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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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splat

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It'd more likely be DK, Diddy, K. Rool, and Dixie/Cranky/Funky. Personally I'd put my money on Funky being number 4 since he's been in Mario spin offs.
Funny how you mention spin-offs as the criteria for importance.

Mario spin-offs Funky has been in:
- Mario Kart Wii
- Mario Super Sluggers

Mario spin-offs Dixie has been in:
- Mario Superstar Baseball
- Mario Super Sluggers
- Mario Hoops 3-on-3

Meanwhile, the Mario spin-offs King K. Rool (the one you deem no. 3) has been in:
- Mario Super Sluggers

The only reasons anyone even talks about her in relation to Smash is she had a folder on the Brawl disc and she's in the next DKCR game.
Playable appearances for Dixie (excluding above mentioned games):
- DKC 2
- DKL 2
- DKC 3
- DKL 3
- Donkey Konga 2
- Donkey Konga 3
- DK: King of Swing
- Diddy Kong Racing DS
- Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
- DK Jungle Climber
- DKC: Tropical Freeze
Total: 11

Total appearances (unplayable included) for Dixie: 17

Playable appearances for Funky (excluding above mentioned games):
- DK: King of Swing
- Donkey Konga 3
- Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
- DK: Jungle Climber
Total: 4

Total appearances (unplayable included) for Funky: 15

Indeed, we have absolutely no reason to choose Dixie over Funky.
 

Deviljho

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Isn't Dixie already in Brawls directory? That'd make her a more viable choice then Funky.
 

Diddy Kong

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Funky is only said by people who only know of Donkey Kong through Mario Kart. :rolleyes:
 

Malion

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Let's get Tiny in here!... eh or not.

Or maybe Chunky Kong? He's one hell of a guy.
 

Solbliminal

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Data isn't everything, you also need to look at the why. Dixie had absolutely no supporters until the arguments of "Sakurai's uriginul visssiun" and "muh relavance" reared their ugly heads. Before then any reasonable person would tell you DK was fine with 3 reps (the 3rd being K Rool, obviously).
Are you a hypocrite? You are going to actually argue the worth of a character while being blind to the one you support? You can't seriously lash at me like some fanboy with excuses you don't even consider for your own Pichu discussions. Have you even bothered to ask yourself why people DON'T want Pichu? I'm not like that with my Shadow discussions where I try to explain his worth, rather than argue that every character is less than mine like you seem to do. I'm well aware why no one here likes or wants my character choice. It doesn't matter that he was in Brawl as an assist trophy, tops the vault downloads, or even that he is the most popular Sonic character next to Sonic himself. No one HERE wants him nor cares about those details. The same can be said about anything Pichu related, rather it be the anime, game series, or Melee.

I'm not going to keep arguing with you, because it is clear you are only applying your logic to characters that aren't your own. I'm starting to see ChronoBounds point in all his arguments...
 

Diddy Kong

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Know which character(s) would be awesome to? And will NEVER happen in Smash 4 despite being popular?



Sure it would be complex to make them work, but damn... This would generate MASS hype! They'd translate in Smash really easy to.
 

red9rd

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If only Rare didn't sell out to Microsoft :(
Even if Nintendo got them back, all that's left is a husk.


So MANY hours spent (not wasted) on Bad Fur Day.
 

AnOkayDM

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Also, the idea that there are too many Pokémon reps is partially the fault of the PMBR for splitting the Trainer into three different characters. Regardless of whether it was a good idea, that's the only reason the Pokémon reps seem inflated, other than having the most rep changes from Melee to Brawl.
Uh, no. Regardless of how you slice it, the Pokémon Trainer is three playable characters in one slot. Add the fact that there were three other playable Pokémon and you get six playable Pokémon characters. Add Mewtwo into that and it becomes seven. That is too many for any series, and don't give me the "it has seven hundred potential choices." When you factor in evolutions and the fact that no one gives a **** about the vast majority of the Pokémon included, no it doesn't.

Zelda and Sheik are still together for their moveset, but that doesn't mean they're one character. They're two, each with full movesets and differing playstyles. Zelda has five characters, not four. Pokémon has seven characters, not five, and it would have even if the Pokémon had stayed together. Blaming the PMBR is terrible logic when they didn't choose to add the PT characters in the first place.
 

