New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Solbliminal]

That does not mean it can't be implemented, I did not even make it up it was a very popular fanmade move made a few years back.

What? I was defending your point. Lol.

As far as that is concerned, that's just an uppercut and a spinning mid air kick. Not really exclusive to just the street fighter characters.

PK Techno is literally a fanmade attack based off of what the maker thinks X character can do with his PK powers. Not to say that it's a bad idea, but I don't think the PMBR would use it.

I was just trying to defend his point since I know smash is known to give characters moves they normally don't have. A perfect example is Sonic's throw where he actually uses his quills to stab. Not something I would honestly expect of Sonic. But I can see where you are coming from.

 

[TopTierPichu]

The point is that the move is non-canonical and thus non existing outside its initial game. Creativity is never a bad thing. I mean last I checked, Lucario doesn't do Shoryukens and Tatsumaki's.

He kinda does in project m but thats beside the point

 

[turtletank]

Y'know, I've realized that Tom Nook is the only character with no downvotes; but he seems lack votes in general. With Villager off the table, I believe he would be a great addition to the game. Consider this: he's a unique character with plenty of moveset potential, he represents an iconic Nintendo franchise, and even has his own stage (AC stage, anyway).

Let's get some Tom Nook discussion going!

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Y'know, I've realized that Tom Nook is the only character with no downvotes

Now he's gonna get down-votes, foo....

 

[Beckstat]

What? I was defending your point. Lol.
quote] Sorry, I misread your post, when you said that the move was non-canonical and did not exist in the game, that is what got me. And about that what about Captain Falcon and Fox's moves? They never used those back in their games.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Y'know, I've realized that Tom Nook is the only character with no downvotes; but he seems lack votes in general. With Villager off the table, I believe he would be a great addition to the game. Consider this: he's a unique character with plenty of moveset potential, he represents an iconic Nintendo franchise, and even has his own stage (AC stage, anyway).

Let's get some Tom Nook discussion going!

Down votes
-1 Tom Nook, he is a clone of villager just for the sake of him being in Project M, totally unfeasible and would probably result in a cease and dismiss or what ever it is called

 

[andalsoandy]

Y'know, I've realized that Tom Nook is the only character with no downvotes; but he seems lack votes in general. With Villager off the table, I believe he would be a great addition to the game. Consider this: he's a unique character with plenty of moveset potential, he represents an iconic Nintendo franchise, and even has his own stage (AC stage, anyway).

Let's get some Tom Nook discussion going!

Hmmmmmm... Ok.

While he can use a lot of garp from Animal Crossing itself, I'm gonna get the more difficult moves out of the way.

He should be sort of a cross between his own character and SMB3 Raccoon Mario. Flicking his tail around to attack could use the SMB3 Raccoon tail SFX. Maybe he could float like Peach/Mewtwo by fluttering his tail. His Up-B could be a flying move like Meta Knight's Up-B (and he could glide as well) while playing the P-wing SFX.

It'd be hilarious.

 

[Solbliminal]

He kinda does in project m but thats beside the point

You...do realize that is exactly what I pointed out, don't you? He doesn't have those moves in Brawl or his other game appearances. That was my point.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Down votes
-1 Tom Nook, he is a clone of villager just for the sake of him being in Project M, totally unfeasible and would probably result in a cease and dismiss or what ever it is called

Nook is not a clone of the Villager. He could be, but he wouldn't be. An Animal Crossing moveset can be just about anything given the source material. There's no real reason for him to be a clone of the Villager, nor should he be.

Nook is not the Villager. He's the AC character that Smash deserves. There's no reason for a cease and desist unless the PMBR has no creativity, which they've shown is clearly untrue.

 

[Solbliminal]

Down votes
-1 Tom Nook, he is a clone of villager just for the sake of him being in Project M, totally unfeasible and would probably result in a cease and dismiss or what ever it is called

Cease and Desist, and Tom Nook wouldn't be a Villager clone. He has enough going for him to have a completely unique moveset. He might as well be the villain of Animal Crossing.

 

[andalsoandy]

A few more suggestions. They're all a bit of a stretch but I haven't heard them yet.

Yeah have fun getting angry at me. They're all just simple ideas I thought of when browsing the sticker gallery.

