New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Malion]

What exactly would Tetra bring to the table aside from her star power? Not trying to say she wouldn't bring anything, genuinely asking what she'd add to the metagame.

She brings sass to the metagame. Which is all we can ask for.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

subjective? I want Waluigi in but I know him having spot will not be put to "better use" because he has a PSA.........and possibly might make SSB4......

what do you mean "wouldn't be happy with just a PSA"?? How do you think Project M makes its characters?

Understand that we can easily put these characters in ourselves..........why not let PM do stuff that hasn't been done? or won't be expected in SSB4? isn't this for the greater good? expanding our library of characters to use?

Otherwise I get the notion that everybody just wants made by Project M because it "feels" official....despite finding the same thing in PSAs that are already made.....


If its a matter of adding new moves for Pichu.........Hey! that can be done.....anybody can do that for you.

Anything you want with a character for PM can be done for PM WITHOUT PM using a slot.

Do you guys all understand this?

PSA's are typically clunky, unbalanced, unprofessional, low quality and as someone pointed out earlier, are made with the brawl engine, which is a whole 'nother mess of it's own. I'm pretty sure the PMBR doesn't use the PSA system either; they have to have their own way of making movesets. People don't want their picks used for the clone engine just because it'll be official. People want their picks used because they know the PMBR will do a fantastic job.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

subjective? I want Waluigi in but I know him having spot will not be put to "better use" because he has a PSA.........and possibly might make SSB4......

what do you mean "wouldn't be happy with just a PSA"?? How do you think Project M makes its characters?

Understand that we can easily put these characters in ourselves..........why not let PM do stuff that hasn't been done? or won't be expected in SSB4? isn't this for the greater good? expanding our library of characters to use?

Otherwise I get the notion that everybody just wants their character made by Project M because it "feels" official....despite finding the same thing in PSAs that are already made.....


If its a matter of adding new moves for Pichu.........Hey! that can be done.....anybody can do that for you.

Anything you want with a character for PM can be done for PM WITHOUT PM using a slot.

Do you guys all understand this?

Do you even know how the clone engine works? You can`t just make a folder put in a psa for any character you want and have it work perfectly. Project M has several engine changes that would make brawl PSA`s either freeze the game or do crazy things like mess up other players physics. Unlike a PSA, the PMBR makes there characters using a combination of character specific files and the gct file, meaning to get a non PMBR made clone engine character we would need to find out how to use the clone engine (which according to the PMBR, even they have trouble understanding how it works) and spend a good 600+ hours making models, animations, sound effects, ect. that wouldn`t require changing the base character.

 

[red9rd]

To bad This breaks the rules

Thats what I meant to post.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Thats what I meant to post.

You, uh, you missed the first time.

 

[Anti Guy]

One of those ten remaining posts should be you responding re: "So you want a bad character?" You asked me a question about Pichu, and I (as well as lots of other people) gave you pretty solid answers. Once again, that seems to be the way of this thread - people call out Pichu, the Pichu supporters defend him, those defenses get ignored, and then a page or so later, the same exact issues with Pichu are raised, the same people defend him, and the cycle continues.

It'd at least be nice if, just once, someone would say "Oh, okay. I still don't want Pichu, but I see where you're coming from." That would probably stop all the Pichu ruckus, and then we could move on to all saying "Hey guys, wouldn't Isaac be cool?" "YUP!" "That's cool"

If you want me to respond, fine. The response seems hypocritical -- you talk about the pleasure you had in winning from handicaps because Pichu was legitimately bad in Melee, but now you want him to be a strong glass cannon. Yes, that would be high risk/high reward, but then by actually making him decent like this, you take out what originally made him so endearing to you -- his underdog status.

 

[Starcutter]

What exactly would Tetra bring to the table aside from her star power? Not trying to say she wouldn't bring anything, genuinely asking what she'd add to the metagame.

well, um... she's a pirate? the metagame needs more pirates.


but seriously, she could made like a stereotypical pirate, where rushing in and pillaging is the best option. maybe all (or at least most) of her moves could have ridiculously high priority.

 

[Chzrm3]

That's precisely what I've been doing. I understand why people want Pichu and that he could be good. I simply just personally don't think he's a worthy addition.

Can we all agree to shut the everliving **** up about him now? Please? Ugh.

