New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[ArashiNoKishi]

Came again to give my last upvote and some half votes:
+1 Sami: bringing back snake's former playstyle
+.5:
Takamaru (katanas are awesome)
Dixie (DKC2 is the best DKC and why not have both protagonist of it)
Tetra (only if there is a skin of the awesome beta design in Hyrule Storia)

Also I got a question if the argument "there are enough characters from that franchise" while upvoting something from mario universe is valid for a downvote (looking at all the people downvoting Lyn because there are "enough" FE representation in PM)

Edit:
image of the design I'm talking about

Spoiler

The blonde on the left :v

 

[marlinswine]

i hadn't seen the updated results, happily surprised to see how high masked man is, i figured everyone had forgotten about him.
can anyone tell me whether lance (pkmn champion) is in the game in any form? i know he's a fairly silly suggestion compared to lots of other characters but for some reason i've wanted him in it smash since melee, riding dragonites and summoning gyarados's for hyper beam madness.
wistful dragon trainer dreams.

 

[GunBuster]

Also I got a question if the argument "there are enough characters from that franchise" while upvoting something from mario universe is valid for a downvote (looking at all the people downvoting Lyn because there are "enough" FE representation in PM)

this has always bugged me...
"1+ to (mario character), young link and pichu, -1 to lyn/hector because too many characters from fire emblem" - the hypocrisy is scathing.

Now for Young Link. If you go to PM's website and read Toon Link's bio it clearly states Young Link and Link 64 was put into PM's Toon Link. Young Link's Fire arrows and Flame Spike Dair are in Young Link already. So why do we need a THIRD Link that ISN'T A WOLF WITH ANY IMP ON HIS BACK!? Young Link is already there in Toon Link. As a HUGE LoZ fan even I can agree with have 3 versions of one character, especially if all 3 are human. I wold love Mikaiu Link, or Dorami Link, or Deku Scrub Link, and would especially LOVE Wolf Link but they are stretches. Adding Young Link? No. He would require such an over haul to keep him and Adult Link viable you would have to ask if it really worth the effort especially since he is incorporated into Toon Link. Than there is the work involved in separating Toon Link from Young Link if Young Link was in PM. So that is 3 characters they would have to re work in order to create viability between the three so no one is objectively better than the other and they all feel different in there own right.

THIS.
also i like your avatar.

 

[KMAL]

+1 Lyn
+1 Issac
+1 Pichu
+1 Shadow
+1 Paper Mario

 

[Anti Guy]

I never understood the 3 of a character argument, if they play differently who cares? Young Link could be made unique so I don't see the problem to the point of down voting. You're entitled to your opinion so it doesn't really matter, but you make the argument for Wolf Link, when he's link too. By that Logic we should have Dark Samus since it'd be 3 samus.

Hey Rule guys, Can I use that a legitimate vote against Dark Samus if he can use that for anti young link

It's not the same. Link and Tink (and Young Link) are all clones of each other, AND essentially the same character.

Samus and Zamus are the same character, but completely different movesets. Dark Samus is a different character that would look like and play like Samus (hence, "clone")... but unlike Young Link, would not be the third iteration, with regards to character OR movesets.

 

[JCOnyx]

Also I got a question if the argument "there are enough characters from that franchise" while upvoting something from mario universe is valid for a downvote (looking at all the people downvoting Lyn because there are "enough" FE representation in PM)

I think most of the people only using that as a reason to downvote the FE reps obviously don't understand how large the series is. It may just be starting to catch on here in the states, but a series with 14 titles (2 of which are remakes though) dating back to 1990 isn't anything to scoff at.

But a lot of them are actually voting her down because she would be yet another sword wielding FE rep, making all 4 characters under that series use the "same" weapon. I personally don't agree with this notion since a katana is wielded and used in a completely different way then long swords or rapiers, and as such she would most likely feel and play incomparably to the other 3 FE reps.

Although, I also agree that it would be much more interesting to see a different class among the FE series be introduced (Mage, Soldier, Fighter, Archer, etc).

A good point to bring up though is that FE has already taken one of the seven clone engine slots with the reintroduction of Roy. Having 2 characters from the same series take up spots might seem a little biased to some, and could very well be reason enough to downvote another FE rep.

 

[ElPanandero]

It's not the same. Link and Tink (and Young Link) are all clones of each other, AND essentially the same character.

Samus and Zamus are the same character, but completely different movesets. Dark Samus is a different character that would look like and play like Samus (hence, "clone")... but unlike Young Link, would not be the third iteration, with regards to character OR movesets.

