New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Shin F.]

The problem with a lot of your last post is that you're assuming a LOT about what he might end up being like.

Like I stated, it's mostly a proportional issue. Yeah, custom characters can take quite a long time as previously stated, but the character, historically, and in more modern games (take brawl for instance) he is an EXTREMELY large, yet slender character with a head that in some instances may or may not fit his body in certain circumstances. if Ridley were to appear in a relaxed standing state on the ground, he would look like a giant perched pseudo-pterodactyl like creature that wouldn't look like it would have very clean animations. Also, while his width wouldn't be a problem, his height would match or exceed Giga Bowser.(See Super Metroid Ridley).

However, if you look at more modern installments, such as Ridley from Other M, or even from Metroid Prime: Corruption, his proportions are more correct, and he's seen on the ground on all 4's. That would look much more natural, but the amount of space he would take up on stage width-wise would probably match or even exceed the current width of Giga Bowser. Animations could be much more correct in this instance, but he would be laughably large on stage.

Yeah, he could match or exceed Giga Bowser in size. You're right. Then again, he might be more like his Melee opening appearance, which isn't much larger than normal Bowser and looks perfectly fine in relation to Samus. Or he might get a new, original design that works better than his canon appearances. Or he might appear as the Little Birdie form from Other M.

Then comes the air game. He would probably look his best here, but if you refer to Ridley or Meta Ridley in game, it'd be the equivalent of you fighting a boss character that's already included, non-playable. This could heavily tip the favor of most matches in Ridley's favor if using a similar moveset to the boss currently included (The only difference is, a person is doing it this time). Heavily disjointed tail with an incredible reach, cumbersome projectiles that have rather hard kockback, and a sonic speed fly-attack, while dealing no damage, can ruin a player's positioning in less than a second. Or on the other side, it could make Ridley an extremely predictable character and probably wouldn't be worth maining if he didn't have more than that simple example of linearity.

Yeah, he could end up seeming a lot like his boss incarnation, or even playing just like it. If PMBR don't decide to take a completely different direction. For all we know, he might play nothing like his boss version. How do you know he's going to share a single attack with his boss form?

Also, making the character an air-controllable only character (meaning no on-stage landing) would nullify standard control-protocol that all characters adhere to (neutral standing position, walking, dashing, jumping, etc). How would jumps work? How would movement work? What would his airdodge be like? Every one of these small aspects could actually damage the game either for Ridley or for players facing Ridley. There's so many small details that seem petite at first glance, but chewing it apart bit by bit, it just seems that much harder to actually believe he could be successfully executed. Scaling him down, in my mind would probably not do Ridley much justice at all, because of how slender the character actually is, would make his hurtboxes/hitboxes that much smaller/thinner, and would make the character look generally less like Ridley.

Yeah, he could be an air-only character. In all likelihood, that's not how things would turn out. He could easily end up standing on the ground and walking, dashing and jumping just like any other character. Why not? He fought on the ground in Metroid Prime. As far as scaling him down, it's been done successfully before. It didn't take away from him at all.

To be completely truthful, if the PMDT explored Ridley and *somehow* made it effective, I wouldn't have a problem with it, in fact I would challenge them to the task if they were up to it, and I'd love to see it. However, with everything that's listed, yes, I think it CAN have the potential to damage gameplay to a rather large extreme, either for the Ridley Player, or the Non-Ridley player, as he could end up being too small, and possess inferior power compared to the rest of the cast, OR he could end up being extremely massive and the next facemelter that would be one absolute casserole of a balance issue.

And this is the crux. You're not down-voting the character because of the character himself, you're downvoting the character because of what they might end up being like - something that we can't know unless it happens. You just said it yourself - if they could pull it off successfully, you wouldn't have a problem with him. Effectively, your reasoning - while certainly logical - is based on assumptions which might not end up being true.

Unfortunately, you can't vote for a character based on a moveset, only the character itself.

