New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[JayTheUnseen]

I know who Gamma is,but I fail to recall his theme...

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Speaking of potential characters, and my attempt to push it back on track-ish like Pwnz0rz Man, did any of you see that Waluigi hack that's been floating around? I noticed the user, Marioking64 DS has closed all discussion in its regard, and is ignoring all messages.
And a while ago, people were requesting his official addition in Project M... Which he was working on specifically...
And the only reason that he would be so discreet... Do you think it has a chance? It was pretty huge while he was working on it, and then silence.

I super want it to be added. And my sweet and dear Pichu.

I don't know if Waluigi has a chance of being in the game, but I kind of hope he doesn't. He's a guy that's only known for Kart Racing and joining in on the sports games. Until Waluigi actually has an active role in a non-crossover game, I wouldn't want to see him in Smash. At this point, even Princess Daisy is a better choice than Waluigi (Though her only role in a non-crossover game was to be kidnapped in Super Mario Land).

 

[ChiePet]

Both E-102 Gamma and Boss E-101 Beta aka 'Crazy Robo' are 2 more clear reasons why I miss him.
SEGA.

 

[CBO0tz]

Speaking of potential characters, and my attempt to push it back on track-ish like Pwnz0rz Man, did any of you see that Waluigi hack that's been floating around? I noticed the user, Marioking64 DS has closed all discussion in its regard, and is ignoring all messages.
And a while ago, people were requesting his official addition in Project M... Which he was working on specifically...
And the only reason that he would be so discreet... Do you think it has a chance? It was pretty huge while he was working on it, and then silence.

I super want it to be added. And my sweet and dear Pichu.

Haha! I've never been into Sonic, and have no clue who "Gamma" is! Your evil plot has been foiled!

I really hope he gets added. Just because he only gets into Party games doesn't mean he deserves to get shelfed from a good competitive game. His character design would just go to waste on another Mario Party until Nintendo actually decides to put him in an official Super Mario.

 

[Draco_The]

I enjoyed Gamma's story and gameplay the most in SA1 by far. And Big the Cat the least.

 

[GunBuster]

Haha! I've never been into Sonic, and have no clue who "Gamma" is! Your evil plot has been foiled!

YOU WILL LEARN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2sOpyF1nF4

 

[ÐårLing-§sß]

i dont realy like any of these =/ xD

 

[Nefnoj]

I don't know if Waluigi has a chance of being in the game, but I kind of hope he doesn't. He's a guy that's only known for Kart Racing and joining in on the sports games. Until Waluigi actually has an active role in a non-crossover game, I wouldn't want to see him in Smash. At this point, even Princess Daisy is a better choice than Waluigi (Though her only role in a non-crossover game was to be kidnapped in Super Mario Land).

That's all too true, poor neglected Waluigi. I tend to have a liking for the more bizarre characters, I went out of my way just to buy Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland from the PAL region just to play it, haha, so my reasoning is clouded by bias.
I honestly think he's a better option than HI I'M DAISY simply because he seems to have a... Bigger personality, and a better, yet more strange potential moveset. Unless Daisy had a Super Mario Land moveset, haha.

I find it bizarre that he has yet to be in a Warioware game... He'd fit right in with the weirdos there!

YOU WILL LEARN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2sOpyF1nF4

Hmmm... Not bad.

i dont realy like any of these =/ xD

Hahaha! Do you have any better suggestions?

 

[UltimateWario]

So can we talk about the leaked characters yet?

I mean, seriously, we all know about them. Why can't we discuss and speculate with civility?

 

[CBO0tz]

So can we talk about the leaked characters yet?

I mean, seriously, we all know about them. Why can't we discuss and speculate with civility?

I don't know about the leaked characters.. Except for Knuckles I guess

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

So can we talk about the leaked characters yet?

I mean, seriously, we all know about them. Why can't we discuss and speculate with civility?

This isn't the place to discuss leaks. Fairly certain it's against the rules, so no.

 

[Grey Belnades]

This isn't the place to discuss leaks. Fairly certain it's against the rules, so no.

How about if we discussed it in code?

The fields of Ireland look lovely.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

How about if we discussed it in code?