So I can't downvote Dark Samus as clone of samus but we can downvote Young Link despite the fact that you can make him unique (which would make two clones and a semi, just like Metroid)?

Well, I'm not gonna argue, this isn't my place, but I think that's sillyness

 

[ArashiNoKishi]

A good point to bring up though is that FE has already taken one of the seven clone engine slots with the reintroduction of Roy. Having 2 characters from the same series take up spots might seem a little biased to some, and could very well be reason enough to downvote another FE rep.

Ofc I know many of the Downvotes that any FE character has is because they don't know how large the series is, the fact it's one of the oldest franchises of Nintendo it's only overshadowed beacuse it began selling in the west in it's 7th instalment ('cause of meelee) that curiosly has the lovely maiden called Lyndis to teach you play the game.

Aside from that this is a popularity contest so it really doesn't matter if one of the winners is from a series that also won a previous contest, it's like saying that Germany can't participate on the next world cup because it won the last one (just a lame analogy, and also not implying that the world cup is a popularity contest)

 

[leekslap]

Yes OK I said that wouldn't come back but here I am. Couldn't help myself. Just gonna downvote a couple of charmacters since biggle boom ate my sandwich on a walrus morning.

- Pokemon Trainer - WTF is he so popular? People already complain that Pokemon is overrepresented and yet they vote for this guy? What? I know, oh Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Punt never fights and Sakurai trolled us by adding her/him, but Monsier Ash Ketchum just watches the fight and tells the poor animals what to do. He doesn't come into the fight randomly to help his pokemon, unless he's done it but I haven't seen the anime so . I just think that he's a waste of a vote and there are more deserving charmanders to get a spot. Like Trevenant or something.

Toad- At best, he would be a semi clone of a character that already has a semi clone. He's a tertiary character that was only made playable so 4 players could play. I don't think that much could be done with his moveset anyway.

Hector- Axes actually are the same as sword if you really think about and so are spears, lances, etc. It's really more of a playstyle thing and whatever unique moves they could have could be implemented into other characters with a really unique tech or special move or system. He's kinda secondary and Lyn and Issac are more deserving. Anyone who I catch saying axes are unique will get banned from my butt.

Takamaru- Why do people want him? Again, this is not Smash 4 and people only brought him cause of his chances. I don't see him being as unique as Issac or Lyn and the reception would probably be who is Takamaru and why didn't >insert character name < get in instead?

 

[Anti Guy]

So I can't downvote Dark Samus as clone of samus but we can downvote Young Link despite the fact that you can make him unique (which would make two clones and a semi, just like Metroid)?

Well, I'm not gonna argue, this isn't my place, but I think that's sillyness

You were asking to use the same logic, and i was saying that logically, it's not that same logic. Also, why would you make Young Link unique? The whole point of even including him would be to bring back his melee form. Otherwise, there's really no need to bring him back, as he has little value outside of that.

 

[ElPanandero]

You were asking to use the same logic, and i was saying that logically, it's not that same logic. Also, why would you make Young Link unique? The whole point of even including him would be to bring back his melee form. Otherwise, there's really no need to bring him back, as he has little value outside of that.

I guess so, and there's no chance of ganon/bshadowing toon link into a unique character?

I would argue the value point, but I'm probably biased.

I just want to be able to downvote Dsamus

 

[PlateProp]

I guess so, and there's no chance of ganon/bshadowing toon link into a unique character?

I would argue the value point, but I'm probably biased.

I just want to be able to downvote Dsamus

Then downvote dark samus. You can do that.

 

[ElPanandero]

Then downvote dark samus. You can do that.

Wasn't there a three page argument on "3 samuses" not being a good enough reason to downvote?

 

[leekslap]

I just want to be able to downvote Dsamus

Not trying to start something here but didn't we just have a page long argument about Dark Samus? :/ Don't start it all over again cause I don't want to.EDIT: LOL i guess its a mutual feeling. I was actually wondering why Saikyoshi didn't bring up the 3 samus thing.

 

[PlateProp]

Wasn't there a three page argument on "3 samuses" not being a good enough reason to downvote?

That doesnt mean you cant find another reason.

-1 Dark Samus, because I feel like she would be an unneeded addition to the game, and would much rather an unrepresented series get the slot instead.

Why hasn't anyone actually proposed a Metroid for clone engine yet though? That would be interesting.

