New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Please no. I think the mechanic is awesome, but it shouldn't be used willy-nilly.
It's a very interesting addition to Samus and I'd personally like it to stay limited to her - if they'd add it to a second character people everywhere would beg the PMBR to do something similar for their character and all hope will be lost.

changing pokemon using taunts

 

[TheTuninator]

We should probably remake the thread if everyone's going to be voting anew.

 

[trojanpooh]

But he IS represented, he's represented through Pikachu and has been since Brawl, as Pika has Alt colors that used to belong to Pichu. I don't think the representation argument works here, since most of the fanbase agrees that Brawl Pika is Melee Pichu. Doc is an alt. Roy and Mewtwo are in, and YL has some properties meshed into TL, but he himself is still nowhere to be seen, and he's technically the most important Link of them all in Nintendo history.

And Mega Man is represented in MvC3 through a costume for Zero. Doesn't mean his fans don't have the right to be unhappy. Personally, I'd support the return of Young Link. Yes, we already have 2 Links, but Young Link mains were sort of left in the dust in Project M, just like Pichu mains. It'd be hypocritical to support one because Melee and not the other.

I'm merely pointing out how selfish some Pichu fans can be when they say "it wouldn't be fair if the PMBR didn't turn a joke into reality."

It would be pretty douchey of them, though. The 'joke' was clearly a subtle nod at things yet to come, so they should have had the foresight not to use a character from Melee, no matter how unpopular, due to the obvious reaction it would get when people learned about the clone engine. Someone like Tingle, or even a character that isn't eligible would have been a much more tasteful joke.

YL suffers from the fact that if added, he'd be a 3rd iteration of Link that plays very similarly to the staple set. Pichu suffers from the fact that he'd be a clone of a character that doesn't need a clone. We've been over this before, but Pichu was intended to be a poor character in Melee... So... why add him? And, improving him... OK, I can see it... but why? Look at how many Pokemon we already got. They fill up almost an entire row.

What does that even mean? No character needs a clone, but Pikachu certainly doesn't need to not have a clone. Unless the character already has a clone (or two) in the roster I see no reason why they shouldn't get one. Seems to me like you just don't like Pichu and/or Pikachu. In my opinion 'representation' is Sakurai's job and the PMBR shouldn't be restricted by it. Yes, there are a lot of Pokemon, but why is that a problem if they all add something new and exciting to the metagame?

It's not about it being fair or not. Yes, you can be disappointed, but please please please. Quit saying it's a slap to the face to the fanbase. Look at the poll, more people DON'T want Pichu in than people who do. It might be a disappointment to the Pichu fans (who are clearly a very vocal minority), but it's not a slap in the face to anyone since people genuinely don't want him in.

ITP: If you don't slap everyone you haven't slapped anyone.

 

[Malion]

downvotes on Toon Zelda make me sadder than they should. lol.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Sukapon

I try not to comment on other people's votes; after all, it's all opinions, and opinions are changed through reasoned expression, not through what's inevitably construed as personal attacks. But this is factually incorrect.

Joy Mech Fight was Nintendo's first traditional fighting game. Punch-Out!! came before Urban Champion, and there might even be something earlier that I'm not thinking of. But they don't have any of the elements that Street Fighter 2 brought to the genre.

But that's not the only reason I like Sukapon, and it's the least significant. I like Sukapon because it has an adorable design and an amusing personality. I like Sukapon because I enjoyed JMF; I'm not a fan of command inputs, so I usually dislike traditional fighters, but JMF's reasonable ones allowed me to play it and gain a new respect for the subgenre.

But most importantly, I like Sukapon because it possesses a whole lot of moveset potential that interests me. The branch between Konnan Irahen as a zoning tool and as an approach; the mixups between KI and Tondekee; the Action Command Tondekee; the bipartite aerial Eye Copter; even farfetched stuff such as the utility of the Up-B I mentioned, both grounded and aerial; and most prominently and essentially the unique focus on spacing and natural dodges, the two things that I love doing most in video games.