The fields of Ireland look lovely.

Ireland, Ireland is full of potatoes.
The field is lovely. Lovely potatoes.
Webecca confirmed.

 

[GunBuster]

HUGE

TRACKS OF LAND

 

[Grey Belnades]

Ireland, Ireland is full of potatoes.
The field is lovely. Lovely potatoes.
Webecca confirmed.

HUGE

TRACKS OF LAND

The plains of Ireland are looking mighty green this time even after the winter leak.

She looks like she'll have a bountiful harvest later long but I hope it happens very soon instead.

The wait is killing me laddies.

 

[Nefnoj]

Ireland, Ireland is full of potatoes.
The field is lovely. Lovely potatoes.
Webecca confirmed.

"The mysterious wedding has been our wedding all along. Rebecca and I are getting wed at the wedding today! YOU are not invited! Will you be my best man?"

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

"The mysterious wedding has been our wedding all along. Rebecca and I are getting wed at the wedding today! YOU are not invited! Will you be my best man?"

Of course. I hate you brother.

 

[unlistedNiL]

So voting is closed but this is what i would have voted for:
1. Isaac
2. Ray MK11 custom robo
3. Ganon/Fzero
4. Greyfox
5. Knuckles

1/2 vote:
6. Tails

Down Vote:
shadow (just give sonic an alternative costume)

Anyway, I'm a pretty big Golden Sun fan. I want to have a discussion about Isaac. there are so many systems he can have (a PP or mana system, a system where he changes between 2 different spell sets, a djiin system).

Overview: (Lets take a quick look at all the iconic moves Isaac has and what they could be assigned to be)
Move, quake, ragnarok, titan blade, spire, rockfall, retreat, growth/thorns, Gaia, cure, flint/dijiin,Venus (summon), and judgement (summon).

Move: can be worked into isaac as a tethering grab. Can be a projectile special option.
Quake: can be a vA input or a special (with the potential side-effect of burying an opponent or flipping)
Ragnarok: can be a dair, direct-able recovery, or another special attack, either a projectile (too true to the game) or a melee lunge/fall.
Titan blade: very iconic attack,similar animation to Ragnarok. maybe this can be Ragnarok's air option if its a projectile.
Spire: can be a dair, a special projectile, or even a smash. I like PSAs version (except too much distance) spiking with a spike- genius.
Rockfall; extremely similar to spire, can be a smash or delayed projectile (similar to ivysaur's razor leaf)
Retreat: the only viable option this could be is his recovery. If PSA's recovery is this, it needs a visual revamp.
Growth/Thorns: potential smash or special option. I see it as a combo extender more than anything.
Gaia: could be a recovery, smash or special. i like PSA's version except for the coloring (red blast please)
Cure: notable since Isaac was one of your 2 major healers. special option.
Flint/dijiin: with 7 different dijiin (3 attack 4 support) there is a lot of options they dijiin can contribute. I honestly seen Isaac blocking with a dijiin. Quartz can even be a recovery since it had such a high vertical animation. But Flint is the first and one of the strongest dijiin you can get in the same. very iconic. should be a smash or a special option with good distance.
Venus: the first summon Isaac learns. Notable if a dijiin/summon system is installed.
Judgement: the end all, be all attack. Should be his final smash but if a dijiin system is installed maybe a weaker version of judgement can be an option.

Thoughts on PSA's isaac;
I've seen the Isaac model in PSA and I like most of his moves. I'm disappointed that he doesn't use a djiin tho and his up B seems totally random and not canon, wut bubbles (is this retreat)? I like his gaia attack and how it can be charged. I like the spire, its the perfect spike, it seems to give air time like Lucas' dair (is Isaac's spire a dair?), i just think it travels too much for a dair.

my issac concept : http://smashboards.com/threads/isaac-character-concept.387831/#post-18434773

What spells would you like the most in PM?

 

[Draco_The]

Catbug for PM.

 

[ChiePet]

Besides what's already a "given" for new characters, I really wish someone would clone Rosalina'sMove set from Smash4 because Ice Climbers seem perpetually doomed in PM and She's the only aspect of Smash4 I care about.

