New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[PsionicSabreur]

So how likely is it that some sort of new voting rule will be put into effect? It seemed like there was some support but then the subject just got dropped.

Edit: Speaking of good post counts...

 

[Anti Guy]

So how likely is it that some sort of new voting rule will be put into effect? It seemed like there was some support but then the subject just got dropped.

Edit: Speaking of good post counts...

Done. OP edited.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

I'm going to redo my voting for the new format, so I'm just going to say disregard my previous votes, although some might be the same.


+1:
K Rool: DK needs another rep and Dixie Kong is most likely going to be in Smash 4
Dark Samus: Metroid needs another rep and Ridley is most likely going to be in Smash 4. Also, I just love Dark Samus
Ganondorf/Black Shadow: In my own wished, I would hope Ganonmoves goes to Black Shadow, and then Ike moves go to Ganon (Aside from Aether and Counter), and then Ike gets a moveset based on Character Action Hack 'n' Slashes like Devil May Cry 1, 3, or 4 or Bayonetta or Wonderful 101, but that's probably not happening, so I'm satisfied with Just Ganondorf/Black Shadow. I just hope Ganondorf gets to wield Ghirahim with this moveset.
Wolf Link: Zelda might not be under represented, but adding another character won't overrepresent it. Moveset based on both Twilight Princess and other games' wolves, like Amaterasu from Okami. Incredibly Unique moveset for this game (But that could be seen as a con for the developers)
Sukapon: Great idea for a Retro Character, easy to make moveset (Could have moves from all the different Mechs in his game). Could end up very interesting.

+1/2:
Isaac: Too likely to be in Smash 4 for me to give him a full vote
Ridley: See Isaac. If he's not in SSB4, I'll take him over Dark Samus
Dixie Kong: See Isaac. If she's not in SSB4, I'll take her over K. Rool

Neutral (+0 votes):
Bowser Jr.: Could be cool, but Mario is properly represented as is. Also, likely to be in SSB4
Paper Mario: Would love him, but again, Mario has enough representatives (Might change him to half vote later...)
Samurai Goroh: F-Zero doesn't NEED a new character, but I would be okay with it if he got in
Claus/Masked Man: Mother is already over-represented as it is, but he would be cool to play as if we don't get Isaac.
Lyn: Fire Emblem has enough representatives, but I wouldn't mind if she got in, although I don't feel she'd be unique enough for me to give her any kind of vote.
Hector: See Lyn
Andy: I'm just indifferent to Advance Wars characters. Love the games (Played a little bit of Famicom Wars too one time when I was bored) but I don't really care to see them in the roster.
Sami: See Andy
Saki: Like Andy, I like Sin and Punishment, but don't care enough to see him in the game.
Tom Nook: I liked Sakurai's original idea that Animal Crossing was too peaceful to have characters in a fighting game, so I'm sticking with that. Also I think that any moveset we create for him would look unprofessional

-1:
Plusle and Minun: Popo and Nana take up 2 character slots in the coding, so I doubt this would be any different, we also already have enough Pokemon
Pichu: Already have enough Pokemon and I wouldn't want to see a joke character brought back.
Tails: Last thing we need is more Sonic characters
Knuckles: See Tails
Shadow: See Knuckles
Krystal: We also don't need more Starfox, let alone one of the most hated characters in the series. Also represents where the series's story took a turn from good story to furry pandering
Waluigi: An all-round terrible character and doesn't really deserve to be representing Mario over other characters, and at 6 reps, Mario doesn't need any more reps, but I'll leave the other Mario characters Neutral because I wouldn't mind seeing another Mario Character. It's just, if I do, it better not be Waluigi.
Toad: or Toad. Generic as Hell.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Isaac: Too likely to be in Smash 4 for me to give him a full vote
Ridley: See Isaac. If he's not in SSB4, I'll take him over Dark Samus
Dixie Kong: See Isaac. If she's not in SSB4, I'll take her over K. Rool

If you're worried about wasting a vote on someone who is likely to be in Smash 4, don't be. If they make it into Smash 4 they'll be disqualified anyways and your vote will be freed without penalty, unless I'm mistaken. If you mean that they are just a worse choice for you because of that, just ignore me.

 

[Anti Guy]

Wolf Link: Zelda might not be under represented, but adding another character won't overrepresent it. Moveset based on both Twilight Princess and other games' wolves, like Amaterasu from Okami. Incredibly Unique moveset for this game (But that could be seen as a con for the developers)

I'll say that even with me having no modding background, Wolf Link would be virtually impossible to add.