1. Is Balloon Fighter out of the question because of the Villager's Up-B in SSB4? I haven't seen him mentioned yet.
2. Playable Electroplankton... haha... never mind...
3. Playable Mite (SSE) because screw Primids.
4. Playable Excitebike (because wheelie jumps!)
5. K.K. freakin' Slider. GUITAR ATTACKS.
6. Playable Nintendog (PMBR DO IT)
7. Bubbles (Clu Clu Land)
8. Tamagon (Devil World) or even the Devil himself.
9. Louie (Pikmin 2) - Olimar's Luigi.
10. Toadsworth
10. Torchic/Cyndaquil - I actually have a really interesting idea for Torchic/Cyndaquil. Give him Pichu's moveset but with fire effects, and replace his Up-B with Fox's Up-B. Just an idea though. EDIT: Yeah he shouldn't have the recoil crap Pichu has though.
11. Starman (Earthbound)
12. Jill (Drill Dozer)
13. CHIBI-ROBO
14. Starfy, anyone?

I posted this a few pages back, anyone got any feedback?

 

[Shin F.]

Brain Cyclone is the stronger one.
http://www.wikibound.info/wiki/Brainshock

It's apparently the stronger one. I just thought it sounded more FS-like, because it brings to mind an area of effect/visually impressive attack (although I think in-game it still only targets one opponent). At the very least, it sounds more believable as a FS than normal-old Brainshock.

But it appears I've been beaten to the punch.

Brain Cyclone it is, then! So, the way it works is three waves of spheres like Tabuu's off waves, right? One to spike them to the ground, the next stuns them, and then a final one with lots of knockback, right?

I don't care for Tom Nook either way, so I won't say anything about it.

 

[cmart]

List of possible Clone Engine candidates based on ease of creation:

- Dark Samus
- Ninten
- Shadow (If he remains extremely similar to Sonic, meaning no projectiles like guns or chaos magic)
- Knuckles
- Pichu (Based on Roy's implementation, I'm positive her workload would be a little more then people are estimating)
- Telda
- Micaiah (Because of her using Tomes, I've decided that her animations would most likely have to deviate some from Zelda's)
- Claus/Masked Man
- Liquid Snake (Can much more closely resemble Snake, animation wise compared to Sami/Andy. Would still require a pretty elaborate model to be made though)
- Bowser Jr. (hasn't moved because of peoples want to give him the paint stick, which would require more than just giving him Bowser's moveset, but could be a tier lower if they decided to do just that)
- Hector
- Sami/Andy (Their animations would probably have to be tweaked more so than Liquid due to their different body sizes and proportions)
- Tetra (It depends on how they'd want to make this character. She could be one rank higher if she had an extremely similar moveset like Tink or Shiek, but I don't see that happening)
- Lip (Would require a creative moveset, could be a challenge. Could possibly play more like Lucas or Ness to lessen the workload)
- Lyn (She could be more of a challenge if they decide to incorporate her iaido style swordplay. Even if they make the model from scratch, they have a decent base to follow)
- Samurai Goroh (Would require a creative moveset, could be a challenge. Even if they make the model from scratch, they have a decent base to follow)
- Waluigi (Would require a creative moveset, could be a challenge. Even if they make the model from scratch, they have a decent base to follow)
- Tails (Flight animations and balancing a speedy character who can possibly float cancel, definitely a challenge)
- Black Shadow/Ganondorf (Even though they'd just have to create a model for Black Shadow, creating Dorfs sword moveset would be a challenge. This also implies that they are working on two characters at once, which is a pain)
- Krystal (First ever staff user, would be a challenge since they have no animations to base hers off of)
- Toad (Would require a creative moveset, could be a challenge. Just porting him over Mario would look extremely awkward, as his arms are tiny and all of the punching moves would be off because of this. Would require a lot of new animations then people are estimating)
- Tom Nook (Would require a creative moveset, could be a challenge. Animations would have to be made from scratch, but aren't as difficult as some of the higher tiers)
- Kamek (Would require a creative moveset, could be a challenge. Animations would have to be made from scratch, but aren't as difficult as some of the higher tiers)
- Saki (Possibly much more of a challenge, but could potentially resemble Pit more so than I originally thought)
- Dixie (The hair would be quite a challenge, especially involving grabs and pummels. Animating it wouldn't be easy either)
- Skull Kid (Would require a creative moveset, and his animations could potentially be extremely difficult. They could just make them look bat**** crazy though and it would work for the character)
- Ridley (Animating winged character's is never easy, and creating a suitable model with fluid animations would be a challenge. The workload could be a little less if they try to make him resemble Charizard as closely as possible, but the same could be said about the opposite)
- Mach Rider (Possible projectiles, bike riding, and whip/tethers would be a challenge)
- Sukapon (Even if the model would be simple, creating such a unique moveset would be a challenge. Also, unorthodox hit-boxes and has no real base to work from. All animations would be made from scratch, even if they base some of his moves off of other characters)
- Pokemon Trainer/Red (Would require a very creative moveset, and even though balancing isn't being brought up as much, a character who can possibly throw out random pokemon via pokeballs would be a nightmare. Because of people's varying concepts, wanting pokemon to appear for certain attacks, among other things, animating all of this could be extremely challenging)
- Paper Mario (Since people seem to want his moveset have his party members come in to help him, I've decided to place him here because of all the extra modeling work that would require or if that's even possible to begin with, he's basically in the same boat as Pokemon Trainer/Red)
- Boo (A character that is always floating... I expect this would be extremely challenging)
- King K. Rool (With his only possible base being DDD, and even that is far stretched, he would be extremely challenging)
- Issac (Moveset would require a lot of creativity, his psyenergy would be a challenge)
- Pulse & Minun (See Ice Climbers)

