New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Solbliminal]

And then I suddenly realized that I was Ninten

Give this man a raise.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

This is clearly just a personal preference and nothing more, as I think I'm one of the few(?) people who thinks Snake's inclusion in Smash was strange and surreal, even to this day. I've nothing against Snake or how he plays but seeing Solid Snake running around with a bunch of Nintendo characters just seems... off-putting. I'd rather a clone engine slot be used by a Nintendo character rather than a third-party.
.

Considering the first game in the series, Metal Gear, was on MSX1 and the Nintendo Entertainment System and Shigeru Miyamoto teamed up with Hideo Kojima when Konami created Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes is it really that off putting?

I agree that I wouldn't want to see a whole mess of third party characters playable in Smash. Still, I will say they have to be the RIGHT third party character. Call me crazy but if Sakurai or the PMBR said Ryu Hayabusa was in a Smash game I'd be happily suprised. He stared in 3 games on the NES, had a fun game on the DS and Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge originally came out on a Nintendo home console.

.... >.> not that I'm suggesting Mario get Izuna Dropped and have his head explode....<.< Just saying Knuckles and Tails isn't the right 3rd party characters.

 

[Anti Guy]

Considering the first game in the series, Metal Gear, was on MSX1 and the Nintendo Entertainment System and Shigeru Miyamoto teamed up with Hideo Kojima when Konami created Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes is it really that off putting?

I agree that I wouldn't want to see a whole mess of third party characters playable in Smash. Still, I will say they have to be the RIGHT third party character. Call me crazy but if Sakurai or the PMBR said Ryu Hayabusa was in a Smash game I'd be happily suprised. He stared in 3 games on the NES, had a fun game on the DS and Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge originally came out on a Nintendo home console.

.... >.> not that I'm suggesting Mario get Izuna Dropped and have his head explode....<.< Just saying Knuckles and Tails isn't the right 3rd party characters.

I actually had very similar sentiments with Insanity's Bane a page or two (or maybe three) ago. Putting in Snake is fine. Hell, Ryu Hayabusa would be fine too. Snake doesn't just represent MGS -- he represents the company of Konami. That's great -- he's a guest in a Nintendo All Stars game. But bringing in other characters from MGS is immediately crossing the line to ridiculous. (It's kinda like bringing in an outsider guest to a wedding where most people are in the family. But then that guest wants to bring his family members... wtf?) There's a similar argument for the Sonic series, but at least those characters are more in Nintendo's style and have partnered up with them (Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games). I'm still opposed to Sonic characters though -- and obviously, any third-party characters. Any other third party characters like Ryua Hayabusa are ineligible anyways.

 

[Boondocker]

Yugi should be in this, although Im not sure what a possible moveset could be. An up-b involving blue eyes white dragon would be cool.

 

[Shin F.]

Yugi should be in this, although Im not sure what a possible moveset could be. An up-b involving blue eyes white dragon would be cool.

He can't be. Only characters that were in Brawl as trophies or stickers are possible. Yugi was only brought up as an example of a character with a summoning fighting style.

 

[Morian]

+1/2 Dixie Kong
+1/2 Ashley
+1/2 Ray MK III
+1/2 Saki
+1/2 Skull Kid
+1/2 Takamaru

My previous full votes are green now, if I'm missing a rule or something.

 

[Exodo]

Yugi should be in this, although Im not sure what a possible moveset could be. An up-b involving blue eyes white dragon would be cool.

are you serious...

 

[Exodo]

EDIT: again.. why did it doble posted T.T

 

[U-Throw]

-1 Pichu
Time spent on Pichu is time wasted. Project M already has seven PokéReps. If they do decide to add another one, why not choose one that has had some sort of significance on the series as a whole? Like, say, Dragonite.

Maybe it's just me or maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I don't see what Pichu (or "Pichu Bros." for that matter) could bring to the table that other characters already don't.