And that's just the stuff that I'm personally interested in using, there's plenty more available to make Sukapon a wildly original character, not to mention the capacity for creative construction of cool new qualities from its current characteristics. Specifically as a choice for Pro:M, I like Sukapon because its reward/work ratio is (read: seems to be from a biased outsider's perspective) arbitrarily high and incomparable to the rest of the nominees.

 

[marlinswine]

finally, FINALLY, managed to get an account working here. phew. alright then, straight to the votes (if this thread is still interested).
I'll do my down-votes first as there'll be more of them that may need explaining.
Knuckles / Shadow / Tails / Greyfox
Sonic and metal gear are easily represented enough by their mascots and using extra slots on more reps from either series rather than a nintendo character would be extremely wasteful. I'm not against third party in general, just the idea of putting more than the necessary representation of these series in.
Pichu
Joke character, very unpopular, more than enough pokemon already, no current relevance at all.
Toad
Generic creature - not even a real character. this would be like asking for koopa troopa as a character
Lyn
I really like the character, but i really dont want another FE sword user. If FE really needs another rep (which i don't think it does) then i'd much rather it go to someone like Micaiah. It would be great to see another magic user, could be based off Zelda.
Dixie
Not dissimilar enough from diddy, if DK gets a third should be K. Rool

Allrighty then. My plus votes.
Isaac
Love it, has to happen.
Saki
Individual enough to warrant it, underrepresented series. can replace marth as the "wait, that's a dude?!?" character.
Shadowdorf
I understand peoples apprehension but i really think this is the best way forward. Black shadow really fits Ganons basic animations and all around movement feel and Ganondorf could be represented much better with new, more fitting, attacks while potentially holding on to the more unique ones that suit him better, side b, up tilt, f-air, etc.
K. Rool
I want more heavys and i want more villians.
I dont know about the last slot, do we have to follow the OP list ? If not then i would actually quite like Micaiah. Zelda clone would be really intersting.
As for the mehs, - Krystal, Sami and Tetra get half votes because i'd quite like more female reps. Dark Samus and Sukapon get one too just because i'm intrigued by how they might be done.

And that's it. Just wanted to make my voice heard, if this thread ends up having any influence then I wanted to make sure I had my say. A bit concerning that I was more motivated to voting here than I have been for any political election.

 

[a vehicle]

Ridley: +1
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: +1
Sami: +1000 (so hype)
King K Rool: +1
Dark Samus: +1
Andy: +1
-------------
Skapon: -1
Don't know who this is, looks awful
Paper Mario: -1
Toad: -1
Waluigi: -1
Too many mario characters
Lyn: -1
Hector: -1
More weapon wealding fire emblem character? Nope
Krystal: -1000
forced female character panned by the public
Tetra: -1
Possibly the worst zelda character addition, I can think of many others I would rather play
Tails: NO
Knuckles: NO
Shadow: NO

Anime related characters are a joke, have fun playing your FF and Naruto reskins, but don't bother me with those

 

[Malion]

didn't we put a limit on down-votes?

 

[trojanpooh]

no current relevance at all.

Isaac
Saki
Shadowdorf
K. Rool

You're entitled to your opinion and all, but isn't this insanely hypocritical?

 

[marlinswine]

Fair enough, i guess i meant comparative relevance, as in to their series, Shadow and K.rool are lead villains, saki and isaac are protagonists. pichu is just one of a myriad of pokemon and is barely distinguished from the rest of them. not relevant at all to pokemon is what i should of said and thus makes a bad rep for an already over represented series.

 

[Anti Guy]

Ridley: +1
Ganondorf / Black Shadow: +1
Sami: +1000 (so hype)
King K Rool: +1
Dark Samus: +1
Andy: +1
-------------
Saki: -1
Skapon: -1
Paper Mario: -1
Toad: -1
Dixie: -1
Lyn: -1
Krystal: -1000 (forced female character panned by the public)
Tetra: -1
Hector: -1
Waluigi: -1
Isaac: -1
Tails: NO
Knuckles: NO
Shadow: NO

Anime related characters are a joke, have fun playing your FF and Naruto reskins, but don't bother me with those

Your negative votes won't count unless you give a reason for them. And you can only have 5 +1 votes. +1000 doesn't count...

didn't we put a limit on down-votes?

