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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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BaganSmashBros

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I know they won't be in other modes but from my personal standpoint I think that it would affect the game as a whole because it will cause a player to have to mix up their strategy in ways that would affect tournament play style.
ANY CHANGES will affect tournament play style, even slight tether recovery changes done for version 3.5. If that is really an issue, then everything that was changed will ruin the fun, including addition of Roy and Mewtwo (those 2 are different from Melee versions, with Roy having more noticable changes). And tournaments+fun? I though it was serious stuff. And shouldn't competent tournament players be ready for any changes, especially for something like Project M? Don't you need to be ready for anything to happen and adapt to opponent's strategy? Im a "for fun" player, so, i don't understand most of this stuff, but i know what can affect tournament play style.
I don't know how they added them, but no, they don't crash the game. They're included in the Pokemon and Fire Emblem battles just like any other character, although their stock icon appears as Mario's when you're in the waiting room.
Oh, its just that game crashed when i was in the middle of All-Stars mode. This whole Mario icon thing instead of Mewtwo/Roy is also present with trophies they get. Still impressive.
 
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GunBuster

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from my personal standpoint I think that it would affect the game as a whole

This mod effects the game as a whole. you are making a bad argument against any of this.






anyway, anybody else feel directionless this week without the PM Art Tuesday?
 

NisforSmash

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Messages
433
I know they won't be in other modes but from my personal standpoint I think that it would affect the game as a whole because it will cause a player to have to mix up their strategy in ways that would affect tournament play style.
I'm not gonna throw my opinion out but what you said doesn't really make any sense.

Here's why:

I know they won't be in other modes
This part is okay.
but from my personal standpoint I think that it would affect the game as a whole
Interesting view. What you basically said here is that you think it'll affect the entirety of Super Smash Brothers Brawl Project M. The inclusion of these characters to you will change the overall product to one that is worse than if they had just left the characters out.

Everyone has a couple of characters that do that for them so there's nothing wrong here.

because it will cause a player to have to mix up their strategy in ways that would affect tournament play style.
Here's where everything get's lost.

Your saying the inclusion of these characters will force people to have to change their strategy. If you mean match-ups then yes, but that is a requirement of all characters.

Even still, in the context of your argument that doesn't make any sense. Then you go on to say that the strategy mix up, which is the effect of the inclusion of these characters, will affect tournament play style. At this point you may have combined two terms which need not be combined. Tournament Play is self explanatory. Play style is how a player plays a specific character that differs from the ideal play of said character. By saying tournament play style, your referring to the way players play their specific character at tournaments.

Broken down each piece makes sense. Some less than others but individually they each have some sense to them however if we put it together, what we get is something that doesn't really say anything besides what each individual piece says on it's own. This is your sentence translated:

*Clears Throat*

My dearest BaganSmashBros,


By including characters that are not in melee, project m will become a game of lesser quality. The reason the game won't be as good is because the inclusion of any character outside of super smash brothers melee will cause players to have to change the way they play the game which, in whatever way the players may change the way they play, will cause the overall way players play their characters at tournaments to be of variation than if they had not been included at all. I do however understand that they will not be included in modes other than the standard ones. This does not affect my position.

Regards,

Payton

tl;dr

If that makes sense to you....

 

JCOnyx

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I know this is quite sometime later, but I'm just starting to go through like 20+ pages for votes and have some conflicts coming up.

I figured I might as well vote for once.

+1 Ridley
+1 Sukapon
+1 Balloon Fighter
+1 Tom Nook
+1 Baby Bowser (clearly not Bowser Jr.)


.5 Waluigi
.5 K Rool
.5 Baby Peach
.5 Baby Mario

-1 Ninten : Waste of a slot. He's too similar to Ness who was basically meant to be an updated version on Ninten. And considering Mother already has 2 representatives from it's series of 3 games, adding another Mother character would be silly. At most, he could be an alt costume for Ness, but even then a costume like that would be pretty redundant.
-1 Ray : Custom Robo was a horrible game and I don't want to be reminded of it. The amount of work it would take to create an accurate representation of this character far exceeds the character's worth for this roster.
-1 Lyn : Waste of a slot. There shouldn't be 2 clone engine characters from the same series. I don't care if she is your waifu.
-1 Dixie Kong : I think her moveset potential is uninteresting and would rather have a more interesting character/playstyle than what she would bring.
Just as a heads up Yursaman, you had actually already voted really early on it seems. I'll go ahead and list out what we had you down for previously:

+1
Isaac, Ridley, K Rool, Masked Man, Goroh

+1/2
Ganon/BS, Saki, Sukapon, Bowser Jr.