*new change list 11/27*
- New tiers added
- Micaiah bumped up 1 tier due to the possibilities of her tomes creating more challenges in animating her attacks.
- Sami/Andy, Tetra, Lip, Lyn, Goroh, and Waluigi have moved to the new Light Orange tier because of their deceptive difficulty, could potentially be Yellow or Orange.
- Skull Kid, Dixie, and Ridley has been moved to the new Dark Orange tier because of their deceptive difficulty, could potentially be Orange or Red.
- Saki moved down 2 tiers due to possibilities of more closely resembling Pit and taking balancing out of the equation
- Pulse & Minun have a tier of difficulty all to themselves

*old change list 11/26*
- Black Shadow/Ganondorf moved up 1 tier due to possible challenges creating a decent sword moveset for Dorf



Please note that characters within each tier are not in any particular order.

Thanks for being receptive to feedback. I would agree with this list now, without any meaningful objections.

 

[andalsoandy]

Brain Cyclone it is, then! So, the way it works is three waves of spheres like Tabuu's off waves, right? One to spike them to the ground, the next stuns them, and then a final one with lots of knockback, right?

Yep. It could have about as much range as DKs FS.

 

[Anti Guy]

50+ is a good guess for this thread considering I don't follow it, and 40,000+ was the download count last I checked for P:M, I didn't pull them out of my ***

150 is still WAY too small

You HAVE to be lying that you took statistics, if you did you must not have been paying attention because you forgot one of the most important rules of applying a survey to the general population, THE SAMPLE SURVEYED HAS TO BE RANDOM

This isn't random, this is a board for competitive smash players that represents a very specific group of people, that alone makes this "poll" as a representation of what the majority wants, invalid

I'm not sure if you're aware of this simple fact or not, but this is THE OFFICIAL FORUM FOR PROJECT M. It's the one linked to on the official site. And as far as I know, it's practically the only forum (outside of random IGN stuff). If people want to discuss P:M, they come here. It's not by any means perfect, but it's the closest it's going to get.

Second, not everyone here is competitive. Many people aren't. I'm not. I don't have the time to be competitive; I can only play in my spare time for fun (I'm still competitive casually, but am nowhere near tournament-level skill, which is usually what people mean by "competitive play(ers)"). And many people have already stated that they're not. On the other end of the spectrum, people who download P:M also tend to be more competitive, which would make them more likely to be on the forum.

