New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[U-Throw]

That could be interesting. I mean, she's a good character and so is Red, and it's a great idea, but it just seems... unnatural for it to be Red. I always imagined Ashley, if she even made it, to be a spellcaster, but I'm not that familiar with the games, so what do I know. I always thought Red was Ashely's friend, so it seems weird for her to summon him. I mean, I'm still uncomfortable with Rosalina using Lumas as puppets, even if it is cool. Same thing for Waddle Dee Toss, but to a lesser extent, since King Dedede was always a jerk XP.

 

[MM3K]

Actually I think the articles can be reassigned from the base to different attacks. I may be wrong though.

But even then the proposed summoner character could only have up to 4 moves that make use of actual summoning projectile-ish objects. Is it possible that, as said before, the character could make an object appear, say a stick to attack with, would that count as an article?

 

[Marakatu]

Summoner..

Pretty much Jump All Stars (DS) Yamo Yugi.

It's all he did was swing with each normal being a different monster or trap card.

Also, Taikobou.
Bonus points because he actually led an army.

 

[Anti Guy]

That could be interesting. I mean, she's a good character and so is Red, and it's a great idea, but it just seems... unnatural for it to be Red. I always imagined Ashley, if she even made it, to be a spellcaster, but I'm not that familiar with the games, so what do I know. I always thought Red was Ashely's friend, so it seems weird for her to summon him. I mean, I'm still uncomfortable with Rosalina using Lumas as puppets, even if it is cool. Same thing for Waddle Dee Toss, but to a lesser extent, since King Dedede was always a jerk XP.

She could cast spells for a lot of her attacks too. And I'm surprised. You're not uncomfortable with Peach using Toad? That's like the worst it gets.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

But even then the proposed summoner character could only have up to 4 moves that make use of actual summoning projectile-ish objects. Is it possible that, as said before, the character could make an object appear, say a stick to attack with, would that count as an article?

I'm sure that's the case, yeah.

Edit: NVM Shin clarified.

 

[U-Throw]

But even then the proposed summoner character could only have up to 4 moves that make use of actual summoning projectile-ish objects. Is it possible that, as said before, the character could make an object appear, say a stick to attack with, would that count as an article?

Depends. If it operates independently from the character, as in it's behavior it independent from the character, can be reflected (generally speaking), etc., basically, it is not connected to a characters model, then it is an article. If it is connected to a characters model and depends on a characters movement and it's behavior is linked to the character, then it is not an article.

 

[Shin F.]

But even then the proposed summoner character could only have up to 4 moves that make use of actual summoning projectile-ish objects. Is it possible that, as said before, the character could make an object appear, say a stick to attack with, would that count as an article?

You mean like Ness or Lucas' side smash? Things like those are not articles, they're just invisible parts of the model that become visible when being used (other examples include Samus' Morph Ball, Sonic's model when he curls up, and many characters' facial expressions).

You could do something like this on a larger scale for summons on normal attacks. The only difference is that the invisible model would likely have a more complex mesh and bone structure to allow it to have more complex animations.

Depends. If it operates independently from the character, as in it's behavior it independent from the character, can be reflected (generally speaking), etc., basically, it is not connected to a characters model, then it is an article. If it is connected to a characters model and depends on a characters movement and it's behavior is linked to the character, then it is not an article.

Well put.

 

[MM3K]

You mean like Ness or Lucas' side smash? Things like those are not articles, they're just invisible parts of the model that become visible when being used (other examples include Samus' Morph Ball, Sonic's model when he curls up, and many characters' facial expressions).

You could do something like this on a larger scale for summons on normal attacks. The only difference is that the invisible model would likely have a more complex mesh and bone structure and have its own animations.

Oh, I guess something could be made from that, like if it used static objects for some moves (Say a character's nair that involves having an object orbit around it), while having actual summons (ie. Zelda's S4 down-B) as specials or smashes, that sounds rather cool actually, if I'm right with my suppositions, of course.

 

[Shin F.]

Oh, I guess something could be made from that, like if it used static objects for some moves (Say a character's nair that involves having an object orbit around it), while having actual summons (ie. Zelda's S4 down-B) as specials or smashes, that sounds rather cool actually, if I'm right with my suppositions, of course.