And what PsionicSabreur said. Ignore the SSB4 chances because if that happens, then that happens.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

I'll say that even with me having no modding background, Wolf Link would be virtually impossible to add.

And what PsionicSabreur said. Ignore the SSB4 chances because if that happens, then that happens.

I guess with those Half votes, I more meant, if the people I +1'd were in SSB4, I would Upgrade those votes. I just worded it... very... very poorly.

And can you tell me what exactly is wrong with Wolf Link that he'd be impossible?

 

[Anti Guy]

I guess with those Half votes, I more meant, if the people I +1'd were in SSB4, I would Upgrade those votes. I just worded it... very... very poorly.

And can you tell me what exactly is wrong with Wolf Link that he'd be impossible?

His body. There's no character even remotely close. The closest would probably be Ivysaur, and that's still very iffy. Generally speaking, the further away you go from humanoid body types, the harder it's going to be. It would be all kinds of difficult to animate him... so basically you're voting for a character with a 0% chance, and I mean that quite literally. Not a 1% chance or even a 0.1% chance. A 0% chance.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

His body. There's no character even remotely close. The closest would probably be Ivysaur, and that's still very iffy. Generally speaking, the further away you go from humanoid body types, the harder it's going to be. It would be all kinds of difficult to animate him... so basically you're voting for a character with a 0% chance, and I mean that quite literally. Not a 1% chance or even a 0.1% chance. A 0% chance.

B-But Muh Dreams D: . Oh well, I'll think on it and decide a fifth +1 vote later.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

My vote still stands even tho there was an update. Anyways here's my prediction: explanations are short cause its like almost midnight.

Pichu: This is a mod dedicated to melee, so i'd be surprised if he didn't get in.
Dixie Kong: Easy clone and because strong bad, even tho I'd be meh at the inclusion.
Lyn: Semi-ish clone, Can have an awesome moveset, and is m2k approved.
Isaac: This one just because he's popular, he may be hard-ish to do, but i think the PMBR will do 2 hard-ish characters to develop.
Ridley: See Isaac, also because people have been wanting him since melee, so he'd be like the last hype character they'd reveal.

Assuming they'd actually want to use the open slots....lol.

 

[Fortress]

His body. There's no character even remotely close. The closest would probably be Ivysaur, and that's still very iffy. Generally speaking, the further away you go from humanoid body types, the harder it's going to be. It would be all kinds of difficult to animate him... so basically you're voting for a character with a 0% chance, and I mean that quite literally. Not a 1% chance or even a 0.1% chance. A 0% chance.

Granted it would be incredibly difficult to animate, there's at least a possible moveset. I mean, vine whip can easily be Midna's... hair... whatever it is. Normals can be chomps and swipes, all that sort of thing. Heck, it'd be like the LoZ version of the Ice Climbers. I mean, the potential for a moveset is at least there. You have to give it that much.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

Granted it would be incredibly difficult to animate, there's at least a possible moveset. I mean, vine whip can easily be Midna's... hair... whatever it is. Normals can be chomps and swipes, all that sort of thing. Heck, it'd be like the LoZ version of the Ice Climbers. I mean, the potential for a moveset is at least there. You have to give it that much.

My idea would have Midna and Wolf Link technically be the same model with them being connected, not seperate. But yeah, my idea for a recovery was Midna's Hair Hand.

 

[Chzrm3]

My vote still stands even tho there was an update. Anyways here's my prediction: explanations are short cause its like almost midnight.

Pichu: This is a mod dedicated to melee, so i'd be surprised if he didn't get in.
Dixie Kong: Easy clone and because strong bad, even tho I'd be meh at the inclusion.
Lyn: Semi-ish clone, Can have an awesome moveset, and is m2k approved.
Isaac: This one just because he's popular, he may be hard-ish to do, but i think the PMBR will do 2 hard-ish characters to develop.
Ridley: See Isaac, also because people have been wanting him since melee, so he'd be like the last hype character they'd reveal.

Assuming they'd actually want to use the open slots....lol.

I honestly feel like this is the perfect line-up. Isaac and Lyn are fan favorites, Ridley and Dixie would rep two really important franchises that are both sitting at only 2 reps, and Pichu is just cash money.

Something about those choices all combined makes them feel right. It's hard to put my finger on why... I guess because it really is a 'something for everybody' set of characters?