 

[GoldHazard]

All we can do is speculate at this point, so I don't see why assumptions shouldn't be taken into consideration, but i'm not going to push the issue since 90% of the community is in support of the character regardless of their thoughts. Assumptions, at this point, are all we have, and I think I made many fair points and adjusted for MULTIPLE different scenarios. I'm not bias, and sure, if it can be pulled off successfully I would like to see it, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I gave you multiple, fair, analytic points and you're still slamming some fictitious book in my face, when said character amounts to said book. My reasonings are more than strong enough for you to count the downvote, but you still persist to push the issue when I've given a fair analysis from my perspective that states the character could ruin the game experience. COULD! I didn't say CAN'T. Why? Because there's no hard facts that ANY of these characters, in theory, could work. But Ridley seems like the less logical of all of them for reasonings I've stated. You cannot know more than anyone else at this point, so it all boils down to speculations and assumptions, which is the big picture I think you fail to see.

I'm not going to push the issue any further. If you still don't want to count it, that's fine, but I think my reasonings are more than fair to justify my vote.

 

[Rhubarbo]

+1 Isaac
+1 Ray 01 (or any Custom Robo)
+1 Tetra
+1 Sami (Advance Wars)
+1 Matthew (or Colm, or Volke, or Sothe, or any Fire Emblem thief)

Isaac=Interesting Djinn system, Golden Sun music, and hopefully a Sol Sanctum stage.
Ray 01=Tiny, mobile, ground fighter. Almost like the Little Mac of Project M.
Tetra=Smash Bros. first outright pirate. There are a lot of Wind Waker assets that could be put to work here.
Sami=I heard about her through the leak and I honestly agree she's the best CO for Smash. She should summon troops.
Matthew/Thief=I think a literally and characteristically dodgy fighter would suit Smash well.

 

[Warsaint777]

Well after a long hiatus I make my epic comeback, but no idea why I'm doing that at this hour-- nobody's around...

Anyway I will try to be as less of a d*ck as possible in expressing my thoughts.

For starters, I'll put in a neg vote: -1 Everyone Stupid.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Funny thing I decide to pop in when there's talk of Mike Jones in the thread.

I'd be alright with a Yoyo-centric Ninten. As long as they give him a Mike Jones recolor. :D
Nah...
To be honest, that's not quite how I would have wanted Ninten to work, but whatever. I like Ninten best out of the 3 Mother protagonists, so however he is represented, I'm good.

Also, I know there's no trophy/sticker/song about him in Brawl, but... does a mention of his games in the Chronicles section contribute to anything?

BTW, as much as I'd love for it to be true, Mike was never considered in Brawl. Don't you think we had gotten at least a sticker of him if he was?
Sure, there's that 3D render floating around... Which is a very old photoshop I did of him, made up from different Brawl fighters.
As much as I'd love to keep the hope alive through this, it just doesn't help at all. I think it's better to be aware that Nintendo is completely forgetting about StarTropics rather than let this rumor fly around, making people believe that the situation with ST is not so bad.

-

Does anyone know when a next build of P:M could be released?
I see a lot of Costumes getting released every Tuesday. How do I add them to my current build? I stopped at 3.0 because I can't find the versions that follow.

 

[Shin F.]

Funny thing I decide to pop in when there's talk of Mike Jones in the thread.

I'd be alright with a Yoyo-centric Ninten. As long as they give him a Mike Jones recolor. :D
Nah...
To be honest, that's not quite how I would have wanted Ninten to work, but whatever. I like Ninten best out of the 3 Mother protagonists, so however he is represented, I'm good.

Also, I know there's no trophy/sticker/song about him in Brawl, but... does a mention of his games in the Chronicles section contribute to anything?

BTW, as much as I'd love for it to be true, Mike was never considered in Brawl. Don't you think we had gotten at least a sticker of him if he was?
Sure, there's that 3D render floating around... Which is a very old photoshop I did of him, made up from different Brawl fighters.
As much as I'd love to keep the hope alive through this, it just doesn't help at all. I think it's better to be aware that Nintendo is completely forgetting about StarTropics rather than let this rumor fly around, making people believe that the situation with ST is not so bad.

