New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[EdgeTheLucas]

I wanna discuss Isaac again.

I'm starting to think he could add something called "move availability" to Project M. "What the hell are you talkin' bout, boy?" you might be asking. Well, in Golden Sun, there are these things called Djinni that, when used, unleash an ability of a sort. Isaac can have up to 7 of these, but we'll stick with Venus Djinni since that's basically earth magic, and only use 3. When a Djinni is used, it becomes a point toward summoning: after 1 Djinni is used, a weak summon is available to be called upon, and after 2 are used a stronger summon can come out, and it goes on. Essentially, a different move is available depending on how many Djinni-centered moves you got to connect with the opponent.

I came up with this as a good way to make Isaac unique beyond "attacks with an Earth theme." Summons like Ramses and Cybele could materialize using down-B after using some attacks that use Djinni. Like, say Flint is part of Isaac's forward smash (since the effect is basically "regular attack is stronger") while Ground and Bane are 2 of his specials. Summon could be his down special, so if he's performed all 3 Djinni-centered attacks successfully (preferably on-hit to make it fair), then his summon could be Cybele. But let's say you don't want Cybele and want Ramses, which only requires 2 Djinni attacks, or wanna save Bane for later--just use one of your Djinni-centered attacks again to "set" it again (as in it no longer counts toward "summon points"), it doesn't have to be on-hit either.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how this could work using the clone engine, but it was a fun exercise I just made for myself here and now so it entertained me at least I'd be more than fine to have Isaac in the game even without the Djinni gimmick because earth mage w00t

I'm creative gaiz

Also to add, his Final Smash would obviously be Judgement, which is the strongest Venus summon for him and looks badass.

Wouldn't Isaac be just the COOLEST?

Like, temporary summons would be hard to do but damn it'd make Isaac, like, REALLY cool.

 

[leekslap]

I said I was sorry for that.

Though I seem to remember you calling me "stupid" and using "caveman logic" before I ever started talking to you.

All I know is, people don't like palette swaps, and SmashBoards is very heavily Metroid-biased. Nobody but SmashBoards and other heavily Metroid-based fan groups would appreciate her addition.

You answered before I edited. Sorry.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Really? Wanna show me something to back that up, or is it just an empty statement?

Look at the size of the Ridley for SSB4 thread, no pun intended.

I really did support Ridley, honest.

 

[Shin F.]

Look at the size of the Ridley for SSB4 thread, no pun intended.

Sorry, not good enough. A large thread doesn't mean there are a large number of people posting there. It could easily just mean the same people post there very frequently. You'll also note that Ridley detractors post there, too.

 

[leekslap]

Really? Wanna show me something to back that up, or is it just an empty statement? I don't see Metroid around here any more than any other series.

OMG and you were wrong too! Is this the first ever contradiction within a contradiction?

 

[leekslap]

Look at the size of the Ridley for SSB4 thread, no pun intended.

I really did support Ridley, honest.

Then how can you support Ridley and down vote Dark Samus even though they are from a game you clearly haven't played?!

 

[Saikyoshi]

I'd like to point out that I haven't said anything against the Metroid series.

The sole reason I downvoted Dark Samus is because of her near-identical aesthetics to Normal Samus, and I feel that's a valid reason.

 

[leekslap]

I'd like to point out that I haven't said anything against the Metroid series.

The sole reason I downvoted Dark Samus is because of her near-identical aesthetics to Normal Samus, and I feel that's a valid reason.

But looks don't matter. It's like saying Marth looks like Roy and Luigi looks like Mario. If it bothers you so much then we can simply mix the designs from MP2 and MP3. Not to mention, in a competitive game like project m, movesets matter infinetly more. If DLC will be an option like you believe, then Dark Samus is the only rep Metroid will be able to get and your ruining that. That's the same as saying something against Metroid. Can someone please count the amount of time this guy contradicted himself.

 

[Saikyoshi]

But looks don't matter. It's like saying Marth looks like Roy and Luigi looks like Mario. If it bothers you so much then we can simply mix the designs from MP2 and MP3. Not to mention, in a competitive game like project m, movesets matter infinetly more. If DLC will be an option like you believe, then Dark Samus is the only rep Metroid will be able to get and your ruining that. That's the same as saying something against Metroid. Can someone please count the amount of time this guy contradicted himself.

