New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[arcticfox8]

 

[Arteen]

+1 Isaac
+1 Pichu
+1 Dark Samus
+1 Bowser Jr
+1 Ganondorf/Black Shadow

+0.5 Waluigi

-1 Ridley
-1 Goroh
-1 Krystal
-1 Toon Zelda
-1 Tails
-1 Knuckles
-1 Shadow

Isaac is such a perfect fit, with a variety of unique moves to use (telekinesis, earth magic, plant life etc) that make him stand out from the rest of the roster. The only concern is that he would take a lot of work to implement, but he doesn't need to be made completely from scratch. For general movement and his more basic attacks, he could draw heavily from Link. Pichu would make for a fun experiment, it's easy to implement, and it's the last Melee veteran remaining. I'd love to see Pichu as envisioned by Project M.

Ridley is big and awkward and would be impractical for a mod. Goroh's just boring. Krystal is awful.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I always found it funny that Team Starfox is made of animals a fox would likely eat, a rabbit, a frog, and a pheasant.

 

[arcticfox8]

Can I point something out? Tails has more positive votes than K. Rool, yet K. Rool is higher because he has less hate. So the character with more supporters has no chance while the character with less supporters is almost in the green. This is my issue with the antivote system.

 

[Fortress]

I always found it funny that Team Starfox is made of animals a fox would likely eat, a rabbit, a frog, and a pheasant.

I noticed that, too.

But, I always thought Falco was a Toucan.

Can I point something out? Tails has more positive votes than Sukapon, yet Sukapon is higher because he has less hate. So the character with more supporters has no chance while the character with less supporters is in the green. This is my issue with the antivote system.

Agreed. I don't understand why we need the negative votes, and why we need to know who's not voting for whom. Isn't that apparent in the fact that those characters aren't in a poster's +1 category? I think there should only be a 'maybe' and 'yes' vote. We shouldn't have to see all of the reasons why a character shouldn't get in, as it's implied that person doesn't want them in when they're not voting them up. If that makes sense.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Can I point something out? Tails has more positive votes than Sukapon, yet Sukapon is higher because he has less hate. So the character with more supporters has no chance while the character with less supporters is in the green. This is my issue with the antivote system.

Well, the anti-vote system is in place so that people can point out what they feel is a "bad idea".
The more anti-votes it has, the more likely it's actually a "bad idea", and the more likely the PMBR will get flak for the inclusion of the character in question. Sukapon merely has less upvotes (and anti-votes) because he's a particularly unfamiliar character. On the other hand, Tails is not only more popular, but is also more controversial, which is why he has more of both votes.
While I don't have any distaste for any particular ideas (except that Black Shadow shiz), I think the anti-vote system is necessary.

 

[arcticfox8]

I know Slippy is apparently one of the most annoying vg characters of all time, but I always found him endearing. I've always liked the weaker little brother type characters anyway. If he were put in he could be a weird mix of Spacie and Luigi. And lets be real he's the most loyal member of Team Starfox besides Fox himself.

EDIT:

Well, the anti-vote system is in place so that people can point out what they feel is a "bad idea".
The more anti-votes it has, the more likely it's actually a "bad idea", and the more likely the PMBR will get flak for the inclusion of the character in question. Sukapon merely has less upvotes (and anti-votes) because he's a particularly unfamiliar character. On the other hand, Tails is not only more popular, but is also more controversial, which is why he has more of both votes.
While I don't have any distaste for any particular ideas (except that Black Shadow shiz), I think the anti-vote system is necessary.

I feel like at least there should be a limit to anti-votes like there is a limit to votes, so people will think first before copy-pasting the entire list of character suggestions in the OP that they didn't put in their upvote and halfvote lists.

 

[Xebenkeck]

@Fortress, Falco is based off a Vietenese Pheasant

Spoiler

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I feel like at least there should be a limit to anti-votes like there is a limit to votes, so people will think first before copy-pasting the entire list of character suggestions in the OP that they didn't put in their upvote and halfvote lists.

This is one issue with anti-votes that I will agree with. Some people are kinda selfish and will downvote everyone else in order to give their favorite a fair chance.
I can't help but think someone has pointed this out earlier though.

 

[Anti Guy]

I feel like at least there should be a limit to anti-votes like there is a limit to votes, so people will think first before copy-pasting the entire list of character suggestions in the OP that they didn't put in their upvote and halfvote lists.

And then I just ignore those votes.