There's still no limit, but you have to give an explanation for them now.

 

[Tofer Dallah]

It is impossible to make an alt costume of YL for TL ? :o

And about Pichu: Why so much hate ?

Okay he was weak in Melee, but fun to play ! Faster and stronger than Pikachu but more fragile. He was a Pikachu's clone ? Falco was a clone of Fox too but they still different. So Pichu can be very different and luigified ! I don't care about the number of Pokemon. Pichu was maybe a joke but still a fighter in Melee and even if Pikachu wear glass in Brawl, it not the same. Pichu's gameplay is not in Project M and that what all the Pichu fan want !

PS: That why I said it unfair. Even if he was a joke character. Some people like his style !

(Sorry for my bad English, I'm french... ><)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

It is impossible to make an alt costume of YL for TL ? :o

His hitboxes and hurtboxes would not match up properly. YL looks way to different then TL, also they said a alt. has to be the same character

 

[Malion]

His hitboxes and hurtboxes would not match up properly. YL looks way to different then TL, also they said a alt. has to be the same character

While the shapes don't match up... the whole same character thing clearly just means any link if OoT and TP link are any indication.

I still think Toon Link wearing YL's clothes would be suitable. The short shorts and the double belt, with potential guilded sword and mirror shield.... or kokiri sword and deku shield.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

While the shapes don't match up... the whole same character thing clearly just means any link if OoT and TP link are any indication.

I still think Toon Link wearing YL's clothes would be suitable. The short shorts and the double belt, with potential guilded sword and mirror shield.... or kokiri sword and deku shield.

I and many others have told you this before and I will say it again, that is the one exception to the rule because TP Link is a blood descendent of OOT Link and he meets the dead spirit of OOT Link several times through out the course of the game.

 

[2-Toes]

Here is a crazy idea:

The Belay failed... Popo is going solo.

This idea came from watching Wobbles' amazing Sopo play at Evo - the crowd and commentators always went berserk when he pulled pulled off combos with Sopo. Also it is just funny to me having it be so dramatic and silly.

Effort - A - Sopo would be relatively easy to make (as far as clone engine characters go). Just some recoloring to make him look distinct, and then moveset changes that would round out game and make him fit in with the rest of the characters. The model for him is already complete with working animations, it doesn't get much better than that! There is lots of room for innovation for his playstyle as well, I can see the PMBR having a field day with some new tricks to make people scream "Look at that SOPO!" more often.

Value - ? - I have NO idea what people will think about this. If people see it as an opportunity to make a creative and practical addition to the cast that capitalizes on an ongoing joke, it has solid value. Who knows, what do you think about it?

Pros:
- The model and animations already exist in the game, puting Sopo among the most practical additions to the cast in this thread
- Lots of room for creativity with his moveset
- Sopo Hype


- [edit] - Crazy idea. A good point was made that having unique and crazy ideas is what makes PM great, and what will continue to make it great. It is just up to the person judging to decide if it is a good crazy or bad crazy.

Cons:
- Controversial (?)
- Crazy idea
- Not everybody will see the humor, or even likes the Ice Climbers at all

Your thoughts? Give Sopo a chance?

 

[Malion]

I and many others have told you this before and I will say it again, that is the one exception to the rule because TP Link is a blood descendent of OOT Link and he meets the dead spirit of OOT Link several times through out the course of the game.

That's a theory. The real reason is that they are both Links from a Smash bros game and the desire was there... which Young Link and Toon Link could potentially fill if it weren't for the obvious difference in shape. Any ass backwards exception that applies to OoT and TP Link can easily be applied to TL and YL. Let's not be biased here.

 

[trojanpooh]

If Sopo gets in I swear to god the other 4 slots better be Pichu, Doctor Mario, Young Link, and a 2nd Pichu.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Here is a crazy idea:

The Belay failed... Popo is going solo.

View attachment 4477


This idea came from watching Wobbles' amazing Sopo play at Evo - the crowd and commentators always went berserk when he pulled pulled off combos with Sopo. Also it is just funny to me having it be so dramatic and silly.