And regarding the 8% margin of error... Yeah, that IS useless if you're trying to get an actual number and trying to be precise. Saying a survey poll for elections could be anywhere along an 16% spread would be a horrible poll. However, the point here isn't to get an exact number. Who the **** cares? The point is to stratify characters. So someone might have a support from 75 to 86%, for example. That's enough. That means they're liked by a clear majority. That's all I'm aiming for.

 

[Chzrm3]

That's pretty intense! How do people feel about their choices now, knowing how potentially difficult some of them would be? Some of the most popular choices (Ridley and Isaac) are in the "OMG WHY WOULD YOU ASK US TO MAKE THIS" tier, which makes me feel really bad for the PMBR, haha.

 

[Anti Guy]

Y'know, I've realized that Tom Nook is the only character with no downvotes; but he seems lack votes in general. With Villager off the table, I believe he would be a great addition to the game. Consider this: he's a unique character with plenty of moveset potential, he represents an iconic Nintendo franchise, and even has his own stage (AC stage, anyway).

Let's get some Tom Nook discussion going!

Tom Nook actually has 6 down votes right now (10, 14, 6). The character with no downvotes currently is Masked Man/Claus (19, 12, 0). So if people want to down vote him and just forgot to, now's your chance

 

[turtletank]

Down votes
-1 Pichu he is a clone of Pikachu just for the sake of him being in Project M.

Fixed.

But your logic baffles me. How can Nook be a clone when he has no established moveset? I struggle to see how his inclusion would warrant a C&D.

 

[Kiigaming]

This list is crazy long to find out what's what, so I'm gonna say I'd think something like Lyndis and Gray Fox seem to be appealing doable choices.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am downvoting Masked Man. Mother does not need as many characters as it has games. Mother 3 especially does not need two characters. People complain about over-representation for FE via Lyn, but for Mother its far, far worse, especially considering how Mother 3 already has a playable character, the Mother series itself is complete and finished, and Porkey is the main antagonist of that game anyway (and the character that connects Mother 2 and 3).

In general, Masked Man gives off some serious Geno vibes, and that is NOT a good thing.

 

[red9rd]

And I would like to make my first vote

+1 Claus/Masked Man

 

[Saito]

I am downvoting Masked Man. Mother does not need as many characters as it has games. Mother 3 especially does not need two characters. People complain about over-representation for FE via Lyn, but for Mother its far, far worse, especially considering how Mother 3 already has a playable character, the Mother series itself is complete and finished, and Porkey is the main antagonist of that game anyway (and the character that connects Mother 2 and 3).

In general, Masked Man gives off some serious Geno vibes, and that is NOT a good thing.

Why does this feel spiteful?

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I am downvoting Masked Man. Mother does not need as many characters as it has games. Mother 3 especially does not need two characters. People complain about over-representation for FE via Lyn, but for Mother its far, far worse, especially considering how Mother 3 already has a playable character, the Mother series itself is complete and finished, and Porkey is the main antagonist of that game anyway (and the character that connects Mother 2 and 3).

In general, Masked Man gives off some serious Geno vibes, and that is NOT a good thing.

I don't exactly disagree, but why do people keep bringing up a franchise not needing "as many characters as it has games"?

It seems like an arbitrary restriction to place on a character/franchise, especially considering that I don't believe PM's primary goal in adding characters is perfect representation.

Again, I'm not really disagreeing with a down-vote for the Masked Man (after all, my only reasons for a half-vote is because he looks cool and gets people excited), but a third Mother character, in my mind, would not be an example of over-representation.

 

[ChronoBound]

Seriously, if there is one series that has more than enough content already in Smash Bros. its Mother.

Masked Man is basically the Mother equivalent of Geno. A side-character relegated to only one game (a Japan-only one at that) to a game that already has plentiful representation.

That Mother could have three characters while DK and Metroid are only stuck with is particularly entitled.

 

[ChronoBound]

Why does this feel spiteful?

Because you (and the other Masked Man fans) disagree with it. Does not make it any less true or a less legitimate grievance.

 

[Saito]

Because you (and the other Masked Man fans) disagree with it. Does not make it any less true or a less legitimate grievance.

I have no idea who the masked man is. I've never played an earthbound game.

It just seemed to come out of nowhere right as soon as this was posted.