It also seems very feasible, with Pichu, Dixie and Lyn all being characters that the PMBR could definitely do with what we know about the Clone Engine. Isaac and Ridley are tough, but the PMBR's style is usually to code a blazing trail through any difficulties.... like when they realized they couldn't add new characters, so they spent years perfecting a process for adding new characters.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Guess I'll update my votes after the rule change. Maybe it's too early and I'll end up regretting it but it's okay since this is all mostly for fun anyway.

PLUS

-Ridley

-Toad (by the way thanks for linking to my post in the update Anti Guy)

-Ganondorf / Black Shadow

-Sukapon

I'll choose my 5th full vote later

HALF:

-Samurai Goroh

-Waluigi

-Dixie

-Masked Man (silent and mysterious to both make him cool and cut back on his potential spoiler-ness)

-Kamek (Yoshi's lonely without other reps )

-Isaac

-Pichu (I was indifferent until I saw Dettadeus' post. I played Crusade for about a week about half a year ago before deleting it off my computer but if that's what he's done since then with Pichu I have to give him props for being creative. Still don't like him enough to be a full vote, though, since PMBR won't really base work off of other people like Dettadeus.)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I forgot a 1/2 vote for Ninten, another possible Mother rep. He could basically be a slightly smaller Ness visually (he'd still use that one commercial's scarf to help him look unique) with different specials (like taking Ana's PK Beam, as well as using moves like Quick Up and 4th-D Slip. Also he could implement some other Mother weapons in his specials like the boomerang).

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

My vote still stands even tho there was an update. Anyways here's my prediction: explanations are short cause its like almost midnight.

Pichu: This is a mod dedicated to melee, so i'd be surprised if he didn't get in.
Dixie Kong: Easy clone and because strong bad, even tho I'd be meh at the inclusion.
Lyn: Semi-ish clone, Can have an awesome moveset, and is m2k approved.
Isaac: This one just because he's popular, he may be hard-ish to do, but i think the PMBR will do 2 hard-ish characters to develop.
Ridley: See Isaac, also because people have been wanting him since melee, so he'd be like the last hype character they'd reveal.

Assuming they'd actually want to use the open slots....lol.

Love this lineup. I'm torn between Goroh and Lyn, but I digress.

I would totally love to see this happen!

 

[dettadeus]

Another thing that makes me mad is people saying Pichu was a joke character. Anyone who says that is biased and needs to do their research.

Pichu was Junichi Masuda's favorite Pokémon all the way until 5th gen, when Victini took its place. It was also basically the only 2nd gen Pokémon to get vast popularity and advertisement through other media like the anime (other than Togepi, which ended up being a pokeball). Even if it was roster fluff, it wasn't blatant cloning with little reason, just like any other freaking clone that was coded in Melee. Saying Pichu is a joke character is saying that every clone was a joke character as well.

Also, the idea that there are too many Pokémon reps is partially the fault of the PMBR for splitting the Trainer into three different characters. Regardless of whether it was a good idea, that's the only reason the Pokémon reps seem inflated, other than having the most rep changes from Melee to Brawl.

 

[Fortress]

Who cares, Pichu sucked. Even Melee the game thought low of it. It's even awful in the games it stars in. Hell, it's awful in the card game, too.

Pft. Baby Pokemon and their energy fetch crap.

 

[dettadeus]

Who cares, Pichu sucked. Even Melee the game thought low of it. It's even awful in the games it stars in. Hell, it's awful in the card game, too.

Pft. Baby Pokemon and their energy fetch crap.

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle and Ivysaur are all terrible Pokémon competitively in the games and TCG, and Charizard was lackluster competitively until 6th gen. Obviously nobody cares about them. They were all bad in Brawl except for Pikachu, who is the company mascot and obviously has to be good according to logic.

 

[Fortress]

Ivysaur [...] terrible Pokémon competitively in the games and TCG

Excuse me?

Please. Sleep Powder for two [energy] and twenty damage, no flippies involved. Yes, Vine Whip is pretty tiny for its forty damage off of three energy, but, come on. No flippies for sleep, plus damage.

Plus, Tangrowth? C'mon. Hundred Furious Lashes is the man.

...I play a mean Leaf/Water deck.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Squirtle and Ivysaur are all terrible Pokémon competitively in the games and TCG, and Charizard was lackluster competitively until 6th gen. Obviously nobody cares about them. They were all bad in Brawl except for Pikachu, who is the company mascot and obviously has to be good according to logic.

I dunno, light ball Pikachu has a niche in lower tiers, and belly-drum charizard was a decent strategy long before 6th gen.
Ack, but that's not the point.