 

[Marakatu]

Takamaru- Why do people want him? Again, this is not Smash 4 and people only brought him cause of his chances. I don't see him being as unique as Issac or Lyn and the reception would probably be who is Takamaru and why didn't >insert character name < get in instead?

If I explained why do people want him, would you remove your "why do people want him" downvote?

 

[ElPanandero]

-1 Dark Samus, because I feel like she would be an unneeded addition to the game, and would much rather an unrepresented series get the slot instead.

-1 to Dark Samus for this reason

 

[RomeDogg]

Since Young Link and Pichu are Melee vets I really think PM should Create balanced versions of them for PM even if its after all the clone slots are used. That way players can decide weather to include them in their roster or not by swapping out a character made through the clone engine by PM. To me thats the only real way to make it fair since they are so "controversial."

 

[leekslap]

If I explained why do people want him, would you remove your "why do people want him" downvote?

Well if you had just explained, you wouldn't have to ask. I don't know crap about ***** Takanuva so there's a chance you could convince me. Did anyone get that Bionicle reference?

-1 Dark Samus, because I feel like she would be an unneeded addition to the game, and would much rather an unrepresented series get the slot instead.

-1 to Dark Samus for this reason

No. I must resist! NOOOOOOOO! It's... TOO strong... Metroid is an underrepresented franchise so Dark Samus is needed.

What... What have I done? What am I? What's happening to me?

 

[Mushguy]

Oh, I forgot to give my upvotes on my previous post:
+1 OoT Impa (based on Sheik)
+1 Toon Zelda (similar to the older Zelda, but with inspiration from Spirit Tracks)
+1 Dixie Kong
+1 K. Rool
+1 Paper Mario

 

[JCOnyx]

Alright Cpt. most of your votes are decent enough to be properly counted. There is still at least one I have an issue with.

Samurai Goroh: Black Shadow would be a better rep since his moveset is already in the game as Ganondorf and adding in Black Shadow would improve Ganondorf as well.

This entire downvote literally says nothing about Goroh and how he'd be inferior to Black Shadow, just how you think Black Shadow would be a better choice. Are you trying to say that it would take too much effort to create Goroh and wouldn't be worth it? If so please don't try to take a characters workload into consideration when voting, since this is completely up to the PMDT if they are willing to put in that much work anyways. It's also been stated by cmart that Goroh's workload could be lessened due to having some possible animation donors that he could borrow from.

Please keep in mind that downvotes are intended for people to use when a characters inclusion would lessen their enjoyment of the game. Dev time shouldn't be a part of the equation.

If I'm misunderstanding you and you are trying to downvote Goroh for a different reason I'd be happy if we could clear up this confusion.

 

[kazan]

-1 Dark Samus, because I feel like she would be an unneeded addition to the game, and would much rather an unrepresented series get the slot instead.

-1 to Dark Samus for this reason

-1 Dark Samus for the same reason, plus, why would someone want another clone character? Wouldn't you rather want a character with different moves to represent the series?
Wouldn't you rather want...

Spoiler

jkjk

 

[| Kailex |]

I actually want anthony higs

 

[h y o]

some people have recently been down-voting this particular character that i didn't really notice, up until now.
-1 dark samus
i have to agree with them, it seems unreasonable to add a character that would play similary to an existing character. (i know, i know, there are some clone characters like roy for example, but adding another just seems like too much in my honest opinion.)
plus, like others have mentioned, dark samus doesn't seem like the character that would do the metroid series much justice.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

some people have recently been down-voting this particular character that i didn't really notice, up until now.
-1 dark samus
i have to agree with them, it seems unreasonable to add a character that would play similary to an existing character. (i know, i know, there are some clone characters like roy for example, but adding another just seems like too much in my honest opinion.)
plus, like others have mentioned, dark samus doesn't seem like the character that would do the metroid series much justice.

Clones are easier for the PMDT and people would be fine with Dark Samus being the next Metroid character. Not everyone is averse to clones.

 

[JCOnyx]

I'm extremely confused at how Dark Samus wouldn't do the series justice when she is the main villain of Metroid Prime 2 and 3. How does she not represent the series?

She also could be extremely different from Samus, even with just minor alterations to her moveset. Roy, Wolf, and Luigi are prefect examples that clones can be radically different from one another and I would put money down that Damus would be even more unique than those three compared to their bases.