Yeah. In fact, there's a Skull Kid PSA on the vault (pretty rough - obviously, anything from PMBR will be of higher quality) that uses Tatl and Tael models in some of its attacks. They, for instance, are not articles as far as I can tell. Notice how whenever they're out, they always either move with Skull Kid, or Skull Kid stays still as they move away for an attack. That's because unlike an article, they're just another part of him. A set of disjointed hitboxes.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah. In fact, there's a Skull Kid PSA on the vault (pretty rough - obviously, anything from PMBR will be of higher quality) that uses Tatl and Tael models in some of its attacks. They, for instance, are not articles as far as I can tell. Notice how whenever they're out, they always either move with Skull Kid, or Skull Kid stays still as they move away for an attack. That's because unlike an article, they're just another part of him. A set of disjointed hitboxes.

A bit rough but pretty neat. The face was totally wrong though. Nightmares.

 

[MM3K]

Yeah. In fact, there's a Skull Kid PSA on the vault (pretty rough - obviously, anything from PMBR will be of higher quality) that uses Tatl and Tael models in some of its attacks. They, for instance, are not articles as far as I can tell. Notice how whenever they're out, they always either move with Skull Kid, or Skull Kid stays still as they move away for an attack. That's because unlike an article, they're just another part of him. A set of disjointed hitboxes.

That look's really cool, of course if the PMDT made it, it would be much better. It kinda makes want to see a character like that now. Thanks for the clarification Shin.

 

[Chaos Wolf]

You mean like Ness or Lucas' side smash? Things like those are not articles, they're just invisible parts of the model that become visible when being used (other examples include Samus' Morph Ball, Sonic's model when he curls up, and many characters' facial expressions).

You could do something like this on a larger scale for summons on normal attacks. The only difference is that the invisible model would likely have a more complex mesh and bone structure to allow it to have more complex animations.

Yeah, and as a result the main summoner would have to have a lower polycount to offset the pricetag of that invisible part. could work without animation if the action is static enough. Say for example Sami's Forward smash called in a Soldier to shoot forward, if the soldier is already kneeling with gun aimed. it could be static enough to simply fire without any additional movement.

I think it makes more sense to leave the summoning to articles and B moves though, and as said before, Snake would be our man if that's the case.

 

[Shin F.]

Yeah, and as a result the main summoner would have to have a lower polycount to offset the pricetag of that invisible part. could work without animation if the action is static enough. Say for example Sami's Forward smash called in a Soldier to shoot forward, if the soldier is already kneeling with gun aimed. it could be static enough to simply fire without any additional movement.

I think it makes more sense to leave the summoning to articles and B moves though, and as said before, Snake would be our man if that's the case.

Yeah, polycount is the one big thing that would hold this back from its full potential. The game only has so much memory. Of course, if the character is a simpler one that requires fewer polygons and the summon wouldn't require many, either...

Spoiler

^ Those two combined - if done right - might not even have a poly count as high as some of the more complex character models, or if they do it wouldn't be by much. I'd be willing to bet they could work.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah, polycount is the one big thing that would hold this back from its full potential. The game only has so much memory. Of course, if the character is a simpler one that requires fewer polygons and the summon wouldn't require many, either...

Spoiler

^ Those two combined - if done right - might not even have a poly count as high as some of the more complex character models, or if they do it wouldn't be by much. I'd be willing to bet they could work.

But I want a cool summoner none of this girl with devil duo, or tank summoner nonsense. I want my badass, rpg esque, magic and summoning.

 

[U-Throw]

Yeah, polycount is the one big thing that would hold this back from its full potential. The game only has so much memory. Of course, if the character is a simpler one that requires fewer polygons and the summon wouldn't require many, either...

Spoiler

^ Those two combined - if done right - might not even have a poly count as high as some of the more complex character models, or if they do it wouldn't be by much. I'd be willing to bet they could work.

Alright! This is a pretty good idea and perspective. Though they might not be the most ideal character for a summoner, they certainly will work and are cool in their own right. You've already converted me to a Ninten supporter, Shin, and it looks like you've done it with Ashley. Well done, Shin, I applaud you!

 

[Cool Blue]

For once, I'm kind of glad my notifications got broken.
I didn't have to sit through a Blackendorf discussion.

As for more recent topics, I would be down for a summoner type fighter.

 

[cmart]

Someone else played that game. Neat. Yeah, Yamo Yugi works really well. I'd be down with that.