Diddy Kong

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If only Rare didn't sell out :(

True. But Project M isn't an official game, so it should still be a possibility no?

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the 'has to be in Brawl' rule... :rolleyes: Seriously, why is this? Diddy for example also had no trophy in Melee (as weird as this is), yet he still got in Brawl. Not saying that Project M should go ahead and make Batman, Barack Obama, Naruto, Hello Kitty and Goku playable... But a little more flexibility would be nice for newer Nintendo characters to I feel.

Ah well, probably should be more than happy enough with Mewtwo, Roy, Isaac and Dixie / K.Rool. So am not complaining, just wondering why.
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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Know which character(s) would be awesome to? And will NEVER happen in Smash 4 despite being popular?



Sure it would be complex to make them work, but damn... This would generate MASS hype! They'd translate in Smash really easy to.
Banjo isn`t owned by Nintendo and the original owners were bought and killed by Microsoft with there last banjo game bring Nuts & Bolts
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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True. But Project M isn't an official game, so it should still be a possibility no?

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the 'has to be in Brawl' rule... :rolleyes: Seriously, why is this? Diddy for example also had no trophy in Melee (as weird as this is), yet he still got in Brawl. Not saying that Project M should go ahead and make Batman, Barack Obama, Naruto, Hello Kitty and Goku playable... But a little more flexibility would be nice for newer Nintendo characters to I feel.

Ah well, probably should be more than happy enough with Mewtwo, Roy, Isaac and Dixie / K.Rool. So am not complaining, just wondering why.
because C and D`s are a thing
 

AnOkayDM

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True. But Project M isn't an official game, so it should still be a possibility no?

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the 'has to be in Brawl' rule... :rolleyes: Seriously, why is this? Diddy for example also had no trophy in Melee (as weird as this is), yet he still got in Brawl. Not saying that Project M should go ahead and make Batman, Barack Obama, Naruto, Hello Kitty and Goku playable... But a little more flexibility would be nice for newer Nintendo characters to I feel.

Ah well, probably should be more than happy enough with Mewtwo, Roy, Isaac and Dixie / K.Rool. So am not complaining, just wondering why.
By using only characters that have been licensed in Brawl in the first place, they hope to lessen the possibility of Nintendo cracking down on them. Makes sense to me.
 

trojanpooh

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Are you a hypocrite? You are going to actually argue the worth of a character while being blind to the one you support? You can't seriously lash at me like some fanboy with excuses you don't even consider for your own Pichu discussions. Have you even bothered to ask yourself why people DON'T want Pichu? I'm not like that with my Shadow discussions where I try to explain his worth, rather than argue that every character is less than mine like you seem to do. I'm well aware why no one here likes or wants my character choice. It doesn't matter that he was in Brawl as an assist trophy, tops the vault downloads, or even that he is the most popular Sonic character next to Sonic himself. No one HERE wants him nor cares about those details. The same can be said about anything Pichu related, rather it be the anime, game series, or Melee.

I'm not going to keep arguing with you, because it is clear you are only applying your logic to characters that aren't your own. I'm starting to see ChronoBounds point in all his arguments...

Funny you should ask because no I'm not. The argument had nothing to do with her place in Smash Bros, but her place in her own series and how iconic she was. I also never mentioned Pichu or Shadow once in my discussion of Dixie so I don't see what your point is...like...at all. What I want to know is:
*how was I "lashing out"
*what did my Dixie discussion have to do with Pichu
*where have I proven that I didn't understand why people don't want Pichu
*where has ChronoBound had a single legitimate issue with my character

I'll save you the time, because the answer to all of these is that they never happened.
 