 

[kazan]

alright guys, let's stop the arguments before it gets too out of hand, and off topic. There's no need to argue against someone's downvote. I doubt it'll change their opinions.
Everyone, try to be positive and respectful! ^__^

 

[JCOnyx]

If you aren't aware Kazan, Shin F., Friesnchip, Solbliminal, and myself are the vote counters for the thread. We are the ones who are supposed to dispute downvotes if they are being used incorrectly. Others do like to step in when their favorite picks are being targeted for downvotes or if they feel they aren't being used in the proper manner as well, and sometimes that works out well and sometimes not. It isn't against the rules and sometimes sparks informative discussion though so we don't try to stop those individuals.

The 4 of us though have been a bit more lenient when it comes to counting votes as of late though, especially when we can tell someone is having difficulty conveying their reasonings (Some of the voters probably just have really bad english... at least I hope that's the case). There have been occasions where discussions with voters about their downvotes have gotten heated, but I assure you we try to remain neutral when approaching others with unacceptable downvotes.

 

[GunBuster]

>aaaaaall this Dark Samus bashing

Dark Samus - a phazon construct that took on Samus's appearance after combining what was left of the Metroid Prime, Samus's Phazon suit and DNA. uses phazon missiles and a phazon beam weapon, but the similarities between the two end there.

not only is she practically the Metroid Prime reborn (making her the main antagonist of all 3 Prime games), She's more of a "thing" really - it's faster, ruthless, shows little to no humanity outside of maniacal laughter, not to mention it's "suit" is more of a completely biological exoskeleton. it and Samus are not as simple as Dark Pit is to Pit and would give something very different to work with when considering her/it as a clone character. I feel that one way to do it justice would be to make it's animations range from both straight from Samus to changes that are as different as Wolfs are from Fox's, but really... outlandish and "creature-ey". the ice beam attacks Samus has could be something to work from.

And the "3 Samus' are just as bad as 3 Links" thing is a pretty weak argument when the 2 Samus' we have are completely different from each other, the 3rd wouldn't even technically be Samus, and we have 5 Zelda characters already compared to Metroid's 2...

 

[AuraShaman]

Y IS EVERYONE HATIN' SAMTOO?! Stahp, she's an alien. The guy above me literally said the only thing they have in common are DNA, beams, and missiles.... Oh, and she's probably sexy under the helmet, too; plus no Zero Suit Dark Samus Final Smash thingimaderp.

Well if you had just explained, you wouldn't have to ask. I don't know crap about ***** Takanuva so there's a chance you could convince me.

Spoiler

I don't know crap about ***** Takanuva so there's a chance you could convince me.

***** Takanuva

Takanuva

Had to do it right when they were coming back, did you?

 

[Cpt.]

Alright Cpt. most of your votes are decent enough to be properly counted. There is still at least one I have an issue with.

This entire downvote literally says nothing about Goroh and how he'd be inferior to Black Shadow, just how you think Black Shadow would be a better choice. Are you trying to say that it would take too much effort to create Goroh and wouldn't be worth it? If so please don't try to take a characters workload into consideration when voting, since this is completely up to the PMDT if they are willing to put in that much work anyways. It's also been stated by cmart that Goroh's workload could be lessened due to having some possible animation donors that he could borrow from.

Please keep in mind that downvotes are intended for people to use when a characters inclusion would lessen their enjoyment of the game. Dev time shouldn't be a part of the equation.

If I'm misunderstanding you and you are trying to downvote Goroh for a different reason I'd be happy if we could clear up this confusion.

All I can really add is that Goroh is only a rival where Black Shadows is a villaiin, but hey rivals have gotten in before villains in Smash before. I don't know enough about F-Zero to argue more. If you don't think that is enough then that's fine don't count it.

some people have recently been down-voting this particular character that i didn't really notice, up until now.
-1 dark samus
i have to agree with them, it seems unreasonable to add a character that would play similary to an existing character. (i know, i know, there are some clone characters like roy for example, but adding another just seems like too much in my honest opinion.)
plus, like others have mentioned, dark samus doesn't seem like the character that would do the metroid series much justice.

-1 Dark Samus for the same reason, plus, why would someone want another clone character? Wouldn't you rather want a character with different moves to represent the series?
Wouldn't you rather want...

Spoiler

jkjk

-1 Dark Samus, because I feel like she would be an unneeded addition to the game, and would much rather an unrepresented series get the slot instead.

-1 to Dark Samus for this reason

Man I'm getting a lot of sh*t for my decent reasons on character choices (which is fair enough because my reasons are only decent for the most part), but really? This?

You don't want Dark Samus in because she is a clone? Have you even played Metroid Corruption?