Well, first of all, they are only the second two-in-one character. And, while I acknowledge that's not exactly "new," I definently think its a point in Pichu Bros. favor. When you consider that the final Project M Roster can have up to 46 characters, having only one of a character archetype (in this case duos) is pathetically low. Adding just one character of that archetype can alleviate this problem, if only by an extremely small bit. This character can also appeal to a wide range of people. Pichu fans can be happy because he comes back. I acknowledge they are a very small minority, but also consider that making Pichu competitively viable via the Pichu Bros. (this is because they are getting twice the power due there being two of them, but at only regular recoil damage for each Pichu Bro.) could give them the potential to be rather popular among the competitive community due to his archetype having an extremely high learning curve because of the fact you have to ensure the safety of two characters and the fact they are a rarity in Smash Bros. because he is only one of two of his type, as well as the fact that his doubled power (which would likely be a major part of why he is competitively viable) relies on the fact that both Pichu Bro.'s attacks must connect in order for the double power to take effect, which requires substantial reading skill, a high amount of accuracy, and extremely good timing. In addition, he is different enough from both Pikachu and the Ice Climbers to potentially gain more popularity. Obviously, one of the main differences between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is the fact that the Pichu Bros.'s moveset would be almost totally cloned from Pikachu. When seperated, both the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers experience a drop in overall power. However, differences are furthered by the fact that a lone Pichu Bro. could still be somewhat viable, unlike a lone Ice Climber, who, if knocked off stage, practically means death due to his pathetic recovery. This is because Pichu has access to Agility, allowing decent solo recovery. But, to compensate somewhat, and also furthering the Pichu Bros. even more from the Ice Climbers, recovery as a team as the Pichu Bros. would be rather difficult, considering that only one person can grab a ledge, odds are one Pichu Bro. would die as a result of having Agilty as a recovery move. Ice Climbers, however, can both survive due to the way Belay works, if I remember correctly. Once again, this just distances the two pairs even more. Also, when desynched, the Pichu Bros. can still recover when seperated during a desynch due to Agility, whereas with the Ice Climbers it is practically impossible to recover when separated and desyched. This same principle of being able to recover when separated also applies to basic separation, especially when it is forces separation. This makes the Pichu Bros. able recover if knocked off-stage when forcibly separated, unlike the Ice Climbers. When it really comes down to it, the only real similarity between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is that both are two-in-one-package characters. The Pichu Bros. would provide a completely different learning experience and play style from the Ice Climbers. In my opinion, these arguments should justify a place for him, but I'll go on in case you doubt it. They are also somewhat different from Pikachu. While the Pichu Bros.' moveset is almost completely cloned from Pikachu's, keep in mind there are two of Pichu, a drastic difference in and of itself. This makes learning to play the Pichu Bros. a completely different experience from learning to play Pikachu. You have to develop new skills and have excellent focus in order to use a two-in-one-character, especially when it comes to desynchs. Desynchs are important to the Ice Climbers, something that would probably carry over into the Pichu Bros. The different skills it takes to use a character that can desynch differentiates using Pikachu and Pichu drastically, and when you consider all the other differences between the two Pokemon, as well as the accuracy and timing it takes for the Pichu Bros.'s double power (something necessary to make it competitively viable) to be used properly, it becomes a completely different learning experience and play style, just like as with the Ice Climbers. Finally, let us not forget Pichu's most unique feature: his self-damage system. Pichu's gimmick is the fact that it hurts itself whenever it attacks, generally speaking. No other character in the entirety of Smash has this gimmick. Putting the Pichu Bros. in Project M brings back this truly unique gimmick, and allows them to create a character that depends on accuracy and timing unlike any other character. This is something very new that they bring to the table, because literally no other character in the game has the gimmick that the Pichu Bros. would have. Technically speaking, since the Pichu Bros. could have the Pichu from Melee as Pichu Little, they could be considered the only characters in Smash with this gimmick. This alone is something incredibly new that they bring to the table. In addition, they can be somewhat unique in that, while being small and fast, they also are rather powerful when it comes to blow-for-blow power. Maybe not necessarily overall power, but certainly blow-for-blow power. I say "somewhat unique" because of Squirtle, who is similar in this respect. Even then, they would only be the second character Project M like this, and to present a small difference between Pichu Bros. and Squirtle in this regard, the Pichu Bros.' wallop only truly kicks in when both a Pichu Bros. are present and both land the hit. So, let's review the new stuff that they bring.

-They're only the second of an uncommon archetype in Smash
-They are completely different from the Ice Climbers, with the only thing they truly have in common is the fact that they are both two-in-one characters
-They provide a completely different learning experience and play style from primarily Pikachu, but also the Ice Climbers
-They would be the only character in Project M to have their unique self-damage gimmick
-They depend on accuracy, timing, and reading skills like no other character, because it is this power that makes it competitively viable
-Unlike the Ice Climbers, they can recover when forcibly separated or when only one Pichu Bro. is left
-They are somewhat unique in the fact that, while being small and fast, they also pack a wallop when it comes to blow-for-blow power
-The difference between their blow-for-blow power and Squirtles's is the fact that the Pichu Bros.' power only truly kicks in when both are present and both land the hit

Overall, I think the Pichu Bros. could bring a lot of new stuff to the table and provide a unique learning experience and play style different not only from Pikachu and the Ice Climbers, but from the entire cast as a whole, because of the unique skills, gimmicks, and differences that they hinge on.

 

[Friesnchip]