-1
Lyn, Damus, Sami, Dixie, Paper Mario, Andy

Each of these characters have a lot to bring to the table in terms of moveset potential and originality, I feel any of them would make great additions.
King K. Rool: +1
Sami: +1
Dark Samus: +1
Waluigi: +1
Ridley: +1
Paper Mario: +1

However these two I don't see the appeal of, and generally would rather not see them be used. While Lip could have a fairly unique moveset potentially, she has very little apparent to work on excpet Lip's Stick's damage over time mechanic.
Pichu: -1
Lip: -1
You only have 5 +1 votes to use and there are 6 here, which one would you like to demote to a half vote?
 

Nixie

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
364
+1 Dark Samus
+1 Sami

1/2 Isaac
1/2 Ray

-1 Ridley
While I definitely think Metroid deserves its second representative, I don't think Ridley should be the one to do that. Everyone on the roster is humanoid or displays some kind of personality, whereas Ridley (forgive me if this is wrong, I haven't actually played much of the series) seems less like a character and more like... A monster. His grotesque traits are good for the boss that he already is twice, but I honestly feel like he would be a jarring addition to the roster.
I'd much prefer Dark Samus, as it(?) seems much more practical and the way the op described it made it sound like it would make for a very fun spin on Samus.

-1 King K.Rool
Not as lengthy here. Again like with Ridley I think the design is ugly (maybe even abhorrent in this case) and I don't feel the DK series needs a 3rd rep (nor the smash series needs more villains, especially ones as seemingly irrelevant as this..?) as much as some other series need their first or even their second rep.

So there are my votes, assuming they count for anything given my registration date and whatnot.
I think I followed the rules for the most part but I'm not entirely sure, so sorry if I did anything wrong.
 

Hidan

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While I definitely think Metroid deserves its second representative, I don't think Ridley should be the one to do that. Everyone on the roster is humanoid or displays some kind of personality, whereas Ridley (forgive me if this is wrong, I haven't actually played much of the series) seems less like a character and more like... A monster. His grotesque traits are good for the boss that he already is twice, but I honestly feel like he would be a jarring addition to the roster.
Not going to ask you to change your down vote, as it is valid, but saying he's just a monster is not true in the slightest. He may attack a bit primitively, but he is far from simply being monstrous. Even his Melee trophy says as much:

The head of the Space Pirates on Zebes, Ridley soars through space on wicked wings. Ridley may look like a mindless monster, but he's actually quite intelligent. After the SR-388 incident, where Samus captured the infant Metroid, Ridley took the Space Academy by storm, annihilating the complex and taking the Metroid back.
In the Metroid Manga Ridley actually speaks and is quite intelligence. A lot of his attacks and motions in even the Prime games show that he calculates his movements and plans ahead. I could go on with examples but I don't really want to derail the thread; but regardless, he isn't just some mindless beast (Brawl Ridley portrays him poorly, but Brawl Meta Ridley is a better example).
 

JayJay55

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Messages
337
+1 Dark Samus
+1 Sami

1/2 Isaac
1/2 Ray

-1 Ridley
While I definitely think Metroid deserves its second representative, I don't think Ridley should be the one to do that. Everyone on the roster is humanoid or displays some kind of personality, whereas Ridley (forgive me if this is wrong, I haven't actually played much of the series) seems less like a character and more like... A monster. His grotesque traits are good for the boss that he already is twice, but I honestly feel like he would be a jarring addition to the roster.
I'd much prefer Dark Samus, as it(?) seems much more practical and the way the op described it made it sound like it would make for a very fun spin on Samus.

-1 King K.Rool
Not as lengthy here. Again like with Ridley I think the design is ugly (maybe even abhorrent in this case) and I don't feel the DK series needs a 3rd rep (nor the smash series needs more villains, especially ones as seemingly irrelevant as this..?) as much as some other series need their first or even their second rep.

So there are my votes, assuming they count for anything given my registration date and whatnot.
I think I followed the rules for the most part but I'm not entirely sure, so sorry if I did anything wrong.
While your vote and your opinion on K. Rool's design is valid, there is only one thing I strongly disagree with in your reasoning for the vote. King K. Rool is not an irrelevant villain although he is seemingly irrelevant to you and I don't see how adding villains hurt Smash since we only have Bowser, Ganondorf, and Wolf (King Dedede and Meta Knight aren't villains, Wolf is arguable, but I count him as one). He's a major villain in the DK series, King K. Rool is what Bowser is to Mario. Fans of the DK series have waited a long time for his revival in the main series DK games and hopefully wanted him in Smash (one of the biggest games Nintendo produces) at the very least other than just minor spin-off games, I understand that there are other series that only have one rep and don't even have a rep to begin with but DK has been in Smash since the beginning and has only 2 reps while other series have or have had around 3-7(Mario, Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Star Fox [in Brawl], Pokemon). I'm still puzzled as to why Earthbound (Mother) and Star Fox loses a rep (in Smash 4) and and F-Zero gains none (since Smash 64), DK gains none (since Brawl), and Metroid gains none (since Brawl).