Plus half of the characters on this thread that we could add can be added because they are "clone like" - Dixie, Shadow, Ninten, Claus, Toad, Black Shadow, Krystal, Lyn, Knuckles, Tails, and probably more that I'm forgetting

From all of those Damus is one of the least clone like..... -_-

Damus - Creates clones, levitates, uses Phazon beams/missiles, creates giant Phazon spikes

Samus - No cloning, has screw attack, uses normal beams/missiles, has power bombs???

It's hard to compare the two when you actually see them fight.

 

[Anti Guy]

Regarding clones and downvotes... I REALLY don't think clones should be a legit reason for a downvote. I've made my case clear over and over again and how much more feasible clones are in the whole process, and if anything, the ability to be a straight clone off another character is a huge plus, NOT a con. However, it's still an opinion that has reasoning behind it. I just feel that reasoning goes against much of the premise of this whole thread and is really a vote against all clones, rather than that character. I'm not sure where the other vote counters want to stand on this issue.

 

[GunBuster]

Plus half of the characters on this thread that we could add can be added because they are "clone like" - Dixie, Shadow, Ninten, Claus, Toad, Black Shadow, Krystal, Lyn, Knuckles, Tails, and probably more that I'm forgetting

From all of those Damus is one of the least clone like..... -_-

>lyn
>clone like

c'mon, it's been discussed to death. there's an overwhelming amount of support for a unique moveset for her.

i shall proceed to read manlyspirit's post with that lyn moveset and remember... simpler times.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Honestly, if you are down voting Dark Samus because you think "it" would be a exact copy of armored Samus you have never played Metriod Prime 2 or Metriod Prime 3.

Clones aren't bad. Copy and past clones are bad. Examples of GOOD clones are Lucas and Wolf. Yeah, they have the same specials as Ness and Fox but they have NUMEROUS smash attacks that are different. In PM, Lucas only shares 2 to 3 specials with Ness depending on how you feel about PK freeze and PK Fire.

Bad copy past clones are Melee Doc and Young Link. All there specials are the same as Mario and Link. All their smashes are the same. All their arials look the same. Tilts look the same, jabs look the same.

You could argue bring back Young Link but that would require both Link and Toon Link to get a major overhaul to Young Link isn't a bad copy paste clone of either of them. The alternative is to over haul Young Link but what's the point of that because then he wouldn't be the Melee vet you love.

In Dark Samus' case, it could share all the specials Samus has but have different Smash attacks, arials and physics like Wolf does compared to Fox. There is plenty you could do to alter Dark Samus and make it a good clone of Samus, especially if they reference Prime 2 and 3 when it came to smashes and specials.

Sides, there are some PSAs of Dark Samus showing how different they could be.

 

[ElPanandero]

So does the down vote count, or not? Still confused

 

[kazan]

If you aren't aware Kazan, Shin F., Friesnchip, Solbliminal, and myself are the vote counters for the thread. We are the ones who are supposed to dispute downvotes if they are being used incorrectly. Others do like to step in when their favorite picks are being targeted for downvotes or if they feel they aren't being used in the proper manner as well, and sometimes that works out well and sometimes not. It isn't against the rules and sometimes sparks informative discussion though so we don't try to stop those individuals.

The 4 of us though have been a bit more lenient when it comes to counting votes as of late though, especially when we can tell someone is having difficulty conveying their reasonings (Some of the voters probably just have really bad english... at least I hope that's the case). There have been occasions where discussions with voters about their downvotes have gotten heated, but I assure you we try to remain neutral when approaching others with unacceptable downvotes.

ah, i see. sorry about that! I'm quite the noob on smashboards hehehe ^__^;

Seeing all these replies recently made me realize that clones arent bad! Take Roy and Mewtwo for example.

Spoiler

oh geez. ive contradicted myself ^^;

 

[Cpt.]

>lyn
>clone like

c'mon, it's been discussed to death. there's an overwhelming amount of support for a unique moveset for her.

i shall proceed to read manlyspirit's post with that lyn moveset and remember... simpler times.

Clone like isn't the same as clone. Especially when I'm saying Damus is "clone like".

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Hey is there anywhere I can see overall rankings for all the voted characters?

 

[h y o]

Clones are easier for the PMDT and people would be fine with Dark Samus being the next Metroid character. Not everyone is averse to clones.

ah, im sorry. i totally understand your reasoning, i was only meaning to state my opinion. hope you can understand ;v;

 

[Raijinken]

I've been off this thread for a while, but isn't Bowser Jr out of consideration now that he's in Smash4?