Tom Nook actually has 6 down votes right now (10, 14, 6). The character with no downvotes currently is Masked Man/Claus (19, 12, 0). So if people want to down vote him and just forgot to, now's your chance

 

[ChronoBound]

I have no idea who the masked man is. I've never played an earthbound game.

It just seemed to come out of nowhere right as soon as this was posted.

I thought my prior criticism of Masked Man counted as a downvote by Anit-Guy, I just went ahead and made it more formal because I found out it didn't get counted.

 

[Starcutter]

STAP IT! STAP IT RIGHT NOW!
this "Over Repped" thing is completely invalid if there is way more overruling factors! Fire Emblem, Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, Earthbound, and even POKEMON could have another rep if said rep is good enough.

that's my opinion anyways

 

[ChronoBound]

You literally have fanboys in this thread that think Mother is a bigger series than Mario and Pokemon. Outside of this thread, Masked Man rarely ever comes up.

And yes, over-representation is a solid argument. Especially considering there are still major characters from other franchises still not in yet.

I don't care if other people in this thread hate me for my views, I have been speaking truth to power since the pre-Melee days. And I will sacrifice popularity for my own thoughts every time.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Because you (and the other Masked Man fans) disagree with it. Does not make it any less true or a less legitimate grievance.

Whether or not the downvote had legitimate concerns, I think some people are seeing it as spiteful because you only voted him down (formally) once you saw his current vote totals, and you have taken multiple shots at the fans, not just the character.
You're also free to downvote a character. Go ahead. It's your opinion. Congratulations.

I think it's safe to say the argument should end here.

 

[ChronoBound]

and you have taken multiple shots at the fans, not just the character.
.

The only shot I took was that it was the truth (that there are fans that legitimately believe Mother is bigger and more popular than most Nintendo franchises). Just because the truth hurts, does not make it any less true.

The only other thing that could be construed as a "shot" is the comparison to the Geno fanbase, and honestly as someone who has been around since the pre-Brawl era, they look pretty similar to them, especially the behavior of jumping on anyone critical of the character.

 

[Saito]

You literally have fanboys in this thread that think Mother is a bigger series than Mario and Pokemon. Outside of this thread, Masked Man never comes up.

Not to say that it isn't a solid choice.

Personally I don't see the power in the masked man, but I'm not about to downvote someone I know nothing about.

Ness, and Ninten are very similar from what I've seen and from the little knowledge I have, Lucas and the Masked man are related somehow. (Twin brothers I think.)

We can expect them to be similar but if I remember correctly the PMBR said something along the lines about Lucas having the hardest moveset to rebalance, how hard would it be to make a clone, with some even more unique traits thanks to that armor (if it actually does something) while not making him too similar to Lucas or Ness?

 

[Starcutter]

You literally have fanboys in this thread that think Mother is a bigger series than Mario and Pokemon. Outside of this thread, Masked Man rarely ever comes up.

And yes, over-representation is a solid argument. Especially considering there are still major characters from other franchises still not in yet.

I don't care if other people in this thread hate me for my views, I have been speaking truth to power since the pre-Melee days. And I will sacrifice popularity for my own thoughts every time.

I really do think if there is better characters in other franchises they should get in first, since they are better.

it's always upsetting when a cool character gets downvoted not because of their own merits, but because of their franchises. example: Isaac is better than most of the potential characters. thus, he would be the best to be added. Tetra would ALSO be a great addition, almost as good as Isaac IMO but some people shrug her off as a "6th zelda rep whatever don't want" and go to Goroh, since F-Zero is under-repped.

(btw i have no objections about goroh it was just an example)

 

[Chzrm3]

You literally have fanboys in this thread that think Mother is a bigger series than Mario and Pokemon. Outside of this thread, Masked Man rarely ever comes up.

And yes, over-representation is a solid argument. Especially considering there are still major characters from other franchises still not in yet.

I don't care if other people in this thread hate me for my views, I have been speaking truth to power since the pre-Melee days. And I will sacrifice popularity for my own thoughts every time.