That's just my two cents, I'm sorry if anything in this comment comes off as hostile or anything I was just stating my opinion.
 
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NisforSmash

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Interesting thought i just had. Even though mewtwo would be a better fit, what if Ridley fought primarily with his tail like Freeza?
 

JarBear

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Interesting thought i just had. Even though mewtwo would be a better fit, what if Ridley fought primarily with his tail like Freeza?
Interesting thought. Maybe a mix of Mewtwo and Charizard in the sense of attacks? Tail swipes and some fire attacks?
 

AuraShaman

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..........*crash lands into this thread after the Ridley hoopla in the 50-Fact Extraveganza* WHOOOOOO!!! That was a blast!

...Did I miss anything?


Anyways, the character I'm voting isn't on the list, but it came to my mind when looking at the "Dracula's Castle" stage. It came to my mind it would feel incomplete without...


Simon Belmont, from Castlevania!


Now I dunno jack about Castlevania, but I do know he's got a Shiek-like whip, cross boomerangs, and some other demon-slaying crap I don't know about because I never play it. I'm only suggesting Simon to the list because it would make the Dracula's Castle stage much more than just a fan-made stage out of the blue.




Aaaaaaaaand now someone will bring up licensing, projectiles, and other crap that makes this suggestion a mere dream.
 
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GunBuster

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..........*crash lands into this thread after the Ridley hoopla in the 50-Fact Extraveganza* WHOOOOOO!!! That was a blast!

...Did I miss anything?


Anyways, the character I'm voting isn't on the list, but it came to my mind when looking at the "Dracula's Castl" stage. It came to my mind it would feel incomplete without...


Simon Belmont, from Castlevania!


Now I dunno jack about Castlevania, but I do know he's got a Shiek-like whip, cross boomerangs, and some other demon-slaying crap I don't know about because I never play it. I'm only suggesting Simon to the list because it would make the Dracula's Castle stage much more than just a fan-made stage out of the blue.




Aaaaaaaaand now someone will bring up licensing, projectiles, and other crap that makes this suggestion a mere dream.
i hear the dracula castle is only a placeholder for now anyway.
 

AuraShaman

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i hear the dracula castle is only a placeholder for now anyway.
Bomberman's in Brawl tho
Alright! New Goal: get in Bomberman, while replacing Dracula's Castle with Bomb-something, and replace the tracks with ambiguous Capcom crap!


....

............


................Say, if PM's last Art Tuesday was the last, wouldn't it mean 3.5 should be out by now?
 

Shin F.

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Alright! New Goal: get in Bomberman, while replacing Dracula's Castle with Bomb-something, and replace the tracks with ambiguous Capcom crap!


....

............


................Say, if PM's last Art Tuesday was the last, wouldn't it mean 3.5 should be out by now?
Bomberman didn't actually appear in Brawl. He was just referenced by name in the Chronicle, which does not constitute an actual appearance.

And no, PM 3.5 hasn't had a release date announced. Just like last year's Turbo Tuesdays, Art Tuesdays were just a bonus for us.
 
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InfinityCollision

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1,245
+1:
-Dark Samus: Speedy, perhaps even run-and-gun Samus variant with potential for some unique normals (phazon tendrils etc) as well? Sign me up. I like Samus but her air game is just not my cup of tea.
-Lyn: I'm a big FE fan and I'd love a really quick/agile swords(wo)man on the roster. Potential new main material if the flow of her movement and moveset is right.
-Ray Mk III: I'm putting this vote in under Ray Mk III since that's the Custom Robo rep on the first page, but I'd actually prefer to see Ray 01. I think it's a better fit aesthetically, but it might be more work to implement. Has potential for a really interesting and unique playstyle given Custom Robo's battle mechanics.
-Skull Kid: Taunt canceling his laugh all day while messing with my opponent's head? Yeah, that sounds good. I'd love to see the PMDT's take on a trickster character.