Well, first of all, they are only the second two-in-one character. And, while I acknowledge that's not exactly "new," I definently think its a point in Pichu Bros. favor. When you consider that the final Project M Roster can have up to 46 characters, having only one of a character archetype (in this case duos) is pathetically low. Adding just one character of that archetype can alleviate this problem, if only by an extremely small bit. This character can also appeal to a wide range of people. Pichu fans can be happy because he comes back. I acknowledge they are a very small minority, but also consider that making Pichu competitively viable via the Pichu Bros. (this is because they are getting twice the power due there being two of them, but at only regular recoil damage for each Pichu Bro.) could give them the potential to be rather popular among the competitive community due to his archetype having an extremely high learning curve because of the fact you have to ensure the safety of two characters and the fact they are a rarity in Smash Bros. because he is only one of two of his type, as well as the fact that his doubled power (which would likely be a major part of why he is competitively viable) relies on the fact that both Pichu Bro.'s attacks must connect in order for the double power to take effect, which requires substantial reading skill, a high amount of accuracy, and extremely good timing. In addition, he is different enough from both Pikachu and the Ice Climbers to potentially gain more popularity. Obviously, one of the main differences between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is the fact that the Pichu Bros.'s moveset would be almost totally cloned from Pikachu. When seperated, both the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers experience a drop in overall power. However, differences are furthered by the fact that a lone Pichu Bro. could still be somewhat viable, unlike a lone Ice Climber, who, if knocked off stage, practically means death due to his pathetic recovery. This is because Pichu has access to Agility, allowing decent solo recovery. But, to compensate somewhat, and also furthering the Pichu Bros. even more from the Ice Climbers, recovery as a team as the Pichu Bros. would be rather difficult, considering that only one person can grab a ledge, odds are one Pichu Bro. would die as a result of having Agilty as a recovery move. Ice Climbers, however, can both survive due to the way Belay works, if I remember correctly. Once again, this just distances the two pairs even more. Also, when desynched, the Pichu Bros. can still recover when seperated during a desynch due to Agility, whereas with the Ice Climbers it is practically impossible to recover when separated and desyched. This same principle of being able to recover when separated also applies to basic separation, especially when it is forces separation. This makes the Pichu Bros. able recover if knocked off-stage when forcibly separated, unlike the Ice Climbers. When it really comes down to it, the only real similarity between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is that both are two-in-one-package characters. The Pichu Bros. would provide a completely different learning experience and play style from the Ice Climbers. In my opinion, these arguments should justify a place for him, but I'll go on in case you doubt it. They are also somewhat different from Pikachu. While the Pichu Bros.' moveset is almost completely cloned from Pikachu's, keep in mind there are two of Pichu, a drastic difference in and of itself. This makes learning to play the Pichu Bros. a completely different experience from learning to play Pikachu. You have to develop new skills and have excellent focus in order to use a two-in-one-character, especially when it comes to desynchs. Desynchs are important to the Ice Climbers, something that would probably carry over into the Pichu Bros. The different skills it takes to use a character that can desynch differentiates using Pikachu and Pichu drastically, and when you consider all the other differences between the two Pokemon, as well as the accuracy and timing it takes for the Pichu Bros.'s double power (something necessary to make it competitively viable) to be used properly, it becomes a completely different learning experience and play style, just like as with the Ice Climbers. Finally, let us not forget Pichu's most unique feature: his self-damage system. Pichu's gimmick is the fact that it hurts itself whenever it attacks, generally speaking. No other character in the entirety of Smash has this gimmick. Putting the Pichu Bros. in Project M brings back this truly unique gimmick, and allows them to create a character that depends on accuracy and timing unlike any other character. This is something very new that they bring to the table, because literally no other character in the game has the gimmick that the Pichu Bros. would have. Technically speaking, since the Pichu Bros. could have the Pichu from Melee as Pichu Little, they could be considered the only characters in Smash with this gimmick. This alone is something incredibly new that they bring to the table. In addition, they can be somewhat unique in that, while being small and fast, they also are rather powerful when it comes to blow-for-blow power. Maybe not necessarily overall power, but certainly blow-for-blow power. I say "somewhat unique" because of Squirtle, who is similar in this respect. Even then, they would only be the second character Project M like this, and to present a small difference between Pichu Bros. and Squirtle in this regard, the Pichu Bros.' wallop only truly kicks in when both a Pichu Bros. are present and both land the hit. So, let's review the new stuff that they bring.

-They're only the second of an uncommon archetype in Smash
-They are completely different from the Ice Climbers, with the only thing they truly have in common is the fact that they are both two-in-one characters
-They provide a completely different learning experience and play style from primarily Pikachu, but also the Ice Climbers
-They would be the only character in Project M to have their unique self-damage gimmick
-They depend on accuracy, timing, and reading skills like no other character, because it is this power that makes it competitively viable
-Unlike the Ice Climbers, they can recover when forcibly separated or when only one Pichu Bro. is left
-They are somewhat unique in the fact that, while being small and fast, they also pack a wallop when it comes to blow-for-blow power
-The difference between their blow-for-blow power and Squirtles's is the fact that the Pichu Bros.' power only truly kicks in when both are present and both land the hit

Overall, I think the Pichu Bros. could bring a lot of new stuff to the table and provide a unique learning experience and play style different not only from Pikachu and the Ice Climbers, but from the entire cast as a whole, because of the unique skills, gimmicks, and differences that they hinge on.

Well then.

 

[PlateProp]

