New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[red9rd]

I think Pichu evolved, it only makes sense because Luigi kept Volt tackle as one of his four moves after the evolution.

 

[l3thargy]

I think Pichu evolved, it only makes sense because Luigi kept Volt tackle as one of his four moves after the evolution.

I think you're mistaking volt tackle with skull bash, volt tackle is pikachu's final smash not his side-b and the only way for a pikachu to learn volt tackle in the pokemon games is for it to evolve from a pichu

 

[Malion]

I think Pichu evolved, it only makes sense because Luigi kept Volt tackle as one of his four moves after the evolution.

Luigi does sort of look like pichu now that you mention it. Mama Luigi?

 

[Solbliminal]

lol why not, doesn't pikachu have pichu's old goggles and knows volt tackle.

Doesn't he also have Pichu's B-air too?

 

[Saito]

Doesn't he also have Pichu's B-air too?

Had.

P:M gave him his Bair from Smash 64 which is a kick.

In Brawl and Melee (I think?) Pikachu had the same attack, but his pulled in enemies while Pichu's just knocked them away.

This is assuming I remember correctly since I haven't played either Melee or Brawl since I got P:M

 

[l3thargy]

Doesn't he also have Pichu's B-air too?

I think the pmbr took pikachu's back air from the original smash

 

[Solbliminal]

I think the pmbr took pikachu's back air from the original smash

Either way, it can be assumed it did evolve. PMBR likely didn't find any benefits in Pichu's playstyle, hence why they removed the B-Air. I personally wouldn't mind Pichu if we didn't already have 7 Pokemon. People like using the 3rd party argument against Sonic and Metal Gear characters, but overlook Pokemon's over representation for the sake of Pichu. I find that absolutely ridiculous and hypocritical. If the 3rd party characters don't deserve a slot, Pichu doesn't either for the same reason. Leave room for other franchise representation.

That aside, Issac looks like the top character. While I've never actually played Golden Sun, I have a friend who was obsessed with the series. I would be happy to see him get a character he likes if it gets him back into playing Smash. Plus I've always been fond of how RPG characters are handled in Smash. Who's to say I won't end up playing him myself? I mean the same thing happened to me with Marth, Roy, and Ike. Looking forward to it if they decide to add more characters.

 

[Chzrm3]

Either way, it can be assumed it did evolve. PMBR likely didn't find any benefits in Pichu's playstyle, hence why they removed the B-Air. I personally wouldn't mind Pichu if we didn't already have 7 Pokemon. People like using the 3rd party argument against Sonic and Metal Gear characters, but overlook Pokemon's over representation for the sake of Pichu. I find that absolutely ridiculous and hypocritical. If the 3rd party characters don't deserve a slot, Pichu doesn't either for the same reason. Leave room for other franchise representation.

It's kind of different when they're third party, though. I'd be fine with the game having 8 Mario characters, if they were 8 great, fun characters that meant a lot to me. I'd start to feel a little grossed out if they added a second MGS character, though. Regardless of how phenomenal of a choice the character was, how important s/he was to the series or gaming as a whole, it wouldn't really matter; I'd feel like other great choices were being ignored in favor of a series that's already getting a tremendous amount of love just by being here.

That's why I understand where the Sonic downvoters are coming from. I personally would love to see Tails as an interesting clone of Sonic, but it's very clear that a lot of people wouldn't, and I get why. When I think of how I really wouldn't enjoy/like another MGS character, I can empathize with how they'd feel about another Sonic character.

Heck, I didn't downvote anyone, but if I did use my downvotes they'd be for Raiden/Gray Fox. I don't even know if Raiden can be used, if he's a trophy or wutevs.

 

[trojanpooh]

• It was an April Fool's joke, and I don't understand why it would make more sense to include him if his supposed inclusion was a joke

Because it's a slap in the face to all the Pichu fans out there. Turbo mode turned out to be real, as did the clone engine, something which the Pichu "reveal" was obviously alluding to. To announce the clone engine by pretending that a veteran from Melee was finally coming back is extremely cruel and thoughtless. There is no getting away from this

Going by that logic, Pichu evolved into Pikachu.

