New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Banjodorf]

That sounds a bit like it'd take as much work as Mewtwo, maybe a little more because Link and K. Rool have such different body shapes. If its possible, I'd definitely accept some blunderbuss Melee attacks.

However, modified Dedede still might work better. Give him tossable Klaptraps over Gordos, Kritters over Dees and..I really want Kloaks, but I dunno how possibru that is.

The Blunderbuss could be a standard Melee weapon. (Maybe its broken?)

Either way, I'd love it for K. Rool to get that kind of effort put into him, and is probably one of the most deserving characters for it, alongside Barney.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Barney.

I must be missing something here.

 

[Banjodorf]

I must be missing something here.

Some big purple dinosaur everyone loves. He's fairly popular apparently.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Some big purple dinosaur everyone loves. He's fairly popular apparently.

That's what I was afraid of.

 

[Ginge]

You can't expect them to copy all of Lyn's animations. And if you haven't noticed, Smash Bros has a very well known tendency to not completely be accurate for each character and takes its own liberties (*cough*especially Ganondorf*cough*)

I'm not suggesting they copy her animations. I'm just saying do any of those LOOK remotely like Ike's animations? The closest we have would be the way Sheik runs and some of Marth's sword hits.

- The way Sheik runs could also look similar to having Lyn's hand on a hilt of a sword as she runs up to an enemy.
- The animation for throwing needles could be modified from about halfway through the toss to look like a sword strike.
- Sheik has what looks like it could be edited to be a sheath for a sword already attached to her hip
- Sheik has a pony tail that could be modified to be Lyn's fairly easily to have the animations for the hair work.
- She comes with a bow animation from her final smash.

Since Lyn is a quickdraw katana wielder, most of the animations will consist of it in the sheath until she attacks.

 

[Solbliminal]

But that's exactly why Zelda makes more sense than Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem is already heavily about big war settings and character development, changing the genre doesn't provide any potential to work on the expanded universe. Zelda has always been very much about the Triforce trio with story focusing almost exclusively on Zelda and [insert villain here]. Making a spinoff hold the potential to delve into the different parts of history, races, characters, that Zelda has to offer. Any story that a Fire Emblem Warriors game could have to offer could just as easily be done as a main series game.

While there is a chance for those things to happen, we don't know if they will. Lets just wait to see this game develop further before assuming all those things will be touched upon.

From that standpoint, yes, but think of it from Nintendo's point of view - Zelda is a far more popular game than Fire Emblem, so chances are Hyrule Warriors will probably sell more than a Fire Emblem game would based on that alone. Nintendo is, after all, a business, and making $ is their number one priority. That's not to say Fire Emblem isn't popular, but Zelda is much more so.

Let's see- characters the game could use...

Spoiler

Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Vaati
Sheik
.
.
.
.
Kafei
.
.
.
.
Tons of others I can't be bothered to list

While Fire Emblem definitely has more characters (no argument there), Zelda has enough to have a good cast, and being the more popular franchise, it's pretty much a no-brainer which of the two to choose. How many characters does a Dynasty Warriors game typically have? I haven't played one, so it'd be good to know.

First off, yeah I considered the business aspect of this game. Zelda is more popular of a franchise, but that does also leave expectations to be met. If they are not met, it hinders the series. Consider that. I have faith it will succeed, I'm just wondering how it will be done. A series of Link variations and one-off characters isn't exactly something I would expect from the Warriors series. Especially seeing as how they have their own version of Link already. "Oh no!!! TOON LINK HAS INVADED YOUR BASE LINK!!! Hop on Epona and hurry there to reclaim it!" ...Sounds legit.

Secondly, Since when did Kafei step it up to eligible warlord status? Kafei confirmed for P:M.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

If we can't use shiek, i'd say link is next in line. Ike is just.... too weird.

 

[marlinswine]

i'm leaning toward sheik as well for lyn now. i reckon if you leave the kick attacks intact (aerials at least, probably none of the smashes or tilts) and utilise sheiks beam-sword attacks for jab, ftilt and fsmash, you've got half of a moveset with the needles made into a bow.
I don't really know about the whip, is it an article? probably not but i'm sure something interesting could be done there.

