New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Solbliminal]

I think he was just poking fun at Sonic. It's pretty hard to take a game seriously when not even the creators respect it.

Honestly your response is unnecessary. I'm aware he was joking. I just don't find it funny in the same way you Pichu fans don't when people poke at his worthlessness.

 

[AnOkayDM]

See and I thought that was a cool addition. So I don't think that really counts as a slip-up.

It'd be better if he said it sooner. It often works out awkwardly, I feel...

 

[Banjodorf]

It'd be better if he said it sooner. It often works out awkwardly, I feel...

Maybe so, although hearing it at the beginning or close to it would be much more irritating than only when he fully charges it, if you ask me. I just use the uncharged version much more often, and I think I'd start hating it if he just said it all the time.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Maybe so, although hearing it at the beginning or close to it would be much more irritating than only when he fully charges it, if you ask me. I just use the uncharged version much more often, and I think I'd start hating it if he just said it all the time.

No, you're right about that. It just...if you release the smash directly after he starts charging it, it sounds really dumb. >_< Maybe it'd be better suited to Eruption?

 

[Solbliminal]

Well seeing as my Sonic votes are completely useless, I'm going to redo my entire vote sheet...if that is okay Anti-guy.

 

[trojanpooh]

Honestly your response is unnecessary. I'm aware he was joking. I just don't find it funny in the same way you Pichu fans don't when people poke at his worthlessness.

I don't mind jokes, I make jabs at Pichu's expense all the time. There's no denying that he's a terrible character in his current state. What bothers me is when serious people trying to make serious posts make claims about his uniqueness that aren't accurate.

 

[Anti Guy]

Well seeing as my Sonic votes are completely useless, I'm going to redo my entire vote sheet...if that is okay Anti-guy.

Yeah go ahead. I won't change your votes for the Sonic characters since I'd like to keep the data on them frozen in time, but you can have your 5 votes back.

 

[Chzrm3]

See and I thought that was a cool addition. So I don't think that really counts as a slip-up.

Yeah, I love that change. XD

I also love the new taunt they gave Ness. : D So good.

@ trojan, I'll be honest, I agree with the sentiment that 'unyielding faith is dangerous', but when a group of people has been consistently great, I think it's fine to leave a controversial decision like this in their hands. They'll take a good, hard look at what their long-term PM plans are, and they'll be able to determine whether Pichu can fit into that without disrupting anything (or, even better, if his presence can improve the game for everyone, even people who currently hate him!) And again, that's all I really wanted - I was worried that they might be as dismissive as some people in this thread, who just say "Pichu's bad so no". And that's clearly not happening, so it's alllll goooood. 8)

 

[trojanpooh]

What I was trying to say is that while I'm confident that the final release of Project M will be fantastic (since all of the rest have been good), they don't necessarily always make the best choices. True, they've yet to do anything that really upset me, but that's not to say they've always made the best choices, just good ones. That's also not to say that if they add Pichu that'll be the best decision, maybe there's a better alternative. Personally I think that they already slipped up by merging Mario and Doctor Mario and cutting Doctor Mario. I'm just pointing out that it's unhealthy to have such unbreakable confidence in a developer. It was a similar thought process that conned many of us into buying Brawl, I'm sure.

(But the PMBR is awesome and so far they're rockin' it)

 

[Solbliminal]

I don't mind jokes, I make jabs at Pichu's expense all the time. There's no denying that he's a terrible character in his current state. What bothers me is when serious people trying to make serious posts make claims about his uniqueness that aren't accurate.

Meh.. too bummed out to think up a response. Have to decide on a new 5 to vote for now..

 

[Anti Guy]

Meh.. too bummed out to think up a response. Have to decide on a new 5 to vote for now..

Your only Sonic vote was a vote for Shadow...

 

[Johnknight1]

See and I thought that was a cool addition. So I don't think that really counts as a slip-up.

Why is Ike saying "Prepare Yourself" even a big deal=???

I don't mind jokes, I make jabs at Pichu's expense all the time. There's no denying that he's a terrible character in his current state. What bothers me is when serious people trying to make serious posts make claims about his uniqueness that aren't accurate.