I think looks matter, and to a general audience they matter.

Remind me how not supporting a specific character that I feel has a valid reason to not be in is the same as insulting a franchise?

 

[leekslap]

I think looks matter, and to a general audience they matter.

Remind me how not supporting a specific character that I feel has a valid reason to not be in is the same as insulting a franchise?

Because Metroid fans are hungry for a COMPETITIVE newcomer. Ridley in Smash 4 might be good but the engine will notmbe the same. I mean in Smash, especially Project M. Also because Metroid Prime deserves respect after Other M took a dump ln it. This is competitive, remember? We all have our favorites but in the end we are bound to use a xharacter that fits us well even if it's from a franchise you don't play. Dude again, your opinions are the weirdest I've ever heard. How can you tell?

 

[Saikyoshi]

Anyway, I still value varied aesthetics, and because of that, my down vote still stands. I'm tired of being insulted just because I don't happen to like the same games as someone else.

 

[Shin F.]

I think looks matter, and to a general audience they matter.

Remind me how not supporting a specific character that I feel has a valid reason to not be in is the same as insulting a franchise?

You didn't insult the franchise, and I don't think I ever said that you did, but your reasoning that she looks too similar is weak, considering that Dark Pit is in Smash 4.

You say she would be badly received like he was, but all evidence seems to point the opposite way - Dark Samus is not Dark Pit. No other statistics aside from this thread's results exist to tell us how she would be received, so we have to examine what we have. What we have says she would be a popular choice. Dark Pit shows that it can work from an aesthetic perspective. This poll shows it can work from a fanservice perspective. You're free to down vote her, and I will count your vote, but to me, the reason you gave for doing so doesn't pan out.

Anyway, I still value varied aesthetics, and because of that, my down vote still stands. I'm tired of being insulted just because I don't happen to like the same games as someone else.

Just to be clear, I'm fairly sure I never directly insulted you - merely pointed out flaws in your reasoning. If I did insult you personally, then I apologize, because that was never an intention.

 

[Saikyoshi]

You didn't insult the franchise, and I don't think I ever said that you did, but your reasoning that she looks too similar is weak, considering that Dark Pit is in Smash 4.

You say she would be badly received like he was, but all evidence seems to point the opposite way - Dark Samus is not Dark Pit. No other statistics aside from this thread's results exist to tell us how she would be received, so we have to examine what we have. What we have says she would be a popular choice. Dark Pit shows that it can work from an aesthetic perspective. This poll shows it can work from a fanservice perspective. You're free to down vote her, and I will count your vote, but to me, the reason you gave for doing so doesn't pan out.

Just to be clear, I'm fairly sure I never directly insulted you - merely pointed out flaws in your reasoning. If I did insult you personally, then I apologize, because that was never an intention.

Thank you for respecting my opinion. And it wasn't you I was talking about.

 

[leekslap]

Anyway, I still value varied aesthetics, and because of that, my down vote still stands. I'm tired of being insulted just because I don't happen to like the same games as someone else.

*sigh* Seriously. They don't look the same. They don't have the same movesets! When will that come to your head?
On the other hand you are practiacally conceding to me by just hanging on to the weakest of reasons so I guess I won. No hard feelings right?

 

[leekslap]

Thank you for respecting my opinion. And it wasn't you I was talking about.

Hey I thought I said sorry! And I did respect your opinion afterwards! If you think I did not respect, then that's just how I am and it's something I'm trying to fix. Anything mean I say is all in good fun. Your arguments were just weaker than a baby, man. You got to excersise your brain or something. Wait a sec, we both joined around the same time and yet you are a smash lord? Do you get into these type of arguments alot?

 

[Saikyoshi]

Hey I thought I said sorry! And I did respect your opinion afterwards! If you think I did not respect, then that's just how I am and it's something I'm trying to fix. Anything mean I say is all in good fun. Your arguments were just weaker than a baby, man. You got to excersise your brain or something. Wait a sec, we both joined around the same time and yet you are a smash lord? Do you get into these type of arguments alot?

You're still being hostile and you have been reported some time ago. Sorry doesn't count if you keep doing it.

 

[TRJV]

Volke is the best Assassin, guys.

Wouldn't Isaac be just the COOLEST?

Like, temporary summons would be hard to do but damn it'd make Isaac, like, REALLY cool.