But just to see if this is unfeasible now, @ cmart how impossible would a summoner based character as I described here:

be?

It would be a nightmare, but probably technically doable, provided you kept the summons as limited instances that did their thing and went away.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I used to adore the concept of a Yaim-Yugi esque Pokemon Trainer. But I think it still wouldn't do the character justice.

Which is why I would prefer for him to spawn a Pokeball item with say, Blastoise, Venusaur, Charizard, and other 1st gen pokemon inside. He'd obiously only be able to spawn one at a time. Unless he has Pikachu/Pichu by his side to attack for him all the time. XD

Eh... No way he's happening on Project M. Which is why I support him for SSB4 mainly, it's up to Sakurai to set an example of how he would work.

 

[JCOnyx]

FYI, this was the concept that Paper Mario was built around way back when, being able to call in his partners to help him out for certain attacks. You can't get any lower poly than 2D lol

 

[U-Throw]

OK, so I apologize if this is somewhere else on the boards and I'm just behind on leaks, but here goes. Apparently, the remaining 5 clone engine characters are: Skull Kid, Isaac, Knuckles, Sami, and Lyn. Also, ZSS's Light Suit Alt. was leaked. Pics:
Zero Suit Samus Alt.- http://i.imgur.com/KYsvylt.jpg
Sami WIP- http://i.imgur.com/1YavlmG.gif

I know these could be fakes, but they seem awful high-quality to be faked for no reason other than to crush peoples hopes. I really hope at least part of this leak is wrong. I NEED my Pichu Bros., and they had stuff going for them. And this. This really boosted my confidence:
Pichu Leak- http://i.imgur.com/i3qBXHr.png
Look at the date. I know everyone's probably already seen that one, but for those who haven't, there you go. Anyways, hope the leaker is lying about some of those, like most leakers do. Lots of it is plausible and I like, so here's what I hope: Sami is fine. I liked her. Knuckles is pretty good. Good 3rd-party representation. Skull Kid is great. Excellent choice. Lyn, as cool as she is, and as happy as I'd be with her, especially considering the PMDT said they wouldn't use Assist Trophy models, I'd much rather have her cut and replaced with Pichu Bros., especially since it seems unlikely that they would choose her over Ridley, yet still put in Isaac. After all, M is for Melee, and Pichu is from Melee. Isaac is find, and I actually believe he would make it in, but I think I might want him cut for Ridley or especially Sukapon. But whatever, Isaac is just as good if not even better. Basically, I'm fine with every character in the leak but Lyn, because I want Pichu Bros. I have faith that the leaker is lying, and will hold on to that belief until proven wrong.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Eh I don't really believe it, but dang that Sami model!

Skull Kid: Never understood this guy's appeal.
Isaac: Freakin awesome!
Knuckles: I'll believe it when I see it. Knuckles is one of if not perhaps my favorite Sonic character.
Sami: I was initially 100% ProAndy, but now that I've seen that model, I think I support Sami more.:D
Lyn: .... eh, Fire Emblem is overrated. But whatever, at least Lyn isn't an unbearable choice. Would MUCH rather have Takamaru for katana user, and in 2nd place Samurai Goroh. But I guess you can't like 'em all, and this clone roster is 3/5 awesome.

And I'd cut Lyn for Pichu bros, because Fire Emblem getting TWO clone roster spots.... yeah, not in love with that idea.

edit: Oh, just figured out that If I'd trade Lyn for Pichu bros, then it'd be Pokemon getting a 2nd Clone roster spot.
....then again Pichu is a vet, and returning revamped sounds much more enticing than another FE sword user.

I take it back, and I rather that spot go to Takamaru or Ninten.

