to use to buffer it, as Samurai Panda explained. I better re-post that vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p1wx0bz_6FQ

Oh, and I was referring to an earlier post, not the post you posted before I was done typing where you mentioned Bowser not doing it without an attack.

EDIT: And, as the video shows, it just takes practice, since this Bowser player seems to be able to chain a couple different moves easily. =P

Yeah, I see what you're saying. However that's why I think the ISJ is different from what Bowser, Charizard, and Luigi can do. In magnificentmarth's vids, he DOES land, however, what we're doing with tap jump executes quicker than smashing x/y twice. For example, Take Lucas vs. Metaknight. if you tap x/y twice and try to dair Meta, it's much harder to hit him because you still have the few frames of first jump that are executed. With the ISJ, the second jump appears right from the ground with no delay.

so with that said, I think what magnificentmarth is doing in his vids has some good uses, like ive described with lucas and ness, but that it is ultimately not the same as what bowser charizard, and luigi can do. I would be very interested to see more character perform infinite jumps without touching the ground. If characters can do that using the method described by Samurai panda, I'll be more than satisfied, but all I can seem to get to work with other characters is the immediate second jump.

HOLD IT! (Phoenix Wright style) I stand corrected. I do believe there is more to this technique than I thought. Ok, here it is:

I still that that what magnificentmarth is doing in his vids is useful
I still think that what bowser, Char, and luigi are doing is different
BUT, I think that more characters than those three can do the infinite jump WITHOUT landing.

Falco can do it. I said this earlier but I must have been too foolish to remember. falco can do two full hopped rising f-airs, followed by another aerial, WITHOUT LANDING. can we get a video of this? It doesn't seem nearly as easy as bowser and luigi's but the fact is, it's another official infinite jump.

 

[Gazebo]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. However that's why I think the ISJ is different from what Bowser, Charizard, and Luigi can do. In magnificentmarth's vids, he DOES land, however, what we're doing with tap jump executes quicker than smashing x/y twice. For example, Take Lucas vs. Metaknight. if you tap x/y twice and try to dair Meta, it's much harder to hit him because you still have the few frames of first jump that are executed. With the ISJ, the second jump appears right from the ground with no delay.

so with that said, I think what magnificentmarth is doing in his vids has some good uses, like ive described with lucas and ness, but that it is ultimately not the same as what bowser charizard, and luigi can do. I would be very interested to see more character perform infinite jumps without touching the ground. If characters can do that using the method described by Samurai panda, I'll be more than satisfied, but all I can seem to get to work with other characters is the immediate second jump.

Personally, it seems to me that if you land on the ground (except for as you mentioned, with ness or lucas' second jumps), then a short hop would be a far better thing to do. IMO, doing this is just setting yourself up to be gimped, because you cant jump again.

Correct vs incorrect videos of marth doing this edited into OP.

 

[Trillion]

So wait, am I doing it wrong or right? If I'm doing it wrong, then maybe someone can come up with an application of what I DID do lol. I'll try seeing if I can't get it higher off the ground then those and I'll repost with some more vids if I'm able to get it.

 

[Seison]

Alright. Falco AND Fox can do a REAL (infinite?) jump. the reason I'm hesitant to say infinite, is because so far, I've only been able to tack on one extra jump with each of these characters. I'm going to test some more, but heres what I've found with these two:

Falco: as I've said, if timed properly can do 3 aerials without touching the ground. Rising fair, rising fair, jump->any aerial

Fox: Fox can rising fair, falling fair, jump->any aerial

This seems very hard to do with these characters. Ill test some others.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Ok guys, I've figured out whats going on. This "almost" ISJ that you've been doing with tap jump is not the ISJ at all! What is happening is that tap jump is, for some reason, instantly double jumping as soon as you land. With tap jump off I can do the landing animation straight to the second jump animation by tapping the jump button twice. But the ISJ does NOT have a landing animation. How can you tell the difference between the ISJ and instantly doing the second jump? 2 things: The speed of the jump and the clouds. If there are clouds when you land, then you aren't doing the ISJ, you are simply buffering in two jumps upon landing (and tap jump will, for some reason, buffer both jumps in automatically).

Also, that video of Bowser doing the infinite jump was much different! What has been discovered now is not the original infinite jump. Look at the video again. Bowser is interrupting the klaw with the jump, he isn't buffering the klaw into attacks. And every time that Bowser does an aerial, he does the klaw right before he lands, and jumps out of the klaw again. He is NOT doing the ISJ, sorry for the confusion.


And remember, like I said earlier, you can do the second jump upon landing once from any aerial, but in order to determine if an aerial is actually capable of the infinite second jump, then it has to be done more than once in a row. This is because you need to be able to buffer the jump in after the aerial is done during your second jump, which has a different height than the normal jump, thus different timing for the aerials.

 

[bigman40]

All the characters can do it as an infinite, but you have to time the attack to end just before you're landing. You can't do it whenever you feel like because the move doesn't register it like it would near the ground. I did it with yoshi twice in a row w/o touching the ground, but I had to time the the atks to end near the ground. So every character with a auto-cancel can do a infinite.

 

[Seison]

Samurai Panda, are there clouds when the ISJ is done correctly? because what I was just doing with Fox and Falco had no clouds at all, it seems like a real infinite jump, like Charizards.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Samurai Panda, are there clouds when the ISJ is done correctly? because what I was just doing with Fox and Falco had no clouds at all, it seems like a real infinite jump, like Charizards.

The true ISJ has no clouds.

 

[Blad01]

Ah ah, now i understand Sakurai we he said : "Brawl will be more aerial"

Tricky man !

Seriously, i need to test it with Falco absolutely, that could be amazing.

 

[acv]

this is getting confusing.so there are two different techniques.one is just buffering the second jump and the other one is bowser's klaw thing/.

 

[bigman40]

this is getting confusing.

It's not. Jump, Double jump, then do your aerial so that you finish the move just before landing, and as the atk is ending, jump. If you did it right, then you'll DJ again, but if not, then you'll get the clouds from landing.

 

[kamekasu]

Also, that video of Bowser doing the infinite jump was much different! What has been discovered now is not the original infinite jump. Look at the video again. Bowser is interrupting the klaw with the jump, he isn't buffering the klaw into attacks. And every time that Bowser does an aerial, he does the klaw right before he lands, and jumps out of the klaw again. He is NOT doing the ISJ, sorry for the confusion.

Anyone who tried it when it was first discovered could have told you that. And even if you didn't know how to do the technique, notice how he shines yellow right before he performs an aerial.

While this technique (ISJ) is interesting, I think its utility is greatly hindered by the difficulty of execution. First of all, it requires that you full hop the aerial, making it difficult to space and actually land the attack. Second of all, if it only works with autocanceled aerials, you'd be better off shorthopping the aerial and repeating rather than risking this timing.

To the people who say "This is harder than wavedashing and L-canceling:" Obviously. L-canceling and wavedashing are so useful because they are so easy to execute, but only difficult to apply in a match. Even SWD is different because there is some (albeit small) indication of when to input the left-right command.

 

[Trillion]

ok i've been doing this again and I'm starting to get it right every once in a while. but the most i've been able to do in a row is 2. So i still need some practicing before I get this down well enough that i can post a vid of it.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Apparently.
I think it works similar to Bowser infinite double jump and Sonic's infinite double jump. The animation of the move must be done before the double jump can be done again.