People haven't heard my theories on Pichu: A balls out character that has among the best combos, the fastest speed, and just in general ability to finish a match real quick, but on the flip side it's super light, can be killed easily.

In general, make Pichu the ultimate risk/reward character where anything can happen, and any match can be a comeback for either player. There is no "safe win" with Pichu.

That right there would be super cool, and intense to watch, play as, or play against.

 

[trojanpooh]

Meh.. too bummed out to think up a response. Have to decide on a new 5 to vote for now..

Yeah, man. I am sorry about that. I don't think I was aware that 3rd parties were out of the running when I cracked that joke and if I was I'm really sorry because that'd be in extremely poor taste. Part of the reason I tease Sonic so much is because I used to love the games and I know that Sega could be doing so much better with it. Personally I would have been way into Amy or Robotnik if they were eligible, but oh well.

 

[Banjodorf]

Why is Ike saying "Prepare Yourself" even a big deal=???

People haven't heard my theories on Pichu: A balls out character that has among the best combos, the fastest speed, and just in general ability to finish a match real quick, but on the flip side it's super light, can be killed easily.

In general, make Pichu the ultimate risk/reward character where anything can happen, and any match can be a comeback for either player. There is no "safe win" with Pichu.

That right there would be super cool, and intense to watch, play as, or play against.

Honestly, I had an idea for Pichu, where they give him a mechanic like Lucario had in Brawl. It seems to work better for him, where he damages himself to increase his damage. I dunno, I've been trying to think of things.

Although I'm still in the camp for new characters over Pichu, or if they're going to add Pichu, have something else to hype the people who aren't big on him. I guess. Hmm...

 

[trojanpooh]

Why is Ike saying "Prepare Yourself" even a big deal=???

It's not a huge deal, it just comes off as a touch unprofessional and "fan hack-y"

People haven't heard my theories on Pichu: A balls out character that has among the best combos, the fastest speed, and just in general ability to finish a match real quick, but on the flip side it's super light, can be killed easily.

In general, make Pichu the ultimate risk/reward character where anything can happen, and any match can be a comeback for either player. There is no "safe win" with Pichu.

That right there would be super cool, and intense to watch, play as, or play against.

That may make him a tad OP since Smash Bros is all about dat "Don't get hit", but I see where you're coming from. If you've ever played The Binding of Isaac, Eve is one of my favorite characters to play as because playing well as her means doing all the things you'd never do with the other characters because it's too risky. In a game with one life permadeath it isn't normally a good idea to keep yourself at super low health or intentionally get hit, but the way she plays turns all of that on it's head and creates practically an entirely new game. It's no longer about not getting hit and becomes about knowing when to get hit (or in Pichu/Eve's scenario, when to hit yourself). The game becomes leagues deeper and more of a mental strain but the payoff is fantastic. That's the kind of character I'd like to see Pichu become.

 

[Solbliminal]

Your only Sonic vote was a vote for Shadow...

Didn't you say that my 5 votes were given back? And I'm aware of my only vote being towards Shadow. I still wish to reconsider my votes for the sake of the turnabout. I'm just bummed out my primary pick is knocked-out.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't even remember what I voted a while back (at least the 1/2 votes) so I'm going to list the +1 votes specifically. And what's on the top of my head for halves.
Not going to list -1 votes this time either

+1
Samurai Goroh
Sukapon
Pokemon Trainer (by himself, with Pokemon attacks)
Pichu
Saki Amamiya

1/2
Toad
Andy
Isaac
Ridley
Dark Samus

 

[SonicMario]

I'm going to be stubborn with my Tails vote anyway

Though it seems weird that's ruled out, I thought that absolutely any character that appeared in Brawl (Either as a trophy, sticker, or otherwise) is a-Ok. Which I understand is reasons why things like Simon Belmont, or Bomberman is impossible. But for characters that have a 3D Model like Tails in-game you could use as a basis to make a playable Brawl model for is just as legally troubling as those are?