-

Does anyone know when a next build of P:M could be released?
I see a lot of Costumes getting released every Tuesday. How do I add them to my current build? I stopped at 3.0 because I can't find the versions that follow.

Mentions by name don't really quite constitute an actual appearance, unfortunately. Mike Jones would be really awesome.

And you're the one who made that Brawl render of him? That's probably my favorite version of him to date, lol. It's just how I imagine he'd look if he got an updated design.

The new costumes aren't officially released yet - they're previews for the next build (3.5), which doesn't have a release date yet. 3.02 is still the newest version that's available.

 

[Warsaint777]

A guy with a baseball bat. Hm.

Edit: I don't know sh*t about the NES games so forgive my prejudice.

 

[GunBuster]

Well it hasn't had a well goodly received game since er metroid prime 3 no offense

i wasn't aware metroid has had a game since then. what nonsense are you blathering about?

 

[Warsaint777]

who is that one FE chick with the massive hammer?

 

[GunBuster]

who is that one FE chick with the massive hammer?

can you be more specific? i'm not familiar with a female hammer wielder, but there are many who have axes... which is what a hammer is classed as, though.

 

[shinhed-echi]

A guy with a baseball bat. Hm.

Edit: I don't know sh*t about the NES games so forgive my prejudice.

StarTropics is in such an unfortunate position.

Mike wielding a baseball bat, and a yoyo, are probably the only pics of him wielding weapons.
Which is really bad for him, because he is OBVIOUSLY going to be compared to the cast of Mother games.
Truth is, Mike could only use the baseball bat in 2 levels throughout the whole game. And the attack was essentially a shorter version of Link's spin attack.

He can throw lit torches, shurikens that split apart on command, horsehide baseballs, bolas, perform cleat kicks, shoot laser and phaser guns. Discus, spike balls, a variety of slingshots, axes, daggers, swords. Not to mention, upgrade his Yoyo to a Morning Star and a galactic morning star which shoots cosmic energy across the screen.

And he learns a magic spell from Merlin called the Psychic Shockwave, which is more of a magical attack than actually psychic.

His repertoire of weapons is HUGE!


...
But, we're stuck with really old art (with a quality so bad that they don't even make good Brawl stickers apparently) about Baseball bats and Yoyos forever, and since that isn't enough to interest anyone already familiar with the Mother franchise, StarTropics is doomed to NEVER getting anything other than its NES games re-released.


So this, is the sad, sad situation that this franchise is in.
And another misconception is that this is an RPG. It's not. It's a top-down action game more a kin to Legend of Zelda. It has it's RPG elements, but it's still an action game.

And just in case, I'm not mad at anyone. XD I just tend to get a little touchy about the subject, but I have no hard feelings for anyone. This awesome franchise once shared Magazine space with giants like Super Mario, Zelda, Megaman and Castlevania.
Now, it's a miracle if I ever bump into a fellow fan online.

I'm sorry this has nothing to do with P:M, I could try to salvage it to say there is some cool StarTropics music I could suggest to PMBR to include, but I think that's up to each player to customize their own P:M music list.

 

[ghastmine]

i wasn't aware metroid has had a game since then. what nonsense are you blathering about?

Other m yes but notice how I say well received and dear God other m was horrible

 

[GunBuster]

Other m yes but notice how I say well received and dear God other m was horrible

"other M"? what is this... thing you speak of? it just sounds like something that would tear apart how metroid plays, shove horribly acted/executed cutscenes in and ruin the somewhat pre-established character that Samus has as a stoic, capable spacemarinewoman bounty hunter. nintendo wouldn't do that.

that's silly. As silly as a fluffy Ridley.
who would dream of it?

 

[Warsaint777]

I don't know if this has happened much in this thread, but we should discuss for a while a potential new unique moveset for Ganondorf should his present one be given to a Black Shadow model. I've yet to give it much thought at all. The only thing I know is that I wouldn't want him to be mostly sword-centric.

