New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Xaranid]

Seriously, dude, what's your beef? I don't think I've said a single word to you outside defending myself from your accusations of me being a troll. You seriously need to reassess your life if somebody expressing their opinions in a moderately blunt manner is causing you this much grief. I gotta ask, what's your goal?

#ABAB #rhymes #poundsign

You caught me, AND my hidden agenda! My secret, anti-Pichu, anti-trojanpooh agenda. Good for you! In fact, you are personally so important to me, and I just hate Pichu SO MUCH that I don't know what to do with myself other than plot about YOU.

Get your head out of your ass, I don't care at all about you wanting Pichu in. You being a complete prick to everyone who doesn't want the rat in, however, gets old.

 

[trojanpooh]

You caught me, AND my hidden agenda! My secret, anti-Pichu, anti-trojanpooh agenda. Good for you! In fact, you are personally so important to me, and I just hate Pichu SO MUCH that I don't know what to do with myself other than plot about YOU.

Get your head out of your ***, I don't care at all about you wanting Pichu in. You being a complete prick to everyone who doesn't want the rat in, however, gets old.

3 edgy 5 me. Seriously, man, lighten up.

 

[Xaranid]

Just found the ignore function. +15 to my sanity!

 

[andalsoandy]

Because some people mained him and want to be able to play as him in the definitive Smash Bros game. It's not exactly rocket science.

You're absolutely right. From what I understand, Project M is supposed to encompass everything that people liked from the first 3 Smash games. I'm pretty sure that also means a complete roster. People like playing as the underdog anyway just for kicks.



Well I'm bored and my neck hurts. The most logical thing for me to do right now is make an Urban Champion moveset.

bcuz **** everything

his moveset could be the embodiment of old fighting games

he can move like vbrawl wario and megaman but to a greater extent

also he'd be a mario clone due to similarities

Entry - jumps out of manhole.

B - moves.

Up B - Uppercut. It doesn't help you recover too much. It's like a shorter version of Mario's but it's powerful.
Down B - Drops a flower pot below him (if on ground he tosses it forward)
Side B - Sorta like Marth's but with the punch/kick animations from the game.
Neutral B - Basically Marth's Counter.

Jab - Standard Punch from the game (quicker than side b's)
D-tilt - Low punch (down a in original)
F-tilt - Luigi's
U-tilt - Longer version of Jab, higher up but the punch continues downward and lands in front of him
Dash - rolls.
F-smash - Swings a light post at you.
U-smash - punches directly upward, jumping and spinning.
D-smash - crouches and kicks in front of him.

Nair - Mario's
Fair - Mario's
Bair - Wario's
Dair - Wario's dsmash except it sends him to the ground like sonic's dair.
Uair - Punches upward facing back of screen as if he were standing (top down view or whatever)

Taunts
Utaunt - win animation
Staunt - like game and watch's except jumps faster poses differently and jumps three times.
Dtaunt - shrugs his shoulders sorta like DKs in less frames.

FS
A cop car runs in the stage, Urban Champion looks completely normal and runs to the background while the cop car comes by with a policeman sticking his upper body outside the window, and it moves across the screen several times and tasers everyone doing 20%damage each hit.




what am I even doing

EDIT: Changed Fsmash to something more interesting and added entry

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I really don't understand why anyone would dislike the idea of having Pichu return given the reason behind it has absolutely ZIP to do with Pokemon representation. The purpose of the characters inclusion has much more to do with his relative infamy to the Smash fandom, arguably more than even Brawl Ganondorf possesses. The character was DESIGNED to be out of place, and unusual in it's relativity to the fighting game realm. He IS low tier, and creating an insanely creative and viable character through the iconic archetype that Pichu represents is just the challenge I want the combined ideas of the PMBR to prevail upon in the hellish world that is Smash balancing.

And with my final words, may this shout be heard across the interwebz, resonating with long withheld childhood memories.....................................................
PICHU-PICHUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trojanpooh]

Urban Champion is oddly fitting given how desperate Nintendo always is to shove it down our throats despite everyone knowing how completely ****s it is.

 

[andalsoandy]

Urban Champion is oddly fitting given how desperate Nintendo always is to shove it down our throats despite everyone knowing how completely ****s it is.

kinda what i had in mind too.

i kinda like playing it with friends because it's total crap and no one gets it anyway. I'd like an urban champion stage more than the character personally. I posted something in stage discussion about it but that thread is dead silent.

EDIT: yeah and urban champion is now in NES Remix so your point is further validated

EDIT2:

this is the kind of design the guy should get, this or a 3D sprite.