 

[l3thargy]

Can I point something out? Tails has more positive votes than Sukapon, yet Sukapon is higher because he has less hate. So the character with more supporters has no chance while the character with less supporters is in the green. This is my issue with the antivote system.

the anti-vote is there to better represent what the fan base would and would not like to see so I don't see your point here, it just seems to me you're salty that the character you want is losing in the polls so you're complaining about the whole system.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Are there any plans to add formal introductions for K. Rool and the Masked Man to the OP? Both have generated a fair amount of interest so far, and call it a hunch, but I'm guessing not all voters are going to read through pages and pages of discussion before making their choices. It's fine if that's not planned, of course, especially since they'll be visible in the poll results anyways. Just thought I'd ask.

 

[Anti Guy]

Are there any plans to add formal introductions for K. Rool and the Masked Man to the OP? Both have generated a fair amount of interest so far, and call it a hunch, but I'm guessing not all voters are going to read through pages and pages of discussion before making their choices. It's fine if that's not planned, of course, especially since they'll be visible in the poll results anyways. Just thought I'd ask.

Yes, when I get a chance to (probably tomorrow), I'll add K. Rool, Masked Man, Tom Nook, Toad, and anyone else significant.

 

[arcticfox8]

the anti-vote is there to better represent what the fan base would and would not like to see so I don't see your point here, it just seems to me you're salty that the character you want is losing in the polls so you're complaining about the whole system.

See my later post on the subject. Its flawed is what I'm getting at, and I only half-voted Tails. I'm just tired of posts like this

Time to vote! This is going to be great and I've been waiting to do this for a while. I'll just say anyone that I didn't mention is obviously a negative vote.

 

[red9rd]

CRAAAAAAACK!!!

Spoiler

 

[Anti Guy]

See my later post on the subject. Its flawed is what I'm getting at, and I only half-voted Tails. I'm just tired of posts like this

Since he failed reading comprehension (where I stated that non-votes are NEUTRAL votes), I won't count those. Anti-votes are specifically for characters you are opposed to.

 

[Chzrm3]

Yes, when I get a chance to (probably tomorrow), I'll add K. Rool, Masked Man, Tom Nook, Toad, and anyone else significant.

Nice! I was just about to post suggesting that the reason K. Rool is so far behind Dixie could be because he wasn't mentioned in the OP and she was. Usually K. Rool dominates these polls, so I was surprised to see so few people voting for him until I realized that.

For the record, I'm madly in love with the idea of Dixie being playable, and I really wouldn't care at all about K. Rool. I'm just pointing this out to be fair to those K. Rool fans, since I know they're just as passionate as I am. =)

 

[Anti Guy]

Nice! I was just about to post suggesting that the reason K. Rool is so far behind Dixie could be because he wasn't mentioned in the OP and she was. Usually K. Rool dominates these polls, so I was surprised to see so few people voting for him until I realized that.

For the record, I'm madly in love with the idea of Dixie being playable, and I really wouldn't care at all about K. Rool. I'm just pointing this out to be fair to those K. Rool fans, since I know they're just as passionate as I am. =)

The main problem with K. Rool that excluded him from the OP is that he's not really easy to make for P:M at all. SSB4 is a completely different story, and I think K. Rool should be in that. But this is P:M and you should always be thinking what would be easy to make on top of if that character is worthy enough to be considered. A lot of people keep getting carried away in this thread and lose sight of one of those two things.

 

[Chzrm3]

The main problem with K. Rool that excluded him from the OP is that he's not really easy to make for P:M at all. SSB4 is a completely different story, and I think K. Rool should be in that. But this is P:M and you should always be thinking what would be easy to make on top of if that character is worthy enough to be considered. A lot of people keep getting carried away in this thread and lose sight of one of those two things.

I guess it depends on how you make him, yeah. I always kind of envisioned him being a clone of Dedede, with much more physical, up close A attacks instead of the long-range tilts and hammer swings that Dedede has. Kind of like a hybrid of Dedede and Bowser I guess. They'd have to get creative with the specials, but he's got the ability to throw out three separate little guys (waddle, the waddle with one eye that shoots lazers, and the spiky guy), so some creative programming could turn those into some K. Rool projectiles, or at the very least make them Klaptraps (and the spiky guy can be a bee! that actually works pretty well, haha).

Then he's got that Jet hammer, which they might be able to turn into his long-range boxing glove, and his side-B might be able to be turned into a Bowser-esque grapple move. I think the Up-B's really solid.