 

[Inawordyes]

If votes are being redone, then I'm gonna take a gander at redoing mine:

Upvote (+1):
Sami - She would make for an excellent and canonically-feasible Snake semi-clone, and while not considered the main character of the Wars series, she nonetheless does hold great importance within a currently-unrepped veteran series and would serve to provide representation for the deserving Wars franchise within Smash while also diversifying the game through another female character.
Lyn - That Lyn post from a page or two back (or maybe it was in a different thread, haha) about basing her from ZSS/Sheik sold me on her, especially as my first choice (Robin) cannot be included due to obvious lack of Awakening representation in Brawl. I'd be very interested in seeing how she'd come out if her moveset was based around a sheathed sword style with punches and kicks mixed in. Also Awakening DLC costume for alternate, please, that outfit is pretty dang awesome.
Sukapon - Half the work is already done with Sukapon, because, coming from a fighting game itself, it already has a moveset that could be easily be translated to Smash (plus there is a sprite moveset in the Sukapon support thread that was created for Super Smash Flash 2 that could be used for inspiration, as it was completed and entirely mapped out already). Also, Sukapon represents an obscure retro that has the chance to be very popular were it more well-known, and including the Japan-only Sukapon in Project M could perhaps be comparable to Marth and Roy being in Melee, and could generate hype and interest in the character. Plus, being that Sukapon's body is not as complex as most choices, while it would require a model made from scratch (as Sukapon's only appearance is as a sticker), Sukapon does not seem to be one that would require a vast amount of type to create. It's the moveset that might pose a problem, as it would probably mostly have to be from scratch as well.
Isaac - Isaac is one of the most popular choices on this poll, and for good reason, as he is popular, from a Nintendo series deserving of a character acting as playable representative, and a very unique character would much potential that was unfortunately passed over for inclusion as a playable character in Brawl. I'd love to see what the Project M team could do with him, and I have high hopes.
Vaati - A curveball choice, perhaps? To me, not so much. The Zelda franchise stands as one of the most popular and well-recognized series in Nintendo's repertoire, part of the big three along with Pokemon and the Mario series. However, while Pokemon currently holds 7 representatives and Mario, through way of the subseries, holds 6 as well (7 if you want to count Donkey Kong, as it is not technically a subseries; either way Diddy would probably not be counted or it'd be 8), Legend of Zelda sits as a mere 5 reps. A Travesty, I say! So, why Vaati? Why not Impa, Tingle, Skull Kid, Zant, Midna, etc.? For a very simple reason: At present, Zelda is repped by Link, the main protagonist of the Main Zelda games, Zelda, the secondary protagonist in most cases, and Ganondorf, the recurring, main Big Bad of the Main Zelda series. Toon Link, meanwhile, is the main protagonist of the Toon Zelda games. Vaati, however, is the main antagonist in the Four Swords games, and could be seen as the Ganondorf of the Toon series, considering that he is the main antagonist in three of the six "Child Link" games (the others either by the already-included Ganondorf or by other one-time characters; correct me on this point if I'm wrong). In this way, you have both Link's representing the two LoZ subsets, the main antagonists of both, as well as Zelda, the common element, the glue that holds the entire series together. Perhaps I didn't explain it very well, and not knowing the Zelda series as well I probably have some facts wrong, but this is why Vaati has my fifth vote at the moment, and I'd love to see how he'd be interpreted for Project M. Plus, in the absence of Avatar, Vaati gives a chance for creating somebody with magic-based attacks.

Half-Vote (+1/2)
Ridley
Bowser Jr.
Toad
Waluigi
Sothe
Micaiah
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool
Saki
Samurai Goroh
Pichu
Pokemon Trainer as a standalone character

Downvote (-1)
Dark Samus - A character that would really basically be a dark-colored clone of Samus (and is canonically within the Metroid series!) just doesn't sound very appealing to me, despite the fact that I know a lot of interesting stuff can be done with it. That being said, I wouldn't end up caring in the end all that much, I'd just prefer Dark Samus not get in before any of the above.

 

[Solbliminal]

I'm going to be stubborn with my Tails vote anyway

Though it seems weird that's ruled out, I thought that absolutely any character that appeared in Brawl (Either as a trophy, sticker, or otherwise) is a-Ok. Which I understand is reasons why things like Simon Belmont, or Bomberman is impossible. But for characters that have a 3D Model like Tails in-game you could use as a basis to make a playable Brawl model for is just as legally troubling as those are?

