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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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Anti Guy

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It would be a possibility, but the fact remains that Pichu right now is a horrible candidate. No matter how much certain people here want Pichu, he currently has a horrible popularity. As of now, he has 17 full votes, 14 half votes, and 28 negative votes, for a sum of -4. 52.5% of those voting on the subject of Pichu are in favor. That's not even close to a 2/3 majority (which are colored yellow to green in my latest tally). For as loud as their voices have gotten on Pichu in this topic, it's just something they have to accept that won't be a popular choice. In other words, it would be a poor use of the PMBR's time, and I'm pretty sure they recognize this as well. It doesn't help that there are several other popular clones ahead in voting too.
 

l3thargy

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It would be a possibility, but the fact remains that Pichu right now is a horrible candidate. No matter how much certain people here want Pichu, he currently has a horrible popularity. As of now, he has 17 full votes, 14 half votes, and 28 negative votes, for a sum of -4. 52.5% of those voting on the subject of Pichu are in favor. That's not even close to a 2/3 majority (which are colored yellow to green in my latest tally). For as loud as their voices have gotten on Pichu in this topic, it's just something they have to accept that won't be a popular choice. In other words, it would be a poor use of the PMBR's time, and I'm pretty sure they recognize this as well. It doesn't help that there are several other popular clones ahead in voting too.
The reason Pichu bros wouldn't work is because the people want Pichu. Singular. Turning him into Pikachu Climbers wouldn't fly. If you want that, Plusle and Minun is an option. But I doubt people would want 2 more Pokémon characters and both of them be Pika clones. So yeah, just Pichu.
my original post on page 1 says that I'm down-voting all pokemon, mario, and zelda characters (excluding ganondorf/blackshadow) so I don't want Plusle and Minun, I don't even want Pichu, I just posted Pichu bros as an alternative that I and perhaps others wouldn't be as apposed to

(also i'm going to redo my votes as more characters have been mentioned that I think would be nice to see)
 

Arteen

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I can't imagine why the Project M team wouldn't add Pichu. They've gone through a lot of effort to bring back Roy and Mewtwo. That added the best parts of Doc to Mario's moveset, and are even giving him a Dr Mario costume. Young Link is already in (as Toon Link). Pichu is the one last Melee fighter to make it to Brawl.

Not only would he be relatively easy to implement (as Pikachu clone, of course), but it'd be a fun challenge to bring Pichu up to the level of the rest of the fighters.
 

trojanpooh

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I figured that if Pichu was to be added into the game I think it would be more interesting if it was as a team of two, but yeah I know the PMBR are having trouble with the IceClimbers I just figured once they got everything down that it would be a possibility eventually

Seeing as the only reason Pichu has any following is he was fun to play as in Melee it wouldn't really make sense to change him that drastically. The haters would be upset that he was in the game and his fans would be upset because he wouldn't play at all how we remembered.
 

l3thargy

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Seeing as the only reason Pichu has any following is he was fun to play as in Melee it wouldn't really make sense to change him that drastically. The haters would be upset that he was in the game and his fans would be upset because he wouldn't play at all how we remembered.
yeah but the only reason he was included in Melee in the first place was because of the movie, so wouldn't it make more sense to have both pichu's in the game then just the one,

beside how else could one justify pichu being able to match pikachu in terms of fighting potential, he's the baby version of a pikachu, to me that's like saying you as a 5 year old could beat up a 15 year old version of yourself , it makes no sense, besides why not just have the two pichu's play exactly how pichu did in melee same knockback,
animations, and everything I'd think they'd balance out with the rest of the cast
 

trojanpooh

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yeah but the only reason he was included in Melee in the first place was because of the movie, so wouldn't it make more sense to have both pichu's in the game then just the one,

beside how else could one justify pichu being able to match pikachu in terms of fighting potential, he's the baby version of a pikachu, to me that's like saying you as a 5 year old could beat up a 15 year old version of yourself , it makes no sense, besides why not just have the two pichu's play exactly how pichu did in melee same knockback,
animations, and everything I'd think they'd balance out with the rest of the cast