 

[Anti Guy]

OK, so I apologize if this is somewhere else on the boards and I'm just behind on leaks, but here goes. Apparently, the remaining 5 clone engine characters are: Skull Kid, Isaac, Knuckles, Sami, and Lyn. Also, ZSS's Light Suit Alt. was leaked. Pics:
Zero Suit Samus Alt.- http://i.imgur.com/KYsvylt.jpg
Sami WIP- http://i.imgur.com/1YavlmG.gif

I know these could be fakes, but they seem awful high-quality to be faked for no reason other than to crush peoples hopes. I really hope at least part of this leak is wrong. I NEED my Pichu Bros., and they had stuff going for them. And this. This really boosted my confidence:
Pichu Leak- http://i.imgur.com/i3qBXHr.png
Look at the date. I know everyone's probably already seen that one, but for those who haven't, there you go. Anyways, hope the leaker is lying about some of those, like most leakers do. Lots of it is plausible and I like, so here's what I hope: Sami is fine. I liked her. Knuckles is pretty good. Good 3rd-party representation. Skull Kid is great. Excellent choice. Lyn, as cool as she is, and as happy as I'd be with her, especially considering the PMDT said they wouldn't use Assist Trophy models, I'd much rather have her cut and replaced with Pichu Bros., especially since it seems unlikely that they would choose her over Ridley, yet still put in Isaac. After all, M is for Melee, and Pichu is from Melee. Isaac is find, and I actually believe he would make it in, but I think I might want him cut for Ridley or especially Sukapon. But whatever, Isaac is just as good if not even better. Basically, I'm fine with every character in the leak but Lyn, because I want Pichu Bros. I have faith that the leaker is lying, and will hold on to that belief until proven wrong.

I think you're behind. The leak was from like last fall I think.

 

[PlateProp]

OK, so I apologize if this is somewhere else on the boards and I'm just behind on leaks, but here goes. Apparently, the remaining 5 clone engine characters are: Skull Kid, Isaac, Knuckles, Sami, and Lyn. Also, ZSS's Light Suit Alt. was leaked. Pics:
Zero Suit Samus Alt.- http://i.imgur.com/KYsvylt.jpg
Sami WIP- http://i.imgur.com/1YavlmG.gif

I know these could be fakes, but they seem awful high-quality to be faked for no reason other than to crush peoples hopes. I really hope at least part of this leak is wrong. I NEED my Pichu Bros., and they had stuff going for them. And this. This really boosted my confidence:
Pichu Leak- http://i.imgur.com/i3qBXHr.png
Look at the date. I know everyone's probably already seen that one, but for those who haven't, there you go. Anyways, hope the leaker is lying about some of those, like most leakers do. Lots of it is plausible and I like, so here's what I hope: Sami is fine. I liked her. Knuckles is pretty good. Good 3rd-party representation. Skull Kid is great. Excellent choice. Lyn, as cool as she is, and as happy as I'd be with her, especially considering the PMDT said they wouldn't use Assist Trophy models, I'd much rather have her cut and replaced with Pichu Bros., especially since it seems unlikely that they would choose her over Ridley, yet still put in Isaac. After all, M is for Melee, and Pichu is from Melee. Isaac is find, and I actually believe he would make it in, but I think I might want him cut for Ridley or especially Sukapon. But whatever, Isaac is just as good if not even better. Basically, I'm fine with every character in the leak but Lyn, because I want Pichu Bros. I have faith that the leaker is lying, and will hold on to that belief until proven wrong.

The M in project M is not for melee, it's just a reference.

But this is old news, way back from when the clone engine first leaked and was broken as hell or something. Other than the pichu guy

 

[Exodo]

OK, so I apologize if this is somewhere else on the boards and I'm just behind on leaks, but here goes. Apparently, the remaining 5 clone engine characters are: Skull Kid, Isaac, Knuckles, Sami, and Lyn. Also, ZSS's Light Suit Alt. was leaked. Pics:
Zero Suit Samus Alt.- http://i.imgur.com/KYsvylt.jpg
Sami WIP- http://i.imgur.com/1YavlmG.gif

I know these could be fakes, but they seem awful high-quality to be faked for no reason other than to crush peoples hopes. I really hope at least part of this leak is wrong. I NEED my Pichu Bros., and they had stuff going for them. And this. This really boosted my confidence:
Pichu Leak- http://i.imgur.com/i3qBXHr.png
Look at the date. I know everyone's probably already seen that one, but for those who haven't, there you go. Anyways, hope the leaker is lying about some of those, like most leakers do. Lots of it is plausible and I like, so here's what I hope: Sami is fine. I liked her. Knuckles is pretty good. Good 3rd-party representation. Skull Kid is great. Excellent choice. Lyn, as cool as she is, and as happy as I'd be with her, especially considering the PMDT said they wouldn't use Assist Trophy models, I'd much rather have her cut and replaced with Pichu Bros., especially since it seems unlikely that they would choose her over Ridley, yet still put in Isaac. After all, M is for Melee, and Pichu is from Melee. Isaac is find, and I actually believe he would make it in, but I think I might want him cut for Ridley or especially Sukapon. But whatever, Isaac is just as good if not even better. Basically, I'm fine with every character in the leak but Lyn, because I want Pichu Bros. I have faith that the leaker is lying, and will hold on to that belief until proven wrong.

why leakers, why you do this!!! now i wont be able to sleep till something is proved!!!!!

btw: i hope Pichu is a thing and not Lyn or Sami.