Yeah, I guess I am being kind of argumentative. : > I still want that Pichu-hating tomato to acknowledge my feelings, but I definitely wouldn't mind moving on. Plus I wanna talk about other characters too, like Dixie. She hasn't been talked about all that much.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Yeah, I guess I am being kind of argumentative. : > I still want that Pichu-hating tomato to acknowledge my feelings, but I definitely wouldn't mind moving on. Plus I wanna talk about other characters too, like Dixie. She hasn't been talked about all that much.

Let's talk about Dixie! Or Tetra. How would Tetra play?

 

[trojanpooh]

She brings sass to the metagame. Which is all we can ask for.

No, but seriously. Just because a character is cool or popular doesn't mean they'd bring anything new or interesting to the table. How would she play and what would be interesting about that?

 

[Chzrm3]

If you want me to respond, fine. The response seems hypocritical -- you talk about the pleasure you had in winning from handicaps because Pichu was legitimately bad in Melee, but now you want him to be a strong glass cannon. Yes, that would be high risk/high reward, but then by actually making him decent like this, you take out what originally made him so endearing to you -- his underdog status.

That's fair enough! He would certainly be a tough balancing act to get exactly right. With some tweaking I think they could find a place for him on that luigi/pikachu melee tier where he's an underdog but still a threat, but it'd be tricky. There's the potential he could just be game-breakingly op, which would totally defeat the point (although it would be kind of hilarious).

I'm content leaving it at that. =) (I mean the debate, not Pichu's status in PM as a game-breakingly overpowered vehicle of death haha).

 

[red9rd]

You, uh, you missed the first time.

Yeah I still had the link to the GNR video copied and I ended up posting it.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I also wanted to know earlier, but I was wondering if anyone knows if the Pokemon trainer's slot could be modified and used as an 8th slot? I don't think they have ever tried that.

I think he is probably one of those slots...

Red Alloy
Green Alloy
Blue Alloy
Yellow Alloy
Pokemon Trainer

 

[Chzrm3]

Let's talk about Dixie! Or Tetra. How would Tetra play?

Ooh yeah, I've always wondered that myself. I think Tetra would be kind of cool as a hybrid of Sheik with a lot of cutlass attacks mixed in. Sheik is already so fast that it wouldn't make sense for Tetra to be a "fast Sheik", so I think if you slow Tetra down a bit and change some of the attacks a lot, you'd get an interesting character.

There are a few attacks on Tetra that you'd definitely want to change. Like, Sheik's uair and bair use her really long legs, so Tetra could definitely get something different for those. In fact, changing up all of her aerials would make her feel completely different, since such a big part of Sheik's playstyle is dunking someone with a fair or an uair.

But maybe Tetra would be better cloned off of someone else. Hmm....

 

[Starcutter]

I think he is probably one of those slots...

Red Alloy
Green Alloy
Blue Alloy
Yellow Alloy
Pokemon Trainer

oh


and also

No, but seriously. Just because a character is cool or popular doesn't mean they'd bring anything new or interesting to the table. How would she play and what would be interesting about that?

Let's talk about Dixie! Or Tetra. How would Tetra play?

but seriously, she could made like a stereotypical pirate, where rushing in and pillaging is the best option. maybe all (or at least most) of her moves could have ridiculously high priority.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I think he is probably one of those slots...

Red Alloy
Green Alloy
Blue Alloy
Yellow Alloy
Pokemon Trainer

I'm fairly certain the clone engine uses the Forbidden Seven data, considering they had things like CSS data and the like.

 

[shinhed-echi]

oh

Just taking a wild guess, lol.

But P.T. should be a character. It's just unfair that he was removed from the roster even if his role was "minimal".
Maybe I was a fan of the TRAINER, and not necessarily his pokemon. :/

But... by some reason that escapes me, a lot of SSB players hate him. (Most likely because they didn't predict him appearing)

I'm fairly certain the clone engine uses the Forbidden Seven data, considering they had things like CSS data and the like.

Ah, I figures. I was just guessing, lol.
I totally forgot that Roy and Mewtwo already took over those slots.
And since they're planning on fixing the single player campaigns, there can't be any Alloy replacing.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

oh

I`m fairly sure Pokemon Trainer is just a background texture while squirtle, ivy, and charazard are the actual character slots

 

[Shin F.]