Because the Pichu from Melee isn't the exact same life form as the Pikachu in Melee. It's perfectly feasible that a 5 year old with a black belt could defeat a 15 year old with little to none fighting experience in a fight. The argument could be made that the Pichu in Project M is level 100 with perfect IVs/EVs where the Pikachu is level 90 with no EVs (or whatever makes them balanced, you get the idea).
 

arcticfox8

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yeah but the only reason he was included in Melee in the first place was because of the movie, so wouldn't it make more sense to have both pichu's in the game then just the one,

beside how else could one justify pichu being able to match pikachu in terms of fighting potential, he's the baby version of a pikachu, to me that's like saying you as a 5 year old could beat up a 15 year old version of yourself , it makes no sense, besides why not just have the two pichu's play exactly how pichu did in melee same knockback,
animations, and everything I'd think they'd balance out with the rest of the cast
explanation: Pichu is Lv.100 and EV trained
Pikachu is level 50 and was trained randomly.
And even if the two Pichus were clones of Melee Pichu, Melee Pichu wasn't built for a tag team setup.
 

Anti Guy

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I can't imagine why the Project M team wouldn't add Pichu. They've gone through a lot of effort to bring back Roy and Mewtwo. That added the best parts of Doc to Mario's moveset, and are even giving him a Dr Mario costume. Young Link is already in (as Toon Link). Pichu is the one last Melee fighter to make it to Brawl.

Not only would he be relatively easy to implement (as Pikachu clone, of course), but it'd be a fun challenge to bring Pichu up to the level of the rest of the fighters.

Why wouldn't they add PIchu? Plenty of reasons.

Keep this in mind. It'd take several hundred hours to add a new character. The time and effort must be justified. Both Roy and Mewtwo have had significant demand. Not only were their characters more popular, but their movesets, while weak in melee, just needed a few tweaks for improvement. As expected, they got a huge amount of hype in their trailers.

Now Pichu does not have the same kind of impact. He wasn't as popular. Sure, he will have his followers. They're speaking up here. Every character will. But they are not the majority, as we've proven here. Furthermore, his moveset was a joke. He wasn't intended to be good, as was mentioned a page or two ago, according to Sakurai. If Pichu were to be added, what kind of response would he get? Lukewarm. Sure, maybe around half of the players will be excited. But the other half won't. Will it be worth it? No.

Bottom line: Look at the bigger picture. Look at the cost-benefits. Just because you think a character would be cool doesn't mean that 1) most people playing will, and 2) it will justify the time spent to make him happen.

Edit: Also here's a little survey statistics.

With a total sample size of 106 votes, a total number of downloads being 78897 (we'll just leave it at that because for every "extra download" there are also people with friends playing), and 52.54% of voters supporting PIchu, that has a 95% confidence interval of 9.5.

That means the actual population supporting PIchu can be anywhere from 43% to 62%, with 95% confidence. Even with that upper limit, Pichu still fails to hit a 2/3 majority, and that's pretty underwhelming.
 

trojanpooh

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I'd be interested to see how many people would even want Roy back if the first character revealed was Mewtwo. Judging by this thread people are much more enthusiastic about non-clones so I can't imagine him having much of a following. Even back when the Clone Engine was just a theory people only wanted Roy because they assumed Mewtwo's articles would render him impossible. And last I checked you said Pichu had 52 or 53 percent following. That is technically a majority. As for his moveset being a joke, he wasn't that bad. Certainly on the same level as Bowser, Kirby, and Mewtwo in any case. How many times will people make the "intention" argument before they realize that Sakurai intended for Melee to be a party game with little to no depth. The entire point of Project M goes against Sakurai's intentions so they shouldn't be taken seriously.
 

AnOkayDM

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:laugh: Dude, people have wanted Roy back since they found out he wasn't in Brawl. He has quite a following and people really want him to return even for Smash 4. Of course he's not more popular than Mewtwo, but he definitely has a lot of fans who want him back.
 