 

[Solbliminal]

Holy freaking crap.......so my power went out earlier for hours and it is -30° outside. Just got my power back. See a Pichu argument....again.... meh.

Is anyone interested in Ray?

 

[Solbliminal]

Double post..

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I thought the pichu stuff was done.... geez you guys either he'll be in or he won't be in its really a 50/50 chance. dat's it.

Holy freaking crap.......so my power went out earlier for hours and it is -30° outside. Just got my power back. See a Pichu argument....again.... meh.

Is anyone interested in Ray?

Hi there I am interested in ray. I also gave him a half vote and stuffs. Sanic is kool so I took away my negatives. welcome.

 

[Saito]

Holy freaking crap.......so my power went out earlier for hours and it is -30° outside. Just got my power back. See a Pichu argument....again.... meh.

What else would you expect?
I'll defend his inclusion until the PMBR explicitly says that he will or won't be in.

Is anyone interested in Ray?

I need context.

Who is this?

 

[XStarWarriorX]

What else would you expect?
I'll defend his inclusion until the PMBR explicitly says that he will or won't be in.


I need context.

Who is this?

 

[Saito]

Spoiler

Ray MK II.

Just ray threw me off.

Neutral on the idea. I don't know much about him.

 

[Empyrean]

I have to talk about this part.

This is the best thing about Pichu.

It wouldn't be added simply because it's a Pokemon and it's popular, it would be added on the basis that it has an established moveset, pre-made sounds, a model to base it off of, animations to base it off of, and a unique gimmick that can be reworked into something great.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have any beef against the little guy. I wouldn't care if he was in or not. I'm neither a supporter nor a hater. If he's in, then good for the fans that anxiously wait for his return. If not, then honestly, I don't give a single poo, I'm already more than happy with the current roster. And note, for some people, it's not that he's not interesting, it's just that some of the other choices are more appealing to them.

Ok, so now, after 190 pages of discussion, I'm officially tired of this topic. We're just beating a dead horse here. Can't we just wait and see what the PMBR will do and move on?

 

[Solbliminal]

What else would you expect?
I'll defend his inclusion until the PMBR explicitly says that he will or won't be in.


I need context.

Who is this?

Ray01 or Ray MKIII is a mascot for the Custom Robot series.

Spoiler

 

[Saito]

Don't get me wrong. I don't have any beef against the little guy. I wouldn't care if he was in or not. I'm neither a supporter nor a hater. If he's in, then good for the fans that anxiously wait for his return. If not, then honestly, I don't give a single poo, I'm already more than happy with the current roster. And note, for some people, it's not that he's not interesting, it's just that some of the other choices are more appealing to them.

I know that you are completely neutral.

I understand that people may not find him as interesting as other choices as well. I accept that, but I do try to sway people to have at least a neutral opinion of him.

This tends to be really difficult since people see Pichu as a threat to roster space.

Ok, so now, after 190 pages of discussion, I'm officially tired of this topic. We're just beating a dead horse here. Can't we just wait and see what the PMBR will do and move on?

Seconded.

 

[andalsoandy]

i played urban champion for about an hour getting to know the game better (a surprisingly pleasant experience) and preparing a moveset for urban champion discussion thinking the idea might accidentally catch on

then ray showed up again.

gosh darn you to heck ray

i'm going to bed

 

[trojanpooh]

i played urban champion for about an hour

This is where you went wrong.

 

[Solbliminal]

i played urban champion for about an hour getting to know the game better (a surprisingly pleasant experience) and preparing a moveset for urban champion discussion thinking the idea might accidentally catch on

then ray showed up again.

gosh darn you to heck ray

i'm going to bed

Should've been playing Custom Robo SON!!

 

[andalsoandy]

This is where you went wrong.

ikr

i didn't stop until i died.

dont know why but i never felt the urge to quit. I mean it was boring but not repulsive.

Should've been playing Custom Robo SON!!

probably

urban champion is messing with my head

 

[Empyrean]

Who would Ray be cloned off? Samus?

 

[Shin F.]

Who would Ray be cloned off? Samus?

Probably, but Snake is possible too, I think.

 

[Empyrean]

Probably, but Snake is possible too, I think.

Well I guess it depends on what type of character we want him to be. Maybe someone can clear this up for me, since I haven't played Custom Robo, I'm just supporting him for his bad*** and cool design (That's my numero uno priority).

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

If he uses a lot of missles, then Samus is the best base.
If he uses energy weapons primarily, then a Mother brother would be better.