 

[Ginge]

you've got half of a moveset with the needles made into a bow.

Or. You know. The final smash. Which is a bow.

 

[marlinswine]

Or. You know. The final smash. Which is a bow.

aye, for the animation, and the needles for the articles.

 

[Shin F.]

I'm not suggesting they copy her animations. I'm just saying do any of those LOOK remotely like Ike's animations? The closest we have would be the way Sheik runs and some of Marth's sword hits.

- The way Sheik runs could also look similar to having Lyn's hand on a hilt of a sword as she runs up to an enemy.

Yeah, that'd be a good running animation.

- The animation for throwing needles could be modified from about halfway through the toss to look like a sword strike.

That's one animation that could help.

- Sheik has what looks like it could be edited to be a sheath for a sword already attached to her hip

Irrelevant. They're making all models from scratch. They don't build from the base character's model at all.

- Sheik has a pony tail that could be modified to be Lyn's fairly easily to have the animations for the hair work.

A good point, but-

...

Why not Zero Suit Samus? A lot of her whip animations could be sword slashes, and she also has hair animations for a ponytail. Not to mention she has an article that can become a bow! (The paralyzer shot)

First off, yeah I considered the business aspect of this game. Zelda is more popular of a franchise, but that does also leave expectations to be met. If they are not met, it hinders the series. Consider that. I have faith it will succeed, I'm just wondering how it will be done. A series of Link variations and one-off characters isn't exactly something I would expect from the Warriors series. Especially seeing as how they have their own version of Link already. "Oh no!!! TOON LINK HAS INVADED YOUR BASE LINK!!! Hop on Epona and hurry there to reclaim it!" ...Sounds legit.


Secondly, Since when did Kafei step it up to eligible warlord status? Kafei confirmed for P:M.

Expectations are high, but they wouldn't be any lower if it was Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem fans have standards, too

Don't forget that they CAN have original characters. Every Zelda game, as you said, has plenty of one-off characters and I'm sure Hyrule Warriors will be no exception.

As for Kafei, he is the son of the mayor of Termina. He's got to know some politics, and he's just as physically capable as Link.

 

[Ginge]

Why not Zero Suit Samus? A lot of her whip animations could be sword slashes, and she also has hair animations for a ponytail. Not to mention she has an article that can be come a bow! (The paralyzer shot)

I'll look through the animations for ZSS and compare it to what I have in my head for Lyn. See what can carry over. I was just giving reasons why Sheik was a better choice than "Fast Ike"

Edit: and the reason I mentioned Sheik's sheath-thing on her hip is I thought it might actually either be used in her animations or potentially have a bone for it.

After looking at ZSS, I don't think her running animation would be nearly as effective. Her whip motions don't transfer well to swords(based on looks) except maybe her n-air, especially for Lyn's style. But at that point you might as well use Marth since it's a similar n-air, but with a sword already.

 

[Nitro_Hamster]

My paper mario moveset

Paper mario moveset
Notes: if he lands in water, he rides Sushi and can't drown. When he crawls, he rolls up in a tube rolls. Its quite fast. He can glide by turning into a paper airplane. His duck dodge is Vivian pulling into the shadows. When he dashes he hops on baby Yoshi

Standards:

Neutral: Triple Hammer Hit: Hits left, right then left again. The last hit sends the opponent flying a bit

Side: Goombario Headbonk: Goombario jumps forward and headbonks the opponent

Up: Mini Jump Punch: Like Mario's except not as high or powerful

Down: Golf Swing: Swings his hammer like a golf club


Aerial Attacks:

Forward: Spiny Toss: Lakilester appears and tosses a Spiny egg. It disappears as soon as it hits the ground. It has high knock back

Back: BackSwing: Swings his hammer backwards

Up: Hammer Spin: Twirls his hammer upward

Down: Mega Jump: Falls down quickly then jumps on the opponent, spiking them down and jumping up

Dash Attack: Yoshi headbutts the opponent


Smashes:

Side: Spin Smash: Spins Forward: The longer the charge, the further he spins forward

Up: Hammer Toss: Throws the hammer upward at an angle forward. The longer the charge the higher the hammer travels

Down: Quake Hammer: Slams the hammer on the ground, creating a mini shock wave. The longer the charge, the taller the shock wave


Specials:

Neutral: Bobbery Blast: Pulls out and throws him. Bobbery walks forward and explodes after two seconds, or when you press B. He can walk off the stage

Side: Koop's Kick: Jumps on Koop's shell and kicks him forward, then Koop's returns to Paper Mario

Up: Parakarry Glide: The two if them fly up and then glide left or right

Down: Watt Shine: Pulls out Watt and Watt shines, stunning opponents around him.



