New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Bleck]

He's a clone of Big Boss. Friesnchip is talking about literal clones rather than moveset clones.

D'oh!

That's like making Shadow a Mr. Game & Watch clone.

Black Shadow play like Donkey Kong.

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

[Darkmask]

Why are we discussing Shadow again? Don't we have enough clones already with Snake and Mewtwo?

If we're going to be discussing Sonic characters in the first place, shouldn't Tails or Knuckles have a much higher priority AND be more unique than making a clone character of a literal clone character? I might be sounding a bit forward, but I'm certain this Shadow discussion has happened three or four times already, while nothing has come of the more important Sonic characters.

Nothing is stopping you from talking about someone else, but I see no issue with us revisiting Shadow as an option. Besides, Clones are cool!

 

[Darkmask]

I see that Skullkid has an entry, but how about Zant from Twilight Princess?

We need more villains, and he could have quite an array of interesting moves with his Twilight Powers.

 

[Shin F.]

I see that Skullkid has an entry, but how about Zant from Twilight Princess?

We need more villains, and he could have quite an array of interesting moves with his Twilight Powers.

Skull Kid > Zant, plus he's still a magic-using villain.

 

[Darkmask]

Skull Kid > Zant, plus he's still a magic-using villain.

Well ok, let's talk about Skullkid/Majora then.

I suppose one of his gimmicks could be summoning parts of Majora, like for instance, launching tendrils/tentacles from his mask for grapples/tethers. And also he can hover. But other than that, what other moves are there really? I mean he's a trickster, and such, but he doesn't really have too many attacks on his own, since the battle was more about Majora's Incarnation/Wrath really.

I mean at least with Zant, he has magic and physical moves, cause you actually fight him.

 

[Shin F.]

Well ok, let's talk about Skullkid/Majora then.

I suppose one of his gimmicks could be summoning parts of Majora, like for instance, launching tendrils/tentacles from his mask for grapples/tethers. And also he can hover. But other than that, what other moves are there really? I mean he's a trickster, and such, but he doesn't really have too many attacks on his own, since the battle was more about Majora's Incarnation/Wrath really.

I mean at least with Zant, he has magic and physical moves, cause you actually fight him.

Full movesets have already been built for Skull Kid. I'll look for the last one.

 

[Darkmask]

Full movesets have already been built for Skull Kid. I'll look for the last one.

Hey, at the very least, maybe Zant Mask Skullkid could be his alt costume!

That or Skull Mask Skullkid

Or maybe the super creepy Twilight Princess Maskless Skullkid

 

[Shin F.]

Found it. This was a complete Skull Kid moveset made by the people in the thread. (Mainly Fortress, Spire, and myself.)

Spoiler

Skull Kid
Movement
Entrance - Skull Kid, appearing lifeless on the ground, rises in an unsettling manner while cackling. Arms would raise first, as if raised by a puppeteer's strings.

Idle - He stands while looking around and occasionally shaking his head / mask back and forth.

Walk - Tiptoes like some kind of prankster, as an homage to Skull Kid's normal behavior.

Run - Skull Kid dashes on the ground, in the style of TP Skull Kid.

Jumps - Agreed with the hover, but think he should spin with whimsy when he jumps. Let's not forget, the Mask may be in control, but it does let Skull Kid take the reigns most of the time.

Standard Attacks
Jab - Borrowed from Lucas, with Darkness instead of PSI.
F tilt - Hits with his lantern from Twilight Princess, dealing a small bit of fire damage.
Up Tilt - Does a backflip/bicycle kick of some kind.
Down Tilt - I don't know, throws jacks or some **** at the ground. Tacks, maybe. In all honesty, a tentacle sweep from the mask could be cool, and would serve as a launcher.

N Air - The same aura that surrounds Skull Kid when he calls the Moon down could surround him here, dealing multiple weak hits, similarly to Mewtwo.
F Air - A tentacle whip, similar to Ivysaur.
B Air - A mule kick of some sort, or even a dance pose of some kind. Let's do the dance pose.
D Air - Stomps multiple times at the ground, kind of like how Snake does it, but Skull Kid would clearly be mad, bro.
U Air - A magical flash above him, kind of like Zelda.

Smash Attacks
F Smash - Unleashes a blast from his horn.
U Smash - Skull Kid's iconic scream.
D Smash - Tentacle whips to both sides.

Special Attacks
Neutral B - Blow Dart - burst of three darts, ala Ocarina of Time. Low damage, minor hitstun, major annoyance.

Side B - Majora's Wrath - Majora uses its tentacles to whip the opponent while drawing them closer in. Could work in a number of different ways, perhaps as a combo type move similar to Dancing Blade or Double-Edge Dance.

Down B - A deku nut, which would be pulled and thrown like Link's bombs, only they'd explode if they hit the ground (and do minor damage and knockback if they make contact with a player) and stun opponents in the blast zone, like Ivy's down-b. This would give Skull Kid access to the powerful AGT and glidetoss tech.

Up B - Teleport. I think Skull Kid could simply warp, just like Sheik or Zelda. Probably more like Zelda, with more powerful hitboxes with a shorter distance traveled.

Final Smash - The Moon comes crashing down. Modified PK Starstorm?

Grab
Grab - Mask tentacles tether/grab
Pummel - Squeezes with the tentacles/burns with the torch (at the same time)
U Throw - Does a handstand and kicks upward, propelling you up like Sheik's U-throw
D Throw - Dances on the opponent, like Ness
F Throw - A whip throw, like Ivy
B Throw - Crosses arms and casually tosses the opponent up and behind with the tentacles. Mad style. Mad casual.