I dunno. K. Rool would be tougher than, say, Dixie, but I think he'd actually be easier than someone like Isaac.

(Look at me, defending K. Rool's chances when I don't even want him! It's my inner DK fanboy I guess : > )

 

[TopTierPichu]

are the results of the vote actually going to be the characters put in this game?

 

[XalchemistX]

Anti-votes are specifically for characters you are opposed to.

How do you know down votes are the the ones we actually oppose, rather than just voting them down to get their character a higher chance to be on top?

I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. It's best to hide the results so we won't be biased while voting. Then release the results when the poll ends.

 

[Xebenkeck]

@TopTierPichu

No.......we aren't the PMBR.

I imagine in their backroom they have a similar thread to this with just as much chatter going on. But we won't get to see the results of THAT until they decide what to do.

They could add 5 more characters, or they could be content with just Mewtwo and Roy or any number inbetween. Either way its ultimatley what they decide to do.

But that won't stop us knuckleheads from discussing it here

 

[Friesnchip]

are the results of the vote actually going to be the characters put in this game?

No, this thread is just to gauge the forums' desired roster additions.

Edit: Yeah, what Xebenkeck said.

 

[Friesnchip]

Sorry, double post...

 

[Chzrm3]

are the results of the vote actually going to be the characters put in this game?

I have a feeling that the PMBR have their own set of favorites, and they're arguing just as passionately about who gets in.

For them, it must be really intense - because they're actually fighting for the characters. XD We've gotten pretty heated here and we're just having some fun/friendly discussions. I can't imagine how intense it is back there.

I like to believe there's one PMBR member who's proudly carrying the torch for Pichu. He writes massive, 10 page essays on why Pichu should be included, and privately toils away trying to prove to the team that it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. And every time he posts, everyone else screams "SHUT UP NERD" and goes back to arguing about Isaac vs. K. Rool.

 

[TopTierPichu]

wow that sucks considering im also an advocate for Pichu's glorified return. I would like masked man because he can play similar to lucas and jump and glide like meta knight

 

[Xebenkeck]

I have a feeling that the PMBR have their own set of favorites, and they're arguing just as passionately about who gets in.

For them, it must be really intense - because they're actually fighting for the characters. XD We've gotten pretty heated here and we're just having some fun/friendly discussions. I can't imagine how intense it is back there.

I like to believe there's one PMBR member who's proudly carrying the torch for Pichu. He writes massive, 10 page essays on why Pichu should be included, and privately toils away trying to prove to the team that it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. And every time he posts, everyone else screams "SHUT UP NERD" and goes back to arguing about Isaac vs. K. Rool.

Oh I can only hope, But I'm sure its not Shadic, he's mentioned lots of times how he hates pichu lol.

 

[red9rd]

Watch them use the remaining spots for the Polygon and Wireframe fighters

 

[Malion]

It astounds me how people can be outright opposed to so many characters. haha maybe I'm just too much of a positive polly.

 

[TopTierPichu]

I feel Pichu is an iconic piece of Smash History, a Brawl mod dedicated to Melee would not be the same without him

 

[red9rd]

or Watch the Pmbr be like "**** it" and break all the rules that were set.

 

[AnOkayDM]

It astounds me how people can be outright opposed to so many characters. haha maybe I'm just too much of a positive polly.

Ugh, I know. I think I literally downvoted two characters, and they're characters I truly despise. It pisses me off to see people who downvote literally everyone they didn't upvote.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

The main problem with K. Rool that excluded him from the OP is that he's not really easy to make for P:M at all. SSB4 is a completely different story, and I think K. Rool should be in that. But this is P:M and you should always be thinking what would be easy to make on top of if that character is worthy enough to be considered. A lot of people keep getting carried away in this thread and lose sight of one of those two things.

Carried away, you say?
Commence K. Rool discussion!

In all seriousness, I hope I'm not defending futile character additions with this, or at least not taking it to an annoying level. I certainly appreciate you putting these latecomers in with the rest of the options in spite of that. I don't really mean this as a sales pitch, just a way to discuss what K. Rool might have and what he might haven't.

Up-B is really similar to the kind of jumps he uses in DKC1. He's also got the crown toss, summoning cannonballs, and his rushing attack from that game. Shooting with the blunderbuss, rocket boosting with the blunderbuss, and I forget what else. Baron K. Roolenstein doesn't leave much to work with, but there's the helicopter pack, I guess. Does he have any DK64 attacks that I'm forgetting?. The main problem I see is that his diverse movepool: A. has a lot of articles B. mostly competes with itself for the same few special moves.
Another point of discussion is how difficult modeling and animation will be. His model might be reasonably difficult, but he is rather...simply shaped. I've been wondering if the golden plate armor or the cape would prove annoying, though.