Ummmm....how does that make even the tiniest bit of sense? When you talk about characters in a fighting game is basically implied that you're referring to movesets which obviously isn't represented in Project M. Nobody cares about the terribly deep character that is the exact Pichu that is played in Melee, they like the way Pichu played. Toon Link and Young Link are both Link as a kid, the only difference is art style. Pichu and Pikachu are entirely different creatures. The comparison isn't even close to valid.

 

[Fortress]

Because it's a slap in the face to all the Pichu fans out there.

[collapse=Oh, I forgot about all of them.]

[/collapse]

That billboard has a list of all of the big-time Pichu mains out there.

But, in all seriousness, the Pichu joke was thrown out after all of the official parts of the video. As part of the joke. Which the rest of it wasn't included in.

Did I mention Pichu was bad?

 

[trojanpooh]

It doesn't matter, it was still part of an official Project M video and was in extremely bad taste if it was all meant to be a joke.

 

[Fortress]

and was in extremely bad taste if it was all meant to be a joke.

How? It couldn't have been worse than the time when Stalin was hinted at for 2.6b.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

[collapse=Oh, I forgot about all of them.]

[/collapse]

That billboard has a list of all of the big-time Pichu mains out there.

But, in all seriousness, the Pichu joke was thrown out after all of the official parts of the video. As part of the joke. Which the rest of it wasn't included in.

Did I mention Pichu was bad?

How? It couldn't have been worse than the time when Stalin was hinted at for 2.6b.

Shots Fired

 

[Fortress]

Shots Fired

I said it. You all heard me.

#gauntletthrown

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I said it. You all heard me.

#gauntletthrown

I can't breathe, that was too good.

Disclaimer: Neutral Party

 

[trojanpooh]

How? It couldn't have been worse than the time when Stalin was hinted at for 2.6b.

How is it not? How would you feel if instead of Pichu at the end of that trailer they showed the silhouette of [insert your most wanted newcomer] and then they added 7 different characters and gave your character the cold shoulder?

 

[Fortress]

What 'most-wanted-newcomer'? I have Link.

Plus, Pichu was a joke. I'm pretty sure he was a joke in Melee, too.

 

[ChronoBound]

I know Pichu fans get angry when I bring this up, however, I don't think it reflects well when he was basically the ONLY character Sakurai had no intention of bringing back for Brawl. Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario all were a part of the Forbidden 7, while Toon Link was basically a more modernized design for Young Link.

While he has very loud supporters, there is also a lot of detractors for the character.

I have a Top 10 made up for the most supported characters in this thread. I did not incorporate negative votes into the ranking, since negative ranking were always intended to be kept separate.

S:
Isaac
Ridley

A:
Lyn

B:
Black Shadow
Dixie Kong
Dark Samus

C:
Sukapon
Sami
Pichu
Paper Mario
Saki (honorable mention)

The negative Top 5:
1. Shadow
2. Knuckles
3. Tails
4. Walugi
5. Pichu
(Dis)Honorable Mention: Krystal

Dark Samus and Black Shadow/Ganondorf also are divisive ideas, though less so to Pichu. The Sonic trinity, Waluigi, and Krystal seem to be legitimately unpopular (far more negative votes than positive ones), while characters like Pichu, Dark Samus, and Black Shadow are merely divisive. Though in the case of Pichu, he skews more towards negative.


Isaac and Lyn both seem to me to be characters with no real detractions to them. Both are really well known and popular. I would be surprised if those two did not end up in Project M. Ridley performs really strongly, but I think him being rather difficult compared to humanoid characters will prove to be what makes them hesitate on him. The fact that Metroid characters perform so strongly makes me think one of the five slots will probably go to Metroid. Though if Ridley ends up being de-confirmed for Smash 4, and Dark Samus getting in, could end up very ugly.

Dixie Kong would probably be doing even better if people didn't use the "what if she ends up in Smash 4" thing on her. She is still performing very strong regardless. I think she is a strong contender, however, she is definitely weaker than Isaac, Lyn, and a Metroid newcomer. Probably the strongest one outside those three though (though the Metroid spot is basically a toss up between Ridley and Dark Samus).