Taunt 1 - Tatl and Tael fly around him a moment, then hide in his hat.
Taunt 2 - He takes out the Ocarina, blows it a sec, then laughs and puts it away.
Taunt 3 - He floats in midair with his arms crossed while laughing.

He could also potentially have a Mewtwo-styled hover.

I like the idea of him having a Zant-inspired alt costume, though. Perhaps he could even wear the Fused Shadows for an alt.

 

[Darkmask]

For his Taunt 3, maybe instead of that, it should be him just turning his body and staring straight out at the player, like he did when Link first discovered him playing with his Ocarina, would be a game reference and also kinda creepy! Skullkid is staring into your soul!

 

[Shin F.]

For his Taunt 3, maybe instead of that, it should be him just turning his body and staring straight out at the player, like he did when Link first discovered him playing with his Ocarina, would be a game reference and also kinda creepy! Skullkid is staring into your soul!

Well, that taunt was also a reference to when you first meet him, right before he turns you into a Deku Scrub.

Spoiler

 

[Cool Blue]

PS: if you are going to put a picture this size, I recommend putting a spoiler on it.

Srry I didn't know it was going to be so big.

 

[MLGF]

Now that everything has calmed down I would like to bring up my long shot character, as it seems we all have one, that I think would be preferable.

I've brought him up beforehand, but generally it was rough and not very polished. As these things have become better, I've desired to update this.
Let's start

Why Black Knight
* The high demand for villains
* The lack of slow using characters that wield weapons is a slot unfilled. People push for Sworddorf, but that is the only roster decision that could offend some players, so I believe that this is by far the best option.
* Generally popular character within the Fire Emblem and Smash franchise, competed with Lyn, Roy, and Sigurd for a slot within the fanbase during Brawl development
* Has the same teacher as Ike, so giving him Ike's base and cloning some moves would actually make sense. At the same time, the Black Knight is far more refined and has a smoother style, offering plenty of independent movements.
* Many of the sound effects from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance could fill sound effects. Black Knight has the fortunate fate of being a character already with a voice actor, and his quotes actually fit the Smash environment. To add to that, his voice sounds filtered enough that it wouldn't be impossible to imitate. His movement and sound effects can come from the distinctive noise that comes when he walks, as well as skill effects such as when he activates eclipse. To add to this, all of Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, and Radiant Dawn, were fully dubbed in Japan. So if there's a limit in the American games, they can just use the Japanese Black Knight and it would not be out of place either.

Spoiler: Proof dawg

If you jump to 2:08, Black Knight gives two extremely good victory lines that are easy to play back to back.

The playstyle
Black Knight certainly looks like a slow character, but he's deceptively fast in cutscene.

Spoiler

At the same time, his movements are extremely slow in game. I'm not entirely sure why there is such an inconsistency, but let's roll with it.
The Black Knight should have a slow walking speed, but keep a running speed that's a little slower then Ike.
At the same time, his kill moves in the games generally consist of extremely long startup while his basic hits are quite a bit quicker/smoother, so he can alternate between rough kill moves and smooth fencing depending on the ferocity of the attack.

Movements
The Black Knights standard position is extremely relaxed. He stands still when not moving, and keeps his sword in an equally relaxed downward position.
Crouching, the Black Knight entered a kneeling position. Resting his sword arm on the raised knee while having his other arm on the ground. His sword is facing behind him during the crouch.
Jumping, the Black Knight jumps quickly and falls extremely fast. His jumps are rather short as well.
Walking, the Black Knight moves slowly while his armor makes his distinctive clink sound.
Running... look at the video posted in playstyle.

Basic Ground Attacks
Now then, let's start

A: Black Knight does a basic jab, identical to Ike
AA: Second Jab, identical to Ike
AAA: Black Knight extends his arm further into an open palm to push the opponent away.

F-Tilt: Black Knight does a quick ground to upwards swipe.
D-Tilt: Black Knight, still kneeling, does quick jabs with the hilt of his sword. It reaches out rather far and comes out quickly, but it is far shorter then a large part of his moves
U-Tilt: Black Knight once again takes a lesson from Ike and raises the sword rather similarly.

Dash Attack: Black Knight dashes and raises the sword to his shoulder then lashes it down.

Front Smash: The Black Knight raises his sword arm behind him, then unwinds to slam the sword into his foe.
Down Smash: Black Knight raises his sword, my dear friend Hakumen will show ay how it's down.

Spoiler: THE END HAS COME

Up Smash: Ike's Upsmash seems appropriate.

Aerials
Black Knight, like the other Fire Emblem characters, hasn't really fought in the air. The obvious is that due to his armor, he should fall extremely quickly... but everything else is pretty up for grabs.

Nooch: Black Knight performs a sex kick.
Back Air: Black Knight emulates Marth, having a long backwards cut that covers a large amount of the area behind him.
Forward Air: Black Knight copies Ike once again, having a large lunge attack.
Down Air: Black Knight copies Ike... again. The attack comes out later, but he pulls it back slightly faster, making it less punishable.
Up Air: The Black Knight does a straight upward stab, similar to Link.

Grabs
Black Knight's grab range is about as long as Marth's, leaving him with a lot of room to control the area around him.