I'll put in a -1 some other time. I'd -1 Shadowdorf, but I don't think there's any real chance of that happening so it feels like a wasted vote.
 

steakhouse

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**+1**

Ridley

Iconic, can be cloned off Charizard who has a similar body shape and a somewhat similar idea of fighting style : launch em up, combo em hard. I suppose Ridley would be more projectile and range-based (that tail in super metroid is so damn long) tho as opposed to Char's into-your-face style. Ridley should also diffirentiate himself from Char ; for example, Char is great at killing off the top and has phenomenal edgegame, so Ridley should be better at killing off the sides and at wall-of-paining.
Moveset ideas :
-Tail swipe (Downsmash ?) as seen in Metroid Prime where he turns around and deals heavy damage all around him due to his tail
-Charge (side-B ?) from Metroid Prime. Goes further when used from the ground.
-Fireball (neutral B ?) as seen on Meta Ridley in Brawl where he approaches the middle of the Falcon Flyer and shoots a bigass fireball that blows up half the stage. Chargeable from small harass to huge nuke. Shoots diagonaly down when airborne or forward when grounded (eg PK Fire)
-Pogo Tail (Down B ? Down air ?) from Super Metroid. Somewhat similar to bowser bomb. Leap forward, come crashing down. Spikes on the tip. Can be used up to three times if re-input slightly before hitting the ground (L-cancelling timing ?) ; the more bounces, the harsher the landing lag
-Sky Drop (Up-B ?) from Brawl and Other M when Ridley grabs Samus and drags her accross the walls. Quickly leaps upwards. If an enemy is within trajectory, Ridley grabs them then throws them diagonaly down and forward (aimable ?). Ridley enters free fall after using this move, even if it hits, as to not make it too strong of an edgeguarding tool. Could also work as a similar move to ganon's side-B. If that's too strong, trajectory could be meteor with Ridley coming crashing behind the enemy for a stomp (as seen in his Brawl boss battle)
Ridley's weak spot in the prime series is always within his mouth, so being dealt more damage in the mouth could be a cool mechanic.

Ganon / Black Shadow

Requested since Melee, so obvious choice. I'd keep the Flame Choke on Ganon and give Black Shadow a different kind of Raptor Boost (PMDT could take inspiration from Ganon and Falcon's side-B customs from Sm4sh for that matter). The Triforce Ganondorf PSA is an excellent base for Ganon in my opinion. His quake punch (he uses it when you get too close to him in OOT) better be part of him !

Skull Kid

So many options for how to build his character as the powers of Majora's Mask are frikkin broad. Here's a couple things that are directly caused by Skull Kid in Zelda:MM, not even including his straight-up attacks from the boss fight (the sniping fire ray would make a perfect chargeable neutral B). Should be a gimmick king and a physics alterer (clone him off luigi to steal his negative zone) as he does weird **** throughout the whole game (teleport horses, turns people into plantmen, crashes planets onto other planets, causes global warming). Give him his solarbeam from his bossfight, obligatory. Could be kinda like Robin's sniper shot from Sm4sh. The exploding Beyblades should be added as well.

Dark Samus

Other superpopular character. Clone her off Samus obviously, but there's plenty of source material to make her into her own character (e.g. as different as Mario n Luigi as opposed to Fox n Falco). Dsmash could be the phazon burst around her from metroid prime 3, neutral B could be a scattershot. How about a mechanic similar to Lucario where she gains a phazon charge over time and can spend it on neutral B to make the scattershot a rapid-fire one, down B for a hyper bomb, side-B for a phazon missle (super quick nuke, kinda like a weaker light arrow (zelda final smash)) and up-B for a phazon grapple which deals fast damage over time as long as the target is tethered (those are all of Samus' phazon-enhancable moves from Prime 3) (Dark Samus can fly but doesn't have a Screw Attack as Samus didn't have that ability in Prime 1 and all of Dark Samus' abilities are stolen from Samus' Prime 1 arsenal).

Pichu Bros

Mostly because I only have a top 4 in popular character requests, and since Pichu just isn't that appealing, I think Pichu Bros. (with Plusle + Minun as an alt maybe ?) would make a great character. With a much higher cieling than ICs, desynced grabs, desynced Thunder and grab-to-thunder would make the Pichu Bros extremely powerful combo beasts and edgeguarders, while still remaining frail from their light weight, average neutrléal game due to poor range and self-damage.

**+0.5** (honorable mentions)

Ray MKIII, he looks kinda cool
K. Rool, self explanatory
Micaiah, moar magic users
Lyn, she looks like a blast to play
Krystal, so much potential through staff despite not being a fanfavorite at all
Any of the Hunters from the Prime series (Rundas, Sylux ?)