 

[| Kailex |]

btw: i hope Pichu dies and Lyn and sami get in

 

[Exodo]

btw: i hope Pichu dies and Lyn and sami get in

Spoiler

y u no love me?

 

[| Kailex |]

Seriously, I dont give a **** about pichu, Id choose qt girls over him any day.

 

[MM3K]

I agree, Pichu (even if pichu bros is something that's possible) is not as interesting as either Sami or Lyn could be.

 

[PlateProp]

I agree, Pichu (even if pichu bros is something that's possible) is not as interesting as either Sami or Lyn could be.

You say thatZ

But then Ukelele Pichu bashes you over the head with his uber ukelele masterpiece

And then your character just SD's cause it can't handle that Pichu is good at something 8D

 

[Anti Guy]

While I'd understand why if Pichu gets in, and that a lot of people would be thrilled.. I'd barely feel anything on my hype meter, personally.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Pichu is like the Project M Geno. Why is this character so ridiculously requested in the face of everything else only to further saturate the roster with more Pokemon characters? People get mad/anti-hype about the idea of another Fire Emblem character, Mario character, Sonic character, or Mother character but Pichu's suddenly an amazing pick why?

Skull Kid is just a total "what" to me. Why him? Because of Majora's Mask hype? That game is good and all but the character just feels like a awkward addition. Same with Knuckles. I always thought that the PMDT would be better off staying away from extra third party content since it would bring another studio into the anti PM legal squadron that could assemble if the right toes were stepped on.

Lyn is cool but everyone knows I'd either prefer a situation where Takamaru gets a playable role over Lyn or both could be added. Since we know that the latter won't happen unless the Project M casual fan base is waaaaaaaaay better than the Smash 4 fan base and their parroting of "no more swords", I'm in a position where it sounds like I'm opposed to Lyn but in reality I just want BOTH of my neglected Katana characters badly.

Issac and Sami are excellent additions and two of the best new character outcomes overall.

 

[GeZ]

Skull Kid is just a total "what" to me.

Please understand.

Why him?

PLEASE UNDERSTAND.

Because of Majora's Mask hype?

PLEASE UNDERSTAND!

That game is good and all but-

I don't think you understand.

 

[U-Throw]

Really? I mean, I can understand, but Pichu is a veteran. I believe Pichu, as irrelevant as he is, deserves a spot in PM if only because he's a veteran. Jigglypuff is incredibly irrelevant, but if she got left behind, there would be far more outrage because she's one of the original 12. Pichu is more relevant if only because he's related to Pikachu, and he's a veteran, and even though he's not from the original 12, he's from the game Project M was created around, and in my opinion that should more than reserve a spot for him. Also, with the Pichu Bros., you're getting an iconic, memorable anime characters, and in the process bringing back a Melee veteran that a surprisingly large amount of casual people like, but revamped to be competitively viable so competetive players like him as well, and representing an underused character archetype that some people like: Two-in-one characters. And, by giving him the ability to SoPo, Melee fans can play as regular Pichu. It makes far more since than a generic Plusle & Minun because the Pichu Bros. are rather well known, takes up less time and is easier on the PMDT due to easier model editing for Pichu Big and less voice clip space since they can share, and for PraiMai fans you can include a Plusle & Minun-like palette swap/Alt. Costume cosplay. Everybody wins.
I understand your dislike for Pichu. In Melee, I liked the character, just not the way he was implemented. I really want Sami because we can represent an obscure series and put in a really sexy cool character, but Fire Emblem has 3 characters as it is. Lyn, while cool, just doesn't live up to the potential other characters can. In my opinion, four FE characters in Sm4sh is pushing it, and three is just right for PM. I don't think we need another FE rep. And, yes, Pokemon is an very over-saturated series, but adding Lyn makes FE saturated, especially since Lyn brings almost nothing new, unlike the Pichu Bros. I just feel like the Pichu Bros. can bring more to the table due to the whole Two-In-One deal than Lyn, can appeal to a far larger group of people, and would be easier on the PMDT due to an almost completely duplicated MoveSet, a complete set of voice clips that can be shared, a simpler model (PMDT said they wouldn't use AT models), and overall more importance due to their roles in the anime and in Melee, and the vast sea of duplicatable animations.