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I'd be interested to see how many people would even want Roy back if the first character revealed was Mewtwo. Judging by this thread people are much more enthusiastic about non-clones so I can't imagine him having much of a following. Even back when the Clone Engine was just a theory people only wanted Roy because they assumed Mewtwo's articles would render him impossible. And last I checked you said Pichu had 52 or 53 percent following. That is technically a majority. As for his moveset being a joke, he wasn't that bad. Certainly on the same level as Bowser, Kirby, and Mewtwo in any case. How many times will people make the "intention" argument before they realize that Sakurai intended for Melee to be a party game with little to no depth. The entire point of Project M goes against Sakurai's intentions so they shouldn't be taken seriously.

It's technically a "majority," but it's still 1) a poor number and 2) is among the lowest end of the spectrum compared to all the rest of the candidates. 50% is hardly compelling as a motivation to put in hours of work for a character. You can't just look at the number as it is; it needs to be taken in context. If you say 5% of people may get a disease... that's okay. If you say 5% of people may die from a surgery, then that's probably NOT okay. Look beyond the number and see it in its context.
 

trojanpooh

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Well there'll always be a following for any character, but my point was that Roy was never nearly as popular as people make him out to be. That isn't to say they shouldn't have brought him back, they absolutely should have but that's what I was getting at. Pichu may not have the biggest following, but his following are people who used to play as him and can't now. In my book cut characters should always take precedent over theoretical newcomers. As bummed as you may be that X character doesn't make the roster, your disappointment will never never never be as big as that of someone who's favorite character is cut.
 

Anti Guy

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Well there'll always be a following for any character, but my point was that Roy was never nearly as popular as people make him out to be. That isn't to say they shouldn't have brought him back, they absolutely should have but that's what I was getting at. Pichu may not have the biggest following, but his following are people who used to play as him and can't now. In my book cut characters should always take precedent over theoretical newcomers. As bummed as you may be that X character doesn't make the roster, your disappointment will never never never be as big as that of someone who's favorite character is cut.

Do you have the data to support that about Roy? I don't know about everyone else, but if Roy had never been announced, but the clone engine had and we'd be arguing over 7 characters, then I think Roy would do pretty well. I would use one of my votes for him. But again, this is just opinion, I don't have anything concrete to back me up, and neither do you.

I don't think there was a very big reaction to Pichu getting cut when Brawl came (unlike Mewtwo, for example). Frankly, it seems that most people don't care. And regarding cut characters having priority, that's already been made moot with Dr. Mario and Young Link not making the cut for their various reasons (Yes, Dr. Mario has been incorporated into Mario, but they easiliy could have chosen not to and make Dr. Mario his own character). Besides, it's not your opinion on whether cut characters should make it back, it's the PMBR's. Sakurai himself has already given us his take on that.
 

trojanpooh

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It doesn't render anything moot, it just simply shows a decision that the PMBR made. Whether it was the right or wrong decision is an entirely different story.
 

Anti Guy

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It doesn't render anything moot, it just simply shows a decision that the PMBR made. Whether it was the right or wrong decision is an entirely different story.

You sound like you're underplaying the significance of that. "Simply a decision".. yeah, it's a decision, but it's a decision made by the ones who run this mod and make all the shots. That has a lot more weight than all of us here. And in that respect, right and wrong don't even matter. It's their call. That's why whatever character that is chosen or argued for should be done so with not only to what everyone here would like, but also what's "marketable" and appealing to the overlords of this whole project.
 

Chzrm3

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Why wouldn't they add PIchu? Plenty of reasons.

Keep this in mind. It'd take several hundred hours to add a new character. The time and effort must be justified. Both Roy and Mewtwo have had significant demand. Not only were their characters more popular, but their movesets, while weak in melee, just needed a few tweaks for improvement. As expected, they got a huge amount of hype in their trailers.

Well, Mewtwo took 700 hours, so we can safely say that any character that needs to be made from the ground up like that will take 700. In fact, for someone like Isaac, who would need a moveset made from scratch to do him justice, as well as specials the game has never had before, it may be several hundred more hours.

Roy took 300 hours, even though he was a clone, but he has a lot of new animations, too. Different tilts, aerials, smashes, and a totally revamped side-B.