Basic Grab: The Black Knight reaches far in front of him with his arm
Running Grab: The Black Knight tries to reach far in front, and takes extra steps trying to grab his opponent. He has more active frames, but is more punishable.
Pummel: Black Knight does quick strikes at the opponent's chest
Down Throw: Black Knight grabs the opponent and slams them into the ground so hard that the opponent rises straight up.
Up Throw: Black Knight launches the opponent lightly up in the air, allowing for follow ups.
Forward Throw: Black Knight kicks the opponent away.
Back Throw: Black Knight kick the opponent away BUT BACKWARDS

Specials
Up Special: Warp Power. The Black Knight has a magical seal similar to the intro of Ike/Marth/Roy. In this time he remains still, or falls slowly if in the air, and moves to another location, depending on player input, when B is released. It has a limit of being slightly shorter then Zelda's recovery.
Forward Special: Quick Draw. I was thinking of something else, but screw it. Quick Draw is amazing.
Standard B: Luna, Black Knight holds his sword and charges, he releases the blade in a slash similar to Marth. Like in the games, it pierces enemy defense
Down Special: Counter. It's tradition.

Final Smash:
Eclipse is the only right choice here.

Spoiler

Edit: OH SHOOT, I FORGOT TAUNTS AND VICTORY SCREENS!

Taunts

Taunt 1: Black Knight's victory animation as seen in the eclipse video
Taunt 2: Black Knight points his sword in front of him, challenging the opponent.
Taunt 3: Black Knight raises his sword between his eyes, then swipes down and back into his standing position.

Victories
1) Black Knight sticks his sword into the ground and says "Is that it, no challenge?"
2) Black Knight's back faces the player and he warps away from the stage
3) Black Knight raises his sword to the air and it shines.

 

[Cool Blue]

Now that everything has calmed down I would like to bring up my long shot character, as it seems we all have one, that I think would be preferable.

I've brought him up beforehand, but generally it was rough and not very polished. As these things have become better, I've desired to update this.
Let's start

Why Black Knight
* The high demand for villains
* The lack of slow using characters that wield weapons is a slot unfilled. People push for Sworddorf, but that is the only roster decision that could offend some players, so I believe that this is by far the best option.
* Generally popular character within the Fire Emblem and Smash franchise, competed with Lyn, Roy, and Sigurd for a slot within the fanbase during Brawl development
* Has the same teacher as Ike, so giving him Ike's base and cloning some moves would actually make sense. At the same time, the Black Knight is far more refined and has a smoother style, offering plenty of independent movements.
* Many of the sound effects from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance could fill sound effects. Black Knight has the fortunate fate of being a character already with a voice actor, and his quotes actually fit the Smash environment. To add to that, his voice sounds filtered enough that it wouldn't be impossible to imitate. His movement and sound effects can come from the distinctive noise that comes when he walks, as well as skill effects such as when he activates eclipse.

Spoiler: Proof dawg

If you jump to 2:08, Black Knight gives two extremely good victory lines that are easy to play back to back.

The playstyle
Black Knight certainly looks like a slow character, but he's deceptively fast in cutscene.

Spoiler

At the same time, his movements are extremely slow in game. I'm not entirely sure why there is such an inconsistency, but let's roll with it.
The Black Knight should have a slow walking speed, but keep a running speed that's a little slower then Ike.
At the same time, his kill moves in the games generally consist of extremely long startup while his basic hits are quite a bit quicker/smoother, so he can alternate between rough kill moves and smooth fencing depending on the ferocity of the attack.

Movements
The Black Knights standard position is extremely relaxed. He stands still when not moving, and keeps his sword in an equally relaxed downward position.
Crouching, the Black Knight entered a kneeling position. Resting his sword arm on the raised knee while having his other arm on the ground. His sword is facing behind him during the crouch.
Jumping, the Black Knight jumps quickly and falls extremely fast. His jumps are rather short as well.
Walking, the Black Knight moves slowly while his armor makes his distinctive clink sound.
Running... look at the video posted in playstyle.

Basic Ground Attacks
Now then, let's start

A: Black Knight does a basic jab, identical to Ike
AA: Second Jab, identical to Ike
AAA: Black Knight extends his arm further into an open palm to push the opponent away.

F-Tilt: Black Knight does a quick ground to upwards swipe.
D-Tilt: Black Knight, still kneeling, does quick jabs with the hilt of his sword. It reaches out rather far and comes out quickly, but it is far shorter then a large part of his moves
U-Tilt: Black Knight once again takes a lesson from Ike and raises the sword rather similarly.

Front Smash: The Black Knight raises his sword arm behind him, then unwinds to slam the sword into his foe.
Down Smash: Black Knight raises his sword, my dear friend Hakumen will show ay how it's down.

Spoiler: THE END HAS COME

Up Smash: Ike's Upsmash seems appropriate.

Aerials
Black Knight, like the other Fire Emblem characters, hasn't really fought in the air. The obvious is that due to his armor, he should fall extremely quickly... but everything else is pretty up for grabs.

Nooch: Black Knight performs a sex kick.
Back Air: Black Knight emulates Marth, having a long backwards cut that covers a large amount of the area behind him.
Forward Air: Black Knight copies Ike once again, having a large lunge attack.
Down Air: Black Knight copies Ike... again. The attack comes out later, but he pulls it back slightly faster, making it less punishable.
Up Air: The Black Knight does a straight upward stab, similar to Link.

Grabs
Black Knight's grab range is about as long as Marth's, leaving him with a lot of room to control the area around him.

Basic Grab: The Black Knight reaches far in front of him with his arm
Running Grab: The Black Knight tries to reach far in front, and takes extra steps trying to grab his opponent. He has more active frames, but is more punishable.
Pummel: Black Knight does quick strikes at the opponent's chest
Down Throw: Black Knight grabs the opponent and slams them into the ground so hard that the opponent rises straight up.
Up Throw: Black Knight launches the opponent lightly up in the air, allowing for follow ups.
Forward Throw: Black Knight kicks the opponent away.
Back Throw: Black Knight kick the opponent away BUT BACKWARDS

Specials
Up Special: Warp Power. The Black Knight has a magical seal similar to the intro of Ike/Marth/Roy. In this time he remains still, or falls slowly if in the air, and moves to another location, depending on player input, when B is released. It has a limit of being slightly shorter then Zelda's recovery.
Forward Special: Quick Draw. I was thinking of something else, but screw it. Quick Draw is amazing.
Standard B: Luna, Black Knight holds his sword and charges, he releases the blade in a slash similar to Marth. Like in the games, it pierces enemy defense
Down Special: Counter. It's tradition.