 

[Anti Guy]

Really? I mean, I can understand, but Pichu is a veteran. I believe Pichu, as irrelevant as he is, deserves a spot in PM if only because he's a veteran. Jigglypuff is incredibly irrelevant, but if she got left behind, there would be far more outrage because she's one of the original 12. Pichu is more relevant if only because he's related to Pikachu, and he's a veteran, and even though he's not from the original 12, he's from the game Project M was created around, and in my opinion that should more than reserve a spot for him. Also, with the Pichu Bros., you're getting an iconic, memorable anime characters, and in the process bringing back a Melee veteran that a surprisingly large amount of casual people like, but revamped to be competitively viable so competetive players like him as well, and representing an underused character archetype that some people like: Two-in-one characters. And, by giving him the ability to SoPo, Melee fans can play as regular Pichu. It makes far more since than a generic Plusle & Minun because the Pichu Bros. are rather well known, takes up less time and is easier on the PMDT due to easier model editing for Pichu Big and less voice clip space since they can share, and for PraiMai fans you can include a Plusle & Minun-like palette swap/Alt. Costume cosplay. Everybody wins.
I understand your dislike for Pichu. In Melee, I liked the character, just not the way he was implemented. I really want Sami because we can represent an obscure series and put in a really sexy cool character, but Fire Emblem has 3 characters as it is. Lyn, while cool, just doesn't live up to the potential other characters can. In my opinion, four FE characters in Sm4sh is pushing it, and three is just right for PM. I don't think we need another FE rep. And, yes, Pokemon is an very over-saturated series, but adding Lyn makes FE saturated, especially since Lyn brings almost nothing new, unlike the Pichu Bros. I just feel like the Pichu Bros. can bring more to the table due to the whole Two-In-One deal than Lyn, can appeal to a far larger group of people, and would be easier on the PMDT due to an almost completely duplicated MoveSet, a complete set of voice clips that can be shared, a simpler model (PMDT said they wouldn't use AT models), and overall more importance due to their roles in the anime and in Melee, and the vast sea of duplicatable animations.

Yes, that's all correct. I think some of the things we learned, and that's clearly obvious from the whole lifespan of the thread are these:

1. Pichu is only wanted by a minority. We already know a lot of these players want Pichu back because he was in Melee.
2. This minority is EXTREMELY vocal, despite being a minority.
3. The rest (the majority) not only do not want Pichu, they really don't want Pichu (evident by his anti-votes).

So what will happen if Pichu does get announced will be easily predictable. There will be lots of hype from the minority that wanted him (yet I can't imagine it being more than Roy or Mewtwo). Then the PMBR can be like "Finally, they can stop bugging us." The rest of the reception will be lukewarm at best.. maybe stir up some interest ("Eh, I'll probably try it out least."). His popularity on the tournament scene is unpredictable -- it depends on how good they make him -- but I'm going to guess it's still going to be worse towards the tail-end of all the characters even after a significant amount of time for adjustments. If the overall reception is lukewarm or very hypeless, then they really shouldn't be surprised. Attitudes towards Pichu are one of the most obvious things from this thread.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Please understand.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND!

I don't think you understand.

I really really really try hard to, trust me. I hate being "that guy" in roster discussions, but the large majority of the stuff mentioned there would do nothing for me really. Pichu, Skull Kid and Knucles read like a list of Assist Trophies compared to Lyn, Issac and Sami alone, let alone a good batch of the mentioned clone engine potentials.