Well, first of all, they are only the second two-in-one character. And, while I acknowledge that's not exactly "new," I definently think its a point in Pichu Bros. favor. When you consider that the final Project M Roster can have up to 46 characters, having only one of a character archetype (in this case duos) is pathetically low. Adding just one character of that archetype can alleviate this problem, if only by an extremely small bit. This character can also appeal to a wide range of people. Pichu fans can be happy because he comes back. I acknowledge they are a very small minority, but also consider that making Pichu competitively viable via the Pichu Bros. (this is because they are getting twice the power due there being two of them, but at only regular recoil damage for each Pichu Bro.) could give them the potential to be rather popular among the competitive community due to his archetype having an extremely high learning curve because of the fact you have to ensure the safety of two characters and the fact they are a rarity in Smash Bros. because he is only one of two of his type, as well as the fact that his doubled power (which would likely be a major part of why he is competitively viable) relies on the fact that both Pichu Bro.'s attacks must connect in order for the double power to take effect, which requires substantial reading skill, a high amount of accuracy, and extremely good timing. In addition, he is different enough from both Pikachu and the Ice Climbers to potentially gain more popularity. Obviously, one of the main differences between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is the fact that the Pichu Bros.'s moveset would be almost totally cloned from Pikachu. When seperated, both the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers experience a drop in overall power. However, differences are furthered by the fact that a lone Pichu Bro. could still be somewhat viable, unlike a lone Ice Climber, who, if knocked off stage, practically means death due to his pathetic recovery. This is because Pichu has access to Agility, allowing decent solo recovery. But, to compensate somewhat, and also furthering the Pichu Bros. even more from the Ice Climbers, recovery as a team as the Pichu Bros. would be rather difficult, considering that only one person can grab a ledge, odds are one Pichu Bro. would die as a result of having Agilty as a recovery move. Ice Climbers, however, can both survive due to the way Belay works, if I remember correctly. Once again, this just distances the two pairs even more. Also, when desynched, the Pichu Bros. can still recover when seperated during a desynch due to Agility, whereas with the Ice Climbers it is practically impossible to recover when separated and desyched. This same principle of being able to recover when separated also applies to basic separation, especially when it is forces separation. This makes the Pichu Bros. able recover if knocked off-stage when forcibly separated, unlike the Ice Climbers. When it really comes down to it, the only real similarity between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is that both are two-in-one-package characters. The Pichu Bros. would provide a completely different learning experience and play style from the Ice Climbers. In my opinion, these arguments should justify a place for him, but I'll go on in case you doubt it. They are also somewhat different from Pikachu. While the Pichu Bros.' moveset is almost completely cloned from Pikachu's, keep in mind there are two of Pichu, a drastic difference in and of itself. This makes learning to play the Pichu Bros. a completely different experience from learning to play Pikachu. You have to develop new skills and have excellent focus in order to use a two-in-one-character, especially when it comes to desynchs. Desynchs are important to the Ice Climbers, something that would probably carry over into the Pichu Bros. The different skills it takes to use a character that can desynch differentiates using Pikachu and Pichu drastically, and when you consider all the other differences between the two Pokemon, as well as the accuracy and timing it takes for the Pichu Bros.'s double power (something necessary to make it competitively viable) to be used properly, it becomes a completely different learning experience and play style, just like as with the Ice Climbers. Finally, let us not forget Pichu's most unique feature: his self-damage system. Pichu's gimmick is the fact that it hurts itself whenever it attacks, generally speaking. No other character in the entirety of Smash has this gimmick. Putting the Pichu Bros. in Project M brings back this truly unique gimmick, and allows them to create a character that depends on accuracy and timing unlike any other character. This is something very new that they bring to the table, because literally no other character in the game has the gimmick that the Pichu Bros. would have. Technically speaking, since the Pichu Bros. could have the Pichu from Melee as Pichu Little, they could be considered the only characters in Smash with this gimmick. This alone is something incredibly new that they bring to the table. In addition, they can be somewhat unique in that, while being small and fast, they also are rather powerful when it comes to blow-for-blow power. Maybe not necessarily overall power, but certainly blow-for-blow power. I say "somewhat unique" because of Squirtle, who is similar in this respect. Even then, they would only be the second character Project M like this, and to present a small difference between Pichu Bros. and Squirtle in this regard, the Pichu Bros.' wallop only truly kicks in when both a Pichu Bros. are present and both land the hit. So, let's review the new stuff that they bring.

-They're only the second of an uncommon archetype in Smash
-They are completely different from the Ice Climbers, with the only thing they truly have in common is the fact that they are both two-in-one characters
-They provide a completely different learning experience and play style from primarily Pikachu, but also the Ice Climbers
-They would be the only character in Project M to have their unique self-damage gimmick
-They depend on accuracy, timing, and reading skills like no other character, because it is this power that makes it competitively viable
-Unlike the Ice Climbers, they can recover when forcibly separated or when only one Pichu Bro. is left
-They are somewhat unique in the fact that, while being small and fast, they also pack a wallop when it comes to blow-for-blow power
-The difference between their blow-for-blow power and Squirtles's is the fact that the Pichu Bros.' power only truly kicks in when both are present and both land the hit

Overall, I think the Pichu Bros. could bring a lot of new stuff to the table and provide a unique learning experience and play style different not only from Pikachu and the Ice Climbers, but from the entire cast as a whole, because of the unique skills, gimmicks, and differences that they hinge on.

Dat argument just got 4 stocked

 

[Anti Guy]

Holy crap, use paragraphs please. O_O

It doesn't help that it's also one block of blinding electric teal

 

[GeZ]

Holy crap, use paragraphs please. O_O

It doesn't help that it's also one block of blinding electric teal

Dude, at least he doesn't have dark blue or dark purple for it. When people choose those I have to god damn highlight there posts just to read them.

And I totally agree that another duo character would be hype. Like, I think Pichu's dumb and doesn't need to be added, but pichu bros is just a different story. I'm really excited for the possibility just because I love the idea of more duo characters, as they're a really cool, really underexplored part of the smash series.

 

[ChiePet]

Holy crap, use paragraphs please. O_O

It doesn't help that it's also one block of blinding electric teal

Off topic but I totally read that as Electric Feel.
MGMT for Project M.
+1 Vote.

 

[Anti Guy]

Off topic but I totally read that as Electric Feel.
MGMT for Project M.
+1 Vote.

It's okay. This has been all time to pretend anyways.

 

[Exodo]