I've never played Custom Robo so I dunno either,

 

[DrinkingFood]

What if we had a character like Double who uses the best moves from the rest of the cast. Help me fill this out guys.
B- Synthesis/Solarbeam
>B- Green Missile
^B-
vB-Falco shine yo
A- #Kirbyjabs
>A-
^A- Mewtwo tail whip
vA-
>>A-Wolf's
>C- Marth
^C- Fox

It could be Ditto. The only fitting nintendo "character" for that role, I think... that I know of. He transforms into a different char for each move/animation, then transforms back to ditto for idle standing/falling animations and maybe others. But all your "best moves" are wrong. It should be best or most iconic (or some compromise between the two) moves and animations from across the cast, but with quirks that make them slightly worse reminiscent of Ditto's inability to ever copy anything perfectly.

Falcon's fair, maybe the sweetspot/sour spot reversed tho
Falco's dair, but it's a meteor not a spike
Jigg's bair, slower to end and less disjointed
MK's Nair, not sure what difference
Pika's Uair, some spots send at different angles?
Roy's Dtilt, sends slightly more outward
DDDs Ftilt, but hammer is slightly smaller and easier to CC; could also be a 2-3 piece combo, starting with snake's Ftilt1, ending in DDDs
Sheik's Utilt maybe? Not many notable ones
Yoshi's dsmash maybe? but sends slightly higher angle
Marth's fsmash or maybe someone else, lots of options here for good ones
Lucas's or Fox's usmash, weaker or more outward
Jab combo 3 piece, ends in Ike's Jab3 overhead slash, but starts with other characters' jab1/2
Fox's laser if he's not already used, but as slow as falco's
ROB's side-b, slightly slower to start, only gets one
Not sure whose up-b, preferably not a long one
Snake's C4 or Link's bomb, slower to set-off+much weaker KBG or slower to pull, respectively
DK's fthrow->options (all slightly worse)
MewTwo's/Zard's uthrow
Maybe Sheik's dthrow, lots of other options tho
Mario's bthrow
Bowser's >100 ledge attack, slightly less reach and speed
Luigi's landfallspecial (for that wavedash animate mmmhmm)
Various other ledge options
Various Dodging options
Various knockdown options
Somebody's jumpstart animation
Somebody's initial dash (Marth's?) transitioning into someone else's run loop (Sheik's?)

there is so much cool stuff to be done with this
responding 4 pages late though
without reading anything after it



and quoting this for ease

I just realized. The perfect character for P:MBR's first P:M unique smash character is one nobody ever talks about- BattleToads. I don't know the names of the characters (do they have any?) but it doesn't matter since they fight the same. This has to happen. So many people have nostalgia for that game. It would be a nice homage for the sequel that never happened. Fair bit of potential for their moveset, too.

Hell, they even have item throw and crate carrying/throw animations, a swimming animation, and a ledgehang animation, in addition to stuff like a jab combo animation, various other attacks like a super kick, headbutt, overhead double fist swing, an uppercut, staff swing, etc, during most of which their limbs iconically expand to comic proportions. They even ride stuff at times- recovery moves. Also a taunt- the jaw drop when they meet a boss.
Also, can stick tongue out to catch flies, for w/e that's worth

Just gonna leave with:
Ridley is still too big, resizing will look ********, and olimar's dumb, non-canon resizing is not a valid excuse for more dumb, non-canon resizing
Pichu is still a ****ty character choice based on being a ****ty version of pikachu, there are much more deserving options... like battletoads, plus standard toaster confirmed the pichu pic for being a ruse
time to gtfo this thread before i catch the cancer

 

[Saito]

It could be Ditto. The only fitting nintendo "character" for that role, I think... that I know of. He transforms into a different char for each move/animation, then transforms back to ditto for idle standing/falling animations and maybe others. But all your "best moves" are wrong. It should be best or most iconic (or some compromise between the two) moves and animations from across the cast, but with quirks that make them slightly worse reminiscent of Ditto's inability to ever copy anything perfectly.

You had my curiosity.

Falcon's fair, maybe the sweetspot/sour spot reversed tho
Falco's dair, but it's a meteor not a spike
Jigg's bair, slower to end and less disjointed
MK's Nair, not sure what difference
Pika's Uair, some spots send at different angles?
Roy's Dtilt, sends slightly more outward
DDDs Ftilt, but hammer is slightly smaller and easier to CC; could also be a 2-3 piece combo, starting with snake's Ftilt1, ending in DDDs
Sheik's Utilt maybe? Not many notable ones
Yoshi's dsmash maybe? but sends slightly higher angle
Marth's fsmash or maybe someone else, lots of options here for good ones
Lucas's or Fox's usmash, weaker or more outward
Jab combo 3 piece, ends in Ike's Jab3 overhead slash, but starts with other characters' jab1/2
Fox's laser if he's not already used, but as slow as falco's
ROB's side-b, slightly slower to start, only gets one
Not sure whose up-b, preferably not a long one
Snake's C4 or Link's bomb, slower to set-off+much weaker KBG or slower to pull, respectively
DK's fthrow->options (all slightly worse)
MewTwo's/Zard's uthrow
Maybe Sheik's dthrow, lots of other options tho
Mario's bthrow
Bowser's >100 ledge attack, slightly less reach and speed
Luigi's landfallspecial (for that wavedash animate mmmhmm)
Various other ledge options
Various Dodging options
Various knockdown options
Somebody's jumpstart animation
Somebody's initial dash (Marth's?) transitioning into someone else's run loop (Sheik's?)