From a competitive standpoint, Pichu wasn't designed to match up to the rest of the Melee roster, that's why people call him a joke character. Most clones were introduced as alternate versions to one character, but unfortunately a lot of Pichu was designed with the intent of being a weaker, shorter-ranged Pichu. Given the fact that Sakurai doesn't care much for competitive balance anyways, Pichu's very existence was obviously not a complete and total joke, but when you get people who are very competitively oriented you'll hear that description, sometimes. Best not to dwell on it.
Seriously, though, there are very logical arguments for and against Pichu, if you look far back enough. Pretty much all of this has been said at least once before, so there really isn't any use in sparking another Pichu war when we're still recovering from the last.

 

[Fortress]

Maybe I missed a proposed moveset and core adjustments, but I don't see any way that Pichu could be improved that wouldn't make him a near 1:1 copy of Pikachu. Which is my main beef with him. Leave Pichu the same, and he's garbage. Soup him up, and he could potentially be just another Pikachu. At least, that's the way I see it.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I dunno, light ball Pikachu has a niche in lower tiers

I FRICKIN' LOVE USING LIGHT BALL PIKACHU!!
UUURRRRRRRRGGGH!

Even in OU.

The strategy is just so brain-dead, and I'm a brain-dead person.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

Saying Pichu is a joke character is saying that every clone was a joke character as well.

Except, you know, the fact that Sakurai told us he made Pichu to be purposely bad.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

After some thought, I'd like to take a pretty big step back with my votes and wait a little longer, given the new rules:

+1:
Masked Man

Don't worry, I plan to fill more in soon-ish. I just need to think over my other top 5 contenders with a little more detail and size up some of the misgivings I have with their movesets before I make a final decision. So far Masked Man is the only one I've done that for.

+1/2:
(Old +1 choices)
Ridley
Isaac
Lyn
K. Rool

(Already were 1/2 votes, for reference)
Dixie
Sami
Bowser Jr
Tom Nook
Paper Mario

I'd like to switch my 1/2 Dark Samus vote to 0, as well. I find I'm more neutral on this one, but all the same I might look into it again some other time because the concept seems interesting enough.

 

[trojanpooh]

Maybe I missed a proposed moveset and core adjustments, but I don't see any way that Pichu could be improved that wouldn't make him a near 1:1 copy of Pikachu. Which is my main beef with him. Leave Pichu the same, and he's garbage. Soup him up, and he could potentially be just another Pikachu. At least, that's the way I see it.

There have been at least 3 different full moveset proposals all of which were unique and interesting as well as a large handful of single move suggestions. The only reason you think a balanced Pichu would be Pikachu is because you don't want it to be possible. Also I'm going to revise my votes. Since I first voted before the rule change I'm assuming that I have one edit grandfathered in. These votes are meant to entirely replace my old ones:

Up Votes:
Pichu - One of my favorite Melee characters and has a lot of potential when balanced out. Pikachu doesn't have a clone version yet and he's an interesting character.
Bowser Jr. - Tiny Bowser would be rad. That's basically it.

Down Votes:
Dixie - Despite DKC2 being my favorite game of all time Dixie has no place in Smash. She's the sidekick of a sidekick and thus not worthy.
Isaac - As cool as Isaac would be, there's no way the PMBR could do him justice due to the limitations of the engine. I'd rather just hope for Smash 4 and on.
Black Shadow/Ganondorf - I like Ganondorf's moveset and don't like playing as characters I don't like. I don't like Black Shadow so I don't want to play as him.
Any Spacie - We don't need 4 characters who all have the same base character. Krystal is the only one who has potential to be unique and she's awful.
Any 3rd Party - Nintendo All-Stars.

 

[ChronoBound]

Dixie - Despite DKC2 being my favorite game of all time Dixie has no place in Smash. She's the sidekick of a sidekick and thus not worthy.

Donkey Kong Country 3 has Dixie with top billing.

 

[ChronoBound]

My vote still stands even tho there was an update. Anyways here's my prediction: explanations are short cause its like almost midnight.

Pichu: This is a mod dedicated to melee, so i'd be surprised if he didn't get in.
Dixie Kong: Easy clone and because strong bad, even tho I'd be meh at the inclusion.
Lyn: Semi-ish clone, Can have an awesome moveset, and is m2k approved.
Isaac: This one just because he's popular, he may be hard-ish to do, but i think the PMBR will do 2 hard-ish characters to develop.
Ridley: See Isaac, also because people have been wanting him since melee, so he'd be like the last hype character they'd reveal.

Assuming they'd actually want to use the open slots....lol.