 

[unlistedNiL]

Besides what's already a "given" for new characters, I really wish someone would clone Rosalina'sMove set from Smash4 because Ice Climbers seem perpetually doomed in PM and She's the only aspect of Smash4 I care about.

I agree that PM has really roughed up the ice climbers. some people say they are still good but have a higher learning curve since they can chain grab. blah. i think they need a buff in PM tbh

 

[ChiePet]

I agree that PM has really roughed up the ice climbers. some people say they are still good but have a higher learning curve since they can chain grab. blah. i think the need a buff in PM tbh

Seconded. I felt DeSyncing in melee and brawl compared to even remotely making pM's Ice Climbers work was easy. It'sreally rough, It's almost like they're just wayy too desynced already, or just awful in comparison to Melee + New Meta from Brawl Characters.

 

[Draco_The]

Besides what's already a "given" for new characters, I really wish someone would clone Rosalina'sMove set from Smash4 because Ice Climbers seem perpetually doomed in PM and She's the only aspect of Smash4 I care about.

There are many Rosalina hacks in the works in the kc-mm forums.

 

[Nefnoj]

Besides what's already a "given" for new characters, I really wish someone would clone Rosalina'sMove set from Smash4 because Ice Climbers seem perpetually doomed in PM and She's the only aspect of Smash4 I care about.

Yeah, I wonder how close we are to porting Super Smash Bros. Four characters to Brawl... Probably not too far, given that Smash 4 isn't such a vast engine change from Brawl... But probably not close either, since we'd have to "dumb" them down to make them compatible, and, of course, get all the necessary files from Smash Four. I'll bet characters who have no projectiles, or have altered versions of preexisting projectiles would be the easiest to port:

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, I wonder how close we are to porting Super Smash Bros. Four characters to Brawl... Probably not too far, given that Smash 4 isn't such a vast engine change from Brawl... But probably not close either, since we'd have to "dumb" them down to make them compatible, and, of course, get all the necessary files from Smash Four. I'll bet characters who have no projectiles, or have altered versions of preexisting projectiles would be the easiest to port:

Someone already did Mega Man.

 

[Nefnoj]

Someone already did Mega Man.

I don't think it was a straight port though, was it?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Nope, made from scratch, but besides the Final Smash, the moveset is accurate to Smash 4.

 

[epicmartin7]

So wait, what's with these PM character leaks? I know it is very unlikely it is real, but this has just peaked my curiosity.

 

[Chag0]

If you say that the leaks are very unlikely to be real I think that they will feel better

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Didn't they say they were only going to make 7 clone engine characters? Are there going to be more after the forbidden 4..?

 

[epicmartin7]

@ Chag0 : Er... maybe. Who knows if they are real or not. The best part of any game though is speculation which drives Hype. So even though these characters were "leaked". It will drive speculation in which will lead to hype when PM 4.0 is eventually announced. So this "leak" could maybe be beneficial to the PMDT. Allthough it could just be fan mods in the game. Who knows? It's just very interesting to see what happens in the coming months. Not to mention the "leak" was revealed near the PM 3.5 announcement and release. So, it has been a while.

 

[GunBuster]

Didn't they say they were only going to make 7 clone engine characters? Are there going to be more after the forbidden 4..?

this "forbidden 4" means nothing.

So wait, what's with these PM character leaks? I know it is very unlikely it is real, but this has just peaked my curiosity.

yeah nah. before PM 3.5 somebody leaked a large portion of the remaining Clone engine characters.
had it not been for the fact that this leak also came with previews of things for 3.5 not shown yet BEFORE it was released, you could largley dismiss it. but no.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

this "forbidden 4" means nothing.



yeah nah. before PM 3.5 somebody leaked a large portion of the remaining Clone engine characters.
had it not been for the fact that this leak also came with previews of things for 3.5 not shown yet BEFORE it was released, you could largley dismiss it. but no.

So we should feel free to talk about them now? I didn't realize

 

[GunBuster]

So we should feel free to talk about them now? I didn't realize

truth be told i don't know. it's been a while since any PMDT members posted here. i think they'd prefer it if we said anything but the specifics. actually, anything at all but that's not going to happen, come the thread lock.

i'm just sick of being so indirect about it all, they really aught to just level with us. it's been well over a year since any Clone Engine character news broke by the PMDT.