Grabs:

Pummel: Lady Bow Slap: Lady Bow appears and slaps the opponent

Front: Flurry Wind: Paper Mario hits the opponent on the ground with his hammer, then Flurry blows wind, causing the opponent to fly forward

Back: Kooper Slam: Paper Mario hits the opponent at a lob behind him then hits Kooper toward the opponent, causing Kooper to hit the opponent

Up: Bombette Blast: Paper Mario smashes the opponent down and Bombette comes out and blasts the opponent up

Down: Hammer Smash: Mario smashes his opponents into the ground, like Charizard's down grab



Taunts:

Up: Goombella's Tips: Goombella pops out and tells you about your opponent

Side: Paper Pose: He does his pose when he earns a star and gives a thumbs up.

Down: Ms Mowz Kiss: Ms Mowz comes out and kisses you.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Hoooly crap. I don't mean to shoot you down, but do you have any idea how difficult and infeasible that would be for P:M?

 

[Shin F.]

I'll look through the animations for ZSS and compare it to what I have in my head for Lyn. See what can carry over. I was just giving reasons why Sheik was a better choice than "Fast Ike"

Edit: and the reason I mentioned Sheik's sheath-thing on her hip is I thought it might actually either be used in her animations or potentially have a bone for it.

After looking at ZSS, I don't think her running animation would be nearly as effective. Her whip motions don't transfer well to swords(based on looks) except maybe her n-air, especially for Lyn's style. But at that point you might as well use Marth since it's a similar n-air, but with a sword already.

Ah, well. I'll take your word for it. I was thinking mostly about her side smash I suppose - still, a ZSS clone could be interesting. I wonder if there is anyone who would fit the part?

 

[AnOkayDM]

Ah, well. I'll take your word for it. I was thinking mostly about her side smash I suppose - still, a ZSS clone could be interesting. I wonder if there is anyone who would fit the part?

Simon Belmont.

 

[Shin F.]

Simon Belmont.

Her jab attack is perfect for him XD

I actually had him in mind but didn't say anything because he's not eligible, but it would be absolutely awesome. Maybe PMBR will change their minds and make an exception for him since they have his stage

 

[AnOkayDM]

Her jab attack is perfect for him XD

I actually had him in mind but didn't say anything because he's not eligible, but it would be absolutely awesome. Maybe PMBR will change their minds and make an exception for him since they have his stage

So's her down throw.

It makes me sad he's not eligible. He makes so much more sense for Smash than Snake does, in terms of moveset as well as importance to Nintendo. He would've been a better Konami rep. Ah well, I can hope for Smash 4.

 

[Empyrean]

Her jab attack is perfect for him XD

I actually had him in mind but didn't say anything because he's not eligible, but it would be absolutely awesome. Maybe PMBR will change their minds and make an exception for him since they have his stage

While I know Simon's inclusion might cause problems with Konami, but Iv'e always wondered why the PMBR went through the trouble of making a Castlevania-themed stage instead of just retweaking Luigi's Mansion (even though Dracula's Castle looks really good, I'm not complaining here). Do they have a different policy regarding stages or something?

 

[AnOkayDM]

While I know Simon's inclusion might cause problems with Konami, but Iv'e always wondered why the PMBR went through the trouble of making a Castlevania-themed stage instead of just retweaking Luigi's Mansion (even though Dracula's Castle looks really good, I'm not complaining here). Do they have a different policy regarding stages or something?

They didn't make it, as far as I know. I've had it in my build since before I got P:M. Perhaps someone in the BR made it though and they included it based on that, or simply because it's a really good stage.

 

[Empyrean]

They didn't make it, as far as I know. I've had it in my build since before I got P:M. Perhaps someone in the BR made it though and they included it based on that, or simply because it's a really good stage.