But now you have my attention.

That seems like it would throw off enemies so badly in a match but it's really interesting anyway.

I was actually expecting battletoads after reading the post in the social thread.

there is so much cool stuff to be done with this
responding 4 pages late though
without reading anything after it.

You made the right choice.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I was actually expecting battletoads after reading the post in the social thread

you replied too soon

 

[ChronoBound]

Just gonna leave with:
Ridley is still too big, resizing will look ********, and olimar's dumb, non-canon resizing is not a valid excuse for more dumb, non-canon resizing

Too bigots never waste an opportunity to show off their ignorance.

Its not just Olimar that has been resized for Smash Bros., but also:
- Kirby
- King Dedede
- Meta Knight
- Ganondorf
- Pikachu
- Jigglypuff
- Charizard
- Bowser

All of them have sizes way off from what they are canonically supposed to be.

Yet Ridley is somehow "different".

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

 

[Saito]

and quoting this for ease

That feel when battletoads didn't make an appearance in SSBB or I would be supportive of that.

At least. I don't think they did.

Just gonna leave with:
Pichu is still a ****ty character choice based on being a ****ty version of pikachu, there are much more deserving options... like battletoads, plus standard toaster confirmed the pichu pic for being a ruse

Roy
Let's not open this can of worms again though.

Can I get a source on the bolded though?

you replied too soon

Gotta go fast.

 

[jtm94]

I saw Sakapon, that seemed cool. I vote for it.

 

[Solbliminal]

Probably, but Snake is possible too, I think.

Well I guess it depends on what type of character we want him to be. Maybe someone can clear this up for me, since I haven't played Custom Robo, I'm just supporting him for his bad*** and cool design (That's my numero uno priority).

If he uses a lot of missles, then Samus is the best base.
If he uses energy weapons primarily, then a Mother brother would be better.

I've never played Custom Robo so I dunno either,

I actually played Custom Robo. One of the very many obscure Nintendo titles I actually enjoyed. The game is pretty solid even if the gameplay "looks" hectic. I actually recommend it. But if you guys are hand held gamers, Custom Robo Arena for the DS is your best bet.

As for a moveset, I've been planning it out and going through YouTube videos to refresh my memory about the game. I've been doing my best to work out ideas that would fit in a P:M setting without overlapping the requirements of being a clone. My biggest issue at the moment is that I yet again am without internet because I had to move back to Ohio, so I back to using my phone to type out replies. I'm getting internet sometime today, so I should be able go go more in depth with Ray's moveset.

For now though I have a bit of insight on the character that can help this discussion. The character Ray (any version) has one trait in common with characters like Mega Man and Samus. He has an extremely wide array of weapons with barely any physical attacks to draw inspiration from. While Samus gained physical moves based on her training with the Chozo and other forms of training (insert ChronoBound's previous Metroid discussions here), and Mega Man has modified variations of his copied abilities over the years, the only real physical combat that could be applied to Ray is based on his initial GameCube game appearance. (In case of spoilers, this next part I'll collapse.)

Spoiler

Ray's eventual owner in the GameCube Custom Robo, becomes a bounty hunter to pay his dues on an apartment he lives in, and at the end of the game he becomes part of a Custom Robo "Police Force". To me, this means that Ray himself might play with some limited Military and Police Academy training knowledge. Spoilers end here.

Another physical attack inspiration is a few weapons you obtain in the games that must be used at point blank. I do believe one of them was a stun gun of the sorts. Could be used similarly to ZSS's Side Smash, only horizontal / diagonal tilts on smash like Mario's Side Smash.

I do also believe the MKIII variant (and maybe more since I'm going off memory ) have a jet mode transformation. If cloned from Samus, the morphball model can be replaced with his jet mode as a Side B or glide function similar to Pit, Meta, and Charizard. This also brings up a concept for his Up-B recovery. Basically the concept is that he burst jumps upward a certain short distance upwards, then from the position he is at after the initial burst jump you have 4 options:
- Jet burst a short distance backwards.
- Jet burst a short distance forwards.
- Fast fall by pressing down.
- Cancel out of one of the above options with an A-Button air attack. Even the initial Up-B without a following input.