We are ok with Roy because he is a fire emblem lord, and he had a unique moveset with a few good aspects. He also had much different physics and mechanics than marth. And Shadow is more exciting than tails and robotnik. All robotnik does is sit in his egg hover ship and fight inside robots, he wouldnt work, no matter which way you slice it. And that leaves us with Tails vs Shadow, where shadow gets more light than tails nowadays and he actually has fighting powers, in the game tails is just a sonic that can fly, and fly in planes. My point is, the only villan worth adding from the sonic games would be shadow, and the only sonic clone character worth adding is shadow, shadow outclasses tails and evcery other character, he is also the second most popular sonic character and the most downloaded psa on brawlvaults, he is better than tails

Tails is definitely more iconic than Shadow. Shadow is Wario to Sonic's Mario, where Tails is more like Sonic's Luigi and Knuckles would be... uh... ...

Anyways, Tails isn't just a pure Sonic clone. He has attacks that use his tails and he also could have blasters and bombs to separate him from Sonic, and he has the ability to fly and use his plane. He could be just as unique as Shadow, if not more so. I really hope no one takes offense to this next statement, because I don't want to start an argument over the topic, but I have to say it. In my opinion, Shadow is far too overrated, just like other dark anti-heroes like Vegeta or Sasuke.

subjective? I want Waluigi in but I know him having spot will not be put to "better use" because he has a PSA.........and possibly might make SSB4......

what do you mean "wouldn't be happy with just a PSA"?? How do you think Project M makes its characters?

Understand that we can easily put these characters in ourselves..........why not let PM do stuff that hasn't been done? or won't be expected in SSB4? isn't this for the greater good? expanding our library of characters to use?

Otherwise I get the notion that everybody just wants their character made by Project M because it "feels" official....despite finding the same thing in PSAs that are already made.....


If its a matter of adding new moves for Pichu.........Hey! that can be done.....anybody can do that for you.

Anything you want with a character for PM can be done for PM WITHOUT PM using a slot.

Do you guys all understand this?

It's not that Project M is more official, it's that they're so much better than just about anyone else, and the fact that only they know how to properly use the Clone Engine. Anyone can replace a PSA - they can put Pichu over Pikachu no problem, but PMBR are the only ones who can add one. And everyone would rather have characters added than replaced.

 

[Malion]

No, but seriously. Just because a character is cool or popular doesn't mean they'd bring anything new or interesting to the table. How would she play and what would be interesting about that?

Well I assume she'd have that toonish quality of being light and speedy. She's a pirate so swordplay is a must but I was thinking something like quick weak jabs. Sort of like how Sheik works against her enemies. It's quantity over quality. Her using sneaky underhanded tactics like bombs and poison I could see working for her as well. Maybe have her have a sort of pitfall planting move as well? It's more about tricky and overwhelming than overt power with her.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Ooh yeah, I've always wondered that myself. I think Tetra would be kind of cool as a hybrid of Sheik with a lot of cutlass attacks mixed in. Sheik is already so fast that it wouldn't make sense for Tetra to be a "fast Sheik", so I think if you slow Tetra down a bit and change some of the attacks a lot, you'd get an interesting character.

There are a few attacks on Tetra that you'd definitely want to change. Like, Sheik's uair and bair use her really long legs, so Tetra could definitely get something different for those. In fact, changing up all of her aerials would make her feel completely different, since such a big part of Sheik's playstyle is dunking someone with a fair or an uair.

But maybe Tetra would be better cloned off of someone else. Hmm....

Like I said, I think she would be cloned well off of Toon Link. Same proportions, and they both use swords. The question is what to do from there, how to make her different.

Honestly, I think Toon Ganon would be a really good choice. He'd be very heavy but also attack very quickly with those dual swords of his. It'd be an interesting playstyle.

 

[Starcutter]

But... by some reason that escapes me, a lot of SSB players hate him. (Most likely because they didn't predict him appearing)

that's such a stupid reason to not want Pokemon trainer in!

I`m fairly sure Pokemon Trainer is just a background texture while squirtle, ivy, and charazard are the actual character slots

no, he has his own folder. (at least, I think that's how it works)

 

[Deleted member]

I suppose it would be in my best of interest to vote, even if my votes will mean nothing in the long run.