 

[| Kailex |]

I don't know if this has happened much in this thread, but we should discuss for a while a potential new unique moveset for Ganondorf

Funny

 

[Warsaint777]

Funny

alright can we get a trolling infraction on this a**hole already?

can you be more specific? i'm not familiar with a female hammer wielder, but there are many who have axes... which is what a hammer is classed as, though.

I dunno actually, I was looking up less boring female FE char's one day and she had dark hair and a hammer with a long thin handle and a massive head. It was physically impractical but cool. Cooler than Lyn or Lucina's dumb ass anyway.

 

[| Kailex |]

alright can we get a trolling infraction on this a**hole already?

Please stop it, Im dying

 

[GunBuster]

pfffthaha.

and honestly, like i have for sami, we can speculate moves for any CE characters but chances of any of them actually being a factor in defining how said characters work is pretty minimal. we should keep this to what it is - a pure, shameless popularity contest, with maybe discussion of what assets they can pull from their games for their moves, if they can be used well.

Spoiler

also I hate this black shadow ganondorf thing. there are some of us who like Ganon and his "I CAST FIST" playstyle.

 

[Warsaint777]

Please stop it, Im dying

Wait, really? '_'

also I hate this black shadow ganongorf thing. there are some of us who like Ganon and his "I CAST FIST" playstyle.

I am actually kind of attached to ganon's rough-tough fist-in-your-face style as well, but I think we can still keep that spirit with a different moveset. And I think it's the moveset people are more attracted to than Ganon himself, meaning fans will be able to transition to BS in general contentment.

 

[Designs]

+ Pokemon Trainer/Red (Model remains, great potential for moveset between Snake/Link/Wario).

+ Ridley

+ Banjo-Kazooie (Since Rare's departure with Nintendo, scarred his appearance in what was destined to be a smash characther. Make it happen PMBR!!! I will be willing to dedicate my time in co-developing this character)

+ Plusie and Minun (Great idea for a chained Pichu concept. This is very possible and could create an awesome character.)

+ Issac




If you happen to read this PMBR, feel free to PM me for details on my technical background and skillets. Would love to work on an private "open source" as this.

 

[GunBuster]

alright can we get a trolling infraction on this a**hole already?

I dunno actually, I was looking up less boring female FE char's one day and she had dark hair and a hammer with a long thin handle and a massive head. It was physically impractical but cool. Cooler than Lyn or Lucina's dumb *** anyway.

well i just went through every character portrait on the FE wiki game by game (before Brawl was released) and cannot find a single character matching that description. not to mention that Fire emblem's weapons have never really been portrayed as "over the top" in official art, save for the obligatory legendary weapons every one of these games likes to have, and in my experiences with the games female characters tend to default to lances, staves and swords to a much higher frequency. though exceptions exist, like Titania and Cherche (both wield axes). are you sure this character is FE related?

I think it's the moveset people are more attracted to than Ganon himself.

not me. i find it hilariously appropriate on him and never want it to go away.

alslo, look at this.

Spoiler

official art.

VERY Fist.

 

[GunBuster]

ALL THIS ****

also would people PLEASE read the OP for crying out loud.

 

[Solbliminal]

+ Pokemon Trainer/Red (Model remains, great potential for moveset between Snake/Link/Wario).

+ Ridley

+ Banjo-Kazooie (Since Rare's departure with Nintendo, scarred his appearance in what was destined to be a smash characther. Make it happen PMBR!!! I will be willing to dedicate my time in co-developing this character)

+ Plusie and Minun (Great idea for a chained Pichu concept. This is very possible and could create an awesome character.)

+ Issac




If you happen to read this PMBR, feel free to PM me for details on my technical background and skillets. Would love to work on an private "open source" as this.

Unfortunately you can't vote for Banjo-Kazooie. Characters voted on in this thread must be from Brawl in some physical form, such as Trophy, Sticker, Assist Trophy, Stage Cameo, ect. Sorry.