This concept is similar to that of Rob's Up and Air Side B moves.

One last idea I had was brought up earlier, a playstyle similar to that of Mega Man. And no I'm not suggesting he should be P:M's replacement Mega Man or anything of the sorts. But there is one interesting aspect of Mega Man that fits snug within the concept of Ray's playstyle. Mega Man's jabstring is his buster shots, and a lot of his smashes / A button attacks are various modified projectile moves. Since Custom Robo is a very weapon oriented game to the same extent as that of Mega Man, this concept translates nearly seamless for a Ray playstyle. If this concept has balancing issues, than I can understand not using it or limiting it in some manner.

This is all I've got for now, so feel free to discuss it and give feedback. I'll be getting my internet soon enough, so maybe I'll try sketching out the moveset concept similarly to how the Lyn one from the op was made. Hope you guys enjoyed this post.

 

[Arteen]

Too bigots

That phrase is childish.

Ridley's case is different than the other characters. How big the characters are canonically doesn't matter, but what does matter is that relative sizes are still represented. Samus is already one of the taller characters in Smash, so Ridley can't be much larger without breaking various aspects of the game. And as seen in that one PSA, Samus-sized Ridley is lame.

Ridley is too big, and he ends up looking silly when he's smaller.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley is too big, and he ends up looking silly when he's smaller.

/Your Opinion

Pikachu canonically should be below the knee of someone like Mewtwo. The sizes are way inconsistent even amongst other characters from the SAME franchises.

Link is nearly as tall as Ganondorf, as opposed to only being only half his size like he is in the Zelda series.

Again, amongst the Too Bigots, Ridley is too big just because they say so.

 

[JediLink]

That phrase is childish.

Ridley's case is different than the other characters. How big the characters are canonically doesn't matter, but what does matter is that relative sizes are still represented. Samus is already one of the taller characters in Smash, so Ridley can't be much larger without breaking various aspects of the game. And as seen in that one PSA, Samus-sized Ridley is lame.

Ridley is too big, and he ends up looking silly when he's smaller.

I think resized Ridley looks perfectly fine and so does everyone else. You're an outlier.

 

[Solbliminal]

That phrase is childish.

Ridley's case is different than the other characters. How big the characters are canonically doesn't matter, but what does matter is that relative sizes are still represented. Samus is already one of the taller characters in Smash, so Ridley can't be much larger without breaking various aspects of the game. And as seen in that one PSA, Samus-sized Ridley is lame.

Ridley is too big, and he ends up looking silly when he's smaller.

While I personally just do not like Ridley, his size is about as relevant as Isaac's overpowered Golden Sun movepool. There is nothing wrong with Ridley.

 

[Rasgar]

I had to move back to Ohio

Really? Ohioan Ray supporters unite!

I have a few thoughts about moves, but I don't have a lot of time to write a big post now. I will say one thing though:

I do also believe the MKIII variant (and maybe more since I'm going off memory ) have a jet mode transformation.

That's not correct, actually. The jet mode is an exclusive ability of Lightning Sky models (I remember that, because I always used an LS). As I recall, Shining Fighters (the type that the Rays are) are the type of guys that are balanced and don't really have a unique ability. They use short air dashes instead of the jet mode.

 

[Solbliminal]

Really? Ohioan Ray supporters unite!

I have a few thoughts about moves, but I don't have a lot of time to write a big post now. I will say one thing though:



That's not correct, actually. The jet mode is an exclusive ability of Lightning Sky models (I remember that, because I always used an LS). As I recall, Shining Fighters (the type that the Rays are) are the type of guys that are balanced and don't really have a unique ability. They use short air dashes instead of the jet mode.

I knew I would mess at least one thing up since I was partially going on memory. But two things can be noted.

- The Smash series has been known to give characters non-canon attacks or attacks from relative characters of the same franchise.

- If the jet mode is a nit pick most will have, then it shouldn't be much of a problem to just have the jet mode replaced with air dashes. This however will eliminate his glide.

 

[Xaranid]

I'll half vote Ray, he'd be cool to see.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

There is a "Ray" lightning sky model at least in the DS version http://customrobo.wikia.com/wiki/Ray_Sky . I think considering there are a load of different Rays that they could make a model of him that's inspired by a bunch of different versions of him. I pretty much only used the transforming robots in that game cause I love transforming robots in general so I'm a little biased but I really do think that adding that sort of feature would work super well.

Edit: also what the **** is a "Too Bigot"?