Pichu wouldn't need new animations on anything. He wouldn't even really need to be thoroughly QA tested to make sure he's well balanced. The sense I'm getting from most Pichu fans in this thread is that they think it'd be really cool if he was a viable pick, but they'd rather have him come back as a derpy gimp than not have him come back at all.

So at that point, how tough is Pichu? You have to re-create the self damaging mechanic, which admittedly might be tough because there are only a few characters who have that on them (G&W's hammer hitting 1, for example, or Ike charging up his B). So if that's a specific property like crawling or wall-jumping that can't be given to other characters, then Pichu's probably impossible to bring back, and there's no reason for the PMBR to drive themselves crazy trying to code around that.

But if it's not, I really think Pichu is the easiest choice for the PMBR, of all these characters. He doesn't need any different moves, just tweaks to his physics and the additional of the self-damaging mechanic. If the PMBR wants to play with those variables until he's in a place where he's a decent pick, that'd be nice! But it's not really necessary in this case.

So I don't think the comparison should be "let's pit Pichu against Isaac/Dixie/Lyn/Ridleyetc, and see who's more popular." I think it's "for a much smaller time investment than a full-bodied character, we can get an extra one! On top of that, he's a character fans are already familiar with, and while controversial, he has his following."

I could see Isaac taking anywhere from 700 - 1000 hours, since Mewtwo's moveset was already mapped out, so at least the PMBR wasn't inventing stuff from scratch. (The added development time of making a move, then realizing it's not working on the character and needing to make a new move, would spike up the time on Isaac so much).

I could see Dixie, Lyn, and others like them taking 300 - 500 hours, depending on how different the PMBR wants to make them feel from their bases.

Pichu, without the need for new animations or the level of QA testing that the others have, might be ~100. The PMBR would still want a new model for him, because that's their style, so that's a pretty significant time investment. Outside of that, they're playing with his properties.

So is he as popular as Isaac? Nope! But just based on what we know about how long Mewtwo and Roy took, Pichu would take a fraction of the time that Isaac or Ridley would take. This makes him a nice compliment to them, since you could definitely see a "4.0" update adding Ridley, who took a tremendous amount of work and effort, and then Pichu, who the team was able to get done during Ridley's development with just a little bit of work.

The only time it becomes an issue is if the PMBR fills up every character slot, but that's a pretty daunting task. Asking them to fill the slots with characters who all require 300-700+ hours of work is intense.

Sorry, I wrote too much again. : >

tl;dr Pichu has a smaller following than most chars, but he's also just about the easiest character to make and he's certainly bringing something unique to the table.
 

trojanpooh

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I think you're not getting it. I'm not talking about what will be done or trying to predict anything, I'm talking about what should be done or should have been done. Yes, it's up to the PMBR and yes they're in charge but that doesn't mean they always do the right thing. It doesn't matter if they won't because I never once tried to predict the PMBR's moves like so many people on this thread have because it's completely pointless. We have no idea what they'll do and any prediction we can make will be 100% baseless no matter how hard we try to tell ourselves otherwise. Even heavily weighted characters like Isaac or Shadow (on each side of the spectrum) don't have decided fates. That's why I've personally abstained from the predictions of what will happen and chose to focus on what I think should be done.
 

AnOkayDM

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Roy is much, much more popular than Pichu will ever be, so you can hardly compare the two situations.

Either way, if Mewtwo had been announced and not Roy, I guarantee you Roy would be topping the request charts.
 

Chzrm3

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Either way, if Mewtwo had been announced and not Roy, I guarantee you Roy would be topping the request charts.

Yeah, I do agree with that. There's definitely a lot of love for Roy - I freaked out when PM announced him, and I never even really played him haha.
 

Anti Guy

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Well, Mewtwo took 700 hours, so we can safely say that any character that needs to be made from the ground up like that will take 700. In fact, for someone like Isaac, who would need a moveset made from scratch to do him justice, as well as specials the game has never had before, it may be several hundred more hours.

Roy took 300 hours, even though he was a clone, but he has a lot of new animations, too. Different tilts, aerials, smashes, and a totally revamped side-B.