Oh yeah, I had read about that somewhere, I can't believe I forgot. Thanks for reminding me! Their decision to use it is still weird though.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Oh yeah, I had read about that somewhere, I can't believe I forgot. Thanks for reminding me! Their decision to use it is still weird though.

The person who originally made it is named Robzdahero, it looks like. Perhaps something about Weegee's Mansion made it so it couldn't be fixed or edited properly? I don't know. Either way, I have no problem with it, since Castle Drac is way better than the Mansion!

Nice avatar, by the way. Al's not Christmasy though...

 

[Empyrean]

Agreed, DC is visually better than Luigi's Mansion.

I'm afraid I'm to lazy to do anything about my avi. I'll try to do something about it soon, hopefully before Christmas... Edit: There!

 

[Banjodorf]

I'll just keep wishing they could bend their policy for Simon, or that Konami wouldn't get upset over it. In a perfect world, I'd have K. Rool, Little Mac and Simon Belmont in Smash. Sigh.

 

[Deleted member]

Since Bowser Jr. now has minuscule chances in SSB4, I guess he could work in Project M. Having a cloned Bowser Jr. is better than no Bowser Jr.
I would definitely love to see a decloned Ganondorf and Black Shadow as well. We desperately need to have Ganondorf be given his own moveset. Black Shadow would be a win-win for those who want Ganondorf to get a new moveset and those who want to keep it.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I don't see why animations would be a factor in cloning. No matter what, some original animations will need to be made. Even then, you could probably use anyone's animations, while adjusting for bonesets.
They could've used ALL of Marth's animations for Roy, but they didn't want to. They wanted some original looking attacks. Why would they want to reuse a lot of animations for their own, original characters when there is no reason to do it this time around.

 

[Shin F.]

I don't see why animations would be a factor in cloning. No matter what, some original animations will need to be made. Even then, you could probably use anyone's animations, while adjusting for bonesets.
They could've used ALL of Marth's animations for Roy, but they didn't want to. They wanted some original looking attacks. Why would they want to reuse a lot of animations for their own, original characters when there is no reason to do it.

Even reusing some animations can help them cut down on how much time it takes to make a character. I mean, sure, they could make all original animations, but reusing them could cut that 700+ hours down to 600, or 500, or less depending on how many they do. It's not necessary, but it's a good quality to have.

Yeah, they could probably take animations from multiple characters, but if they choose a base with more animations to begin with, it lessens the load of copying them from other characters and adjusting for the different bonesets.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Even reusing some animations can help them cut down on how much time it takes to make a character. I mean, sure, they could make all original animations, but reusing them could cut that 700+ hours down to 600, or 500, or less depending on how many they do. It's not necessary, but it's a good quality to have.

Yeah, they could probably take animations from multiple characters, but if they choose a base with more animations to begin with, it lessens the load of copying them from other characters and adjusting for the different bonesets.

The point of my second paragraph was to explain that spending time making animations isn't a huge deal for them. The only reason to alter Roy's animations is to make him look less like Marth. Roy would've played differently, regardless of what animations they used. They could've saved even more time by using all of Marth's animations, but they chose not to, only to make Roy look more unique. A lot of people are picking bases only for animations to save time, but the BR clearly doesn't care about that as much as they care about staying true to the character.

 

[Empyrean]

The way I see it, animations are key in making the clone look significantly less like the base. Sure, some characters could benefit from the exact same animations, but like Alfonzo said, staying true to the character is what's most important. The best example here is the Mewtwo-Lucario clonage. Despite being a clone, Mewtwo still feels like Mewtwo, at least for me.

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing as Toad's chances are getting lower and lower for SSB4, I'd be happy if he made it into Project M.

 

[Anti Guy]

The way I see it, animations are key in making the clone look significantly less like the base. Sure, some characters could benefit from the exact same animations, but like Alfonzo said, staying true to the character is what's most important. The best example here is the Mewtwo-Lucario clonage. Despite being a clone, Mewtwo still feels like Mewtwo, at least for me.

Mewtwo doesn't count as a clone. A clone in the Smash Bros sense is a character that borrows many of the same animations and attacks but has different stats and parameters.