Thank you guys. For trying to stop it.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

So guys, katanas are the best weapons and samurais that can switch stances are the hypest **** since sliced bread. These are facts and it is also a fact that Takamaru's inclusion in the Project M environment would be the coolest thing to ever happen.

 

[AuraShaman]

Dark Pit is no more of a palette swap of Pit than Dark Samus is of Samus, but does that stop him from sticking out like a sore thumb? Does that stop the average player from hating him? Does that stop him from not being aesthetically different from his source?

HEY!


.....Stop hating my Pittooie. Them East guys were rooting for him, y'know? ;_;

People don't hate Dark Pit just because he's a dark Clone of Pit given his own slot. They hate that Kid Icarus has 3 reps while Metroid and DK still have just two. They hate him because he's a symbol of Sakurai's bias for Kid Icarus in this game. And Dark Pit is seen as a worthless addition because his moves for the most part don't even have different properties from Pit's.

This...thank you, @ Shin F.

While I still don't like the word "worthless" (because hardly any character inclusion is worthless in my eyes), I can agree with this opinion. While I feel very proud and lucky that one of my most wanted characters got his own slot, I should agree on one thing with everyone else; "Sakurai, if you're gonna show bias towards your own franchises, put more effort and creativity into them so that they are at least enjoyable!" If Dark Pit really is gonna be stuck with a Silver Bow, and not a more unique set of weapons, then he really is better off a glorified Pit skin. The effort would not be worth it.

And that's why I believe the Silver Bow is the bane of me, and everyone else who requested him ...

I don't understand all the complaining about Dark Pit. Seriously, he's almost exactly like Pit... on purpose, so that another character could be thrown into the game. Maybe that could be considered a lazy addition, but do people honestly think he stole the place of another "better" character just because he has a slot on the roster? How does the development time for "palette swap with slightly different properties" equate to "fleshed out non-clone character with an original moveset"?

You just said it right there; he was a lazy addition. I'm pretty sure people would've forgiven Sakurai if Dark Pit had a more unique moveset than he did. Unfortunately, he was a last-minute inclusion, meaning he had no time to program a unique moveset, and that gave everyone a reason to hate him.

 

[Rasgar]

You just said it right there; he was a lazy addition. I'm pretty sure people would've forgiven Sakurai if Dark Pit had a more unique moveset than he did. Unfortunately, he was a last-minute inclusion, meaning he had no time to program a unique moveset, and that gave everyone a reason to hate him.

Right, this is my point exactly. If anything, it's the KI fans who should be disappointed because Dark Pit is a bit of wasted potential. As a huge fan of KI:U, I'm trying not to speak with any sort of bias, but really, it's difficult to separate yourself from your passion for a game that you really enjoy. If people weren't biased towards series they liked, these arguments would never happen.

Pardon me if I'm missing out on some key information here, but I feel that everyone asserting that Sakurai only put in DP because of being in love with himself, and FOR NO OTHER POSSIBLE REASON, is a little ridiculous. It's not like any of us were there with the development team when they were putting the idea together. Think for a minute: if Sakurai were as obsessed with his own creations as you think, wouldn't he have put more effort into Dark Pit? Instead, the way I see it is that at some point, it was decided that there could be clones that were just minor tweaks, and DP was seen as an easy choice (like Dr. Mario, they didn't even need to get another voice actor for him). Really, there ought to be the same amount of complaining for Lucina and Dr. Mario.

Keep in mind that although DP tends to use different signature weapons, DP's abilities are literally exactly the same as Pit's, exemplifies by the points at which you can play as DP and use any of the weapons in the game. I would say this makes him a perfect candidate for a clone.

With all that aside, if someone else was a clone instead of him, who could it be that wouldn't lead to more complaining? If Dark Samus was a carbon copy of Samus instead of having her own abilities, you can bet people would cry foul. I imagine people would consider her ruined forever, given that Ganondorf has mostly been a CF clone ever since his introduction.

 

[Saikyoshi]

So guys, katanas are the best weapons and samurais that can switch stances are the hypest **** since sliced bread. These are facts and it is also a fact that Takamaru's inclusion in the Project M environment would be the coolest thing to ever happen.

I almost forgot –
+1 Takamaru

I was skeptical about him before because he was such a niche character, but now that his game's actually out in the US...