PsionicSabreur

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Zelda and Sheik are still together for their moveset, but that doesn't mean they're one character. They're two, each with full movesets and differing playstyles. Zelda has five characters, not four. Pokémon has seven characters, not five, and it would have even if the Pokémon had stayed together.
Just thought I'd point this out and add Samus and ZSS to the list. I know that's not so much with popular opinion because another Metroid rep is so appealing to a lot of people (myself included), but it's there and often overlooked.
---------------------------------------------
Now, to refer to all these other importance and representation arguments, if a character appears in some spinoff game that doesn't contribute to their character in Smash at all, is it actually useful to quote those games as appearances? I'm seeing remakes and spinoff titles cited cited almost with as much importance as main titles in a series, and I guess I don't quite get that. It's fine for arguing about importance in the series as a whole, I just don't see it being too relevant because Smash is ultimately based off of main title appearances (hence why Waluigi isn't too great a choice) and importance in Smash is a little more difficult to quantify than just counting up the characters per games released.
For example, I think a lot of you would call BS if I tried to cite Mother 1+2 as a fourth Mother game, even though sizable changes were made to Mother 1 in the spirit of remaking the game. Earthbound-style movement replaced the grid-based system and new convenience features such as being able to check if an area has random encounters were added. Mother 2 had many version differences from the original (Earthbound) as well.
I wouldn't mind if you would accept that as a reasonable argument for increasing the game count, of course, I'm fine either way...:smirk:

My general point is: the notion that representation is purely percentage-based is causing a lot of problems and inconsistencies with smaller series as well.
I apologize, but my first example is, again, Mother. Two characters over three games, despite only being two characters, is already 2:3, or 66%. Add a single character, because that's really the lowest you can possibly add, and bam. "100 percent?" you might be inclined to say, "That's too big!". Well, hear me out, I'm not saying it isn't a lot, but I am saying that it isn't breaking any rules.

Let's take a look at Starfox. The series consists of SNES, 64, Adventures, Assault, Command, 643D. Three characters, 50% compared to 6 games. Except SNES, 64, and 643D are all the same story. 64 was a heavily remade game, so it should still count, at least. Adventures wasn't even planned to be a Star Fox game, and I'll consider it more of a spinoff here, since it is largely stand-alone with it's gameplay. Assault, people probably consider a main title, same with Command. That leaves my reasoning at three characters for four main entries in the series, plus one spinoff.
Pure percentages say 60% for Star Fox's characters/per games, even when it has three characters and, in the context of Smash, is preventing just as many other fighters from getting into the game as a hypothetical third Mother character.
So, from just one additional game and one spinoff, the percentage is at a whopping 40% under the Mother series. Yes, Mother would still be represented more by comparison, but the difference would nearly be the lowest it could. The only way there could be less of a difference between representation is if Star Fox had four main titles and no spin-offs vs. Mother's three main titles.
I mean, look at Ice Climbers. The same logic would label them at 100% representation, one character for one game, but these rules don't work for lower numbers.

At any rate, hopefully I've demonstrated, whether percentages are favorable or not, or whether they're accurate or not, one character slot is still one character slot.

Specifically, I would like to comment on the Pokemon representation argument:
Pokemon already has more reps than it does generations (let's be honest, each generation is a single game design, it should only count as one game), which is already a very high ceiling compared to the smaller series on the roster. Having such a huge series seems to let people overlook that you could fit several fleshed out series within Pokemon's Smash roster already, because it seems like the character to game ratio is smaller.
This is the reason that I find Pokemon to be the exception as far as over-repping goes; I don't really have a huge problem with adding a character to any other series, and even still I think that Pichu should be open for consideration.

I probably said all this to be free of branding with the hypocrisy iron in the future, to be honest. The reality is a problem on one character might make them not worth it for a voter, but another character might have other strengths that make up for that very same problem, and whether these strengths are worth it is obviously subjective.
 

arcticfox8

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So Ridley. I like Ridley. He's cool as ****. But he's also big as ****.
I know that argument is old and tired, but hear me out. I know characters have been resized before. I know how big Ridley was in the first Metroid. I know.
The thing is, in recent years it shows him huge. And he's cool that way. He's cool because he's a big as **** alien dragon. And tbh I don't want to play as him. I want to fight him in an epic boss battle. I like the thought of another Metroid rep, but there just isn't a Smash-ready character from Metroid. Lets think here. If they make Ridley, he's either gonna be scaled down, or the biggest character in the game. Lets assume they go with Samus-sized Ridley from Metroid NES. Wouldn't that be silly? Brawl Ridley the size of NES Ridley. Now lets try BIG RIDLEY. He would be a punching bag. Unlike Bowser, Ridley has no reason to have super armor moves. Ridley would be asking for a Rest. Like I said, Ridley is cool as ****, but he's hard to do justice.