Pichu wouldn't need new animations on anything. He wouldn't even really need to be thoroughly QA tested to make sure he's well balanced. The sense I'm getting from most Pichu fans in this thread is that they think it'd be really cool if he was a viable pick, but they'd rather have him come back as a derpy gimp than not have him come back at all.

So at that point, how tough is Pichu? You have to re-create the self damaging mechanic, which admittedly might be tough because there are only a few characters who have that on them (G&W's hammer hitting 1, for example, or Ike charging up his B). So if that's a specific property like crawling or wall-jumping that can't be given to other characters, then Pichu's probably impossible to bring back, and there's no reason for the PMBR to drive themselves crazy trying to code around that.

But if it's not, I really think Pichu is the easiest choice for the PMBR, of all these characters. He doesn't need any different moves, just tweaks to his physics and the additional of the self-damaging mechanic. If the PMBR wants to play with those variables until he's in a place where he's a decent pick, that'd be nice! But it's not really necessary in this case.

So I don't think the comparison should be "let's pit Pichu against Isaac/Dixie/Lyn/Ridleyetc, and see who's more popular." I think it's "for a much smaller time investment than a full-bodied character, we can get an extra one! On top of that, he's a character fans are already familiar with, and while controversial, he has his following."

I could see Isaac taking anywhere from 700 - 1000 hours, since Mewtwo's moveset was already mapped out, so at least the PMBR wasn't inventing stuff from scratch. (The added development time of making a move, then realizing it's not working on the character and needing to make a new move, would spike up the time on Isaac so much).

I could see Dixie, Lyn, and others like them taking 300 - 500 hours, depending on how different the PMBR wants to make them feel from their bases.

Pichu, without the need for new animations or the level of QA testing that the others have, might be ~100. The PMBR would still want a new model for him, because that's their style, so that's a pretty significant time investment. Outside of that, they're playing with his properties.

So is he as popular as Isaac? Nope! But just based on what we know about how long Mewtwo and Roy took, Pichu would take a fraction of the time that Isaac or Ridley would take. This makes him a nice compliment to them, since you could definitely see a "4.0" update adding Ridley, who took a tremendous amount of work and effort, and then Pichu, who the team was able to get done during Ridley's development with just a little bit of work.

The only time it becomes an issue is if the PMBR fills up every character slot, but that's a pretty daunting task. Asking them to fill the slots with characters who all require 300-700+ hours of work is intense.

Sorry, I wrote too much again. : >

tl;dr Pichu has a smaller following than most chars, but he's also just about the easiest character to make and he's certainly bringing something unique to the table.

You say Pichu would be easier than Roy because Roy has some new animations... but who's to say if they were to add Pichu, they wouldn't? I would think they would. They wouldn't just recreate Melee Pichu with all his old stats and call it a day. That's not what they did with anyone. They would revamp him too. If anything, Roy is the baseline. And in that respect, Pichu would take around the same amount of time as Roy. 300 hours.

One thing with the Pichu supports is that there happens to be a very single-minded approach to this. Pichu would be an EASY fit, and he should be in. YES, Pichu should be in. That's the bottom line there, for whatever reasons. But that is not the consideration here.

You don't go to an interview for a company you once worked at (and were laid off at too) who is looking for 5 positions, and say, "I am fit for this job." THAT MIGHT BE PERFECTLY TRUE. But if that's your argument, then you fail as a candidate. But this is the argument that Pichu supporters have been making all along. "He can have a moveset that works and be made better." I've seen that said over and over again.