The votes are on record. Unless P:M says otherwise, it would be best to vote for another character. If the day comes where they decide to allow them, we can refer to the archive and vote over again.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Spoiler

Spoiler

*sees kirby* .......

i'm so hyped right now, so i'll try to stay hyped outside of the forums or else i'd have more gif's than this XD

But now that they got all the regular characters in... does that mean they'll now use and work on those 5 slots? or is the character adding over? I hope for the former. But yeah can't wait for the 9th! (note i just got here lol)

 

[Johnknight1]

LMAO at your sig Zero. Thanks for making me a part of it!

That may make him a tad OP since Smash Bros is all about dat "Don't get hit", but I see where you're coming from. If you've ever played The Binding of Isaac, Eve is one of my favorite characters to play as because playing well as her means doing all the things you'd never do with the other characters because it's too risky. In a game with one life permadeath it isn't normally a good idea to keep yourself at super low health or intentionally get hit, but the way she plays turns all of that on it's head and creates practically an entirely new game. It's no longer about not getting hit and becomes about knowing when to get hit (or in Pichu/Eve's scenario, when to hit yourself). The game becomes leagues deeper and more of a mental strain but the payoff is fantastic. That's the kind of character I'd like to see Pichu become.

Well with Pichu, it could be OP... either way.

Sure, you could do a lot of ridiculous combos and maybe get tons of screen chasing KO's, but man, two knees and you're dead.

It's a trade off. That's the theory behind it; you gain the ability to do insane awesome offense and make huge comebacks but on the flip side you can get killed insanely fast and have huge comebacks happen to you.

Of course, it would require balance, but man, if it was executed right, it would be amazing.

 

[AnOkayDM]

They're thinking about using some of the remaining slots. They haven't settled on anyone yet, or how many, but they are planning to use them.

Unrelated, I can definitely get behind Vaati, if they can make him work. Maybe he could be a Luigi-fied Toon Link clone with more wind moves? (Minish Cap states he won a swordsmanship competition for the privilege of touching the Four Sword, so even if he never uses a sword in-game, he clearly has to be able to.)

 

[trojanpooh]

They're thinking about using some of the remaining slots. They haven't settled on anyone yet, or how many, but they are planning to use them.

Unrelated, I can definitely get behind Vaati, if they can make him work. Maybe he could be a Luigi-fied Toon Link clone with more wind moves? (Minish Cap states he won a swordsmanship competition for the privilege of touching the Four Sword, so even if he never uses a sword in-game, he clearly has to be able to.)

It could also be a way to bring back Young Link's playstyle without adding a 3rd Link.

 

[AnOkayDM]

It could also be a way to bring back Young Link's playstyle without adding a 3rd Link.

True! Though some of his projectiles would have to be pretty edited...I can see him with an explosive projectile, but not exactly the same as the bombs. His specials would make more sense to me as spells, so pulling out a bomb and tossing it wouldn't work super well, I feel.

 

[Johnknight1]

It could also be a way to bring back Young Link's playstyle without adding a 3rd Link.

I'd rather Young Link just come back on his own, and Toon Link get a more Toon Link-y style (like in the Wind Waker).

Honestly, I don't get why I'm the only person behind such an idea. It would be awesome to have a crazy zany Toon Link on top of the current Toon Link becoming Young Link and whooping butt that way.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well see now I'm hyped to see what they do with Ridley, Isaac, and Lyn. Yep.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

I liked Vaati, and wouldn't mind playing as him at all, but not a whole lot of his human form is shown at all. It's even mentioned that he won the swordsmanship tournament with a "magical ease" or something, implying that it wasn't merely skill.
He's also mostly just a cloud over all three appearances. First form in Minish Cap seems like a likely thing to draw a few attacks from. He should get that little dark energy ball that he uses to turn Zelda to stone/drain your life in said first form. He's also got lasers and shoots fire. Fun stuff.

 

[Inawordyes]

It could also be a way to bring back Young Link's playstyle without adding a 3rd Link.

It would be interesting if Vaati was a blend of [Young/Toon] Link (with the sword attacks) and Zelda or Ness/Lucas (with the magic abilities). That would be pretty cool, and maybe sorta like what we'd imagine Ganondorf would be if decloned and using a sword, perhaps? Maybe Vaati can be the answer for people who want a decloned Ganondorf moveset!

