New Dice Rule

[adumbrodeus]

^ Unfair on players yet to get gold dice.

Unfortunately, I'm being practical here, you will get a great deal of resistence to applying this retroactively, probably too much to ever get it passed, and there probably are some reasonable arguments as well.


If you want this to happen, it needs to NOT be retroactive.

 

[Swiss]

I don't care either way. I can't see that many Vets really getting pissed over it, but I understand players not truly confident in their ability would suggest exactly the same as you.

I'm not saying you're bad, you understand, merely that you're making precisely the same suggestion that I would expect a gold dice player with little real skill to make.

 

[KevinM]

I mean I only don't care because in Gheb's example I still get gold dice

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't care either way. I can't see that many Vets really getting pissed over it, but I understand players not truly confident in their ability would suggest exactly the same as you.

I'm not saying you're bad, you understand, merely that you're making precisely the same suggestion that I would expect a gold dice player with little real skill to make.

Swiss... I'd think you'd know me better then this. I'm more then willing to volinteer to submit my performances for review under the new standards regardless of whether or not it's retroactive. This is not about me. Even if Hilt's game doesn't survive it, I think one more scum game (when i have time to devote to the game) is all I'd need for an MVP anyway. Essentially, your argument is a guilt by association fallacy, just because they would doesn't mean their reasons are the same.


This is about the ****storm I KNOW will happen if we make it retroactive quite frankly. I have expirience in politics at a number of levels, I know how to negotiate and I know about interest group. If nothing else this would create a massive break in dgames and substantial drama when people have their prior performances judged below par after the fact.


I want this done, I want it done quickly, and I don't want this to get the entire vet dgames community at each other's throats. Whether my personal performances get rejudged is irrelevant, cause frankly, my pride matters a ****load less then the health of the dgames community as a whole.


That's why I want it done this way.

 

[KevinM]

If retroactively taking dice away would cause some kind of rift in the dgames community, then there clearly is a problem WITH the community.

Most of us are here to just play mafia.

And or make satirical comments at most things that come their way. (KevinM )

 

[Swiss]

Swiss... I'd think you'd know me better then this. I'm more then willing to volinteer to submit my performances for review under the new standards regardless of whether or not it's retroactive. This is not about me. Even if Hilt's game doesn't survive it, I think one more scum game (when i have time to devote to the game) is all I'd need for an MVP anyway. Essentially, your argument is a guilt by association fallacy, just because they would doesn't mean their reasons are the same.


This is about the ****storm I KNOW will happen if we make it retroactive quite frankly. I have expirience in politics at a number of levels, I know how to negotiate and I know about interest group. If nothing else this would create a massive break in dgames and substantial drama when people have their prior performances judged below par after the fact.


I want this done, I want it done quickly, and I don't want this to get the entire vet dgames community at each other's throats. Whether my personal performances get rejudged is irrelevant, cause frankly, my pride matters a ****load less then the health of the dgames community as a whole.


That's why I want it done this way.

I guess obvious troll wasn't quite obvious enough.

I applaud the honesty in your post, even if it was totally unnecessary.

 

[adumbrodeus]

If retroactively taking dice away would cause some kind of rift in the dgames community, then there clearly is a problem WITH the community.

Most of us are here to just play mafia.

And or make satirical comments at most things that come their way. (KevinM )

Dgames people have a lot of pride in their abilities, mostly because of the effort you have to put into their games. Telling them their effort wasn't worthwhile AFTER telling them it was will make a LOT of hurt feelings.

I guess obvious troll wasn't quite obvious enough.

I applaud the honesty in your post, even if it was totally unnecessary.

To make it an obvious troll you should've gone with insulting my abilities directly instead of implicitly insulting my confidence in my abilities, which looked like an argument technique to shame me into supporting it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Dgames people have a lot of pride in their abilities, mostly because of the effort you have to put into their games. Telling them their effort wasn't worthwhile AFTER telling them it was will make a LOT of hurt feelings.

Could care less about people QQing over a game tbh.

 

[ranmaru]

But Gheb I really tried hard in my Newbie ; _____________ ;

 

[adumbrodeus]

Could care less about people QQing over a game tbh.

Lol, I care, but I recognize that doing something good is more important then hurt feelings.


The larger concern however is the potential of driving a large segment of the community away or never getting the reform passed depending on how large and vocal the group is. I don't think either of those are acceptable outcomes.

 

[Swiss]

To make it an obvious troll you should've gone with insulting my abilities directly instead of implicitly insulting my confidence in my abilities, which looked like an argument technique to shame me into supporting it.

That was precisely the point. Insulting your ability holds little real amusement for me. A more subtle approach such as my one yields greater returns on smarter people. I now recognise that I should have, in fact, insulted your ability.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

We can still do it for the future, the problem with applying it retroactively is that it will cause massive amounts of drama which would make it difficult to put the system in place in the first place.

Leave existing, apply it to new games, saavy?

People aren't complaining about it, so I don't see where the drama comes from.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That was precisely the point. Insulting your ability holds little real amusement for me. A more subtle approach such as my one yields greater returns on smarter people. I now recognise that I should have, in fact, insulted your ability.

I thought you were trolling lol.


Anyway, if it WAS intentional as a rhetorical technique it was too obvious, work on it swiss-scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

But Gheb I really tried hard in my Newbie ; _____________ ;

I stand ninja'd, but seriously, newbie games are yet another argument.

 

[ranmaru]

I stand ninja'd, but seriously, newbie games are yet another argument.

Yeah. I was kidding though. I just got MVP because I was kinda alone (cuz of seph) but town made mistakes.