 

[epicmartin7]

Well, hopefully the PMDT don't mind. We have to keep this thread chugging along with something . So with three new characters being potentially being added to the roster I think they will fit very well into the roster. The only worry I have is Knuckles as he is a Sega character and you know how SEGA can be when someone uses their IPs. I just hope they have some great movesets and not too OP if they are being incorporated into the roster.

 

[GunBuster]

Well, hopefully the PMDT don't mind. We have to keep this thread chugging along with something . So with three new characters being potentially being added to the roster I think they will fit very well into the roster. The only worry I have is Knuckles as he is a Sega character and you know how SEGA can be when someone uses their IPs. I just hope they have some great movesets and not too OP if they are being incorporated into the roster.

sega already agreed to have knuckles in smash when they let them make a trophy. there's absolutley no risk.

 

[epicmartin7]

@ GunBuster : Knuckes being there as a trophy and as a Green Hill Zone easter egg does help the PMDT alot and follows their motto. Just sayin' that SEGA just seems to be that type of company. There is probably no risk from SEGA at all. But, Sega seems to be that type of company who protects it IPs. So, lets hope that Dreamworks doesn't get mad when Shrek is confirmed .

 

[unlistedNiL]

Alright, since I already put so much work on Isaac, I'm gonna do a full moveset for him (which is very rare for me)... but given that he he is by far the number one choice, I think if anyone deserves a moveset, it might as well be him.

Overall: This moveset has Isaac as a combined summoner/swordsman character. With his mix of spells and sword attacks, he might be similar to Link (and probably, that's who he should use as his base), but he's a little different. Isaac would also play defensively, but not to Link's extent. His focus is on sticking to the ground (he does use EARTH attacks after all) and having effective spacing between him and his opponent. His aerial game and recovery are terrible (like Little Mac), so he'll have to play more aggressively than Link to rack up damage, as he'll have difficulty recovering. I definitely agree with you that Isaac should be strongest on the ground since he is an Earth adept but I dont think this means he should have a bad recovery unless if his offensive output is extreme and the poor recovery would be a way of balancing him (like falco).

Source material-wise, his attacks will pay tribute to as many as of his Venus psynergy skills as possible. This includes basic sword attacks (Helm Splitter, Sabre Dance), his wide variety of earth psynergy (eg, Gaia, Spire), plant psynergy (eg. Growth, Briar), ninja psynergy (Punji), demonic psynergy (Demon Night), and tamer psynergy (Wild Wolf). Many of these summons just summon special effects/minions that appear and disappear, while a few will actual require articles (especially his B attacks).

B attacks - These are all summons

Neutral B - Briar

A charge psynergy that shoots three spiny thorns upwards. Covers him from 60 to 120 degrees. The longer her charges, the farther they go. Effective anti-air attack, but useless against groundede enemies -- but it does have hitbox when overlapping enemies. Does not have significant knockback and only has moderate damage.

Up B - RAGNAROK

Isaac's Aether. He'll cast a giant sword around 60 degrees way above him, jump up, grab the sword, and slam it down at a downward angle. Causes some earthly splash damage upon impact. Overall, it has slightly better horizontal range than Aether, and similar height (but again, he doesn't have Ike's side B). I had the same idea as you, Ragnarok as a recovery. I also thought of retreat (the utility move, would be similar to zelda's but no hitbox), Gaia (since vertical motion), Vines and the lamest: summon a rock and jump off of it.

Side B - Demon Night

Isaac shoots out a wave of three skulls (that overlap each other, so it's really one projectile) that launch forward in a sinusoidal pattern (like Mewtwo's Shadow Ball). Does average damage. Mainly for spacing. IMO Isaac needs a projectile so this is a good candidate and the animation is awesome. I never used it too much in the game because I didn't choose that path for Isaac. That being said, Isaac is an earth adept.

Down B - Spire

Isaac sticks his hands out and summons a giant stalactite that crashes down, spiking any opponents on its way down. Similar to Pikachu's Down B. Alternatively, that attack can be a spire that spikes up from the ground. So iconic and wonderful of a move. Would be the perfect spike. Could also be a d-air if its close ranged.