Effort - A - Sopo would be relatively easy to make (as far as clone engine characters go). Just some recoloring to make him look distinct, and then moveset changes that would round out game and make him fit in with the rest of the characters. The model for him is already complete with working animations, it doesn't get much better than that! There is lots of room for innovation for his playstyle as well, I can see the PMBR having a field day with some new tricks to make people scream "Look at that SOPO!" more often.

Value - ? - I have NO idea what people will think about this. If people see it as an opportunity to make a creative and practical addition to the cast that capitalizes on an ongoing joke, it has solid value. Who knows, what do you think about it?

Pros:
- The model and animations already exist in the game, puting Sopo among the most practical additions to the cast in this thread
- Lots of room for creativity with his moveset
- Sopo Hype

Cons:
- Controversial (?)
- Crazy idea
- Not everybody will see the humor, or even likes the Ice Climbers at all

Your thoughts? Give Sopo a chance?

shouldn`t the craziness of this suggestion be a pro? I personally want crazy ideas that nobody else would think of. I don`t think the name should be Sopo, but I do think the idea of playing Popo solo without having to waste time jumping off the stage and up specialing is cool.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

That's a theory. The real reason is that they are both Links from a Smash bros game and the desire was there... which Young Link and Toon Link could potentially fill if it weren't for the obvious difference in shape. Any *** backwards exception that applies to OoT and TP Link can easily be applied to TL and YL. Let's not be biased here.

Yes, your completely right. Information gotten from Hyrule Historia, a official Nintendo product is just a theory and can`t be trusted.

EDIT: Also, I`m not being biased (I want YL as a alt. or separate character just as much as the next guy), but the truth is that YL can`t be a alt. for TL because 1. body proportions 2. canon linking of the two characters and 3. voices

 

[Malion]

Yes, your completely right. Information gotten from Hyrule Historia, a official Nintendo product is just a theory and can`t be trusted.

We're talking smash here. I know they are related in-game but that has very little impact on Smash. I don't think a Link meeting another Link or being literally related to be them makes them any more the same character as two character who share the same Hero title and function in different games. Toon Link is walking in the footsteps of the older Link. He is dressed the same as them as far as he knows (statues of Hero of Time in the game look exactly like Toon Link only older) so it's a little silly to say that one set of Links is more worthy of being an exception to the rule than another.

 

[2-Toes]

Good point, QQQQQQQ7777777. Crazy ideas are the driving force behind PM, it's just up to individuals to decide if it is good crazy or bad crazy.

I edited it to include that.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

We're talking smash here. I know they are related in-game but that has very little impact on Smash. I don't think a Link meeting another Link or being literally related to be them makes them any more the same character as two character who share the same Hero title and function in different games. Toon Link is walking in the footsteps of the older Link. He is dressed the same as them as far as he knows (statues of Hero of Time in the game look exactly like Toon Link only older) so it's a little silly to say that one set of Links is more worthy of being an exception to the rule than another.

There is the possibility that it`s just TP Link with OOT Link`s Tunic. there body proportions are identical and you can`t say the same for YL and TL. Also, TL dresses similarly to them because it is tradition that on Outset Island, when a boy comes of age he must wear the cloths of the Hero who saved Hyrule. They could have kept him in his lobster shirt for the whole game and there would be absolutely no difference to his character.

 

[Malion]

EDIT: Also, I`m not being biased (I want YL as a alt. or separate character just as much as the next guy), but the truth is that YL can`t be a alt. for TL because 1. body proportions 2. canon linking of the two characters and 3. voices

1. I agree about the body proportions. I always did I was just arguing the principle of the matter. lol.
2. My covered this point really.
3. You do know OoT and TP Link have different voices right?

There is the possibility that it`s just TP Link with OOT Link`s Tunic. there body proportions are identical and you can`t say the same for YL and TL. Also, TL dresses similarly to them because it is tradition that on Outset Island, when a boy comes of age he must wear the cloths of the Hero who saved Hyrule. They could have kept him in his lobster shirt for the whole game and there would be absolutely no difference to his character.

But they have different faces and hair...

And yes I know it's a tradition but it's a foot in the door for him to become the next hero. He gets ahold of the triforce of Courage and uses it just like legend foretells.