Final Smash:
Eclipse is the only right choice here.

Spoiler

I would honestly prefer to see this over Lyn.

 

[UberMario]

Oh yes. That is a brilliant idea. I mean the Ganondorf fans enjoyed playing a Captain Falcon clone so much. Why not do the same to the other 4 characters? We can make Ridley play like Bowser, Lyn play like Pit, Dark Samus play like Captain Falcon, and Black Shadow play like Donkey Kong. There is no way anyone could NOT like this idea.

I remembered that time where Ganondorf's moveset wasn't still derivative in Project M . . . . oh.

The point I was trying to make is, considering how long it takes to develop a character without all of the tools and crewmanship that the original developers did and without pay, that if they get around the limitation that prevents there from being more than 5 new characters (sans Mewtwo and Roy), that this could be a viable way to add 4 of them.

 

[lordvaati]

At least I see us getting one more character before the final release...but whoever that character is really comes down to popularity, limitations of moves, how well they fit in the environment of P:M, and whatever the hell the roster of Smash 4 is.

That's why the aforementioned Trainer move set I proposed I made sure was as doable as possible( modified Snake set) and relevant due to the Trainer being a Brawl character. But even then it still might be tricky, due to the Poke ball system( which I tried to make as simple as possible.)

 

[TheGhostlyPidove]

+1 for Medli+Makar! The idea of a duo character is brilliant in my opinion, and I think it should be used more often.
+1 for Tails!!!!! Tails is without a doubt my favorite Sonic character, and clearly deserving of a spot in the roster. I will probably make a thread later for his moveset.
+1 for Shadow. While not as deserving as Tails, Shadow is probably more likely to make it because of how popular he is. I am not against this. He has an OBVIOUS moveset, and the fan outcry practically GUARANTEES him.
I will make my other votes later...

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

+1 for Shadow. the fan outcry practically GUARANTEES him.

 

[Shin F.]

+1 for Shadow. ... more likely to make it because of how popular he is... and the fan outcry practically GUARANTEES him.
I will make my other votes later...

You haven't seen the results of the voting, have you?

(The voting is over, by the way, unless/ until we take it up again.)

 

[TheNotSoShyGuy]

Spoiler

I'm just gonna place this here if you guys don't mind… I finally got it done a couple of days ago.

 

[Darkmask]

I'm all for adding new villains to the roster, Black Knight, RIdley, Shadow the Hedgehog (more of an anti-hero, I know, but on the same level as Mewtwo IMO), Skullkid, and King K. Rool all seem like a great list to add in to those 5 remaining slots.

Although Golden Sun should get a rep as well.

Now there's one, anyone post a decent King K. Rool moveset? He seems a confusing choice, since he's been in a number of games, but every time he's in some weird costume, from King to Pirate to Mad Scientist (fafuq?), to Boxer.

 

[Darkmask]

Now that everything has calmed down I would like to bring up my long shot character, as it seems we all have one, that I think would be preferable.

I've brought him up beforehand, but generally it was rough and not very polished. As these things have become better, I've desired to update this.
Let's start

Why Black Knight
* The high demand for villains
* The lack of slow using characters that wield weapons is a slot unfilled. People push for Sworddorf, but that is the only roster decision that could offend some players, so I believe that this is by far the best option.
* Generally popular character within the Fire Emblem and Smash franchise, competed with Lyn, Roy, and Sigurd for a slot within the fanbase during Brawl development
* Has the same teacher as Ike, so giving him Ike's base and cloning some moves would actually make sense. At the same time, the Black Knight is far more refined and has a smoother style, offering plenty of independent movements.
* Many of the sound effects from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance could fill sound effects. Black Knight has the fortunate fate of being a character already with a voice actor, and his quotes actually fit the Smash environment. To add to that, his voice sounds filtered enough that it wouldn't be impossible to imitate. His movement and sound effects can come from the distinctive noise that comes when he walks, as well as skill effects such as when he activates eclipse. To add to this, all of Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, and Radiant Dawn, were fully dubbed in Japan. So if there's a limit in the American games, they can just use the Japanese Black Knight and it would not be out of place either.

Spoiler: Proof dawg

If you jump to 2:08, Black Knight gives two extremely good victory lines that are easy to play back to back.

The playstyle
Black Knight certainly looks like a slow character, but he's deceptively fast in cutscene.

Spoiler

At the same time, his movements are extremely slow in game. I'm not entirely sure why there is such an inconsistency, but let's roll with it.
The Black Knight should have a slow walking speed, but keep a running speed that's a little slower then Ike.
At the same time, his kill moves in the games generally consist of extremely long startup while his basic hits are quite a bit quicker/smoother, so he can alternate between rough kill moves and smooth fencing depending on the ferocity of the attack.

Movements
The Black Knights standard position is extremely relaxed. He stands still when not moving, and keeps his sword in an equally relaxed downward position.
Crouching, the Black Knight entered a kneeling position. Resting his sword arm on the raised knee while having his other arm on the ground. His sword is facing behind him during the crouch.
Jumping, the Black Knight jumps quickly and falls extremely fast. His jumps are rather short as well.
Walking, the Black Knight moves slowly while his armor makes his distinctive clink sound.
Running... look at the video posted in playstyle.