I would love these choices, though there might be better choices out there than Pichu, but having the likes of Ridley, Isaac, Dixie, and Lyn is a force to be reckoned with in terms of the amount of hype they would bring.

 

[trojanpooh]

Donkey Kong Country 3 has Dixie with top billing.

And Donkey Kong Country 2 has Diddy as the star. Doesn't make him any less of a sidekick in the grand scheme of things.

 

[ChronoBound]

And Donkey Kong Country 2 has Diddy as the star. Doesn't make him any less of a sidekick in the grand scheme of things.

Not really. Dixie and Diddy are as major players in the DK franchise as Luigi and Peach are.

 

[trojanpooh]

Not really. Dixie and Diddy are as major players in the DK franchise as Luigi and Peach are.

Dixie is more comparable to Axl from Mega Man X or Cheese from Sonic. She's been in all of 3 mainline games and is only the main character of one of them. She's normally a sidekick and in her latest outing she's going to be 1 of 3 sidekicks. In the DK series Diddy is Luigi and Bananas is Peach.

 

[ChronoBound]

She is seen as a mainline DK character by most people. Go ask anywhere who the Top 4 most important DK characters are, and its pretty much going to be DK, Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool.

 

[Malion]

And Donkey Kong Country 2 has Diddy as the star. Doesn't make him any less of a sidekick in the grand scheme of things.

Psssh. Diddy Kong racing disagrees with Diddy being a simple sidekick. He's just an alternate for Donkey Kong. He's more on the level of Luigi.

Dixie has had less exposure I agree, she was snubbed in Donkey Kong 64 and doesn't appear in Mario sports/racing games but she is still pretty popular, has a unique attribute, and she's a girl. Which in my opinion is the strongest reason to add any character to the game at this point.

 

[trojanpooh]

She is seen as a mainline DK character by most people. Go ask anywhere who the Top 4 most important DK characters are, and its pretty much going to be DK, Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool.

It'd more likely be DK, Diddy, K. Rool, and Dixie/Cranky/Funky. Personally I'd put my money on Funky being number 4 since he's been in Mario spin offs. The only reasons anyone even talks about her in relation to Smash is she had a folder on the Brawl disc and she's in the next DKCR game.

Psssh. Diddy Kong racing disagrees with Diddy being a simple sidekick. He's just an alternate for Donkey Kong. He's more on the level of Luigi.

Ummmm....Luigi is a sidekick...

 

[red9rd]

YEAR OF LUIGI!!!

 

[Solbliminal]

She is seen as a mainline DK character by most people. Go ask anywhere who the Top 4 most important DK characters are, and its pretty much going to be DK, Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool.

^ Anyone bold enough to argue that is clearly in denial. Dixie and K.Rool are among the top requested DKC characters. I don't see a single person here requesting Funky or Cranky Kong. If they did, they are very lonely voters.

 

[trojanpooh]

^ Anyone bold enough to argue that is clearly in denial. Dixie and K.Rool are among the top requested DKC characters. I don't see a single person here requesting Funky or Cranky Kong. If they did, they are very lonely voters.

Data isn't everything, you also need to look at the why. Dixie had absolutely no supporters until the arguments of "Sakurai's uriginul visssiun" and "muh relavance" reared their ugly heads. Before then any reasonable person would tell you DK was fine with 3 reps (the 3rd being K Rool, obviously).

 

[red9rd]

Cough Cough DK Jr

 

[Diddy Kong]

Funky over Dixie makes no sence bro.

I want all DKC characters possible though, but that's just me. ^^ Seriously, I'd be fine with either addtion, but adding K.Rool shouldn't rule out Dixie's inclusion and viseversa. It's not like with the Sonic characters, that both would end up being (semi)clones. Just Dixie has potential to be one, and that leaves all the more room for K.Rool before or after her inclusion.

Honestly, as a 5th character... I would want Lanky Kong in.

He's just straight badass.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Tropical Freeze will tell us alot about who Nintendo thinks is the most important kongs. We have DK, DIddy, DIxie and forth yet to be revealed. Whoever that forth is will tell us a lot about Nintendos priorities I think.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Tropical Freeze will tell us alot about who Nintendo thinks is the most important kongs. We have DK, DIddy, DIxie and forth yet to be revealed. Whoever that forth is will tell us a lot about Nintendos priorities I think.

Retro's priorities. Speaking of, am pissed as FAWK that Diddy (and Dixie) aren't playable on their own!

And I think the 4th 'Kong' might actually be a new character made by Retro.