Smash Attacks - These are also all summons. Isaac either raises his hands in the air or points forward or angled down when charging.
Forward Smash - Call Wild Wolf

Summon a Wild Wolf that leaps forward before disappearing.
IDR ever doing that in the game. Was this a Psyenergy moves, weapon summon or something else? I picture him using Flint, his first dijiin. *edit* oh its a psyenergy, ya i never played the tamer path either.

Up Smash - Punji

Look at the picture. Another anti-air attack. Unlike Briar, this shoots straight up, but has more knockback and acts as a KO move. I pictured another dijiin or Gaia (same hitbox tho, anti-air high vertical)

Down Smash - Quake

Causes a small quake a distance away from Isaac, in the direction he faces. The longer he charges, the farther it goes. Another spacing attack. I would hope this has finishing potential xD

Jab and TIlts
Jab - Sabre Dance

- Four hit attack similar to Marth's Dancing Blade but with much less range and knockback. This is a really cool idea. I could also see this as a brief neutral air.

Up Tilt - Fast uppercut. Hitbox is in front of Isaac.

Side Tilt - Sword slash, similar to Ike's

Down Tilt - Swings the sword low, causing dirt to spray in both directions does the dirt do anything?

Aerials
Neutral Air - Spins with his sword. Slow and very poor damage and knockback with significant ending lag. we had the same idea again, a sword spin.

Up Air - An upward sword swing. Again, poor ending lag with poor knockback and weak damage.

Forward Air and Back Air - Summons a Venus Djinn from his hand that lurches forward a little bit. Moderate damage, poor ending lag. Yay you included dijiin!

Down Air - Helm Splitter

A diving sword attack, like Link's, Toon Link's. Fast fall, meteor, but delayed start. Ragnarok would be a good option for a diving sword attack too. Is this a sword summon? idr this one tbh.

Grab, Pummel, Throws
Grab - Melee hand grab
Pummel - Punches
(Alternatively, if the game can handle so many textures... and I highly doubt it: Curse)

Enemy gets zapped with a shadow effect while a skull laughs.

Forward Throw - Move

Isaac tosses the opponent forward, and summons the Move Hand that shoves the enemy far. The move hand is also much smaller than the one he uses as an AT.

Back Throw - Move
Slams them backwards into the ground, and as they bounce up, he summons the Move Hand backwards.

Up Throw - A quick toss upwards

Down Throw - Growth

Isaac summons a small bed of vines, and smothers the opponent down into them for a multi-hit attack (kinda like Charizard's down throw)

Great grab ideas!!!

Final Smash - Grand Gaia

Enough said.
What? No judgement?! Thats GOT to be Isaac's final smash!!! IMO at least xD plus I see Gaia as a up smash or special

I really love your post! awesome and great! I enjoyed reading your thoughts and especially since they are so similar to mine. I responded in bold and underline. We've had a couple of the same ideas but I vehemently and respectfully disagree with you on his final smash. Its got to be his final smash since it was the strongest move he had in the game plus its just so iconic and awesome.

so does anyone else want to exchange thoughts on how Isaac should play if he is implemented?

As a character that has been wanted by so many fans for years, PMDT should hit a home-run with this addition to the team. Hopefully they pay attention to key aspects of Isaac such as color of his attacks, and choosing the right attacks for him. Gaia should not be white and Judgement should not be red. Minor details like this should be taken into consideration otherwise it could offset some fans. If Isaac's special (b) moves don't involve Psynergy that look and sound similar to the spells in the game, then that could also be offsetting and awkward.

key elements for issac being a successful character in PM;
1. iconic moves (Summons, Dijiin, Psynergy)
2. balance (pm is so good with this =D)
3. attention to detail (colors, sounds, motions, etc)

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Can someone read one of my requests in the Brawl Workshop and tell me if I'm being illogical? Seriously guys, I really need to know!
http://smashboards.com/threads/saki-amamiya-update-psa-request-please.387038/

 

[GunBuster]

But, Sega seems to be that type of company who protects it IPs..

you saw sonic boom, right? Sega doesn't give a ****.