Basic Ground Attacks
Now then, let's start

A: Black Knight does a basic jab, identical to Ike
AA: Second Jab, identical to Ike
AAA: Black Knight extends his arm further into an open palm to push the opponent away.

F-Tilt: Black Knight does a quick ground to upwards swipe.
D-Tilt: Black Knight, still kneeling, does quick jabs with the hilt of his sword. It reaches out rather far and comes out quickly, but it is far shorter then a large part of his moves
U-Tilt: Black Knight once again takes a lesson from Ike and raises the sword rather similarly.

Front Smash: The Black Knight raises his sword arm behind him, then unwinds to slam the sword into his foe.
Down Smash: Black Knight raises his sword, my dear friend Hakumen will show ay how it's down.

Spoiler: THE END HAS COME

Up Smash: Ike's Upsmash seems appropriate.

Aerials
Black Knight, like the other Fire Emblem characters, hasn't really fought in the air. The obvious is that due to his armor, he should fall extremely quickly... but everything else is pretty up for grabs.

Nooch: Black Knight performs a sex kick.
Back Air: Black Knight emulates Marth, having a long backwards cut that covers a large amount of the area behind him.
Forward Air: Black Knight copies Ike once again, having a large lunge attack.
Down Air: Black Knight copies Ike... again. The attack comes out later, but he pulls it back slightly faster, making it less punishable.
Up Air: The Black Knight does a straight upward stab, similar to Link.

Grabs
Black Knight's grab range is about as long as Marth's, leaving him with a lot of room to control the area around him.

Basic Grab: The Black Knight reaches far in front of him with his arm
Running Grab: The Black Knight tries to reach far in front, and takes extra steps trying to grab his opponent. He has more active frames, but is more punishable.
Pummel: Black Knight does quick strikes at the opponent's chest
Down Throw: Black Knight grabs the opponent and slams them into the ground so hard that the opponent rises straight up.
Up Throw: Black Knight launches the opponent lightly up in the air, allowing for follow ups.
Forward Throw: Black Knight kicks the opponent away.
Back Throw: Black Knight kick the opponent away BUT BACKWARDS

Specials
Up Special: Warp Power. The Black Knight has a magical seal similar to the intro of Ike/Marth/Roy. In this time he remains still, or falls slowly if in the air, and moves to another location, depending on player input, when B is released. It has a limit of being slightly shorter then Zelda's recovery.
Forward Special: Quick Draw. I was thinking of something else, but screw it. Quick Draw is amazing.
Standard B: Luna, Black Knight holds his sword and charges, he releases the blade in a slash similar to Marth. Like in the games, it pierces enemy defense
Down Special: Counter. It's tradition.

Final Smash:
Eclipse is the only right choice here.

Spoiler

Edit: OH SHOOT, I FORGOT TAUNTS AND VICTORY SCREENS!

Taunts

Taunt 1: Black Knight's victory animation as seen in the eclipse video
Taunt 2: Black Knight points his sword in front of him, challenging the opponent.
Taunt 3: Black Knight raises his sword between his eyes, then swipes down and back into his standing position.

Victories
1) Black Knight sticks his sword into the ground and says "Is that it, no challenge?"
2) Black Knight's back faces the player and he warps away from the stage
3) Black Knight looks raises his sword to the air and it shines.

This is pretty awesome, sure Fire Emblem already has 3 representatives, but I'm always onboard for a villain and this one seems pretty badass!

From what I've found he already comes with an awesome alt as well, also has the following art from Radiant Dawn:

Spoiler

Still a walking armory, so I think as a special alt it would work just as well!

 

[Cool Blue]

This is pretty awesome, sure Fire Emblem already has 3 representatives, but I'm always onboard for a villain and this one seems pretty badass!

From what I've found he already comes with an awesome alt as well, also has the following art from Radiant Dawn:

Still a walking armory, so I think as a special alt it would work just as well!

PUT THE SPOILERS IN.

 

[Shin F.]

Hey, guys. I'm going to quote my major Ninten moveset posts (and Saito's) just to have them all in a single post I can link to in my sig instead of using 3 or more. Feel free to ignore the spoiler, it's all stuff that's been said before.

Spoiler: Project M: Ninten Moveset Ideas

Ninten This one may seem a bit odd. I know the Mother series is saturated, but he is the only main protagonist from the series that's not playable - and the main character of the first game, at that. Like Claus, he can be easily cloned from Ness/Lucas, and you could even mix and match from the two since their bones are similar enough to blend them.

Most importantly, he has a potentially unique moveset as the only PSI user with no directly offensive PK Attacks. His specials could instead be based around buffs and shields. Lucas now has Offense Up, of course, so he wouldn't necessarily use that but he could always use Quick Up to become faster for a while, or maybe have a temporary, limited version of Turbo Mode with it.

Then, he could have Power Shield instead of PSI Magnet. One way it could work is Power Shield blocks damage (but not knockback) from physical attacks and redirects some of the damage, but doesn't work on energy based attacks. Like PSI Magnet, he can't move while using it, though, so it isn't too overpowered against purely physical characters since he still takes knockback and can be sent flying while holding it. The other way is to only partially block damage.

His recovery could be his unique move 4th-D Slip, which in the original game allows him to escape from battles.

And, if he really needs an offensive special, he could have the PK attack unique to Earthbound Zero, PK Beam. Alternatively, there's a point in the game where he can get a Boomerang, and he has a Slingshots as well, which are both items the other Mother characters don't use.

Finally, he could also potentially use PSI Hypnosis, which puts enemies to sleep. I personally envision it as a chargeable version of Jigglypuff's sing that gains distance as it charges but loses effectiveness as it gets farther, but it could work in a multitude of ways.