*prepares for the flames*
 

Malion

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Ridley might be big but they really don't regard sizes that often.. Pikachu is tiny and is only 3/4 the size of mario in the game. He's about half the height of Mewtwo who has been shown to be taller than the average person in the anime... and they are both pokemon. Olimar is as small as an ant normally.

But even if Ridley doesn't work there were like 5/6 bounty hunter characters from that one multiplayer Metroid game so it's not like there isn't anyone possible to add from Metroid.
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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Ridley might be big but they really don't regard sizes that often.. Pikachu is tiny and is only 3/4 the size of mario in the game. He's about half the height of Mewtwo who has been shown to be taller than the average person in the anime... and they are both pokemon. Olimar is as small as an ant normally.

But even if Ridley doesn't work there were like 5/6 bounty hunter characters from that one multiplayer Metroid game so it's not like there isn't anyone possible to add from Metroid.
ADD IN MOTHER BRAIN! SHOOT SPAGHETTI LAZERZ!
 

AnOkayDM

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Uhhh...

I read your entire post, I promise, but I have no idea what your point is. Percentages? What are you even talking about?

I know Pokémon has a lot of potential choices, and a lot of games, and is one of Nintendo's best-selling franchises. But that doesn't, in my opinion, give it free reign to clutter the roster with more than seven characters. Hell, seven is too many in my opinion, but I'd rather have Mewtwo than not and I don't want to cut anyone's main.

The Mario series has a lot of potential choices too, and sells incredibly well, and has a lot of games, but that doesn't mean it deserves more than five slots. It doesn't matter to me how many games a series has had, as long as every character that gets into Smash from that series is actually important (Sheik...egh. Important is a strong word for Sheik) and the roster doesn't get cluttered with that series. There is not a single series in Smash that, in my opinion, deserves more than six characters, no matter how many potential characters there are. And that's a big part of why I don't see the need for Pichu. He's simply not important to Pokémon.

I'm sorry if I missed something huge here, so if you feel I misunderstood you, please correct me, but this is how I feel.
 

PsionicSabreur

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I'm sorry if I missed something huge here, so if you feel I misunderstood you, please correct me, but this is how I feel.
It's kind of my fault for taking on several points at once. What you've said here is in agreement with what I was trying to say, and about Pokemon in particular. I said that they were my personal exception to representation rules, meaning I'd rather not have more of them.
The percentages part was an attempt to show that judging by way of characters per series game isn't always a good way to go.
 

AnOkayDM

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It's kind of my fault for taking on several points at once. What you've said here is in agreement with what I was trying to say, and about Pokemon in particular. I said that they were my personal exception to representation rules, meaning I'd rather not have more of them.
The percentages part was an attempt to show that judging by way of characters per series game isn't always a good way to go.
Ohhh.

Eh. It wouldn't bother me if, say, Mother had as many characters as games, since they'd all be important characters. I don't think "reps" should be counted by number of games necessarily, but by importance of character.
 

trojanpooh

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That along with importance of series, but I don't think that "reps" should even be a thing in Project M. If a character has moveset potential that can add something positive to the meta then that should be good enough.
 

Chzrm3

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Funky over Dixie makes no sence bro.

I want all DKC characters possible though, but that's just me. ^^ Seriously, I'd be fine with either addtion, but adding K.Rool shouldn't rule out Dixie's inclusion and viseversa. It's not like with the Sonic characters, that both would end up being (semi)clones. Just Dixie has potential to be one, and that leaves all the more room for K.Rool before or after her inclusion.

Honestly, as a 5th character... I would want Lanky Kong in.



He's just straight badass.

Dude, I'm not gonna lie, I had a dream one time that K. Rool, Dixie, Lanky and Funky all made it in. Waking up from that was one of the most heartbreaking "WAIT THAT WASN'T REAL!?!?!" moments ever.

It was so weird, too. I was unlocking them by running around in some mini-game, breaking DK64-style boxes with their faces on it. It didn't make any sense at all, but I got all four of them and then my brother and I played a few matches and I woke up.