Your argument should be this is why I am better than the other 20 or so applicants. And if you can succeed in that, then you win. As it stands now, Pichu's only "strength" is his past history in melee. And the time that takes is paltry in comparison to other clone candidates. For example, Lyn, if she's based off Ike, might take 400-500 hours. When you compare that to the 300 for Pichu, that's nothing. And I think the data here shows that compared to MANY of the candidates here, Pichu does not have a better candidacy, regardless of whether he might actually be a good fit, because there are better fits.
 

trojanpooh

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Same here, but that was mostly because it meant the clone engine was up and functional. I've got to say, I'm genuinely amazed at the lack of understanding on this thread. When the clone engine was first revealed I started pushing for every cut veteran coming back because I knew that other people missed them. I personally didn't care about the doc, Young Link, or Roy (though he'd been revealed) but I still wanted them to be back for the people who did care. Samus is one of my mains so as much as I love Project M I still can't quite get into it since she's missing. I've done my best to find new characters to enjoy, but there's still a Samus and Pichu shaped hole in my heart where those two belong. I know for a fact tons of people are or have been in the same boat as me so I'm truly baffled that all of those people aren't helping out.
 

Arteen

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The Project M team isn't beholden to the community and it certainly isn't beholden to this unofficial popularity poll. All that matters is what the Project M team wants.

We'll all have a good laugh when it turns out that everyone on the Project M team is a huge Shadow the Hedgehog fan.

Seriously though, what marks are there against Pichu? That only a 52% majority of the voters want him, rather than 67%?
 

Malion

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There are 3 Zelda timelines but only 2 Links... with the new LttP sequel coming out we should get some of that Link in the game to fill the hole left by Young Link... maybe? Just a glancing non-serious thought.
 

trojanpooh

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I was actually thinking awhile back that adding Ralph from Oracle of Ages would be a good way to bring back Young Link's moveset without saturating the game with Links. If only he had a trophy/sticker.
 

Malion

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But Link Between worlds can turn into a painting whenever he does a dodge. Lol.
 

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I don't know why people would want Young Link back, when Toon Link got basically all of his good qualities and more. He's much better than Young Link could hope to be.

The only way I'd want Young Link back is if he was from Majora's Mask and could transform into Deku, Goron, and Zora forms. But that would take up three slots (or four, if you included his human form), and that would be waaay too much.
 

Malion

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I don't know why people would want Young Link back, when Toon Link got basically all of his good qualities and more. He's much better than Young Link could hope to be.

The only way I'd want Young Link back is if he was from Majora's Mask and could transform into Deku, Goron, and Zora forms. But that would take up three slots (or four, if you included his human form), and that would be waaay too much.
I like Toon Link fine too but I also wouldn't mind more Links in general just for the hell of it... just like I'd like more Toon Characters in general.

(I'm also a strong supporter of putting toon link in a young link costume just sayin)
 

trojanpooh

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I don't know why people would want Young Link back, when Toon Link got basically all of his good qualities and more. He's much better than Young Link could hope to be.

The only way I'd want Young Link back is if he was from Majora's Mask and could transform into Deku, Goron, and Zora forms. But that would take up three slots (or four, if you included his human form), and that would be waaay too much.

I can't speak personally since I was never a Young Link main, but I've talked to tons of people who miss Young Link. I also know that Young Link is one of my least favorite characters in Melee and Link is one of my favorites. In Project M, on the other hand, Toon Link is my absolute number one favorite character of everyone so clearly they are different enough. The biggest issue, I think, is that all 3 of them are named Link.
 

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I like Toon Link fine too but I also wouldn't mind more Links in general just for the hell of it... just like I'd like more Toon Characters in general.
I think two Links is really enough, coming from a huge Zelda fan.

I would love Toon Zelda and/or Ganon though, for sure.
 

Malion

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I think two Links is really enough, coming from a huge Zelda fan.

I would love Toon Zelda and/or Ganon though, for sure.
You are probably correct. I think if they do anything it should be game inspired costumes... because there is no Zelda II Link in the game but his temple is there! Lol.
 

AnOkayDM

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I can't speak personally since I was never a Young Link main, but I've talked to tons of people who miss Young Link. I also know that Young Link is one of my least favorite characters in Melee and Link is one of my favorites. In Project M, on the other hand, Toon Link is my absolute number one favorite character of everyone so clearly they are different enough. The biggest issue, I think, is that all 3 of them are named Link.
I mained Young Link, and going back and playing Melee, I cannot stand him in comparison to P:M's Toon Link. *shrugs* I would have no qualms whatsoever if, say, Young Link got Toonie's current moveset and then Toon Link got revamped with Wind Waker items such as the Deku Leaf, but bringing Young Link back from Melee when he's already been incorporated into Toonie seems redundant to me.