Mewtwo used Lucario as a base because it's necessary to do so in order to create a new character, and Lucario was the closest match. That's why it took Mewtwo so long (700+ hours) because he was being made completely unique.

 

[Solbliminal]

Expectations are high, but they wouldn't be any lower if it was Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem fans have standards, too

Don't forget that they CAN have original characters. Every Zelda game, as you said, has plenty of one-off characters and I'm sure Hyrule Warriors will be no exception.

As for Kafei, he is the son of the mayor of Termina. He's got to know some politics, and he's just as physically capable as Link.

I'm most certainly aware of Kafei's capabilities. My statement was more or less a sarcastic response to those who dismissed him for P:M. I hope the Zelda dev team does more with the character. Especially if they remake Majora's Mask. Give me a "Kafei's Quest" mode and I'll purchase the hell out of the remake.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Couple of things:

Dracula's Castle, apart from having the Castlevania logo in the stage select screen, is all original material based on public domain sources. They would have to change one image in one file to get Konami off their back. An entire character is a different story.

People seem to think that animations are all attacks, but those make up VERY FEW of animations used by the characters. Sure, they added a few attack differences to Roy, but they DIDN'T change his forward roll, backward roll, forward jump, back jump, forward double jump, backward double jump, fall, damaged high, damaged low, trip, tumble, swim, drowning, tech, wall tech, ceiling tech, wall jump, firing, walking firing, heavy item lift, heavy item carry, ledge hang, ledge attack, ledge roll, ledge jump, 100%+ ledge attack, 100%+ ledge roll, 100%+ ledge jump, swim, drown, tread, stunned, sleeping, bitten by Wario, being grabbed, being pummeled, being carried by Donkey Kong, AND MORE

 

[Banjodorf]

I mean, no one's disputing that Belmont is out of the question for potential legal dilemmas. I was just saying how I wish it *could* be. Such is the way of the world.

And you're absolutely right about animations, but that's probably part of the fun, figuring out what animations will be new, and which ones will be shared or similar to other characters.

Also, have we discussed Funky Kong at all? Obviously he's no K. Rool or even Dixie, but he seems easier to clone off of DK. Maybe just incorporating the surfboard and possibly barrel jet into his moveset. Could be cool!

 

[Generically Epic]

I mean, no one's disputing that Belmont is out of the question for potential legal dilemmas. I was just saying how I wish it *could* be. Such is the way of the world.

And you're absolutely right about animations, but that's probably part of the fun, figuring out what animations will be new, and which ones will be shared or similar to other characters.

Also, have we discussed Funky Kong at all? Obviously he's no K. Rool or even Dixie, but he seems easier to clone off of DK. Maybe just incorporating the surfboard and possibly barrel jet into his moveset. Could be cool!

You say it could be cool.
I say it could be... Funky.

 

[JediLink]

Seeing as Toad's chances are getting lower and lower for SSB4, I'd be happy if he made it into Project M.

What kind of moveset would Toad even have? Who would he be cloned from?

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

But that thing doesn't have a dress to look under!






please, dont judge me.

 

[Nitro_Hamster]

Hoooly crap. I don't mean to shoot you down, but do you have any idea how difficult and infeasible that would be for P:M?

Yea i know. I just thought it would be cool if hew as in smash bros 4 or project m.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Silly question. Sure, we would like to see original animations......

Silly question, you made this thread with the words Speculation and Discussion on its name a that what i was trying to do.

Personally, the idea of Lyn as an Ike clone does NOT fit her character / style at all. Like a fast Ike could be fun, but those attacks don't match her well. She'd be better a Marth or Link clone, but we don't need a second Marth or Link clone. It depends on how much we deviate from the base.

Maybe im not aware of yet, but i hope the Ike idea its moslty suggested but only as the base character, and not for taking moves from him because, Katana sword style, isn'even similar to a two-handed sword style.

 

[Bazkip]

Also, have we discussed Funky Kong at all? Obviously he's no K. Rool or even Dixie, but he seems easier to clone off of DK. Maybe just incorporating the surfboard and possibly barrel jet into his moveset. Could be cool!

I think it's more likely that Funky would be an alt costume rather than a whole new character.