The only problem I can foresee is his Final Smash, though he could borrow something from another character - or maybe PK Beam could be his Final Smash. The other possibility would be less direct, and more of an assist FS like Peach's. PSI Lifeup / Shields, which would heal him and give him temporary invincibility.

I realize his official artwork looks incredibly similar to Ness, but there is an alternative - in the original live action commercial, he wears another outfit that has been adapted in many fanart versions of him.

Plus, he could have a unique taunt where he coughs and uses his inhaler.

I was looking over my other post, and I realized I could probably have formatted my Ninten +1 reasoning more like the ones in the OP, so I decided to go on ahead and do that.

Ninten (Mother / EarthBound Zero)

(Full size image here: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131102064529/fantendo/images/d/d1/NintenRim.png)

Value: B (Important to the series as a whole, but in a saturated series)
Effort: A (Psuedoclone. Luigified Ness/Lucas, easy model / texture edit of Ness, can borrow many moves from them while having his own, unique divergences.)

Background/Reasons: The only main Mother character still not playable, and the star of the first game. Not a walking spoiler. To prevent him looking too similarly to Ness, he can wear his clothes from the live commercial rather than his official art.

Moveset: Most normal moves and animations can be cloned from Ness and Lucas. The specials could as well, but if they weren't cloned then they would revolve around buffs and shields. Quick Up (temporary speed increase), Power Shield (which blocks physical rather than energy attacks), PSI Hypnosis (like Jigglypuff's Sing), 4th-D Slip (Teleports), and PK Beam (Unique to Earthbound Zero) are ideal techniques, though he also has a boomerang and a slingshot.

As a Final Smash, he could have either PK Beam or a combination of PSI Life Up and a number of Shields that would heal him completely and give him temporary invulnerability. Maybe add some buffs like Offense Up and Quick Up to make him faster and stronger during this period a la Wario Man. Finally, he could have Brain Cyclone as a Final Smash, which would work in three waves radiating from him. The first would spike characters it hits down, the second would stun them, and the third would have large knockback.

Pros
Important character from his series.
Luigifiable.
Would smoothly round out the reps from the Mother Trilogy. (Not a walking spoiler.)
Appears in Brawl as a sticker.
So many Mother fans. Feed their voracious hunger.

Cons
From a small series that already has two reps.
No voice clips, but could remain silent or borrow generic voice clips from Ness' old appearances in 64 and Melee.

The main thing I was thinking could be done to help differentiate him (other than his specials) was that he could use his items (like the bat, yoyo and boomerang) in more than just his smashes, unlike the others, and perhaps use them in different ways for his smashes. This makes sense from a standpoint of gameplay (making him more unique) and of character (because Ninten doesn't naturally learn offensive PSI like PK Rockin or PK Love, so he relies more on his tools).

So maybe his fair is a meteor with him smashing the enemy downwards with his bat. Maybe his f-smash has him swing his yoyo in a circle that goes all the way around him. Maybe he can use his yoyo as a tether grab and use it to throw people. All in all, he has many ways his normals could be pretty unique.

His specials can revolve around his ability to buff himself, deal status effects, and can also optionally give him the Mother 1-exclusive attack PK Beam (which I envision as a white, slower version of a Spacie blaster with a lot of Hitstun and prehaps an electric effect). He could also use PSI Hypnosis (which would act like Jigglypuff's Sing with the ability to charge the attack for greater distance), PSI Quick Up (which would work like Lucas' Offense Up, but would increase his speed instead of his power), and 4th-D Slip (which is his signature ability and would act as his recovery, allowing him to teleport).

His Final Smash has a couple of options. The easiest and most obvious are PK Beam Ω (a greatly powered up PK Beam), or as someone else suggest PSI Brainshock or Brain Cyclone, which could act in a number of ways depending on how it was implemented.

So, here is how I would personally assign his specials:

B: Quick Up - When fully charged, this increases Ninten's speed temporarily. This could manifest in a number of different forms, whether it be attack speed, running speed, falling speed - that's up to PMBR to decide, I suppose. Another idea was that it could act as a short-lived Turbo Mode.

Down B: Hypnosis - Ninten sends out a radial wave of PSI that can put enemies on the ground to sleep, and possibly make them go into a damage fall in the air.

Side B: PK Beam - Ninten sends out a ray of white energy with lots of hitstun.

Up B: 4th-D Slip - A teleportation technique that has Ninten go into a dimensional portal and come out of it elsewhere.

Final Smash: PK Beam Ω or Brain Cyclone. PK Beam Ω is obvious in its uses - it's a powerful beam, enough said really. The suggestion for Brain Cyclone was rather interesting. The person who suggested it came up with the idea that it would work in three waves radiating from him, like Tabuu's Off Waves. The first would spike characters it hits down, the second would stun them, and the third would have large knockback.

His taunts can involve him playing his Ocarina (the first part of the Eight Melodies?), coughing and using his inhaler, or adjusting his hat or bandana.

Here they are, finally scanned them and put them together. They're a bit rough because I rushed them, but I hope you guys like them as much as when I described them with just words. I'm open to suggestions, even if I probably won't draw them out (too much time )

Spoiler

Ninten

Isn't that ness?
No it's not!
​

Ninten, the boy with asthma, the boy who wears a scarf, the boy THATS NOT IN SMASH BROTHERS. The main character of the First mother series, he pretty much follows the standard of the other two protagonists while looking strikingly similar to that of Ness. They function nearly the same and are mostly separated by their differences in their stories.

However, Ninten has the potential to bring a unique weapon onto the field of battle, while providing its own quirks and differentiating him from Ness and Lucas.