Well, first of all, they are only the second two-in-one character. And, while I acknowledge that's not exactly "new," I definently think its a point in Pichu Bros. favor. When you consider that the final Project M Roster can have up to 46 characters, having only one of a character archetype (in this case duos) is pathetically low. Adding just one character of that archetype can alleviate this problem, if only by an extremely small bit. This character can also appeal to a wide range of people. Pichu fans can be happy because he comes back. I acknowledge they are a very small minority, but also consider that making Pichu competitively viable via the Pichu Bros. (this is because they are getting twice the power due there being two of them, but at only regular recoil damage for each Pichu Bro.) could give them the potential to be rather popular among the competitive community due to his archetype having an extremely high learning curve because of the fact you have to ensure the safety of two characters and the fact they are a rarity in Smash Bros. because he is only one of two of his type, as well as the fact that his doubled power (which would likely be a major part of why he is competitively viable) relies on the fact that both Pichu Bro.'s attacks must connect in order for the double power to take effect, which requires substantial reading skill, a high amount of accuracy, and extremely good timing. In addition, he is different enough from both Pikachu and the Ice Climbers to potentially gain more popularity. Obviously, one of the main differences between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is the fact that the Pichu Bros.'s moveset would be almost totally cloned from Pikachu. When seperated, both the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers experience a drop in overall power. However, differences are furthered by the fact that a lone Pichu Bro. could still be somewhat viable, unlike a lone Ice Climber, who, if knocked off stage, practically means death due to his pathetic recovery. This is because Pichu has access to Agility, allowing decent solo recovery. But, to compensate somewhat, and also furthering the Pichu Bros. even more from the Ice Climbers, recovery as a team as the Pichu Bros. would be rather difficult, considering that only one person can grab a ledge, odds are one Pichu Bro. would die as a result of having Agilty as a recovery move. Ice Climbers, however, can both survive due to the way Belay works, if I remember correctly. Once again, this just distances the two pairs even more. Also, when desynched, the Pichu Bros. can still recover when seperated during a desynch due to Agility, whereas with the Ice Climbers it is practically impossible to recover when separated and desyched. This same principle of being able to recover when separated also applies to basic separation, especially when it is forces separation. This makes the Pichu Bros. able recover if knocked off-stage when forcibly separated, unlike the Ice Climbers. When it really comes down to it, the only real similarity between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is that both are two-in-one-package characters. The Pichu Bros. would provide a completely different learning experience and play style from the Ice Climbers. In my opinion, these arguments should justify a place for him, but I'll go on in case you doubt it. They are also somewhat different from Pikachu. While the Pichu Bros.' moveset is almost completely cloned from Pikachu's, keep in mind there are two of Pichu, a drastic difference in and of itself. This makes learning to play the Pichu Bros. a completely different experience from learning to play Pikachu. You have to develop new skills and have excellent focus in order to use a two-in-one-character, especially when it comes to desynchs. Desynchs are important to the Ice Climbers, something that would probably carry over into the Pichu Bros. The different skills it takes to use a character that can desynch differentiates using Pikachu and Pichu drastically, and when you consider all the other differences between the two Pokemon, as well as the accuracy and timing it takes for the Pichu Bros.'s double power (something necessary to make it competitively viable) to be used properly, it becomes a completely different learning experience and play style, just like as with the Ice Climbers. Finally, let us not forget Pichu's most unique feature: his self-damage system. Pichu's gimmick is the fact that it hurts itself whenever it attacks, generally speaking. No other character in the entirety of Smash has this gimmick. Putting the Pichu Bros. in Project M brings back this truly unique gimmick, and allows them to create a character that depends on accuracy and timing unlike any other character. This is something very new that they bring to the table, because literally no other character in the game has the gimmick that the Pichu Bros. would have. Technically speaking, since the Pichu Bros. could have the Pichu from Melee as Pichu Little, they could be considered the only characters in Smash with this gimmick. This alone is something incredibly new that they bring to the table. In addition, they can be somewhat unique in that, while being small and fast, they also are rather powerful when it comes to blow-for-blow power. Maybe not necessarily overall power, but certainly blow-for-blow power. I say "somewhat unique" because of Squirtle, who is similar in this respect. Even then, they would only be the second character Project M like this, and to present a small difference between Pichu Bros. and Squirtle in this regard, the Pichu Bros.' wallop only truly kicks in when both a Pichu Bros. are present and both land the hit. So, let's review the new stuff that they bring.

-They're only the second of an uncommon archetype in Smash
-They are completely different from the Ice Climbers, with the only thing they truly have in common is the fact that they are both two-in-one characters
-They provide a completely different learning experience and play style from primarily Pikachu, but also the Ice Climbers
-They would be the only character in Project M to have their unique self-damage gimmick
-They depend on accuracy, timing, and reading skills like no other character, because it is this power that makes it competitively viable
-Unlike the Ice Climbers, they can recover when forcibly separated or when only one Pichu Bro. is left
-They are somewhat unique in the fact that, while being small and fast, they also pack a wallop when it comes to blow-for-blow power
-The difference between their blow-for-blow power and Squirtles's is the fact that the Pichu Bros.' power only truly kicks in when both are present and both land the hit

Overall, I think the Pichu Bros. could bring a lot of new stuff to the table and provide a unique learning experience and play style different not only from Pikachu and the Ice Climbers, but from the entire cast as a whole, because of the unique skills, gimmicks, and differences that they hinge on.

tho my eyes almost exploded reading this, i totally agree with you. Pichu Bros can be the GREAT solution for both Pichu haters and fans. it would bring something new to the game and also back a melee underdog that cause mayor hype when used competitively. imagine that, but duplicated O.O!!!

 

[Huffy]

I just want to insert my thoughts on a couple of things. I'm trying to be as conservative with my downvotes as much as I can but with some of the fairly recent posts I can't help but feel a little distasteful about these things.

-1 Knuckles (and by extension all third-party characters)
I don't hate Knuckles as a character. I don't think he has a lack of potential. I think he would be a good candidate to represent the Sonic series, next to Tails. But that's the problem. Knuckles (and any other Sonic character for that matter) is third-party, and I personally feel as if Sonic is enough third-party representation for the game. This is clearly just a personal preference and nothing more, as I think I'm one of the few(?) people who thinks Snake's inclusion in Smash was strange and surreal, even to this day. I've nothing against Snake or how he plays but seeing Solid Snake running around with a bunch of Nintendo characters just seems... off-putting. I'd rather a clone engine slot be used by a Nintendo character rather than a third-party.

-1 Pichu
Time spent on Pichu is time wasted. Project M already has seven PokéReps. If they do decide to add another one, why not choose one that has had some sort of significance on the series as a whole? Like, say, Dragonite.