I didn't get a chance to play Lanky. I legitimately regret that - I played as Dixie first, then K. Rool. >_O Both of them were so much fun, but those weird dream shenanigans were happening too - I remember I kept using Up-B as K. Rool and different things were happening, and one time it just made me die.

But yeah, reason I'm saying all this is because in the deepest recesses of my mind, I want every feasible DK character added. >: D
 

Deviljho

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I imagine adding in pokemon would be rather difficult unless they are of the same lineage of the existing pokemon (Such additions would be like Wigglytuff, Raichu, or Riolu) or already in the Smash previously (Like Mewtwo). Unless I'm missing some part of this conversation and I'm going off on some tangent, that's my say in the matter.
 

Anti Guy

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That along with importance of series, but I don't think that "reps" should even be a thing in Project M. If a character has moveset potential that can add something positive to the meta then that should be good enough.

That alone is hardly qualifying. By that logic you can pull out some obscure characters and characters that no one likes. One of the big things about Smash Bros is that it's an ALL STAR game, not just a fighting a game with characters with good movesets. You're playing as key Nintendo characters. And when you talk about All Stars, representation is naturally going to be a factor. How big of a factor it is depends on the person, but it's still a factor.

It's all about star power here, and moveset potential is secondary to that. When you talk about the original SF64, what on earth could Fox and Captain Falcon do? But they made it happen. You pick a character and roll with it, and knowing Nintendo back then, they can make it happen. The only difference here in PM is that we are restricted by movesets due to technical limitations, but that still should not be the number one factor. It's against the spirit of the game.
 

Starcutter

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I still think that Red should be a playable character for the reasons anti-guy had stated. I pesonally consider him THE most important character in pokemon, like how marth is of fire emblem.

but that's just me I guess.
 

OcarinaOfDoom

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If I could, editing my vote from
Up votes:
Lyn
Ridley
Isaac
Black Shadorf + New Gdorf
Saki

Downvotes:
Waluigi
All of the Sonic characters
to
Up vote:
Lyn
Ridley
Isaac
Masked Man
Black Shadow + New Gdorf
Half Vote:
Saki
Down Vote:
Waluigi - Unimportant character. Pass
Nook - imo would be hard to make and not really worth it to fans compared to Ridley, ect.
Sonic Characters - dont need more third-parties
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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I still think that Red should be a playable character for the reasons anti-guy had stated. I pesonally consider him THE most important character in pokemon, like how marth is of fire emblem.

but that's just me I guess.
You know those old RPGs were the overworld sprite looked nothing like any of the characters in your party? I see pokemon trainer more as on of those kinds of things personally.
 

Starcutter

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You know those old RPGs were the overworld sprite looked nothing like any of the characters in your party? I see pokemon trainer more as on of those kinds of things personally.
uh, please re-explain? I have no idea where you are going with this.
 

Anti Guy

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I still think that Red should be a playable character for the reasons anti-guy had stated. I pesonally consider him THE most important character in pokemon, like how marth is of fire emblem.

but that's just me I guess.

Well he pretty much made it in Brawl, but his presence was eliminated in P:M. I think his Brawl implementation makes sense though. If you walked up to a Pokemon trainer on the street and picked a fight, would he run up to you and start punching and kicking? He'd use his pokemon as is the Pokemon world spirit, so that's how he fights in Brawl. For that reason, I actually kinda don't like what they did in P:M by separating all the characters (each one on their own is pretty insignificant as well) and getting rid of the whole trainer battle idea.
 

PsionicSabreur

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Eh. It wouldn't bother me if, say, Mother had as many characters as games, since they'd all be important characters. I don't think "reps" should be counted by number of games necessarily, but by importance of character.
Yep. That was definitely something I was getting at.
I've gone back and tried to be more clear about it, so hopefully there won't be as much confusion.

Hopefully I'm not giving the impression that popularity and star power have no presence whatsoever, I'm just trying to say that judging representation in any arbitrary manner can be difficult and counterproductive.