**-1** (do not want)

Anything 3rd party, let's not attract any unecessary attention

Characters that I feel would be too generic or too similar to their clone-base to be worth the 700+ hours of development time :
-Paper Mario, except as an alt costume (too bad mario's full amirite)
-Toad
-Young Link, except as an alt costume
-Claus (a clone of a clone ?)
-Ninten (enough with the true clones)

Characters that just aren't that hype, or are too obscure or undesired when compared to the rest of the requested characters to be greeted with anything else than ire by disapointed fans :
-Rawk Hawk
-Slippy Toad (I can't even imagine the flamewar that would follow his reveal)
-Sukapon (what is this even)
-Balloon Fighter (same reasoning)
-Lip, Takamaru, Prince of Sablé (too obscure)
-Tom Nook (everything but a fighter)
-Primid (why not a goomba ?)

...

On a side note, as a Smash rep, how would you feel about a shapeshifting polygon ? Since polygons have no specials, its B moves would randomly transform it into one of the perfect attendance crew (12 fighters from Smash 64) with some level of control. For instance, up-B would shapeshift to Jiggs, Kirby or Yoshi (chars with good special-less recoveries), side-B could go to usualy projectile-heavy characters (Link, Samus, Ness ?), down-B would go to hard hitters (DK, Falcon, Fox) and neutral-B to well rounded fighters (Mario, Luigi, Pika)
 
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Anti Guy

Couch Tomato
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**+1**

Ridley

Iconic, can be cloned off Charizard who has a similar body shape and a somewhat similar idea of fighting style : launch em up, combo em hard. I suppose Ridley would be more projectile and range-based (that tail in super metroid is so damn long) tho as opposed to Char's into-your-face style. Ridley should also diffirentiate himself from Char ; for example, Char is great at killing off the top and has phenomenal edgegame, so Ridley should be better at killing off the sides and at wall-of-paining.
Moveset ideas :
-Tail swipe (Downsmash ?) as seen in Metroid Prime where he turns around and deals heavy damage all around him due to his tail
-Charge (side-B ?) from Metroid Prime. Goes further when used from the ground.
-Fireball (neutral B ?) as seen on Meta Ridley in Brawl where he approaches the middle of the Falcon Flyer and shoots a bigass fireball that blows up half the stage. Chargeable from small harass to huge nuke. Shoots diagonaly down when airborne or forward when grounded (eg PK Fire)
-Pogo Tail (Down B ? Down air ?) from Super Metroid. Somewhat similar to bowser bomb. Leap forward, come crashing down. Spikes on the tip. Can be used up to three times if re-input slightly before hitting the ground (L-cancelling timing ?) ; the more bounces, the harsher the landing lag
-Sky Drop (Up-B ?) from Brawl and Other M when Ridley grabs Samus and drags her accross the walls. Quickly leaps upwards. If an enemy is within trajectory, Ridley grabs them then throws them diagonaly down and forward (aimable ?). Ridley enters free fall after using this move, even if it hits, as to not make it too strong of an edgeguarding tool. Could also work as a similar move to ganon's side-B. If that's too strong, trajectory could be meteor with Ridley coming crashing behind the enemy for a stomp (as seen in his Brawl boss battle)
Ridley's weak spot in the prime series is always within his mouth, so being dealt more damage in the mouth could be a cool mechanic.

Ganon / Black Shadow

Requested since Melee, so obvious choice. I'd keep the Flame Choke on Ganon and give Black Shadow a different kind of Raptor Boost (PMDT could take inspiration from Ganon and Falcon's side-B customs from Sm4sh for that matter). The Triforce Ganondorf PSA is an excellent base for Ganon in my opinion. His quake punch (he uses it when you get too close to him in OOT) better be part of him !

Skull Kid

So many options for how to build his character as the powers of Majora's Mask are frikkin broad. Here's a couple things that are directly caused by Skull Kid in Zelda:MM, not even including his straight-up attacks from the boss fight (the sniping fire ray would make a perfect chargeable neutral B). Should be a gimmick king and a physics alterer (clone him off luigi to steal his negative zone) as he does weird **** throughout the whole game (teleport horses, turns people into plantmen, crashes planets onto other planets, causes global warming). Give him his solarbeam from his bossfight, obligatory. Could be kinda like Robin's sniper shot from Sm4sh. The exploding Beyblades should be added as well.