This is a new voting period, right? If it isn't and I'm over five votes... Never mind...

 

[Shadic]

@ Saikyoshi - Please stop crapping over this thread with your Dark Samus hate. We get it. (This is your warning.)

@ leekslap @ Shin F. and whoever else - This goes for your back-and-forth, as well.

plzkthx.

 

[Rags]

How about some more gun-type characters? Someone from Advance wars?

 

[Saikyoshi]

How about some more gun-type characters? Someone from Advance wars?

Andy and Sami are candidates in the OP. I already gave Andy my vote.

@ Saikyoshi - Please stop crapping over this thread with your Dark Samus hate. We get it. (This is your warning.)

@ leekslap @ Shin F. and whoever else - This goes for your back-and-forth, as well.

plzkthx.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean for it to turn into an argument. I just wanted to give my vote and then people replied, and I cannot shut up when I feel like I've been directly insulted. Sorry.

 

[GunBuster]

>these last two pages

jeeez-as.

well that just kind of happened, didn't it?

I mean, I didn't even participate in it...

 

[arcticfox8]

Dark Pit is fine as a clone
However it's been recently found that both Pits have identical A moves
Not like Fox and Falco either
Like literally the same. Look the same, hit the same, same.
Their only differences are in their neutral and side B moves
I'm not torn up over it
But it's not something I'm happy about either
So if you thought it was bad before, I'm really sorry if this is news to you.

 

[DingoPlatinum]

+ King K. Rool

 

[Legtendga]

Dark Pit is fine as a clone
However it's been recently found that both Pits have identical A moves
Not like Fox and Falco either
Like literally the same. Look the same, hit the same, same.
Their only differences are in their neutral and side B moves
I'm not torn up over it
But it's not something I'm happy about either
So if you thought it was bad before, I'm really sorry if this is news to you.

If that's true, then Christ on a biscit, I am livid. If that is indeed the only difference, then it would've been much, much better to have added no one there than to devalue the worth of a roster slot in Super Smash Bros.
My head is spinning from this whole thing with Mr. Saik up back there, and I want to point out to him at least some of the massive holes in his arguments so he can fill them next time, but we seemed to have moved on, and I really don't want to derail the tread again...
...so, how in the world is Dixie so low in the voting, y'all?! She'd be the among the easist to implement and she was/is probably the single most deserving (Ridalin not withstanding) of a Smash For slot that we had/have (Most deserving meaning in this case being third in the pecking order from an under rep-ed series, and having an easier to implement moveset thank K. Rool for our purposes). I can only think that folks, assuming that she'd be in the final version out of sheer common sense, didn't vote for her. :/

 

[ElPanandero]

If that's true, then Christ on a biscit, I am livid. If that is indeed the only difference, then it would've been much, much better to have added no one there than to devalue the worth of a roster slot in Super Smash Bros.
My head is spinning from this whole thing with Mr. Saik up back there, and I want to point out to him at least some of the massive holes in his arguments so he can fill them next time, but we seemed to have moved on, and I really don't want to derail the tread again...
...so, how in the world is Dixie so low in the voting, y'all?! She'd be the among the easist to implement and she was/is probably the single most deserving of a Smash For slot that we had/have (Ridalin not withstanding). I can only thing that it was folks assuming that she'd be in the final version out of sheer common sense.

They say her ponytail is tough to program, so if they wanna make her genuine that presents a unique challenge.

.5 to Dixie doe, she deserves it

 

[Sour Supreme]

They say her ponytail is tough to program, so if they wanna make her genuine that presents a unique challenge.

.5 to Dixie doe, she deserves it

Whose they?

I've yet to hear someone say specifically that Dixie's ponytail is hard to program.

 

[arcticfox8]

Whose they?

I've yet to hear someone say specifically that Dixie's ponytail is hard to program.

Well they claimed to have problems with Mewtwo's tail anyway
bones and ****
I'd assume it'd be just as hard if not moreso for her ponytail

 

[ElPanandero]

Whose they?

I've yet to hear someone say specifically that Dixie's ponytail is hard to program.

I dunno, I remmeber maybe a month ago someone in the thread said something along the lines of 'Dixie is not as easy as everyone think to program due to her ponytail, that creates some problems' or something like that, I could be wrong but I distinctly rememeber

 

[JCOnyx]

Whose they?