I took this out of the original post, since I realized it had little bearing on what I was trying to say. Thought I'd mention it here:
"Nintendo History" and "Third Party" are groups that I've largely remained neutral on. Take Sukapon, for example. I don't view him as repping a single neglected game, I see him as representing part of Nintendo's history, which several other characters were introduced for as well: ROB, Ice Climbers, and Game & Watch. He wouldn't be over-representing, but neither would more third party characters.

Also, I don't quite get why the concept for Isaac is so underdeveloped if he's at the top of the voting list. Does anyone want to discuss him a little more?
 

Starcutter

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Well he pretty much made it in Brawl, but his presence was eliminated in P:M. I think his Brawl implementation makes sense though. If you walked up to a Pokemon trainer on the street and picked a fight, would he run up to you and start punching and kicking? He'd use his pokemon as is the Pokemon world spirit, so that's how he fights in Brawl. For that reason, I actually kinda don't like what they did in P:M by separating all the characters (each one on their own is pretty insignificant as well) and getting rid of the whole trainer battle idea.
well, they did make a fighter out of the villager, who just normally doesn't fight. I think it's more likely to see a trainer fight anyways.

I do have a Red moveset that I can post if anyone wants.

EDIT: whatever I'm doing it anyways

[collapse=Red moveset]
Red:
[collapse=how I'm rating the size and stuff]
Real Low---Low---Below average---Little below average--Average--Little above average---Above average---High---Very high
example, size
Squirtle---Pikachu---Pikmin and Olimar---Ivysaur--Mario--Link---Snake---Charizard---Bowser
[/collapse]
Size: [little above average] about the same as snake, if not a bit shorter.
Weight: [average] he does have a bag with so much in it, it really shouldn't all fit.
Friction: [little below average] his shoes don't look like they would have any good traction on many surfaces.
Air Mobility: [Low] it's RED. he only jumps when going off cliffs. which, might I add, is the OPPOSITE of what smash is supposed to be.

Grapple (Old Rod):
Red pulls out the old rod and uses it to try to nab opponents and pull them closer. missing will leave red vulnerable. can also be used as a tether with Z

Jab:
just a basic one-two punch. like snake's but without a kick.

Tilts:
Side Tilt (Strength): Red uses the power of his pokemon and does a good shove.(taken from the way strength is used in the field) does high knockback for a tilt.
Down Tilt (PAcK): Red crouches down and opens his pack to look for something. does multiple hits
Up Tilt: Red raises his pokeball high in the air.

Smashes:
Side Smash (Cut): Red uses the power of his pokemon and a slash effect is seen in front of red, while he holds a pokeball up high .(taken from the way cut is used in the field)
Down Smash (Bait): Red places a bait on the ground, like in the safari zone. will heal teammates if eaten, and will stun opponents if stepped on. longer the charge, better the heal/stun
Up Smash: ...I actually can't think of anything... uh, lemme know if you come up with something good I guess.

Specials:
Down Special (Rock Throw): Red throws a rock. it travels about as fast as pit's arrow. also, Red might throw some other objects, such as an apple (which does more damage but can be eaten after) or a pester ball (like in pokemon snap, it will stun opponents)
Side Special (Bike): Red rides a bike. when he starts this move, a familiar "ding" can be heard. please don't sit in the corner and spam this. Works just like Wario's bike.
Neutral Special (Pokeball): Red throws a pokeball, temporarily capturing the opponent for a few moments. it doesn't do much damage upon impact, and the opponent can't be hurt inside the ball. best used to close the gap.
Up Special (Fly): Red summons a Pidgeotto and it flies him up a bit. does some damage. best related to a mixture between fox's firefox, and lucario's extremespeed.

Taunts:
Up Taunt: Red tosses his pokeball up and catches it, all while tipping his hat.
Side Taunt: Red checks his pokedex for information.
Down Taunt: Red Ties his shoe. (that's the best I could think of, really.)
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Xebenkeck

Smash Lord
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The representation arguement is stupid for the simple reason that if Smash was indicative of Nintendo's success, we'd have 20 mario character, 15 Zelda Characters, 14 Pokemon, 6 Wii Fit Trainers, and like 1 DK, 1 Kirby. Every other franchise cant even hold a candle to the Big three and Wii fit.
 
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