Like I played really bad there (like a newbie would)

It's thanks to Vandie, actually. He pressured me but let me go cuz he thought "Ah, he's just a newbie" and thought I was town the whole time. xD

 

[Swiss]

I thought you were trolling lol.


Anyway, if it WAS intentional as a rhetorical technique it was too obvious, work on it swiss-scum.

I'd better take some notes. I'm always getting lynched as scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Idk, I still think Dices are handed out waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easily. 50% of the games games should not give a dice PERIOD. A dice should be given to an OUTSTANDING performance only. At this rate they're just worthless and you might as well take them away for bad performances.

Dear lord this can't be more true.

I'd better take some notes. I'm always getting lynched as scum.

Oh snap you tryin em?

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'd better take some notes. I'm always getting lynched as scum.

Lol, this is more rhetoric then mafia, trust me, I'm a politicion, I know rhetoric.

*Winning smile*

 

[Rajam]

This may sound an awful idea at first, but what about giving dices based on the number of games played (without replacing out) instead of performance? like 10 games = red dice, 20 games = gold dice... this would eliminate people playing individualist and trying to be the hero in a game that has great value on playing as a team...

¿? discuss

 

[Beat!]

Another idea is to implement a system similar to the Debate Hall.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This may sound an awful idea at first, but what about giving dices based on the number of games played (without replacing out) instead of performance? like 10 games = red dice, 20 games = gold dice... this would eliminate people playing individualist and trying to be the hero in a game that has great value on playing as a team...

¿? discuss

No. They're a reward for good play.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Dice can't do everything at once, guys. Here's my suggestion.

Keep dice as MVP awards, although I'd suggest more tiers, as well as making them harder to get. (I don't think newbie games are really MVP-worthy, and a lot of normal games aren't either.)

However, I do like Rajam's idea, but it should be slightly different. Instead of doing it as "number of games active in", make it more of a "percent of games active in", and use a different icon from the dice.

As far as "good play rewards" go, that's more subjective. I wouldn't be opposed to having something like a 1-5 star rating, but how exactly could you accurately rate someone's play? Not to mention there'd probably be hard feelings based on who got what rating and stuff like that. (You could try win percentage, but often your faction wins/loses and it's not your actions that caused it.)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nich, you want way too much.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I know, but I can still dream. XD

Besides, it's less my personal wishlist, and more a commentary on various ideas put forth in this thread.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

A commentary that accomplishes nothing since the proposed solution is completely unfeasible.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Or you can get a panel of players to judge a game.

I'd say Soup, EE, and Ranmaru should be the judges for MVP.

Discuss.

 

[adumbrodeus]

A commentary that accomplishes nothing since the proposed solution is completely unfeasible.

Ryker, stop being so hard on everyone please. If people are afraid of tossing out ideas then we'll never get good ones. Especially since an idealist idea that is unfeasable can potentially be developed into a feasable version.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd say Soup, EE, and Ranmaru should be the judges for MVP.

Discuss.

*doesn't see karthik_king on the list*

*shakes head and leaves thread*

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, stop being so hard on everyone please. If people are afraid of tossing out ideas then we'll never get good ones. Especially since an idealist idea that is unfeasable can potentially be developed into a feasable version.

So DGames should get multiple posting bits that don't stack over one another. MvP should be both hard to get and easy to get.

Yeah about that,...

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Or you can get a panel of players to judge a game.

I'd say Soup, EE, and Ranmaru should be the judges for MVP.

Discuss.

i'd love to...ow my pride.

 

[Beat!]

Another idea is to implement a system similar to the Debate Hall.

No thoughts on this?

I know it might be a terrible idea, but some opinions would be nice :3

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I might if I knew what debate hall's system was, yet no one has explained that.

 

[M.K]

The activity idea is a bad one.
I've never replaced out of a single game in my entire career, and I STILL don't think I deserve dice for that.
I definitely wasn't an MVP. You can be active and still suck.

 

[X1-12]

I think he is just suggesting a different postbit to represent good activity, regardless of what happens to the dice system

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Ryker
Just because a proposed solution doesn't work doesn't mean it can't be a springboard for something that does work. Quit being so pessimistic.

@MK
What I personally meant was that it would be nice to have a different marker to represent how active people usually are. (This might prevent more inactivity-fests like the first two days of BIM3).

lol, X1 ninja.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm not being pessimistic. It did nothing because it leads in the wrong direction. I don't WANT to springboard in that direction.

 

[Asdioh]

Nah, this is a bad idea. The dice aren't meant to be a sign of consistent accomplishment, but a sign of accomplishment in a game. By saying they can be removed for bad performance, it's changing them from a sign of winning an MVP into some kind of rating system. The dice are fine as they are: A signifier of an outstanding performance in a given game. No matter what they do in the future, they will always hold onto their mvp from the game and/or games they earned them from, and as such the dice will always hold the same meaning: that at some point in their Dgames career, they won an MVP.

Mentosman summed it up there.

Imagine someone gets dice but then they don't play ever again for fear of losing them. ಠ_ಠ

Also lol @ dice. :droom: get @ my level

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I might if I knew what debate hall's system was, yet no one has explained that.

You apply for access to the proving grounds.

If you do well there, you're let in.

 

[Beat!]

Yeah.

Basically, those who already have dice or whatever it is we're gonna use will be in charge of allowing other players to get them.

To get dice, you apply for them in a specific thread, and the players who already have dice (DGames Pros or w/e we might call them) decide whether you should get dice or not, and they do so by giving their opinion on the player, and then voting "+1" or "-1". If the result is positive, the player gets dice. If not, he/she doesn't.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No. They're not used in nearly the same way.