Haha, I don't think it has to be that serious. This thread is all in good fun - I actually enjoy/look forward to the posts here more than any other part of the forums. Nobody's going to hate you for what you're saying or anything severe like that. =)

I do think that something much more important than over-representation is sitting right on this very page, though... In a big, rainbow-colored wall of beautiful text. :D It's even got a seal of approval from cmart! If there's anything that's a definitive mark against a character, it's how hard that character would be for our beloved PMBR to make. I feel like we really need to take a good, hard look at those names in red and dark-red, and wonder if they're worth it in that light.

That's tough for me to say, because Dixie's on that list in the "omg hard" tier.

That Mother could have three characters while DK and Metroid are only stuck with is particularly entitled.

Isn't that true of Fire Emblem, too? There's a big push in this thread for a fourth FE rep - if it's a knock against Masked Man that he'd be over-representing Mother, then it's a knock against Lyn. The idea of Fire Emblem having 4 reps while DK has 2 is enough to make me ship my pants via Kmart's excellent shipping services! There are certainly arguments to be made in both directions here, but the bottom line is that, from a purely rep-based perspective, DK and Metroid should probably both be getting pushed to 4. And that's really not a fun way to think about the thread or approach character decisions.

(although Dark Samus is green-tier, so maybe Dark Samus + Ridley? K. Rool and Dixie are both so, so red though. @_@)

 

[ChronoBound]

(although Dark Samus is green-tier, so maybe Dark Samus + Ridley? K. Rool and Dixie are both so, so red though. @_@)

Metroid and DK would be fine with three. DK is the only one where four would make sense (probably Nintendo's most popular series outside the Big 3).

 

[Starcutter]

I don't think I've done this yet, so I'll

+1/2 vote Dixie
+1/2 vote K Rool

 

[TopTierPichu]

You...do realize that is exactly what I pointed out, don't you? He doesn't have those moves in Brawl or his other game appearances. That was my point.

Lucario is a fighting type pokemon, its not Shoryuken, its sky uppercut, its not what ever it is spin kick or whatever, they are representititve of the pokemon games PK Techno dosnt exist

 

[Starcutter]

So I was looking for things that DID appear in brawl and this was there.

(Deku) Scrub Link top tier.



(but really this would be cool, way better then young link as another link.)

 

[Chzrm3]

Honestly let's just use the remaining clone engine slots on Zelda characters, they're all amazing. : >

Skull Kid, Tetra, Mikau, Deku Link, and Groose?

Honestly even that's not enough, you miss out on Goron Link, the trolling potential of Tingle, people's ideas for Zant, dual-wielding Toon Ganondorf....

One day. Maybe by 2025, when the clone engine has been opened up to the people and we've gotten our grubby little hands on it and created some heinous abominations, I'll be able to look at the roster and see nothing but Zelda.

*COUGH HACK WHEEZE*

So here's a list of some characters that seem to be much easier to implement than the others we've discussed. That big ol' tier list isn't necessarily perfect, and issues always pop up, but this is probably an interesting place to start from.

- Dark Samus
- Ninten
- Shadow (If he remains extremely similar to Sonic, meaning no projectiles like guns or chaos magic)
- Knuckles
- Pichu (Based on Roy's implementation, I'm positive her workload would be a little more then people are estimating)
- Telda

So, how do you feel about these characters, everyone? I'm not saying "what if this was the list" because that doesn't really make sense, but are there any on this short list of manageable requests that you'd be excited about?

The one thing that immediately strikes me is that no one on this short list has been wildly popular in this thread, but there are some playstyles I'd be very interested in. Toon Zelda would probably be a blast, I'd love to see what they'd do with Dark Samus, and ofc I'm a Pichu nerd/lover/fanboy/evil that's destroying Project M kinda guy. =) I'm not too sweet on Shadow or Knuckles, just because they'd feel...... weird.... and Ninten (while awesome) kind of has that same problem.

Thoughts?

 

[Starcutter]

- Dark Samus
- Ninten
- Shadow (If he remains extremely similar to Sonic, meaning no projectiles like guns or chaos magic)
- Knuckles
- Pichu (Based on Roy's implementation, I'm positive her workload would be a little more then people are estimating)
- Telda

I don't like really any of those.

(sorry fans of those guys.)

Skull Kid, Tetra, Mikau, Deku Link, and Groose?

yeah but you are forgetting someone