 

[QuickRat]

I know it's a troll character, but what could you say about a newcomer from 1080°/Wave Race? I love those series and maybe they could bring even more original characters to PM.

 

[Generically Epic]

What if we put Toon Ganondarf in...?

 

[Geno Boost]

i voted:
+1 ninten
+1 gonondorf sowrd and black shadow
+1 king k. rool
+1 isaac
+1 sukapon

 

[cmart]

If you happen to read this PMBR, feel free to PM me for details on my technical background and skillets. Would love to work on an private "open source" as this.

Unfortunately applications are closed. If you're still interested after 3.5 has been released, feel free to use that forum to apply to the Development Team.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Well I'm glad that someone went in with the explanation of what Mike Jones is capable of. Sadly, he continues to get the worst kind of shafting between all of the things Echi mentioned. Sucks too, I'd totally see him as the first real flail user in Smash and the first "sporty" type of character based on his status as a JV/Varsity level high school athlete. He's also the only character that outranks every other character I've ever wanted to see put into Smash Bros although in recent times, Takamaru has been right there with him.

 

[ElPanandero]

I just want to tell you that even though your reasoning does have some logical thought behind it, it's hard to take seriously when you are also providing upvotes to just as hard to include characters like Skull Kid and K. Rool.

You may personally prefer Dark Samus and not want the PMDT to spend so much time working on Ridley when she is a perfectly fine alternative with a lesser workload. That's fine and dandy, but it's not really grounds for us to take as a negative vote since he actually doesn't ruin your experiences with the game. Unless he does then you need to just tell us why straight up and we'll count it as a negative vote.

What's wrong with Skull Kid and K. Rool? ...

I am actually kind of attached to ganon's rough-tough fist-in-your-face style as well, but I think we can still keep that spirit with a different moveset. And I think it's the moveset people are more attracted to than Ganon himself, meaning fans will be able to transition to BS in general contentment.

Personally I love Ganon, and his moveset, and don't care at all for Black Shadow and despite being a Ganon main, I probably would not follow it over to that goon of a character. Regardless, my opinion is probably a majority, so this was mostly to show there are some out here like me

+1 Isaac

+1 Matthew (or Colm, or Volke, or Sothe, or any Fire Emblem thief)

Matthew/Thief=I think a literally and characteristically dodgy fighter would suit Smash well.

Volke please. Seriously though, he'd be awesome.

+ .5 to Volke
+ .5 to Matthew

 

[JCOnyx]

What's wrong with Skull Kid and K. Rool? ...

They would require a huge amount of animation work, more so then a lot of other characters because of them not having any decent bases to fall back on. Almost the entirety of their move sets would have to be made from scratch.

It might not seem like that big a deal to some, but just realize that Mewtwo, a character which they already had animations to base off of, took 700 hours. That's not including modeling and all the other quirks that come with creating a new character.

They would still be wonderful additions, but you should consider how hard it'll be to include them before voting for them. Using this as a reason to downvote though doesn't make sense, since development time doesn't effect how much you'll enjoy the game after it comes out.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

What Brawl render of Mike Jones are you guys talking about?

 

[ElPanandero]

They would require a huge amount of animation work, more so then a lot of other characters because of them not having any decent bases to fall back on. Almost the entirety of their move sets would have to be made from scratch.

It might not seem like that big a deal to some, but just realize that Mewtwo, a character which they already had animations to base off of, took 700 hours. That's not including modeling and all the other quirks that come with creating a new character.

They would still be wonderful additions, but you should consider how hard it'll be to include them before voting for them. Using this as a reason to downvote though doesn't make sense, since development time doesn't effect how much you'll enjoy the game after it comes out.

Oh okay, I thought you were talking from just a chaarcter choice perspective, not a technical one. My bad.

Though couldn't skull kid be mapped over any of the smaller humanoids just as a decent base (Tlink, The mother boys [arrested devlopment anyone? hehe jus tnoticed that]) with little needing to be done to the skeletons just leaving textures, animations and attacks? (Granted thats still a **** ton of stuff, but less than Ridley I'd imagine)

 

[shinhed-echi]

What Brawl render of Mike Jones are you guys talking about?