I've yet to hear someone say specifically that Dixie's ponytail is hard to program.

You underestimate the difficulty of a huge prehensile ponytail. It would need to be hand animated on every animation - the characters in the higher tiers do have animation donors they could use to get rid of the multitude of inane animations required to become real. Even Lip and Goroh.

 

[Exodo]

people seriously argued for 2 pages about dark samus??
Dark Samus is awesome and can be done really uniquely from Samus.

in another note, i just found llama juice(a PMDT) stage from Golden Sun, the Venus Light House(pretty awesome btw, downloading it right now).
This can only mean one thing....

Isaac Confirmed for 3.5!!! and this stage along with him!!!! right?

....one can only dream
but seriously if this happens i would die of happiness and hypeness and orgasmness... k getting kinda weird, gonna go test the stage now!!

 

[Friesnchip]

people seriously argued for 2 pages about dark samus??
Dark Samus is awesome and can be done really uniquely from Samus.

in another note, i just found llama juice(a PMDT) stage from Golden Sun, the Venus Light House(pretty awesome btw, downloading it right now).
This can only mean one thing....

Isaac Confirmed for 3.5!!! and this stage along with him!!!! right?

....one can only dream
but seriously if this happens i would die of happiness and hypeness and orgasmness... k getting kinda weird, gonna go test the stage now!!

His application to the PMDT was accepted after releasing that stage to the public, not prior. There is no correlation between his thread and Isaac's possible clone engine candidacy. Not to mention, a new character being released for demo 3.5 is highly unlikely.

 

[GunBuster]

people seriously argued for 2 pages about dark samus??
Dark Samus is awesome and can be done really uniquely from Samus.

Spoiler

more like "one guy has a vendetta against the idea of Dark Samus, compares 'it' to Dark Pit and upsets everyone to a large degree"

local man ruins everything.jpg

 

[Sour Supreme]

Mod tells thread to stop arguing.

Thread proceeds to bring up that the argument happened several times.

 

[Deleted member]

+1 vote:
- Dark Samus -- would be an awesome clone, and technically Ridley's already in the game
- Dixie -- she is the other very iconic DK character, and I think she would be great
- Tails -- Mario has Luigi, I think Sonic deserves to have Tails. His Up B would be different at least
- Pokemon Trainer -- I love the idea of him throwing Pokeballs.
- Malon/Cremia -- Not a popular choice, but I think she would be a cool clone mix. Mostly based off of the model of Peach (there's a mod of this already). Instead of Toad she uses a Cucco to counter (don't hit a Cucco), but this is her Side B. Her Up B would also involve gliding while holding a Cucco, like Snake's Up B. Her Netural B is firing an arrow from a bow just like Link. And her Down B is Sing, like Jigglypuff but could have a different effect.

+1/2 vote:
- Bowser Jr.
- Toad
- Skull Kid
- Tetra
- Krystal
- Black Shadow/Ganondorf

 

[Exodo]

His application to the PMDT was accepted after releasing that stage to the public, not prior. There is no correlation between his thread and Isaac's possible clone engine candidacy. Not to mention, a new character being released for demo 3.5 is highly unlikely.

wow, what a way to kill hype, and my dreams T.T!!!

 

[ElPanandero]

+1 vote:
- Dark Samus -- would be an awesome clone, and technically Ridley's already in the game
- Dixie -- she is the other very iconic DK character, and I think she would be great
- Tails -- Mario has Luigi, I think Sonic deserves to have Tails. His Up B would be different at least
- Pokemon Trainer -- I love the idea of him throwing Pokeballs.
- Malon/Cremia -- Not a popular choice, but I think she would be a cool clone mix. Mostly based off of the model of Peach (there's a mod of this already). Instead of Toad she uses a Cucco to counter (don't hit a Cucco), but this is her Side B. Her Up B would also involve gliding while holding a Cucco, like Snake's Up B. Her Netural B is firing an arrow from a bow just like Link. And her Down B is Sing, like Jigglypuff but could have a different effect.

+1/2 vote:
- Bowser Jr.
- Toad
- Skull Kid
- Tetra
- Krystal
- Black Shadow/Ganondorf

Malon sounds dope.

I'll toss a .5 her way

I love how these half votes work