Maybe it's just me or maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I don't see what Pichu (or "Pichu Bros." for that matter) could bring to the table that other characters already don't.

-1 Knuckles
-1 Pichu

For the same reasons this guy gave.

+1 Ray MK III
+1 Saki
+1 Dark Samus

 

[PlateProp]

The real question is,

Are Pichu and Pichu Bros considered separate?

 

[Insanity's Bane]

Well, first of all, they are only the second two-in-one character. And, while I acknowledge that's not exactly "new," I definently think its a point in Pichu Bros. favor. When you consider that the final Project M Roster can have up to 46 characters, having only one of a character archetype (in this case duos) is pathetically low. Adding just one character of that archetype can alleviate this problem, if only by an extremely small bit. This character can also appeal to a wide range of people. Pichu fans can be happy because he comes back. I acknowledge they are a very small minority, but also consider that making Pichu competitively viable via the Pichu Bros. (this is because they are getting twice the power due there being two of them, but at only regular recoil damage for each Pichu Bro.) could give them the potential to be rather popular among the competitive community due to his archetype having an extremely high learning curve because of the fact you have to ensure the safety of two characters and the fact they are a rarity in Smash Bros. because he is only one of two of his type, as well as the fact that his doubled power (which would likely be a major part of why he is competitively viable) relies on the fact that both Pichu Bro.'s attacks must connect in order for the double power to take effect, which requires substantial reading skill, a high amount of accuracy, and extremely good timing. In addition, he is different enough from both Pikachu and the Ice Climbers to potentially gain more popularity. Obviously, one of the main differences between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is the fact that the Pichu Bros.'s moveset would be almost totally cloned from Pikachu. When seperated, both the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers experience a drop in overall power. However, differences are furthered by the fact that a lone Pichu Bro. could still be somewhat viable, unlike a lone Ice Climber, who, if knocked off stage, practically means death due to his pathetic recovery. This is because Pichu has access to Agility, allowing decent solo recovery. But, to compensate somewhat, and also furthering the Pichu Bros. even more from the Ice Climbers, recovery as a team as the Pichu Bros. would be rather difficult, considering that only one person can grab a ledge, odds are one Pichu Bro. would die as a result of having Agilty as a recovery move. Ice Climbers, however, can both survive due to the way Belay works, if I remember correctly. Once again, this just distances the two pairs even more. Also, when desynched, the Pichu Bros. can still recover when seperated during a desynch due to Agility, whereas with the Ice Climbers it is practically impossible to recover when separated and desyched. This same principle of being able to recover when separated also applies to basic separation, especially when it is forces separation. This makes the Pichu Bros. able recover if knocked off-stage when forcibly separated, unlike the Ice Climbers. When it really comes down to it, the only real similarity between the Pichu Bros. and the Ice Climbers is that both are two-in-one-package characters. The Pichu Bros. would provide a completely different learning experience and play style from the Ice Climbers. In my opinion, these arguments should justify a place for him, but I'll go on in case you doubt it. They are also somewhat different from Pikachu. While the Pichu Bros.' moveset is almost completely cloned from Pikachu's, keep in mind there are two of Pichu, a drastic difference in and of itself. This makes learning to play the Pichu Bros. a completely different experience from learning to play Pikachu. You have to develop new skills and have excellent focus in order to use a two-in-one-character, especially when it comes to desynchs. Desynchs are important to the Ice Climbers, something that would probably carry over into the Pichu Bros. The different skills it takes to use a character that can desynch differentiates using Pikachu and Pichu drastically, and when you consider all the other differences between the two Pokemon, as well as the accuracy and timing it takes for the Pichu Bros.'s double power (something necessary to make it competitively viable) to be used properly, it becomes a completely different learning experience and play style, just like as with the Ice Climbers. Finally, let us not forget Pichu's most unique feature: his self-damage system. Pichu's gimmick is the fact that it hurts itself whenever it attacks, generally speaking. No other character in the entirety of Smash has this gimmick. Putting the Pichu Bros. in Project M brings back this truly unique gimmick, and allows them to create a character that depends on accuracy and timing unlike any other character. This is something very new that they bring to the table, because literally no other character in the game has the gimmick that the Pichu Bros. would have. Technically speaking, since the Pichu Bros. could have the Pichu from Melee as Pichu Little, they could be considered the only characters in Smash with this gimmick. This alone is something incredibly new that they bring to the table. In addition, they can be somewhat unique in that, while being small and fast, they also are rather powerful when it comes to blow-for-blow power. Maybe not necessarily overall power, but certainly blow-for-blow power. I say "somewhat unique" because of Squirtle, who is similar in this respect. Even then, they would only be the second character Project M like this, and to present a small difference between Pichu Bros. and Squirtle in this regard, the Pichu Bros.' wallop only truly kicks in when both a Pichu Bros. are present and both land the hit. So, let's review the new stuff that they bring.

-They're only the second of an uncommon archetype in Smash
-They are completely different from the Ice Climbers, with the only thing they truly have in common is the fact that they are both two-in-one characters
-They provide a completely different learning experience and play style from primarily Pikachu, but also the Ice Climbers
-They would be the only character in Project M to have their unique self-damage gimmick
-They depend on accuracy, timing, and reading skills like no other character, because it is this power that makes it competitively viable
-Unlike the Ice Climbers, they can recover when forcibly separated or when only one Pichu Bro. is left
-They are somewhat unique in the fact that, while being small and fast, they also pack a wallop when it comes to blow-for-blow power
-The difference between their blow-for-blow power and Squirtles's is the fact that the Pichu Bros.' power only truly kicks in when both are present and both land the hit

Overall, I think the Pichu Bros. could bring a lot of new stuff to the table and provide a unique learning experience and play style different not only from Pikachu and the Ice Climbers, but from the entire cast as a whole, because of the unique skills, gimmicks, and differences that they hinge on.