I could argue TP Link could have stayed in his ordon clothes the whole adventure too. Skyward Sword Link could have just stayed in his village clothes... they all just HAPPEN to get that outfit... it's a sort of fate thing.

My original idea of Toon Link just wearing Young Link's clothes still stands and I would be perfectly happy with that.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

3. You do know OoT and TP Link have different voices right?

yes, but OOTL with TPL`s voice sounds alot less jarring then YL with TL` voice.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

yes, but OOTL with TPL`s voice sounds alot less jarring then YL with TL` voice.

...I heavily disagree with that.

As someone who has used full costume sets of YL over Tink before, I'd say YL with Tink's voice sounds perfectly fine. Not much different, in fact.

 

[Generically Epic]

Am I a hipster, because the way looks is almost the exact opposite that I'd want it to be.
I'll up vote Dark Samus, Dixie, PIchu, Claus/Masked Man, Ganondarf/Black Shadow.
If i can donvote, I'll downvote the following
Isaac: Issac brings little to the game; He already is in the game with items. plus he looks like a cloud rip off.
Ridley: Dark samus is easier to do if you have to represent metroid. besides, he is a boss already.
Skapon:no idea who this is at all...looks like ditto. doesn't seem popular.
King K Rool: too much work to put on this one character. The only cloneable person would be DDD.
Sami: would have to make non existent moves like fox or falco.
Saki: no idea who this even is. seems too easy to make op.
Tom Nook: You took my bells, *****!

 

[Xinc]

Am I a hipster, because the way looks is almost the exact opposite that I'd want it to be. But I'll take my losses and do what I can to screw up everything.
I'll up vote Dark Samus, Dixie, PIchu, Plusle/minium Paper Mario, and Claus/Masked Man. Ganondarf/Black Shadow, Krystal, Toon Zelda, Waluigi, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow
Downvote everyone else!

I find it amusing how people are ignoring the limits for up and downvoting. Please.

 

[splat]

Am I a hipster, because the way looks is almost the exact opposite that I'd want it to be. But I'll take my losses and do what I can to screw up everything.
I'll up vote Dark Samus, Dixie, PIchu, Plusle/minium Paper Mario, and Claus/Masked Man. Ganondarf/Black Shadow, Krystal, Toon Zelda, Waluigi, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow
Downvote everyone else!

Serious question: are you being dumb on purpose?

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Perhaps not the best thing to take from the text (nor to discuss here) but really, why do people keep insisting this? Bowser Jr. in Smash 4 I can somewhat see, that's not what I'm aiming at; why do people think Shadow Mario will make it? Since Bowser Jr.'s first appearance in Sunshine, he appeared in over 20 games as a boss or a playable character. Shadow Mario only in 2: Sunshine and that one golfing game where Jr. was a playable character as well. Shadow Mario hasn't appeared since 2003 (not counting his two cameos): Shadow Mario is a closed book and will not make it, he has no additional value to Bowser Jr. as a character.

There's almost no such thing as a closed book, or rather books can be opened again. Anyways, So what if he hasn't had an appearance in a long while. That doesn't he can't still be valuable as character or relevant to Bowser Jr.'s character.....If anything, I think it greatly supports Bowser Jr.. In all of these "games" he's usually in some contraption. One of his best representations is his form with a paintbrush and transformation..............For the record, Metal Mario (as his own Mario character) also didn't have an appearance since Mario Golf (THE FIRST ONE) and he's now back as his own character in "Mario Tennis Open" and "Mario Kart 7". Not that all of that is a needed boundary for his inclusion.......

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

There's almost no such thing as a closed book, or rather books can be opened again. Anyways, So what if he hasn't had an appearance in a long while. That doesn't he can't still be valuable as character or relevant to Bowser Jr.'s character.....If anything, I think it greatly supports Bowser Jr.. In all of these "games" he's usually in some contraption. One of his best representations is his form with a paintbrush and transformation..............For the record, Metal Mario (as his own Mario character) also didn't have an appearance since Mario Golf (THE FIRST ONE) and he's now back as his own character in "Mario Tennis Open" and "Mario Kart 7". Not that all of that is a needed boundary for his inclusion.......