In regards to non-conventional characters, we have a possible Marth/Roy in the form of Sami, and a possible Game & Watch/ROB in the form of Sukapon. Its basically like the Ridley/Dark Samus situation (one being tricky, while the other is an easy clone), except the support is basically even (whereas Ridley basically doubles DS in support). One of these two would definitely be a good dark horse to throw in to round out the five slots, though I am not sure whether they would do them, or simply go through with de-cloned Ganon/Black Shadow.

 

[Malion]

pssh you guys Pichu is old news. Spikey Eared Pichu is where it's at now.

 

[ChronoBound]

Plus, Pichu was a joke. I'm pretty sure he was a joke in Melee, too.

I am not sure what you mean about Pichu being a joke, but on Pichu's Japanese Melee Dojo page, Sakurai admitted to purposely making him a bad character.

 

[Fortress]

pssh you guys Pichu is old news. Spikey Eared Pichu is where it's at now.

Raichu?

[collapse=]

[/collapse]

Who, coincidentally, would be a better clone than Pichu.

I am not sure what you mean about Pichu being a joke, but on Pichu's Japanese Melee Dojo page, Sakurai admitted to purposely making him a bad character.

That's what I meant, a joke, Like, so bad that how could I think Pichu was anything but a joke?

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Pichu's trophy description definitely supports his joke status. I remember feeling really insulted as a kid because he was my favorite and the trophy pretty much says that he's weak and relies on items to survive.

 

[trojanpooh]

What 'most-wanted-newcomer'? I have Link.

Plus, Pichu was a joke. I'm pretty sure he was a joke in Melee, too.

So you don't want a single new character to be added to the current roster? Seems strange for you to be on a character speculation thread, then. Use your imagination if you're being serious.

I know Pichu fans get angry when I bring this up, however, I don't think it reflects well when he was basically the ONLY character Sakurai had no intention of bringing back for Brawl. Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario all were a part of the Forbidden 7, while Toon Link was basically a more modernized design for Young Link.

People get "angry" when you bring it up because Sakurai did a ton of stupid crap in Brawl the entire point of Project M is to fix said problems. "Sakurai had planned might (keyword: might) have merit in Smash 4 character speculation, but this isn't Smash 4. That's to say it's a stupid argument which doesn't even deserve discussion.

 

[ChronoBound]

I actually really like what the team did with Dr. Mario. They basically satisfied both groups of people with him (those who loved Doc for purely aesthetic reasons, and those who loved him for his advantages over regular Mario), while at the same time, not agitating those who did not want to see him "waste a slot". Personally, I look forward to seeing Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario finally return to Smash Bros. this winter.

Dr. Mario was always the most popular between the three of Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Pichu (at least in regards to which character people would like to see return), so it was nice to see him brought back in a way they made it mostly everyone happy.

 

[Fortress]

So you don't want a single new character to be added to the current roster? Seems strange for you to be on a character speculation thread, then. Use your imagination if you're being serious.

I'm all for having some additions to the roster, but not ****ing Pichu. Even Melee goes on about how ****ty of a character he was. Even Sakurai dished out on how bad he was. What do you want?

If you want to read back on the past however many pages, I'm in there somewhere. My own 'wishlist' goes as far as Zant and Primid, but, I know they don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of being considered at all. Anybody deserves a spot over Pichu.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

How is it not? How would you feel if instead of Pichu at the end of that trailer they showed the silhouette of [insert your most wanted newcomer] and then they added 7 different characters and gave your character the cold shoulder?

If my most wanted newcomer was "revealed" in an April Fools video and then never actually came to the game? I wouldn't feel disappointed, because I know what a joke is.

 

[Fortress]

And that it wasn't in poor taste, because it was hilarious, because Pichu was laughably terrible.

 

[Malion]

Raichu?

Screw that noise!

Nothing beats the sheer creativity and mass appeal of the spiky eared pichu.

 

[Fortress]

Except a solid moveset and core mechanics?

 

[trojanpooh]

If my most wanted newcomer was "revealed" in an April Fools video and then never actually came to the game? I wouldn't feel disappointed, because I know what a joke is.

But the entire point of the Pichu reveal was to hint at the working clone engine. I obviously know what a joke is, but that one wasn't funny. Sure, if they "announced" Pichu but no new characters were ever added it would be different but that isn't the case.