My votes:

-Samurai Goroh
-Ridley
-Waluigi
-PENDING
-PENDING

Half-Votes:
-Black Shadow

My downvotes:

-Pichu: I'm a Pokémon fan, and I even find the saturation of Pokémon to be of excess as it is; Pichu makes it worse. No sense in forcing in a joke clone, either.
-Paper Mario: I'm going to be a biased prick here, but it angers me to see Paper Mario as an option "unique" from Mario when Dr. Mario is nothing but a costume with minor aesthetic changes.
-Plusle & Minun: Same reason as Pichu, but with the added twist of being an option I despise. Oh goodie, two Pikaclones for the price of one. Gag me with a rusty spoon.
-Lyn: She's overrated and unwarranted. 'Nuff said.
-Krystal: Yet another one that needs not much said.

 

[Shin F.]

that's such a stupid reason to not want Pokemon trainer in!


no, he has his own folder. (at least, I think that's how it works)

Squirtle, Ivy and Charizard all have their own folders, and Pokemon Trainer's folder has the data for himself and anything the pokemon share - his model and animations, the down special that changes them, and the Final Smash data.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

My votes:

-Black Shadow/Ganondorf
My downvotes:

-Lyn: She's overrated and unwarranted. 'Nuff said.

I'm sorry. If you read earlier pages in this thread, you'll know what I'm about to go on about.
What exactly makes Black Shadow a warranted and worthy character?
Please, I'm just curious.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Argh. Guys, can we just...can we try and not comment on each other's votes? Golden just downvoted Paper Mario, which I disagree with, but I don't think it's worth fighting over.

Let people posts their votes in peace. Let's talk about what actual characters would play like in this thread instead of having another seventy pages of pointless bickering. Please?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Argh. Guys, can we just...can we try and not comment on each other's votes? Golden just downvoted Paper Mario, which I disagree with, but I don't think it's worth fighting over.

Let people posts their votes in peace. Let's talk about what actual characters would play like in this thread instead of having another seventy pages of pointless bickering. Please?

But what about suggestions that go against the rules of the clone engine? What about people who upvote or downvote for the stupidest of reasons like "This character is from the first game I ever owned" or "I have never heard of this character" respectively?

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Argh. Guys, can we just...can we try and not comment on each other's votes? Golden just downvoted Paper Mario, which I disagree with, but I don't think it's worth fighting over.

Let people posts their votes in peace. Let's talk about what actual characters would play like in this thread instead of having another seventy pages of pointless bickering. Please?

I see what your saying, but with stance changes being a thing now, the whole Black Shadow/Ganondorf thing is COMPLETELY redundant. Not only was it a bad idea before, but now we don't even NEED a clone slot to give Ganondorf his '"righteous" moveset. That was really the only purpose of the Black Shadow/Ganondorf idea, so now any more votes for that idea are essentially just votes for Black Shadow, as BRILLIANT and compelling of a character he is.

 

[Deleted member]

-Primary villain of the F-Zero franchise (Yes, I'm aware he's Deathborn's ***** in GX) and is iconic, even to where people that don't play the games would know him due to the Falcon Punch meme.
-Provides if nothing else, something that fans actually want; a method to declone Ganondorf while still keeping his old style of fighting in some form.
-Still decently requested to this day (especially in Japan) for Smash, more than what could be said about quite a few of the options.

But honestly, I'm voting for the option specifically for the second point. I'm in it for the Ganondorf option.
Otherwise, my vote would be for Samurai Goroh. (Still haven't decided if he's one of my main votes or half-votes).
So pardon me if I don't put in much effort in my points.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

But what about suggestions that go against the rules of the clone engine? What about people who upvote or downvote for the stupidest of reasons like "This character is from the first game I ever owned" or "I have never heard of this character" respectively?

It actually might be best to let the bad reasons for downvotes sit quietly. If you ask for an explanation, you get a repeat criticism that sparks another war. If you ignore it and the reasoning is poor it doesn't get counted.

 

[Johnknight1]

That's precisely what I've been doing. I understand why people want Pichu and that he could be good. I simply just personally don't think he's a worthy addition.

Can we all agree to shut the everliving **** up about him now? Please? Ugh.

So how about Plusle and Minun=???

 

[Deleted member]

I see; Ganondorf has a stance system.

Very well, Goroh will take the spot on my vote instead while B.S. becomes a half-vote if that is acceptable. (Or am I going to be asked to explain why he is worthy too?)

 

[Johnknight1]

You know what I just realized about Project M=???