Dark Samus

Other superpopular character. Clone her off Samus obviously, but there's plenty of source material to make her into her own character (e.g. as different as Mario n Luigi as opposed to Fox n Falco). Dsmash could be the phazon burst around her from metroid prime 3, neutral B could be a scattershot. How about a mechanic similar to Lucario where she gains a phazon charge over time and can spend it on neutral B to make the scattershot a rapid-fire one, down B for a hyper bomb, side-B for a phazon missle (super quick nuke, kinda like a weaker light arrow (zelda final smash)) and up-B for a phazon grapple which deals fast damage over time as long as the target is tethered (those are all of Samus' phazon-enhancable moves from Prime 3) (Dark Samus can fly but doesn't have a Screw Attack as Samus didn't have that ability in Prime 1 and all of Dark Samus' abilities are stolen from Samus' Prime 1 arsenal).

Pichu Bros

Mostly because I only have a top 4 in popular character requests, and since Pichu just isn't that appealing, I think Pichu Bros. (with Plusle + Minun as an alt maybe ?) would make a great character. With a much higher cieling than ICs, desynced grabs, desynced Thunder and grab-to-thunder would make the Pichu Bros extremely powerful combo beasts and edgeguarders, while still remaining frail from their light weight, average neutrléal game due to poor range and self-damage.

**+0.5** (honorable mentions)

Ray MKIII, he looks kinda cool
K. Rool, self explanatory
Micaiah, moar magic users
Lyn, she looks like a blast to play
Krystal, so much potential through staff despite not being a fanfavorite at all
Any of the Hunters from the Prime series (Rundas, Sylux ?)

**-1** (do not want)

Anything 3rd party, let's not attract any unecessary attention
Paper Mario
Rawk Hawk
Ashley
Toad
Red
Young Link, except as an alt costume
Samurai Goroh
Slippy Toad
Claus (a clone of a clone ?)
Ninten (enough with the true clones)
Sukapon (what is this even)
Balloon Fighter (same reasoning)
Lip, Takamaru, Prince of Sablé (too obscure)
Tom Nook (everything but a fighter)
Primid (why not a goomba ?)

...

On a side note, as a Smash rep, how would you feel about a shapeshifting polygon ? Since polygons have no specials, its B moves would randomly transform it into one of the perfect attendance crew (12 fighters from Smash 64) with some level of control. For instance, up-B would shapeshift to Jiggs, Kirby or Yoshi (chars with good special-less recoveries), side-B could go to usualy projectile-heavy characters (Link, Samus, Ness ?), down-B would go to hard hitters (DK, Falcon, Fox) and neutral-B to well rounded fighters (Mario, Luigi, Pika)
Your -1s all need reasons

I should also add that your "everything but a fighter" for Tom Nook is a very poor reason in Smash Bros...
 
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ZeruSlayer

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May 31, 2014
Messages
201
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On a side note, as a Smash rep, how would you feel about a shapeshifting polygon ? Since polygons have no specials, its B moves would randomly transform it into one of the perfect attendance crew (12 fighters from Smash 64) with some level of control. For instance, up-B would shapeshift to Jiggs, Kirby or Yoshi (chars with good special-less recoveries), side-B could go to usualy projectile-heavy characters (Link, Samus, Ness ?), down-B would go to hard hitters (DK, Falcon, Fox) and neutral-B to well rounded fighters (Mario, Luigi, Pika)
So you're saying you want a Mokujin (from Tekken) like character. I am 100% opposed to this. I would go into reasons why I don't like this idea but I want to spare you the 100+ word (minimum) essay. All I will say is that a character like that goes against what Smash stands for and what Project M stands for in terms of balancing (in my opinion). Maybe as a game type like multi-man brawl but as a character...no chance.
 

Nixie

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Young Link, except as an alt costume
I'm pretty sure that can't happen.
Also I don't think you are the only one to make that suggestion either, which is somewhat disheartening.
 
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TreK

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+1 :
-Ganon/Black Shadow
-Micaiah
-Tetra
-Isaac
-Skull Kid

More villains and females, basically :p
Plus protagonists of unrepresented franchises that are freaking good.

+0.5 :
-Andy (this guy is in my top 5 tied with skull kid but I just realized I had six t_t)
-King K Rool
-Dark Samus
-Ashley
-Lyn
-Hector
-Tom Nook
-Waluigi

Those are just characters that I really like but didn't quite make it into my own personnal top5.
Waluigi is actually top tier in Mario Football, which is very popular in France. I've mained the guy in every game he's been featured in so far.

-1 :
-Ridley : yes, I have seen all the PSAs. My argument is not "he's too big", it's "if you scale him down he looks stupid". I mean look at his neck, it's one inch thick even if you still make Ridley huge (for a Smash character). He can barely breathe, let alone eat.
-Any third party characters, I don't want PM to get a C&D to the face.
-Primid : yeaaaahh... no. Waluigi has more charisma than this guy and that says a lot.
 