His Yo yo.

I don't actually know much about mother so let's just get into the character shall we?
​

As Ninten has asthma, it should be no surprise that he has a slower running speed than Lucas or Ness (Not really but just go with it) His jump should reach a balance between Lucas' and Ness' jump while having a balance of their fall speed as well.

Main core of the character? Disjointed ranged attacks. A dangerous thought already. Wielding good options for pressuring enemies from a relatively safe distance in his Yo-Yo, he would not be unlike marth in the sense that spacing is key. He forgoes his bat entirely to make good use of his Yo-yo while not having to put it away.

Moves
​

• Jab : Up to two throws of the yo-yo straight forward. second one going a bit longer than the first one.
• Ftilt : Spin's and "slices" horizontally with the Yo-Yo. Relatively fast move.
• Dtilt : Throws the yo-yo at the opponents feet in a curve, causing a trip upon a successful hit. Trip's them in place, does not send them away from Ninten. relatively long start up to where it's easily projected to the enemy. However, it has extremely short end lag so that it can be punished heavily for getting hit by it.
• Utilt : throws yo-yo straight up at a pretty fast rate. Good damage and knockback. Can be held out similar to Ness' down smash by holding A. causes a flinch similar to falco's blaster when hit by the held yo-yo.
• Fsmash : Throws the Yo-Yo straight ahead. Able to be angled 45 degrees upward and downward similar to ganon's or roy's Ftilts. Able to be held out in place after the smash by holding A. Initial hit is strong and pushes enemies away in the direction that the attack was launched while the subsequent hit's have knockback similar to wolf blaster. Good for Edge guarding and shield pressure. Fair endlag
• Usmash : Exactly like ness' Usmash. When hit it sends enemies above Ninten. Can be held before the smash is thrown like Ness'
• Dsmash : Spins around with the Yo-yo in a fashion similar to that of Roy's Dsmash. Cannot be held out
• Nair : As proposed by @ Shin F. it would be similar to Ness' Nair but with increased range due to the yo-yo.
• Uair : Arc from in front of Ninten to behind him, similar to that of Wolf's Uair albeit with increased range. Good for setting up as it doesn't have much knockback but does stun a good amount. Ala Roy.
• Dair : Throw the Yo-Yo Straight downwards. It's a spike but not a very strong one.
• Fair : Spins and slices horizontally with the Yo-yo just like Ftilt, but with much more power while being a bit slower. Should have solid killing potential.
• Bair : Similar to Toon Link's Bair. Sending the Yo-yo in an arc from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head, it sends enemies higher into the air. Relatively fast.

I have no idea how to work out his B attacks (Special attacks) so someone should send me a PM about it so I can work it in. I'm considering giving him a tether recovery via yo-yo over the usual PK thunder.)

I'm still considering his Wavedash length, tech roll lengths and other such things but I don't have much to say about that stuff yet. I also haven't thought about how his grabs would work but they definitely involve grabbing with the Yo-yo.

I think there is good potential here as well.
What about you?

Would it be terribly offensive if I suggested that PSI Brain Cyclone could function similarly to Luigi's FS? I do realize there's the originality factor (which is a bit more of a factor considering a FS is more of an aesthetic feature) but I'll mention it anyways.
I was thinking it could simply cause immediate stun to any character in the radius for the duration of the move (it makes the enemy "feel strange," right?) unlike Luigi's, which just throws random things at random intervals and spikes Physics' drink, among other things. A proper tradeoff could be that there isn't any difference in KB within the Brain Cyclone, but every move induces a significant "paralyzer" effect (same as ZSS dsmash, about), allowing Ninten to go crazy with the combos for a while. Come to think of it though, paralyzer mechanics don't allow the effect to chain, so a workaround might be needed.

I hadn't thought about that, but it's actually quite brilliant. I like it. I could imagine the effects causing a prolonged stunning effect. That would be pretty cool.

I have another idea. What if the technique actually decreased knockback drastically for most of the duration, then increases it greatly just before the end? So, Ninten can get in a ton of combos without much knockback to knock the enemies away, and then at the end he can send them flying with increased knockback. It may sound OP, but it is a Final Smash, after all.

Edit: I want this as one of his yoyo attacks now. Maybe his Up-Smash.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Would it be terribly offensive if I suggested that PSI Brain Cyclone could function similarly to Luigi's FS? I do realize there's the originality factor (which is a bit more of a factor considering a FS is more of an aesthetic feature) but I'll mention it anyways.
I was thinking it could simply cause immediate stun to any character in the radius for the duration of the move (it makes the enemy "feel strange," right?) unlike Luigi's, which just throws random things at random intervals and spikes Physics' drink, among other things. A proper tradeoff could be that there isn't any difference in KB within the Brain Cyclone, but every move induces a significant "paralyzer" effect (same as ZSS dsmash, about), allowing Ninten to go crazy with the combos for a while. Come to think of it though, paralyzer mechanics don't allow the effect to chain, so a workaround might be needed.

 

[Shin F.]

Would it be terribly offensive if I suggested that PSI Brain Cyclone could function similarly to Luigi's FS? I do realize there's the originality factor (which is a bit more of a factor considering a FS is more of an aesthetic feature) but I'll mention it anyways.
I was thinking it could simply cause immediate stun to any character in the radius for the duration of the move (it makes the enemy "feel strange," right?) unlike Luigi's, which just throws random things at random intervals and spikes Physics' drink, among other things. A proper tradeoff could be that there isn't any difference in KB within the Brain Cyclone, but every move induces a significant "paralyzer" effect (same as ZSS dsmash, about), allowing Ninten to go crazy with the combos for a while. Come to think of it though, paralyzer mechanics don't allow the effect to chain, so a workaround might be needed.