EDIT:

I liked Vaati, and wouldn't mind playing as him at all, but not a whole lot of his human form is shown at all. It's even mentioned that he won the swordsmanship tournament with a "magical ease" or something, implying that it wasn't merely skill.

He's also mostly just a cloud over all three appearances. First form in Minish Cap seems like a likely thing to draw a few attacks from. He should get that little dark energy ball that he uses to turn Zelda to stone/drain your life in said first form. He's also got lasers and shoots fire. Fun stuff.

Not sure if the last comment is sarcasm, but either way, that sounds like an awesome set of potential moves waiting to happen.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I liked Vaati, and wouldn't mind playing as him at all, but not a whole lot of his human form is shown at all. It's even mentioned that he won the swordsmanship tournament with a "magical ease" or something, implying that it wasn't merely skill.
He's also mostly just a cloud over all three appearances. First form in Minish Cap seems like a likely thing to draw a few attacks from. He should get that little dark energy ball that he uses to turn Zelda to stone/drain your life in said first form. He's also got lasers and shoots fire. Fun stuff.

It'd have to be his human form, I think. Even if it wasn't merely skill, I think he fought his way through the competition, even if he had magical assistance.

His specials we could certainly draw from his magic abilities though.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Sorry for the double post, but...****. There's no Vaati at all in Brawl. No trophy, no sticker. Nothing.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Not sure if the last comment is sarcasm, but either way, that sounds like an awesome set of potential moves waiting to happen.

I wasn't being sarcastic, it's right here in this battle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1iK_B9m-I-E#t=143

Sorry for the double post, but...****. There's no Vaati at all in Brawl. No trophy, no sticker. Nothing.

That's no good. Well, twas fun while it lasted.

 

[Inawordyes]

I wasn't being sarcastic, it's right here in this battle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1iK_B9m-I-E#t=143


That's no good. Well, twas fun while it lasted.

I was talking more about the "Fun stuff" comment, as it sounds like a sarcastic response, haha.

Sorry for the double post, but...****. There's no Vaati at all in Brawl. No trophy, no sticker. Nothing.

But hey, at least we got a discussion out of it.

 

[AnOkayDM]

But hey, at least we got a discussion out of it.

I think he would make a good character, for what it's worth! Now I wish he qualified...

 

[XStarWarriorX]

LMAO at your sig Zero. Thanks for making me a part of it!

Well with Pichu, it could be OP... either way.

Sure, you could do a lot of ridiculous combos and maybe get tons of screen chasing KO's, but man, two knees and you're dead.

It's a trade off. That's the theory behind it; you gain the ability to do insane awesome offense and make huge comebacks but on the flip side you can get killed insanely fast and have huge comebacks happen to you.

Of course, it would require balance, but man, if it was executed right, it would be amazing.

NP, bro your cool in my book, why wouldn't be a part of it?

Anyway I like this idea, its a high risk high reward esque type thing. I'm sure the PMBR can excute something like this or something similar for pichu.

I dunno why people doubt him, this is a mod dedicated to melee, and based on the reddit link, I think he'll be in somehow just not with the hurting himself mechanic imo.

 

[trojanpooh]

NP, bro your cool in my book, why wouldn't be a part of it?

Anyway I like this idea, its a high risk high reward esque type thing. I'm sure the PMBR can excute something like this or something similar for pichu.

I dunno why people doubt him, this is a mod dedicated to melee, and based on the reddit link, I think he'll be in somehow just not with the hurting himself mechanic imo.

I bet you anything the hurting himself mechanic will remain but be twisted to be a cool risk/reward gimmick rather than a handicap.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

I was talking more about the "Fun stuff" comment, as it sounds like a sarcastic response, haha.

Oh, okay, I see how it could have sounded like that. Just look at my Melee main, though, and you'll see that I legitimately think fire is a tremendous boon for any character.

Now I sort of want to fill the void by discussing another sword/magic fusion character. Masked Man or Isaac?