Don`t forget Pit

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Don`t forget Pit

AND the fact that they used Sheik again in Brawl despite how nonrelevant she was to the the Zelda of Twilight Princess. This strict rule of positioning in main series is tiring.......its not that it doesn't apply necesarily but its not the entirety

 

[Generically Epic]

Serious question: are you being dumb on purpose?

i fixed it. =_=;

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Am I a hipster, because the way looks is almost the exact opposite that I'd want it to be.
I'll up vote Dark Samus, Dixie, PIchu, Claus/Masked Man, Ganondarf/Black Shadow.
If i can donvote, I'll downvote the following
Isaac: Issac brings little to the game; He already is in the game with items. plus he looks like a cloud rip off.
Ridley: Dark samus is easier to do if you have to represent metroid. besides, he is a boss already.
Skapon:no idea who this is at all...looks like ditto. doesn't seem popular.
King K Rool: too much work to put on this one character. The only cloneable person would be DDD.
Sami: would have to make non existent moves like fox or falco.
Saki: no idea who this even is. seems too easy to make op.
Tom Nook: You took my bells, *****!

Your downvoting characters because you don`t know who they are? That`s stupid. Also, Golden Sun (Isaac`s Game) was released before FF7

 

[Generically Epic]

Your downvoting characters because you don`t know who they are? That`s stupid. Also, Golden Sun (Isaac`s Game) was released before FF7

Fine, he looks like if ditto having a 4-way with voltorbs.

 

[Anti Guy]

Your downvoting characters because you don`t know who they are? That`s stupid. Also, Golden Sun (Isaac`s Game) was released before FF7

I feel like I need to put in an extra rule that you have to have a decent recent for downvoting characters...

 

[XRagingxDemonX]

Found it:
alo81: "What are your guys thoughts on adding non-Nintendo characters? Is it just something you wouldn't even consider, or is it an option on the table (though I'd imagine a fairly tough one.)"

warchamp7: "Not even entertaining the idea, we're doing our best to stay in Nintendo's good graces as much as possible"

Idk if this was covered so please forgive me. I'm on my phone at work lol I don't really have time to read each post. I'll delete if it was, but third party characters aren't deconfirmed.

This picture will show that any character that was a trophy or sticker can get in. I'm sure the third party comment was shopfitter series. I will check my question I asked when I get home to see if he replies, but so far this makes things unclear.

 

[Drazerg]

Vote up - Black Shadow (because we need more villains and i'd like to see a true Ganondorf! Also Capt. Falcon has been very lonely for very long)
- Lyn (Need more females, game model already in game with minor tweaks, popular)
- Paper Mario (I hate Mario franchise games, the exception is Paper mario, anyone who played his games can agree they are nothing alike to the mario franchise besides some character and stuff like mushrooms, big movepool potential, would need less editing time since less animation needed)
- Plusle and Minun (Ever find it odd that Ice climbers is the duo character? Well, let's break that chain! Also thoes who wanted veteran Pichu back could look up instead to these as replacement, they were also in the forbidden seven and I belive deserves a spot.)

-Skull Kid "Majora's Mask" (A popular character back in the days, I would be most amazed to see this character appear in the game, so much potential, great and crazy villain)

Vote down - Bowser Jr. (although he would be a good add, i dont feel this kind of clone would benefit too much, we dont need a faster bowser, were apparently going to get it in smash4 so lets not go there)
- Toad (Lots of people, as myself, find this character annoying and unappealing)
- Pichu (Yes Pichu is a veteran, but Plusle and Minun would be a better clone ressembling both pichu, but special as they would play as ice climbers!)

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

- Plusle and Minun (Ever find it odd that Ice climbers is the duo character? Well, let's break that chain! Also thoes who wanted veteran Pichu back could look up instead to these as replacement, they were also in the forbidden seven and I belive deserves a spot.)

But the only unique aspect of the ice climbers is the duo aspect. Also, there is very little proof that PraMai means PlusMin

 

[Anti Guy]

But the only unique aspect of the ice climbers is the duo aspect. Also, there is very little proof that PraMai means PlusMin

If you have any knowledge of Japanese, the name itself is evident...