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steakhouse

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I'm pretty sure that can't happen.
Also I don't think you are the only one to make that suggestion either, which is somewhat disheartening.
Toon Link's Brawl Vault page is filled with Young Toon Link textures. A true young link wouldn't be possible because of the different bones and hitboxes.
How is that disheartening, btw ? Surely you don't think Young Link brings enough to the table to be a better inclusion than the rest of the list, do you ? Only way of making him interesting would be to give him transformations through masks which would soak up 4 slots for a single character.

obscurity is never a good reason
obscurity is a good enough reason when you have 5 slots left and massive fan request. No matter how well designed, Sukapon will never be anywhere as much of a fanfavorite as any of the current top 5 requested.

So you're saying you want a Mokujin (from Tekken) like character. I am 100% opposed to this. I would go into reasons why I don't like this idea but I want to spare you the 100+ word (minimum) essay. All I will say is that a character like that goes against what Smash stands for and what Project M stands for in terms of balancing (in my opinion). Maybe as a game type like multi-man brawl but as a character...no chance.
this is a fair point. I'd disagree that it's what smash and PM stand for since all-star battle is a thing that's coming up, but I get your meaning.

Edit : After looking up Mokujin (which is Combot from Tekken 4 or Edgemaster from Soulcal), I was more thinking of Convinct from Newgrounds Rumble, in that the character randomly changes during the match every 20 seconds instead of round-to-round.

Your -1s all need reasons

I should also add that your "everything but a fighter" for Tom Nook is a very poor reason in Smash Bros...
I edited my post. Good enough ?
 
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Pacack

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-1 :
-Ridley : yes, I have seen all the PSAs. My argument is not "he's too big", it's "if you scale him down he looks stupid". I mean look at his neck, it's one inch thick even if you still make Ridley huge (for a Smash character). He can barely breathe, let alone eat.
That's just his design in Brawl. If you have an issue with that, there's always this Ridley:




And, even then, it's not like normal Ridley will always look terrible:




Does that not look reasonable enough? Especially considering it's just a mock up?
 

Ragiroth

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So has there been any update on if or when the PM team is adding more characters? I've heard some rumored characters like Knuckles, Skull Kid, and Sami. Also is there a way to see if I posted in this topic. Haven't been on this board in awhile.
 

steakhouse

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So has there been any update on if or when the PM team is adding more characters? I've heard some rumored characters like Knuckles, Skull Kid, and Sami. Also is there a way to see if I posted in this topic. Haven't been on this board in awhile.
thing about skull kid is that they hide "47" somewhere in pretty much every one of their announcements ; event match 47 in Melee is trophy tussle for Majora's Mask, so people are speculating that Skull Kid (who wears Majora's Mask) is on the way.
 

Nixie

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Toon Link's Brawl Vault page is filled with Young Toon Link textures. A true young link wouldn't be possible because of the different bones and hitboxes.
How is that disheartening, btw ? Surely you don't think Young Link brings enough to the table to be a better inclusion than the rest of the list, do you ? Only way of making him interesting would be to give him transformations through masks which would soak up 4 slots for a single character.
Oh okay, I was thinking you wanted a true one which wouldn't work for either link.
It's much less disheartening now, as that wasn't meant to imply I'd rather have him as a character rather than as an unfeasible alternate costume, because I don't care to have him at all.
 

Ragiroth

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@QQQQQQ7-Ah damn. Ah well, maybe that means there will be even better characters coming then.

@ steakhouse steakhouse -Interesting. I would love if Skull Kid could be playable. MM needs some love in terms of a playable character.
 

TreK

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That's just his design in Brawl. If you have an issue with that, there's always this Ridley:




And, even then, it's not like normal Ridley will always look terrible:




Does that not look reasonable enough? Especially considering it's just a mock up?
This ridley's neck does look slightly better, but he's still one head taller and two marios larger than vanilla ridley, which is already one head taller and one mario wider than bowser.
Shrink him down a bit more and see how that looks. My bet is "stupid".
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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This ridley's neck does look slightly better, but he's still one head taller and two marios larger than vanilla ridley, which is already one head taller and one mario wider than bowser.
Shrink him down a bit more and see how that looks. My bet is "stupid".
Duckface Ridley ALWAYS looks stupid though.
 

ZeruSlayer

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this is a fair point. I'd disagree that it's what smash and PM stand for since all-star battle is a thing that's coming up, but I get your meaning.