 

[l3thargy]

Raichu?

[collapse=]

[/collapse]

omg lol, with what I said about pichu becoming a pikachu this would be perfect it'd be like they both evolved since the last game hahaha

 

[Fortress]

But the entire point of the Pichu reveal was to hint at the working clone engine. I obviously know what a joke is, but that one wasn't funny. Sure, if they "announced" Pichu but no new characters were ever added it would be different but that isn't the case.

They didn't 'announce' Pichu. It was a joke. On April Fools. That PM:BR confirmed to be a joke.

Did I mention the PM:BR said that?

 

[Chzrm3]

Yeah honestly, I'd be down for Raichu. I feel the same way about him as I do about Dark Samus - taking two really fun playstyles and making them meaty and hefty would create another kind of Ganondorf situation, and I love Gdorf so I'm all for that.

I've also got an amazing Raichu model that I think Starwaffles made, and playing as that has made me really warm up to the idea of him being his own character.

I know that suggestion was just made as a counterpoint to Pichu, but I'd totally enjoy it and he'd probably become one of my mains. As it is, I've been playing Pikachu more and more lately in P:M. : D

I still <3 tho.

Shots Fired

That went so well with the gif in your sig that I just burst out laughing, hahahaha.

 

[Rhinevalcke6]

You're honestly setting yourself up for disappointment if you want ANOTHER Pokemon character, and a Joke character at that. They only have 5 more slots (and creating characters takes up a large amount of time), why would they waste their efforts on a character from an already over represented series that's a joke character?

 

[Malion]

Except a solid moveset and core mechanics?

Sounds overrated to me. All you need to be better is a spiky ear.

 

[Fortress]

You're honestly setting yourself up for disappointment if you want ANOTHER Pokemon character, and a Joke character at that. They only have 5 more slots (and creating characters takes up a large amount of time), why would they waste their efforts on a character from an already over represented series that's a joke character?

Some people would argue that representation shouldn't matter if the character can bring something really good to the table, which I'm kind of in between about, to be honest.

But, Pichu is still Pichu. So, still bad.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

That went so well with the gif in your sig that I just burst out laughing, hahahaha.

XD
Jesus, I just looked back at my post to see what you were talking about.
Man, oh man today was great.

 

[yogurtgun1245]

We have around 721 Pokemon in the series now, I don't think 8 reps is enough.

 

[ChronoBound]

People get "angry" when you bring it up because Sakurai did a ton of stupid crap in Brawl the entire point of Project M is to fix said problems. "Sakurai had planned might (keyword: might) have merit in Smash 4 character speculation, but this isn't Smash 4. That's to say it's a stupid argument which doesn't even deserve discussion.

You also get angry when its brought how unpopular Pichu is relative to the rest of the Smash Bros. cast. Dr. Mario was in a similar boat (an extremely divisive veteran), but unlike Pichu, there was a tight rope that was successfully crossed that was able to satisfy all parties in regards to him.

The costume option probably won't work for Pichu since even if they manage to get the hitboxes for him to be the same as Pikachu, and change Pikachu to have Pichu's few advantages (more speed, more power for some moves), the whole point to the character in Smash Bros. was to be purposely terrible and basically utilizing its very small size and high speed to avoid getting hit and grabbing items.

With Pichu, there is an even narrower rope to walk, and even if you fix Pichu from being a purposely bad character, you might also end up alienating those who like Pichu being terrible and him being a character to troll your friends with due to his purposeful terribleness. Even Mewtwo and Roy, kept a lot of their Melee selves in their Project M movesets (Mewtwo keeps most of his moves, while Roy still keeps his middle-sword sweetspot gimmick), with Pichu, suggesting to take away the gimmick of him being purposely bad may take away from Pichu being Pichu.

I am personally neutral on Pichu, but in general with the character there is a lot of potholes. You might also risk Dr. Mario and Young Link fans becoming agitated their characters did not get slots of their own, while less popular Pichu did.

 

[Fortress]

I think the huge difference between Doc and Pichu was the fact that Doc was up there in a lot of Melee tier lists; better than Mario in many regards, on the whole. Pichu, on the other hand, was just at the bottom. Just bad.