Really? I mean, I can understand, but Pichu is a veteran. I believe Pichu, as irrelevant as he is, deserves a spot in PM if only because he's a veteran. Jigglypuff is incredibly irrelevant, but if she got left behind, there would be far more outrage because she's one of the original 12. Pichu is more relevant if only because he's related to Pikachu, and he's a veteran, and even though he's not from the original 12, he's from the game Project M was created around, and in my opinion that should more than reserve a spot for him. Also, with the Pichu Bros., you're getting an iconic, memorable anime characters, and in the process bringing back a Melee veteran that a surprisingly large amount of casual people like, but revamped to be competitively viable so competetive players like him as well, and representing an underused character archetype that some people like: Two-in-one characters. And, by giving him the ability to SoPo, Melee fans can play as regular Pichu. It makes far more since than a generic Plusle & Minun because the Pichu Bros. are rather well known, takes up less time and is easier on the PMDT due to easier model editing for Pichu Big and less voice clip space since they can share, and for PraiMai fans you can include a Plusle & Minun-like palette swap/Alt. Costume cosplay. Everybody wins.
I understand your dislike for Pichu. In Melee, I liked the character, just not the way he was implemented. I really want Sami because we can represent an obscure series and put in a really sexy cool character, but Fire Emblem has 3 characters as it is. Lyn, while cool, just doesn't live up to the potential other characters can. In my opinion, four FE characters in Sm4sh is pushing it, and three is just right for PM. I don't think we need another FE rep. And, yes, Pokemon is an very over-saturated series, but adding Lyn makes FE saturated, especially since Lyn brings almost nothing new, unlike the Pichu Bros. I just feel like the Pichu Bros. can bring more to the table due to the whole Two-In-One deal than Lyn, can appeal to a far larger group of people, and would be easier on the PMDT due to an almost completely duplicated MoveSet, a complete set of voice clips that can be shared, a simpler model (PMDT said they wouldn't use AT models), and overall more importance due to their roles in the anime and in Melee, and the vast sea of duplicatable animations.

If there's honestly one thing Sakurai did right in transitions between games it was to never look at Dr. Mario or Pichu again as real characters. Pichu's defining gimmick was being a smaller, lighter Pikachu with a masochism mechanic. The Project M team could take the character and do a wild amount of things with him as they are not bound to Sakurai's design, but after a certain point, the amount of design that'd go into Pichu to make it the neo-Pichu (Pichu Bros; by the way, are these even referenced in the Brawl materials? If this happens without being referenced there, I'd honestly take that as a sign of them losing the plot much like how I don't get why Castlevania material exists in the game with the Dracula stage) you're suggesting sounds like time better spent on an original from a non-represented franchise.

The casual fan base latches on to any number of things at a time and honestly, if you give them a good enough showing from any character, they'd be sold once the game is in their hands. Pichu's popularity is only because people feel like they must have the things back that were "taken" from them moreso than anything else.

Furthermore, I actually share your sentiments re:Lyn somewhat which is why as of late I've begun to support Takamaru a smidge over her. This way, the katana user niche is filled by someone who brings a new franchise and aesthetic to the group over filling up the Fire Emblem squad further. Takamaru also diversifies himself from other sword characters by being adept with a mixed set of projectiles. That said, I'd still bet that Lyn would bring more to the table from a game play design than Pichu would given his previous incarnation, the continued existance of Pikachu (and thus a better/more consistent and stable version of Pichu's old moveset), and the continually understated amount of potential draw and sheathe sword play has in a Smash environment when paired with her acrobatics and speed.

 

[GeZ]

I agree with everything in your post except for Skullkid being assist trophy ish. He has so much potential to be a cool magic based character. His aesthetic is cool, and there's tons of room for figuring out what his moveset could be based on everything that happens in majoras mask. Plus, he's the original duckface.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I agree with everything in your post except for Skullkid being assist trophy ish. He has so much potential to be a cool magic based character. His aesthetic is cool, and there's tons of room for figuring out what his moveset could be based on everything that happens in majoras mask. Plus, he's the original duckface.

Actually come to think of it, if we're just talking from a game play angle, I think I'd be cool with Skull Kid if he plays up transformations and just trolls the **** out of everything.

 

[MM3K]

I think there are a lot of characters that could fill the duo dynamic, that while taking more time to develop, would cause a more considerable amount of hype, Pichu for the sake of Pichu alone, in my opinion does not make it worth it, if people really want a lighter, masochistic Pikachu, the PMDT should make it a Pikachu-EX kind of deal (like regular fighting games [ie CVS1] you can select an alternate version of the character [ie Ryu loses supers other than Shinkuu Hadoken, but gains more strength in his normals]), it's done before with Giga Bowser and SoPo, how hard could it be to add in something like that?