Oh WOW. I really wasn't expecting such a long (and honestly well-thought out) reply like this. I must thank you for explaining how Pichu Bros. could bring something to Smash that other characters don't already. Like I had said, I wasn't really looking too hard on how they be different, so this was a really insightful read.

I suppose with that, I could specify that my downvote is limited to Pichu and not Pichu Bros. then.

Considering the first game in the series, Metal Gear, was on MSX1 and the Nintendo Entertainment System and Shigeru Miyamoto teamed up with Hideo Kojima when Konami created Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes is it really that off putting?

I actually didn't know that factoid about Twin Snakes. But I had mentioned it was off-putting considering the content of the MGS series when compared to Nintendo's flagship franchises. It's just a little jarring.

 

[PlateProp]

Oh WOW. I really wasn't expecting such a long (and honestly well-thought out) reply like this. I must thank you for explaining how Pichu Bros. could bring something to Smash that other characters don't already. Like I had said, I wasn't really looking too hard on how they be different, so this was a really insightful read.

I suppose with that, I could specify that my downvote is limited to Pichu and not Pichu Bros. then.


I actually didn't know that factoid about Twin Snakes. But I had mentioned it was off-putting considering the content of the MGS series when compared to Nintendo's flagship franchises. It's just a little jarring.

Big Boss is king

Can't wait for smash 4 when Sakurai is all liek
"Oh yeah, Snake wasn't able to participate this tiem."
-cue Big Boss climbing a random cliff-
"Instead, Big Boss is here to take his place"

"Kept you waiting huh?"

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Kat and Ana >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pichu Bros.

Gawd I hate Pichu... Actually, there is a story behind why I hate him that my friends would not let me live down for years but yeah...

Wouldn't be opposed to Notched/Spiky Ear Pichu Pika colored Pichu team... :\

Actually, I'm in different all together about Pichu bros but rather them then Pichu Vanilla.

 

[PlateProp]

Hey Shin, I think Pichu Bros should be separate from Just Pichu, cuz it seems people do prefer one over the other.

Also Ukelele Pichu guys, cmon

Edit: actually Ukelele Pichu Bros ftw

 

[U-Throw]

The real question is,

Are Pichu and Pichu Bros considered separate?

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you're asking for. Like, if you're asking if they're separate as in terms of gameplay, or physically separate, as in different characters. I'll try to answer all possible views of this question. Still trying to figure out spoiler tabs. I'll try to spoiler it for length.

Spoiler

 

[PlateProp]

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you're asking for. Like, if you're asking if they're separate as in terms of gameplay, or physically separate, as in different characters. I'll try to answer all possible views of this question. Still trying to figure out spoiler tabs. I'll try to spoiler it for length.
[\spoilers]
1. The Pichu Bros.' members are completely separate entities from Melee's Pichu.
This one really depends on what you consider strong or weak indicators. So, I'll present the facts. Pichu Big is the Pichu with the scruff of hair on the top of his head. This one is very unlikely to be Melee's Pichu, considering Melee's Pichu has no such scruff of hair. However, Pichu Little's (the one without the scruff of hair) voice actor is Satomi Kōrogi, and she also voices Melee's Pichu. This could indicate that they are one and the same. However, it should be noted that Satomi also voices Togepi in the same game, as well as several other major Pokémon in the anime, and even a few humans, such as Mew (From Lucario and the Mystery of Mew), Misty's Togepi and Togetic, Timmy, Marissa, and many minor Pokémon. While a very weak indicator, I've seen a few point out that Melee's Pichu and Pichu Little share the same design. However, this probably should not be taken seriously, as both Pichu Little and Melee's Pichu share the design of a generic Pichu.
In addition, Sakurai stated that part of the reason Pichu was included in Melee (other than the fact that he wanted a joke character) was because he considered Pichu the "mascot" of Gen. II. It should be noted that the Pichu Bros. debuted in the first movie for the Johto region (Gen. II): Pokémon 3: The Movie-Spell of the Unown. Because of the fact that this movie came out well over a year before Melee, and the movie was probably in development even longer before, it is likely that the Pichu's inclusion in Melee took at least a small amount of influence from the Pichu Bros. inclusion in Melee. The fact that Sakurai considered Pichu the mascot of Gen. II may have been because of their starting role in the movie short. However, it is also possible that they were included as a starring role because Sakurai considered them the mascot. This theory is not only arguably more plausible, but it also cuts down the theory that Melee's Pichu is Pichu Little.
However, also note that a majority of the Pokemon selected to be playable had a role in the anime: Pikachu, Lucario, Mewtwo, Charizard (to some extent; immense popularity massivley helped along Charizard, Mewtwo, and Pikachu, but regardless they all had large roll in the anime), even Jigglypuff (though I'm fairly certain she was included because Sakurai wanted a Pokemon that could be cloned; in this case Kirby). Squirtle and Ivysaur were chosen due to nostalgia and some popularity. Melee's Pichu, on the other hand, had neither of these, if I remember correctly. But, Pichu Bros. had a huge role in the anime, so Sakurai may have chosen Pichu Little for Melee because it can also represent the Pichu species as a whole. But, that leaves to question: why not Pichu Big, who could be considered more iconic due to his hair scruff. Both theories are roughly equally plausible. Ultimately, it just comes down to opinion here. I personally, as much as I would like to think they're the same, do not believe they are, due to lack of evidence. It's a Skull Kid-is-the-same-throughout-all-games situation, but unlike Skull Kid, the odds would appear to be stacked against Pichu.