It's the first Smash game (well, mod) that doesn't eliminate the roster, and has TWO CLONES!!!! (Mewtwo and Snake)

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I see; Ganondorf has a stance system.

Very well, Goroh will take the spot on my vote instead while B.S. becomes a half-vote if that is acceptable. (Or am I going to be asked to explain why he is worthy too?)

Well he doesn't have a stance system YET. In the P.M. 3.0 trailer, it was shown that Samus can change to Ice beams by hitting side taunt. There have been PSA's for Ganondorf for the specific purpose of giving him a stance change, so in theory, PM could do it better if they wanted to.
And no, you will not be asked for Goroh's significance. He's a great character. Sorry, I was just really salty seeing all of those Black Shadow/Ganondorf votes, despite these recent upbringings, and the fact that Black Shadow is really lame.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

What exactly would Tetra bring to the table aside from her star power? Not trying to say she wouldn't bring anything, genuinely asking what she'd add to the metagame.



idiot/10

how so?

 

[Paradoxium]

Tails is definitely more iconic than Shadow. Shadow is Wario to Sonic's Mario, where Tails is more like Sonic's Luigi and Knuckles would be... uh... ...

Anyways, Tails isn't just a pure Sonic clone. He has attacks that use his tails and he also could have blasters and bombs to separate him from Sonic, and he has the ability to fly and use his plane. He could be just as unique as Shadow, if not more so. I really hope no one takes offense to this next statement, because I don't want to start an argument over the topic, but I have to say it. In my opinion, Shadow is far too overrated, just like other dark anti-heroes like Vegeta or Sasuke.

Shadow is like Wario? Do i need to remind you that wario is in the game? And that he has his own games which did fairly well. And that hes like, an important nintendo character now (well maybe i dunno)

Tails isnt a pure sonic clone, neither is shadow. Tails attacks with his tails, shadow attacks with his weapons and psychic powers. Tails doesnt have blasters to use in his moveset, but whats this? Shadow HAS guns and blasters.

Tails has a plane? Shadow has a motorcycle and a car.

Tails is just a sidekick, i doubt he has accomplished anything up to the calibur of shadow. Tails is only meant to be a sidekick, and that is how he is portayed in the games. If any sonic character was to make it in, it would have to be shadow, and plus rivals make good characters in smash

 

[Deleted member]

I'm a fan of both, but Goroh is the lame one.

Fortunately, that lameness is what makes him great THE BEST IN THE GALAXY!
Only thing lame about B.S. is that he's Deathborn's *****. But to be fair....it's kind of hard not to be.

EDIT: Above user, please don't make Shadow fans look bad. It fills me with a certain degree of guilt...

 

[trojanpooh]

how so?

The stuff you said was stupid an uneducated.

 

[AnOkayDM]

But what about suggestions that go against the rules of the clone engine? What about people who upvote or downvote for the stupidest of reasons like "This character is from the first game I ever owned" or "I have never heard of this character" respectively?

If they go against the rules, then yeah, point that out. "Stupid" reasoning should be ignored by the person actually counting the votes, it's not our place to yell at them.

I see what your saying, but with stance changes being a thing now, the whole Black Shadow/Ganondorf thing is COMPLETELY redundant. Not only was it a bad idea before, but now we don't even NEED a clone slot to give Ganondorf his '"righteous" moveset. That was really the only purpose of the Black Shadow/Ganondorf idea, so now any more votes for that idea are essentially just votes for Black Shadow, as BRILLIANT and compelling of a character he is.

Is no one going to talk about how giving Ganon even a few extra moves, let alone an entire set, accessible via a taunt, is going to throw off his entire balance as a character? Very slightly changing the properties on a couple moves is very different from adding all new ones. So no, the "stance change" thing is probably not going to happen.

So how about Plusle and Minun=???

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Do you even know how the clone engine works? You can`t just make a folder put in a psa for any character you want and have it work perfectly. Project M has several engine changes that would make brawl PSA`s either freeze the game or do crazy things like mess up other players physics. Unlike a PSA, the PMBR makes there characters using a combination of character specific files and the gct file, meaning to get a non PMBR made clone engine character we would need to find out how to use the clone engine (which according to the PMBR, even they have trouble understanding how it works) and spend a good 600+ hours making models, animations, sound effects, ect. that wouldn`t require changing the base character.

ok ok....lets see what happens, but without the childish insults.