I made this "render" (without the background), and it was suddenly floating around, and somebody thought it was an actual leak.


I made it better later, without knowing people were already talking about it as if it was an actual rumor.
And well, this is what the final piece looks like,

A bit of an improvement... Still doesn't change the fact that I made it out of several Brawlers' parts.
Dammit, Nintendo... Why can't you guys at least make new art about him? Why can't Sakurai at least make a 3D trophy out of him?

(While we're at it, here's a little game. Identify each part and say which character it belongs to. :D)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

This "render" (without the background), was floating around, and somebody thought it was an actual leak.


I made it better later, without knowing people were already talking about it as if it was an actual rumor.
And well, this is what the final piece looks like,

A bit of an improvement... Still doesn't change the fact that I made it out of several Brawlers' parts.
Dammit, Nintendo... Why can't you guys at least make new art about him? Why can't Sakurai at least make a 3D trophy out of him?

(While we're at it, here's a little game. Identify each part and say which character it belongs to. :D)

Damn, that looks good despite being photoshopped

As for naming separate parts, the left arm and legs are from Pokémon Trainer's render.

 

[ghastmine]

Hey project m look why not just give us the tools to make a character instead of voting I mean we all got diffrent interests?

 

[leekslap]

Now I'm gonna elaborate on the Plasma Pichu idea. To help move even quicker, Pichu would have a technique called Agility canceling. If you Agility into the ground, you can immediately act out of it and perform a ground move because it has no landing lag. Pichu also only damages himself when he uses powerful level 4 electric attacks or his best kill moves st level 3 such as be his standing Thunder, Discharge, forward smash among others. You can clearly see what level Pichu is at based on the electricity that surrounds him. Moves can change radically at different levels so managing your movement for comboing and seting up finishers is key. Discharge would be his side special. It grows weaker the farther away you are from it and a level 1 Discharge is completely useless. It's basically like a horizontal Thunder coming out of Pichu's body and inspiration could be taken from Robin's own Thunder special move. As for Pichu's own Thunder, the hitbox around him if he hits himself would be devastaing but so would the recoil. If you get hit with the actually lightning, it stuns you quite a bit and sends you the direction you DI if you manage not to get gimped. I can't go too indepth on his normals because of charge levels but obviously the PMDT would try to differenciate Pichu's and Pikachu's normals. His stats would make him very easy to kill but although its not impossible like Puff, it's kinda hard to combo him. His defense would be above average at best and he's can be punished VERY hard. He can combo and kill like second nature and his range and disjoints and OoS are pretty good so he can deal with pressure fairly easy. As you can see, with a little work, one of Melee's worst and most useless characters can become great and unique. Now can you seriously consider Pichu?

 

[QuickRat]

I love Ganondorf. Really. Love him. Both the character and the moveset. I love everything. Without Ness, he's by far the most exciting and sex-appealing character for me. But I'd like to see Black Shadow with this moveset and make Ganondorf a canon character. Why? Simple: I love F-Zero and it need more reps, I love Black Shadow and he should kick asses here as well, I love Captain Falcon and he deserves a rival and I kind of dislike of cloning a spaceship driver in order to create a medieval king of evil.

 

[GoldHazard]

I can actually agree with the above post and the reasonings behind it.

+0.5 For Black Shadow/Ganondorf.

 

[GunBuster]

They would require a huge amount of animation work, more so then a lot of other characters because of them not having any decent bases to fall back on. Almost the entirety of their move sets would have to be made from scratch.

ACTUALLY

there's a mod on Brawlvault that puts a K.rool skin over Bowser, and it is kind of nifty just how many of his animations work on K.rool. the whirling fortress is replaced with pic related.

i'm just saying that being a bowser clone is not an impossible approach.

 

[Chihiro Fujisaki]

id like to change a vote, i can vote for characters not on the list, right? if so

• ninten
• masked man
• takamaru
• anna
• dixie kong

if not then it remains the same