 

[Marakatu]

Since we are at it, why is Sami more requested than Andy? I mean, I've never played Advance Wars, but I see Andy pretty much everywhere. Is Sami a deuteragonist or something?

 

[U-Throw]

Yes, that's all correct. I think some of the things we learned, and that's clearly obvious from the whole lifespan of the thread are these:

1. Pichu is only wanted by a minority. We already know a lot of these players want Pichu back because he was in Melee.
2. This minority is EXTREMELY vocal, despite being a minority.
3. The rest (the majority) not only do not want Pichu, they really don't want Pichu (evident by his anti-votes).

So what will happen if Pichu does get announced will be easily predictable. There will be lots of hype from the minority that wanted him (yet I can't imagine it being more than Roy or Mewtwo). Then the PMBR can be like "Finally, they can stop bugging us." The rest of the reception will be lukewarm at best.. maybe stir up some interest ("Eh, I'll probably try it out least."). His popularity on the tournament scene is unpredictable -- it depends on how good they make him -- but I'm going to guess it's still going to be worse towards the tail-end of all the characters even after a significant amount of time for adjustments. If the overall reception is lukewarm or very hypeless, then they really shouldn't be surprised. Attitudes towards Pichu are one of the most obvious things from this thread.

You're right about that. But, think about it. According to the leak, if it's even true, they are adding the Pichu BROS. That's a duo like the Ice Climbers. That's completely revamping the character. I mean, as far as revamps go, that's pretty much the upper limit. I can't read minds, but I would think a change as drastic as that would be enough to hype up a lot of the community. The again, you are guys are part of the community, and you're not hyped, which I can understand, so this argument might be invalid, but I'll just put this out there anyway.

I really really really try hard to, trust me. I hate being "that guy" in roster discussions, but the large majority of the stuff mentioned there would do nothing for me really. Pichu, Skull Kid and Knucles read like a list of Assist Trophies compared to Lyn, Issac and Sami alone, let alone a good batch of the mentioned clone engine potentials.



If there's honestly one thing Sakurai did right in transitions between games it was to never look at Dr. Mario or Pichu again as real characters. Pichu's defining gimmick was being a smaller, lighter Pikachu with a masochism mechanic. The Project M team could take the character and do a wild amount of things with him as they are not bound to Sakurai's design, but after a certain point, the amount of design that'd go into Pichu to make it the neo-Pichu (Pichu Bros; by the way, are these even referenced in the Brawl materials? If this happens without being referenced there, I'd honestly take that as a sign of them losing the plot much like how I don't get why Castlevania material exists in the game with the Dracula stage) you're suggesting sounds like time better spent on an original from a non-represented franchise.

The casual fan base latches on to any number of things at a time and honestly, if you give them a good enough showing from any character, they'd be sold once the game is in their hands. Pichu's popularity is only because people feel like they must have the things back that were "taken" from them moreso than anything else.

Furthermore, I actually share your sentiments re:Lyn somewhat which is why as of late I've begun to support Takamaru a smidge over her. This way, the katana user niche is filled by someone who brings a new franchise and aesthetic to the group over filling up the Fire Emblem squad further. Takamaru also diversifies himself from other sword characters by being adept with a mixed set of projectiles. That said, I'd still bet that Lyn would bring more to the table from a game play design than Pichu would given his previous incarnation, the continued existance of Pikachu (and thus a better/more consistent and stable version of Pichu's old moveset), and the continually understated amount of potential draw and sheathe sword play has in a Smash environment when paired with her acrobatics and speed.

Right, but remember, the leak said Pichu BROS. This could bring a lot to the table. I'm not sure what you mean by "Brawl Materials," so I'm gonna guess and assume you mean content in the game. While there is no Pichu Bros. content, I don't believe, there is a Pichu trophy and Plusle & Minun would appear to have been planned as duo like Pichu Bros. Also, there was no Roy content, I don't think, but he made it in, so Pichu Bros. definitely can. The Pichu Bros., in my opinion, would bring more because they are only the second of their type. Lyn would the third (Marth and Roy). Also, I can agree with you that Takamaru would be a slightly better choice than Lyn.