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I bet you anything the hurting himself mechanic will remain but be twisted to be a cool risk/reward gimmick rather than a handicap.

like the aura system? idk I'd like it if it wasn't brought back, but i'm open to all possibilities. I'm sure the PMBR will make pichu awesome either way, and of course... I want the spiky eared alt

 

[trojanpooh]

like the aura system? idk I'd like it if it wasn't brought back, but i'm open to all possibilities. I'm sure the PMBR will make pichu awesome either way, and of course... I want the spiky eared alt

Maybe, but what I was thinking (and it's detailed much better a number of pages back) is the moves that damaged him would be extremely good in certain situations. So maybe his f-smash would be his best finisher but fully charged it dealt 5% to himself or his, say, f-air did a couple percents but it was great for combos or he could use agility 3 times in the air but the 2nd and 3rd time hurt him (maybe 1% followed by 3%, for example). So he'd have tons of really good utilities but you'd need to think about when the best time to use them would be. Of course, he'd still have plenty of good non suicidal moves to base the majority of his meta on, like in Melee, but in Project M the self damaging moves would be buffed to high hell so they were worth using sometimes.

Also the spiky eared Pichu was the one they "revealed" in the April Fools trailer.

 

[Shin F.]

Let's see...

+1
Isaac OP couldn't have said it better. Forget Felix.

Vaati As stated above by Inawordyes, he is the secondary Zelda antagonist, and the primary villain of the Toon Games. He's pretty much Toon Link's Ganondorf, and could have a basis of cloned moves from Toon Link (pretty sure he won a sword competition in Minish Cap, though his moves were never shown so he could easily copy TL's without contradicting his character). He could also have original moves mixed in. He's known as the Wind Mage, and there aren't any big wind users in Smash, so he could fill that void.

Then, he has the perfect Final Smash - his beast form, much like Ganondorf's, or alternately just a large whirlwind. I've even seen a TL mod that makes his FS just that, using the Wind Waker, so I know it's possible, and there's a custom Vaati import for Lucas that makes his FS eyes his beast form, so that could work, too.

Dark Samus Iconic Metroid villain, easily cloned, blah blah blah, not 'too big'.

Black Shadow / Ganondorf Please, please, do this PMBR! People can put Ganondorf skins and switch his sound effects over Black Shadow again if they really want it that badly, but we certainly can't get a quality Ganondorf moveset that easily!

Ninten This one may seem a bit odd. I know the Mother series is saturated, but he is the only main protagonist from the series that's not playable - and the main character of the first game, at that. Like Claus, he can be easily cloned from Ness/Lucas, and you could even mix and match from the two since their bones are similar enough to blend them.

Most importantly, he has a potentially unique moveset as the only PSI user with no directly offensive PK Attacks. His specials could instead be based around buffs and shields. Lucas now has Offense Up, of course, so he wouldn't necessarily use that but he could always use Quick Up to become faster for a while, or maybe have a temporary, limited version of Turbo Mode with it.

Then, he could have Power Shield instead of PSI Magnet. One way it could work is Power Shield blocks damage (but not knockback) from physical attacks and redirects some of the damage, but doesn't work on energy based attacks. Like PSI Magnet, he can't move while using it, though, so it isn't too overpowered against purely physical characters since he still takes knockback and can be sent flying while holding it. The other way is to only partially block damage.

His recovery could be his unique move 4th-D Slip, which in the original game allows him to escape from battles.

And, if he really needs an offensive special, he could have the PK attack unique to Earthbound Zero, PK Beam. Alternatively, there's a point in the game where he can get a Boomerang, and he has a Slingshots as well, which are both items the other Mother characters don't use.

Finally, he could also potentially use PSI Hypnosis, which puts enemies to sleep. I personally envision it as a chargeable version of Jigglypuff's sing that gains distance as it charges but loses effectiveness as it gets farther, but it could work in a multitude of ways.

The only problem I can foresee is his Final Smash, though he could borrow something from another character - or maybe PK Beam could be his Final Smash. The other possibility would be less direct, and more of an assist FS like Peach's. PSI Lifeup / Shields, which would heal him and give him temporary invincibility.

I realize his official artwork looks incredibly similar to Ness, but there is an alternative - in the original live action commercial, he wears another outfit that has been adapted in many fanart versions of him.

Plus, he could have a unique taunt where he coughs and uses his inhaler.

1/2
Ridley (Charizard Clone?)
Andy
Tails

-1/2
Knuckles
Shadow