I hadn't thought about that, but it's actually quite brilliant. I like it. I could imagine the effects causing a prolonged stunning effect. That would be pretty cool.

I have another idea. What if the technique actually decreased knockback drastically for most of the duration, then increases it greatly just before the end? So, Ninten can get in a ton of combos without much knockback to knock the enemies away, and then at the end he can send them flying with increased knockback. It may sound OP, but it is a Final Smash, after all.

Edit: I want this as one of his yoyo attacks now. Maybe his Up-Smash.

 

[Saito]

I'm sorry everyone.

I failed you.

Shadow postponed for a day because I did homework, ended up taking a nap, then played smash for the rest of the day.

TOMORROW THOUGH.

THE ULTIMATE LIFE FORM​

Edit: I want this as one of his yoyo attacks now. Maybe his Up-Smash.

That would be neat. Not physically possible but since when has smash made much sense lol.

I don't really see how it would work though. Kirby's thing looks kind of like it springs him upward.

Now I'm no yo yo master, but I don't think a Yo-yo can spring it's wielder upward.

Although I think it would be badass for Ninten to just do that.

 

[Shin F.]

I'm sorry everyone.

I failed you.

Shadow postponed for a day because I did homework, ended up taking a nap, then played smash for the rest of the day.

TOMORROW THOUGH.

THE ULTIMATE LIFE FORM​

That would be neat. Not physically possible but since when has smash made much sense lol.

I don't really see how it would work though. Kirby's thing looks kind of like it springs him upward.

Now I'm no yo yo master, but I don't think a Yo-yo can spring it's wielder upward.

Although I think it would be badass for Ninten to just do that.

Kirby's thing IS a yoyo, lol.

 

[Saito]

Kirby's thing IS a yoyo.

What sort of foul wizard training has he undergone?

 

[Shin F.]

What sort of foul wizard training has he undergone?

Just call it Sakurai's logic and be done. As for Ninten, he can use PSI to propel himself if need be, Ness used it to basically fly in the SSE.

 

[Saito]

Just call it Sakurai's logic and be done. As for Ninten, he can use PSI to propel himself if need be, Ness used it to basically fly in the SSE.

Hmm, that could work.

But would it really be functionally better than the Usmash that covers both his front and his back rather than a cool looking attack that hits straight up with a kick of the gods?

 

[Shin F.]

Hmm, that could work.

But would it really be functionally better than the Usmash that covers both his front and his back rather than a cool looking attack that hits straight up with a kick of the gods?

I'd see a continuous hitbox on the spinning yoyo on the ground as well, and it would have greater vertical coverage as well. It would have less range forward and backward, but would still hit in those directions. I'm not sure if those stars would still be there in the move.

It's hard to say which would be functionally more useful, since I could see each version having advantages. Ness' Up-smash also has better edge-guarding, come to think of it. Then again, the yoyo having a hitbox on it could still have limited ability to guard against edge grabs while also hitting anyone trying to recover by jumping over him. Plus, his down-smash can serve the exact same purposes as the original Usmash, just without the over-head coverage. And the Gazer Spiral (which is the attack's name) would have more of that than the original.

In short, it sacrifices horizontal coverage for much greater vertical coverage, and would also likely knock the enemy much higher since the attack appears to have much more force behind it. I suppose it depends on what playstyle we would want Ninten to cater towards and which move would be best suited to it.

 

[Saito]

Yo-yo master might not want to get close and personal. I could see it working though.

It's an option. I'll give it that.

 

[Shin F.]

Yo-yo master might not want to get close and personal. I could see it working though.

It's an option. I'll give it that.

Could also be a quick attack to pop anyone who manages to get in close high into the air and away from him.

 

[Saito]

Could also be a quick attack to pop anyone who manages to get in close high into the air and away from him.

I'm all for it if they could make it have a sick Dacus.

would be TIGHT.

 

[Shin F.]

I'm all for it if they could make it have a sick Dacus.

would be TIGHT.

Well, that's definitely how I always used it in the original game (though to a lesser extent than I'd like to see it in Smash), so I did see it as being able to do that What if you could cancel it into a jump, as well? He dashes, dacus into that to pop them up, then before he comes back down he can jump cancel and combo them.

 

[Soupenomics]

Now I'm suddenly interested in Ninten being in.

 

[TheGhostlyPidove]

You haven't seen the results of the voting, have you?

(The voting is over, by the way, unless/ until we take it up again.)

No, not yet. I'm gonna check it now. Probably gonna have to eat my words later..

 

[TheGhostlyPidove]

Okay, just saw the results... Did not expect Shadow to be LAST PLACE! Y u gaiz haitin' on Tailz?

 

[Darkmask]

Hey, how's this for an idea? We want more Villains, and more Earthbound characters, how about Giygas be a contender? (obviously Mother 1 Giygas, not formless blob Mother 2 version)

Spoiler

Or would that be too much like Mewtwo? I wasn't sure about that, although I am quite sure using Earthbound psychics you could make a completely unique villain moveset.

 

[Shin F.]

Hey, how's this for an idea? We want more Villains, and more Earthbound characters, how about Giygas be a contender? (obviously Mother 1 Giygas, not formless blob Mother 2 version)

Spoiler

Or would that be too much like Mewtwo? I wasn't sure about that, although I am quite sure using Earthbound psychics you could make a completely unique villain moveset.

Is it really too much trouble to check that a character is in the game first?

Am I the only one who still does that?

Giygas can't be chosen. He's not in the game. If he were, I'd have already half-voted him as a Mewtwo clone. As it is, I still want him as a Mewtwo alt.