Edit : After looking up Mokujin (which is Combot from Tekken 4 or Edgemaster from Soulcal), I was more thinking of Convinct from Newgrounds Rumble, in that the character randomly changes during the match every 20 seconds instead of round-to-round.
I was vague on my reasoning about the character so this is my fault (was doing assignments and other school stuff :p). When I said the polygon you were suggesting is against what smash stands for this was the reason: you suggested eliminating what little creativity this character had by making all his special moves a randomizer (I don't think anyone would appreciate a character so limited move wise). For the what PM stands for, the problem lies in balance; which PM is known for compared to every other Smash game. Move wise the character is limited, his RNG gimmick does nothing beneficial for the player...hell, it hinders the player if anything (Less moves=less options= less potential).

Personally if I was pushing for a character like this I would let the randomizer move be exclusively his neutral b so when he changes he still has access to 3 other specials. Would it be considered competitive? No but PM doesn't cater only to the competitive scene. Would he be considered balanced? He's taking assets from balanced characters the only thing hindering him is that he doesn't take their neutral b which makes him viable, fun, and gimmicky in the casual aspect.

In terms of worth I feel anything from the Smash Bros. Series shouldn't be considered for a character slot (there's so much potential, nostalgia, and history that comes from a real Nintendo rep than someone like Primid or Tabuu...sorry Primid supporters :ohwell:).

In regards to your edit, that concept actually sounds really interesting for a game type. Think about it, you can play it in any mode stock, timed, and coin (if ppl still play coin battle :smirk:). You start off in the character select screen with your friends, you're free to select your first character (and you have the option of starting random too if you want a fully random game) then every ? seconds your character switches having the portal animation from Subspace Emissary or sfx to signify the next fighter entering; the fighter will still have the same percentage as the character he/she switched with. A little off topic for a clone engine thread but it's a little food for thought :).
 
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NhgrtPlayer

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+1 :
- Lyn
- Isaac
- Saki
- Black Shadow (and, with him, Ganon's "rework")
- Dark Samus

+0.5 :
- Tetra/Toon Zelda : A Toon Zelda/Sheik can only be awesome ! haha
- Ridley
- Krystal
- Tails
- Knuckles
- Paper Mario
 

Marakatu

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Toon Link's Brawl Vault page is filled with Young Toon Link textures. A true young link wouldn't be possible because of the different bones and hitboxes.
How is that disheartening, btw ? Surely you don't think Young Link brings enough to the table to be a better inclusion than the rest of the list, do you ? Only way of making him interesting would be to give him transformations through masks which would soak up 4 slots for a single character.



obscurity is a good enough reason when you have 5 slots left and massive fan request. No matter how well designed, Sukapon will never be anywhere as much of a fanfavorite as any of the current top 5 requested.



this is a fair point. I'd disagree that it's what smash and PM stand for since all-star battle is a thing that's coming up, but I get your meaning.

Edit : After looking up Mokujin (which is Combot from Tekken 4 or Edgemaster from Soulcal), I was more thinking of Convinct from Newgrounds Rumble, in that the character randomly changes during the match every 20 seconds instead of round-to-round.



I edited my post. Good enough ?
Here's why obscurity is never a good a reason: this poll will measure the popularity of the characters. This poll will determine who is obscure and who is not. There's no point of downvoting for obscurity, because the real obscure characters will get few to no votes. Downvoting for obscurity is like giving a student an F because he got a D.
 

Pacack

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This ridley's neck does look slightly better, but he's still one head taller and two marios larger than vanilla ridley, which is already one head taller and one mario wider than bowser.
Shrink him down a bit more and see how that looks. My bet is "stupid".
What's the problem with the size now, though? He's large, but he can just fill the niche of the largest character. His attack power and speed wouldn't be diminished from canon, but that would be counterbalanced by him having such a large frame (meaning any mistake would be easily punished).

(Also keep in mind that the wings are not hitboxes.)
 
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AuraShaman

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This ridley's neck does look slightly better, but he's still one head taller and two marios larger than vanilla ridley, which is already one head taller and one mario wider than bowser.
Shrink him down a bit more and see how that looks. My bet is "stupid".
That seems a bit closed-minded of you, don't you think? How can you figure out playable Ridley will make him or brake him if you don't even give it a chance?
 

AuraShaman

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Hmmm.... No, he needs to be bigger. He needs to at least keep the canon of being bigger than Samus. Say, why not this Ridley be on all-fours, allowing him to be even bigger as a fighter? Maybe push it a bit by making him as tall as Ganondorf when on all fours! Eh? Ehhhh?


....I will always support Duck-face Gorilla Roidley. :lick:
 
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