You are probably correct. I think if they do anything it should be game inspired costumes... because there is no Zelda II Link in the game but his temple is there! Lol.


I play with this skin almost exclusively.

No, I'm not kidding.
 

trojanpooh

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I mained Young Link, and going back and playing Melee, I cannot stand him in comparison to P:M's Toon Link. *shrugs* I would have no qualms whatsoever if, say, Young Link got Toonie's current moveset and then Toon Link got revamped with Wind Waker items such as the Deku Leaf, but bringing Young Link back from Melee when he's already been incorporated into Toonie seems redundant to me.





I play with this skin almost exclusively.

No, I'm not kidding.

I think that would defeat the purpose of bringing Young Link back, though. Like I said, I never played him so I can't say from personal experience but none of my YL main friends like TL at all. To me he feels like he has more inspiration from Link 64 but cranked up to 11. It's appropriate that he plays like a caricature of Link, but I don't think he really plays all that much like YL at all. He may pull a few moves from him, but he's 95% his own beast.

Also that's the best costume ever.
 

AnOkayDM

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I think that would defeat the purpose of bringing Young Link back, though. Like I said, I never played him so I can't say from personal experience but none of my YL main friends like TL at all. To me he feels like he has more inspiration from Link 64 but cranked up to 11. It's appropriate that he plays like a caricature of Link, but I don't think he really plays all that much like YL at all. He may pull a few moves from him, but he's 95% his own beast.

Also that's the best costume ever.
I guess it's up to personal preference then. Maybe my tastes have just changed since I played Melee. But he is undoubtedly a better character than Melee's Young Link was. I s'pose it could be okay to bring him back and upgrade him to a proper level though.
 

trojanpooh

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Like I said, I'm no expert when it comes to Young Link. Just talking secondhand from what I've observed in my friends.
 

Chzrm3

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You say Pichu would be easier than Roy because Roy has some new animations... but who's to say if they were to add Pichu, they wouldn't? I would think they would. They wouldn't just recreate Melee Pichu with all his old stats and call it a day. That's not what they did with anyone. They would revamp him too. If anything, Roy is the baseline. And in that respect, Pichu would take around the same amount of time as Roy. 300 hours.

I dunno, I really don't think it's necessary. Roy getting new animations and mechanics was important, because it helps solidify the feeling that Roy is his own character. With Pichu, his "I hurt myself" mechanic and his tiny, speedy model already make him play so much differently. You might not need anything beyond that.

One thing with the Pichu supports is that there happens to be a very single-minded approach to this. Pichu would be an EASY fit, and he should be in. YES, Pichu should be in. That's the bottom line there, for whatever reasons. But that is not the consideration here.

You don't go to an interview for a company you once worked at (and were laid off at too) who is looking for 5 positions, and say, "I am fit for this job." THAT MIGHT BE PERFECTLY TRUE. But if that's your argument, then you fail as a candidate. But this is the argument that Pichu supporters have been making all along. "He can have a moveset that works and be made better." I've seen that said over and over again.

Your argument should be this is why I am better than the other 20 or so applicants. And if you can succeed in that, then you win. As it stands now, Pichu's only "strength" is his past history in melee. And the time that takes is paltry in comparison to other clone candidates. For example, Lyn, if she's based off Ike, might take 400-500 hours. When you compare that to the 300 for Pichu, that's nothing. And I think the data here shows that compared to MANY of the candidates here, Pichu does not have a better candidacy, regardless of whether he might actually be a good fit, because there are better fits.

Well, I'd written something about this a few pages back: http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...s-voting-results-updated-11-13.341479/page-44

I actually think there are a number of compelling reasons to add the character. Nostalgia is one factor, yes, but I feel that he offers much more than that.

I'm not saying you need to agree with those ideas just cause I wrote them though, haha. Those are just my thoughts. So if this is Pichu's job application, then all I'm saying is he has more on his resume then "I used to work here ten years ago!!!! OX"
 
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