Any thoughts from anyone else on our favorite Kremling kandidate?

 

[Anti Guy]

Carried away, you say?
Commence K. Rool discussion!

In all seriousness, I hope I'm not defending futile character additions with this, or at least not taking it to an annoying level. I certainly appreciate you putting these latecomers in with the rest of the options in spite of that. I don't really mean this as a sales pitch, just a way to discuss what K. Rool might have and what he might haven't.

Up-B is really similar to the kind of jumps he uses in DKC1. He's also got the crown toss, summoning cannonballs, and his rushing attack from that game. Shooting with the blunderbuss, rocket boosting with the blunderbuss, and I forget what else. Baron K. Roolenstein doesn't leave much to work with, but there's the helicopter pack, I guess. Does he have any DK64 attacks that I'm forgetting?. The main problem I see is that his diverse movepool: A. has a lot of articles B. mostly competes with itself for the same few special moves.
Another point of discussion is how difficult modeling and animation will be. His model might be reasonably difficult, but he is rather...simply shaped. I've been wondering if the golden plate armor or the cape would prove annoying, though.

Any thoughts from anyone else on our favorite Kremling kandidate?

That's exactly it, though. Yes, K. Rool has the crown and blunderbuss and all that. But those are also the problem. Is there any way to get those into the game? From what I understand, it's very hard to replace projectiles. There are currently no moves that resemble shooting a blunderbuss, and there's no way he can pull out cannonballs.

 

[Paradoxium]

I feel Pichu is an iconic piece of Smash History, a Brawl mod dedicated to Melee would not be the same without him

The brawl mod dedicated to melee is doing fine without pichu as it is, and the only thing iconic about him was that he sucked at such a calibur that it was incredible how Sakurai could have over looked him

 

[Malion]

all I know is whoever gets in... no matter who it is they should have a landmaster. Just to piss everyone off.

Pichu in a lighting yellow landmaster? Dat *expletive* be tight.
King K. Rool in kremling landmaster? Pretty sweeeet.
Tails in a blue bomber landmaster? Actually not that far off.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

That's exactly it, though. Yes, K. Rool has the crown and blunderbuss and all that. But those are also the problem. Is there any way to get those into the game? From what I understand, it's very hard to replace projectiles. There are currently no moves that resemble shooting a blunderbuss, and there's no way he can pull out cannonballs.

Yeah, that is exactly it; I'm trying to point out and analyze flaws, not gloss over them. I'd hoped I was being fair about it instead of just blindly supporting one of my favorites, and that finding potential ways around his problems would be preferable to adding a character to the list while ignoring blatant drawbacks.

I thought the limitation to projectiles is that new properties can't be added to them (like homing or maybe having its own hurtboxes or something like that). Changing the animation which causes them to appear is relatively unrelated, so whether something looks like shooting a gun hopefully shouldn't matter (aside from some difficult model work on the gun itself). I can't give you much more apart from Dedede's gordos being the best I can think of to model his ammunition.
This should show off his gordo gun, rocket boost, Dedede-like vacuum ability (a little forced, but eh), and stylish pirate-trenchcoat for an alternate costume decently enough, and all well within the first minute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky6mkDQA2z4
Edit: I like the DKC2 battle, but I can't help but get a little nostalgic for Gangplank Galleon's music...

 

[Xebenkeck]

"Personally I prefer the air"

Was probably the biggest slap in the face that was in Brawl. A close second was Ganon's sword taunt.

 

[Solbliminal]

But is that really a problem? Project M is suppose to be a sequel to Melee. Pichu was in Melee. It figures to say that he'd be in the sequel. Doc was mixed with Mario and put in as an alt, Young Link was only replaced in name, Mewtwo and Roy are both back so the only one still being left out is Pichu. It hardly seems fair to the fans of the character, especially since the PMBR thought it'd be a good idea to tease his inclusion in the April Fools Turbo Mode trailer.

Going by that logic, Pichu evolved into Pikachu.

 

[l3thargy]

Going by that logic, Pichu evolved into Pikachu.

lol why not, doesn't pikachu have pichu's old goggles and knows volt tackle.