2. Pichu Bros. would be considered too similar to Melee's Pichu to be considered viable/interesting in Project M.
I do not consider this to be true to any extent. I highly doubt you were talking about this, anyway, considering you clearly read my post. I think it provided substantial information on the subject. If, somehow, you forgot what you can read it again above.

3. Pichu Bros. are a spiritual successor to Melee's Pichu.
Definently. It includes a Pichu as both members of the team and it includes either a Melee Pichu lookalike, or Melee Pichu in the flesh, depending on your opinion on Interpretation #1. Their moveset, while being virtually identical to Melee Pichu's, introduces the concept of Pichu becoming a duo via the Pichu Bros. This allows the development of brand new skills and techniques, as well as all new differences being introduced. This allows him to remain as he spiritual successor to Pichu, so he can appeal to his fans, while changing him enough to appeal to competitive fans and be competetivley viable. My previous post contains more information on the subject, but you already read that, so I doubt you were talking about this interpretation either. Either way, I would definently consider him a spiritual successor to Pichu, if not Pichu himself with a partner, depending on what you think Interpretation 1.

We're talking vote wise here.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

@ U-Throw

Type it like this:

[ spoiler ] without the spaces at the beginning and

[ / spoiler ] at the end of the spoiler without the spaces.

 

[UltimateWario]

I think you all know what this means.

Spoiler

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I think you all know what this means.

Spoiler

Someone else pointed out that the leak might be fake since the Mii Fighters aren't there. Of course, someone else also pointed out that Miis could be added to the CSS after making them, but still, it's REALLY suspicious seeing no signs of the Mii Fighters in any of the pictures.

Besides, we're less than a month from the Smash 4 Japanese release, so we only need wait a little longer before we know for sure.

 

[MM3K]

Not to mention the utter chaos of the character placement, I mean all the previous games have had the characters sorted by franchise, why would they order them like that?

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Not to mention the utter chaos of the character placement, I mean all the previous games have had the characters sorted by franchise, why would they order them like that?

Like, why the hell are Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit so far removed from the Mario, Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus characters?

The only clones in Brawl that weren't next to their base were Toon Link and Ganondorf, so that's suspicious.

 

[SoUh^5]

Fox and wolf are no clone.

 

[Shin F.]

The clone placement is really weird, and Yoshi coming smack in the middle of the Mario series characters is off as well. Still, it could be that not everyone is unlocked yet in that image. In Melee, Pikachu was in Luigi's final spot until Luigi got unlocked. Perhaps that's also the case here, where more characters take the place of the ones that are placed oddly.

 

[Anti Guy]

Man if that's real, why does Sakurai keep insisting on Wario being in his WarioWare form? I think we've established that the majority prefer him to be classic wario.

 

[MM3K]

Why would they put Dr. Mario back and not Lucas! this is top-notch cray-cray!

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Really? No one is going to question why the hell Duck Hunt is a character? You guys are more worried about Dr. Mario and character order.

No seriously, nothing about Duck Hunt? Really?

 

[Shin F.]

Really? No one is going to question why the hell Duck Hunt is a character? You guys are more worried about Dr. Mario and character order.

No seriously, nothing about Duck Hunt? Really?

It lines up with another, very convincing leak. And honestly? Given that we got Game & Watch, ROB and Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt's not that out there.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

It lines up with another, very convincing leak. And honestly? Given that we got Game & Watch, ROB and Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt's not that out there.

I don't remember Gematsu or whatever saying anything about Duck Hunt so I'm guessing you're talking about something else.

But really, Duck Hunt? Sakurai has the imagination to not only troll Banjo Kazooie fans by giving Smash Dog and Bird instead of Bear and Bird but he can think of a way to make a blood hound and a mallard do battle BUT CAN'T GIVE LUCINA A ORIGINAL MOVESET !?

w/e bro....

 

[Shin F.]

I don't remember Gematsu or whatever saying anything about Duck Hunt so I'm guessing you're talking about something else.

But really, Duck Hunt? Sakurai has the imagination to not only troll Banjo Kazooie fans by giving Smash Dog and Bird instead of Bear and Bird but he can think of a way to make a blood hound and a mallard do battle BUT CAN'T GIVE LUCINA A ORIGINAL MOVESET !?

w/e bro....

The Ninka-kiwi leak. There are a lot of prominent Smashboards users who gave information supporting it. Gematsu looks like a "My dad works at Nintendo" leak next to this thing. I'll just quote the OP of its thread in the Leaks group so you can see the details.

Spoiler

 

[MM3K]

But even then, why call them Duck Hunt? I mean by the looks of it, they seem to be a team of sorts, why not Dog & Duck or Duck Hunter, and even if the japanese name was Duck Hunt, why would they've bothered to change IC's name back in Melee?

I'm reading too much into this fake leak thing, I'll stop now, I swear.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Lord knows I want Bowser Jr. to be playable but I just can't bring myself to believe those pictures. When Japan gets the game and the initial roster looks like that then cool, if not then oh well.

Sides, someone on SRK's forums pointed out that Game n Watch's hand looks sketchy as hell overlapping Wario's portrait.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

That "leak" is so weird. I've mentioned it before that I kinda want it to happen just for the Duck Hunt Dog fans to have their day, but I'm not comfortable with the idea of Ice Climbers gone and Lucas/Wolf/Snake being sold separately.

I'm also seeing a very strange and funny phenomena happen elsewhere where people have latched on to this so hard without thinking about how nothing's final 'til Sakurai says so.